WW LXXX: It's About Time!

[skip spence]

Okay, I could easily lynch Agan for her poor taste in Swedish music. Or Eomer, because I'd never trust a man with a kilt (you know that whole underwear situation ). Or Fea, for wearing stilettos. No woman of honest intentions would do that. Or Greenie, for trying to make me fat. But somehow it doesn't seem fair...

So a kind request: could someone please do something suspicious before I get back from work? Okay?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Nerwen - talks about the machine being sabotaged which never occurred to me. Looks like a wolf who knows too much. However last time I played I made her mad and now I'm scared of her so I will refrain from suspecting her for now. Like, for this post.

That is all.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Or Fea, for wearing stilettos. No woman of honest intentions would do that.

I think you have the wrong word, darling. I have never been anything but completely honest about what I intend to do while wearing stilettos. I am very forthright.

Also, as a casual point to me being one of the first posters, you realize that the DL is at the exact time I'm most likely to be curled up in bed in my pajamas, cuddling my lap top every night? It's habitual. By around 8:30, I'm hanging out in bed doing schoolwork or messing around online, and my doggy conks out on the floor next to my bed. So yep, I'll probably be around at DL most of the time.

Agan, darling, I see what you've done there with your list of guilty and innocent. I'm amused. You seem to have left yourself off the list entirely. But then, you already said you were a wolf.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Okay, I could easily lynch Agan for her poor taste in Swedish music.

It was Lommy's fault! Last night I witnessed how her opinion on Army of Lovers changed from "they're horrible!" to "I can't stop watching this video!"

So a kind request: could someone please do something suspicious before I get back from work? Okay?

I'm a wolf rawrrr! Happy?
Seriously though, I really don't like it when people complain about no one acting suspiciously enough. Many people seem to find it more difficult to come up with suspicions when they're wolves themselves (I, however, am not one of those people - I always find suspecting others easy). It's just something I've seen.

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

So yep, I'll probably be around at DL most of the time.

Ahhaa the wolf is giving excuses for being online at deadline! Tsk tsk.

I'm amused. You seem to have left yourself off the list entirely.

I considered listing myself under the Innocent headline but figured my list would appear more objective if I didn't include myself, and because these are serious matters it's best not to play around too much.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Greenie

All right folks - just to be fair I think we could cut the inside jokes.

Why are you rubbing the back my head so evilly!?

Originally Posted by Agan

Shasta - the first to post which is always a sign of wolfishness. Trying to butter Fea up, or alternatively wolfish banter.

Shasta butters you up just by looking at you!

His post about being a smelly armpit pickle is sure to contain secret hints, and I can only add "Yes, pickles smell fantastic, but when it comes to armpits, it depends."

Armpits are ordinary (if shaved).
Pickles are ordinary food items.
My armpit pickle smells pleasant.
Get the hint now?

Originally Posted by Fea

Also, as a casual point to me being one of the first posters, you realize that the DL is at the exact time I'm most likely to be curled up in bed in my pajamas, cuddling my lap top every night? It's habitual. By around 8:30, I'm hanging out in bed doing schoolwork or messing around online, and my doggy conks out on the floor next to my bed. So yep, I'll probably be around at DL most of the time.

That is a rather...exhaustive...explanation if all you're saying is that you will probably be around at the DL most of the time.

Time for my own exhaustive explanation of how I went the wrong way. DL works more perfect than I thought. When our cracked professor gave the GMT time, I added 4 hours, thinking...shoot this is going to mean DL is 5 am for me, looks like somewhat early voting. However, I needed to subtract!

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

I have never been anything but completely honest about what I intend to do while wearing stilettos.

Trying to walk relatively straight and upright? Or perhaps sitting down with the shoes in sight, preferably?

I am very forthright.

Yes, admitting to being a wolf is indeed very forthright, dear. Or did you think that would make us think that you are not?

Originally Posted by Agan

It was Lommy's fault! Last night I witnessed how her opinion on Army of Lovers changed from "they're horrible!" to "I can't stop watching this video!"

Yes, I'm sure you are just an innocent victim of circumstances beyond your control.

I'm a wolf rawrrr! Happy?

Yes. Two down, one to go.


Eomer's vote is interesting, kind of. Did seem like an innocentish reason, not saying the hunch is correct.

Originally Posted by The Elf-warrior

But remember, where there's life there's hope, and good thing we've got vittles.

Who exactly has got... vittles?

I'll go out for a bit soonish but should be back in maybe 4-6 hours!

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Trying to walk relatively straight and upright? Or perhaps sitting down with the shoes in sight, preferably?

Sitting down. Some shoes are made for walking, and that's just what they do, but if you wear stilettos, they'll walk all over you... if you don't sit down. With the shoes in sight. Occasionally one can pull of standing around in a museum or gallery, or perhaps cocktail party, wherein one is not expected to walk a great deal and can concentrate fully on balance and posture.

Yes. Two down, one to go.

Ah, therein lies the rub. Who's the third? (And the first and second?)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

One of those reasons has got to be 'who but a wolf could fit thirty little green grapes in between their jaws!', right?

No?

Okay then.

Moving on.

Greenie has been really the only one to try and get things moving - I probably won't vote for her today. I could easily vote for Lottie, though - she's said next to nothing which is entirely unlike her.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Skip

Yes, admitting to being a wolf is indeed very forthright, dear. Or did you think that would make us think that you are not?

You are thinking too simplistically, my friend. If either of the parties claiming to be wolves are, in fact, wolves, it'd be more like a quadruple-bluff. At least. You see, it's not that saying "I'm a wolf" makes you look innocent because a wolf wouldn't say that. It's more like because everyone knows a wolf might say it as a double-bluff, but then again probably wouldn't, just because everyone knows about double-bluffing. Which once again gives the wolf a reason to say it. Etc, etc.

Mind you, no matter what stage of this infinite regression of bluffing we happen to be at, in the end a player is either a wolf or not.

EDIT:X'd with the fire of my heart.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

She for whom the moon doth shine, what dost thou think of Eomer's vote?

[Pitchwife]

Hmm, that was a hasty vote by Eomer, based on a single post, but that post basically said nothing very substantial in a self-conscious way, so I think I see where he's coming from.

On the other hand, I'm still worrying about those possibly multiple-bluffing "I'm-a-wolf" jokes by Fea and Agan - especially Fea, who seems to think that writing a user manual for stilettos is of paramount importance, compared to the trivial matter of wolf-catching (yes, I know, it's all very much like her - so what?); Agan slightly less, as she has at least bothered to give some half flippant / half serious opinions on the rest of the world.

skip is still walking the line between inside banter and getting on topic game-wise... I probably won't be awake when he comes back, so I hope I'll hear more from him toMorrow.

wilwa is getting more involved and looks OK so far.

No read on Shasta and Nerwen yet. And finally, there's an appalling amount of people dozing under my caribou (sally, Lottie, Boro, TEW - OK, only four, but that's enough). This is some quiet village.

EDIT: x-ed since #36.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Armpits are ordinary (if shaved).
Pickles are ordinary food items.
My armpit pickle smells pleasant.
Get the hint now?

Boro's armpits last time I saw them = not shaved = not ordinary.
And some people find pickles extremely bad. Like Greenie (at least I seem to remember she didn't want to eat one so she gave it to me a few days ago). I think they're good though.
So yes I think I get the hint.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Fea and Agan have both confessed to being wolves, trusting that we'll dismiss that as inside jokes; shame on whoever thinks of signalling to the cobbler, I suppose?

Of course I can't speak for Fea, but what I'm doing (besides having fun) is making things more difficult for the cobbler. If everybody keeps telling they're wolves it will be more difficult for her to spot the real ones. Not that she's too likely to succeed in that, anyway, as she doesn't have a way to contact them in secret, but still.

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Her post seemed the most obviously nice and 'let's get down to business'y - obviously something a wolf could do to look respectable and not overly jokey.

Actually, she's always more or less like that, and that's why I always suspect her. (Usually I turn out to be wrong.) But she's definitely one of the easier suspects...

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

But seriousness than. I think Eomer's vote is pretty good (not that I necessarily agree with it). But usually votes this early in the game are just random or based off some strange meta reasoning, but he actually had a legitimate reason, and I approve.

I don't think it was particularly good-looking because as I said Greenie's style makes her quite easy to suspect, but then I do acknowledge it's only day 1 and he had to vote early.

Though on Day 1s I tend to be more understanding of lack of suspicions (since sometimes not much happens), but Day 2 and on, it's definitely fishy if someone has no suspects.

Exactly. And it's not only the fact that he didn't have suspects but he was also kind of flaunting it - saying "please could you be more suspicious so I have an excuse to suspect you" is always very apologetic, as if he thinks if he's the first to point out he doesn't have suspects, others will not accuse him of it.
However I also came to think it might be the cobbler's hint to the wolves: "Could you do something to help me identify you? Pretty please?"

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

One of those reasons has got to be 'who but a wolf could fit thirty little green grapes in between their jaws!', right?

Now that you mention it, maybe, but I was rather thinking you might not want to hurt Peter Jackson (unless he wanted it).

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Agan

I don't really think we can avoid inside jokes. I mean, the whole Barrow-Downs is full of them, and naturally WWers have even more. Now it just happens that lots of people met each other in the summer which led to more jokes for the time being. I made inside jokes when I commented on you & skip's playing styles before you had even posted, only those are jokes everyone that has been playing WW potentially knows. And if there had been a newbie playing, I wouldn't have let it stop me doing it.

Of course we can't completely avoid inside jokes, they are bound to come up and it isn't a problem if they do, but I just think there were a little too many of them around and it wasn't really fair anymore.

Originally Posted by Wilwa

But seriousness than. I think Eomer's vote is pretty good (not that I necessarily agree with it). But usually votes this early in the game are just random or based off some strange meta reasoning, but he actually had a legitimate reason, and I approve.

Agreed, his vote looks reasonable.

Originally Posted by Agan, about Eomer's vote

I don't think it was particularly good-looking because as I said Greenie's style makes her quite easy to suspect, but then I do acknowledge it's only day 1 and he had to vote early.

Really? Generally I tend to get Night-killed for not being suspected by anyone at all. And seriously, I've never heard anyone say my style makes me an easy suspect. Therefore I'm not sure I buy your argument, either.

Originally Posted by Shasta

Greenie has been really the only one to try and get things moving - I probably won't vote for her today. I could easily vote for Lottie, though - she's said next to nothing which is entirely unlike her.

Ah, I disagree about both myself and Lottie. My effort at giving the village a nudge forwards was abysmal; and as for Lottie, well she admittedly hasn't said much on topic but who had, at the point when she posted? Why single her out? Is it that unusual for her to banter super early on Day 1 when nothing has really happened yet?

Just in general, then. I agree with Wilwa a lot and disagree with Agan a lot. Old news? Ploughing on, then - Pitch's post made me chuckle aloud at my screen, but apart from summarising everyone else's more or less unfruitful contributions to the game it didn't really say much. Eomer looks pretty innocentish. My hunch would say the same about Shasta, but then again I've long ago lost count of the times a Shastawolf has fooled me completely and I have sworn never to trust him again..

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Agreed, his vote looks reasonable.

Wait, he votes for you and you call it reasonable?

Really? Generally I tend to get Night-killed for not being suspected by anyone at all.

It's ages since I've played actively but last time I participated in a game, Lottie was after you all the time. Plus I'm always suspicious of you. But now that you said it I do remember your getting night-killed pretty often, too. It's just that because you're one of my most common suspects, I automatically assume everyone else finds you fishy as well, but because I'm wrong about you most of the time I get suspicious when others suspect you. If you know what I mean.

Ah, I disagree about both myself and Lottie.

Me too. I am of the opinion my contributions were much more substantial than Greenie's.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Of course I can't speak for Fea, but what I'm doing (besides having fun) is making things more difficult for the cobbler. If everybody keeps telling they're wolves it will be more difficult for her to spot the real ones. Not that she's too likely to succeed in that, anyway, as she doesn't have a way to contact them in secret, but still.

Quite an interesting strategy, because from your first post I was going to ask if your putting in an application for cobblery. I didn't think about doing that.

In Fea's case, impossible to tell. Because just when I have the fortitude to declare, yep this time she's an ordo who's just attempting to entertain and have some fun, she winds up a wolf. In your case, you are looking innocent in comparison to Fea's "I have no clue." Also, you clearly want to take the lead in this game, which makes me smile, because if innocent this is good news for us, if a wolf, I will catch you slip soon enough and you know it.

My computer wants to go into update and run virus scan mode, it always starts up at around this time. It's going along very sluggishly, so for now will have to go into a sketchy, unlit corner, until it finishes.

Edit: crossed with Pitch and Greenie

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Agan

Of course I can't speak for Fea, but what I'm doing (besides having fun) is making things more difficult for the cobbler. If everybody keeps telling they're wolves it will be more difficult for her to spot the real ones. Not that she's too likely to succeed in that, anyway, as she doesn't have a way to contact them in secret, but still.

I see. Next thing you're probably going to suggest we all confess to be wolves and lynch those who don't, right?
I'm not sure I'm convinced by that explanation - sorry, but I've become a little paranoid about that kind of over-obvious jokes; you can blame our resident expert on multiple bluffing (aka Nerwen) for that (*cough Yay!Go wolves! cough*).

Originally Posted by Greenie

Ah, I disagree about both myself and Lottie. My effort at giving the village a nudge forwards was abysmal; and as for Lottie, well she admittedly hasn't said much on topic but who had, at the point when she posted? Why single her out? Is it that unusual for her to banter super early on Day 1 when nothing has really happened yet?

No, that's not at all unusual, but in the past she's quite often actively nudged the game out of the banter phase into some serious discussion, hence my comment about her being untypically non-pot-stirring this time. However, she said on the Admin thread that she'd have limited time for participation, so that's nowhere near voteworthy for me.

(x-ed since #40)

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

On the other hand, I'm still worrying about those possibly multiple-bluffing "I'm-a-wolf" jokes by Fea and Agan

Either we're wolves or we aren't - there's a 50-50 chance!

This is some quiet village.

Yes but that was to be expected - after all we're only 13. Of course it's sometimes nice to play in a big and noisy village, but games this small are also really refreshing (and besides this is much better for my schedule, not the least because chances are good enough I'll be dead before I have to start playing a host).

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Quite an interesting strategy, because from your first post I was going to ask if your putting in an application for cobblery. I didn't think about doing that.

I'm so clever.

Also, you clearly want to take the lead in this game, which makes me smile, because if innocent this is good news for us, if a wolf, I will catch you slip soon enough and you know it.

No you won't! Whoops I mean...

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Just to make sure you know - the "I'm-a-wolf" jokes are another inside joke.

If it is, it should be one that most WWers share. Yes, it happened when we played real life werewolf, but it wasn't really anything new or unheard of. (However my apology for not showing up last night was a Geneva-related joke - one of the wolves apparently misread their role so there were only two of them.)

Yes, I do. He gave reasons for his vote that looked sound from his perspective.

When I'm innocent, I always get wary of people who suspect me. Why? Because I know for sure they're suspecting an innocent. It's all the information I have so it's all I can base my own thoughts and suspicions on. You have to start from somewhere, and it's easier to use the things you actually know as a basis.

I'm not too worried about Fea at the moment (I'll start paying closer attention to her when she starts paying closer attention to the game, that is on day 2). I'm slightly concerned about skip and Eomer, but I'd rather wait and see (at least a few hours ) because my points against them aren't very big. I'm torn about Greenie but that's nothing unusual. And I'd like to see sally and EW post more. The rest of you haven't really left an impression.

Tea-time!

[Aganzir]

So a kind request: could someone please do something suspicious before I get back from work? Okay?

I already talked about this, but I think it would be quite a convenient hint from the cobbler to the wolves.

On day 1, he votes for EW who had made one post so far, saying the timing and phrasing of the post looked sinister.

There's something potentially euphemistic about that phrase. Possibly veiled wolfish banter. Only one way to find out

I know I'm not the best person to talk about day 1 voting, but I think there's a difference between voting more or less randomly and voting for somebody who has only made one IC post & trying to give actual reasons for the vote. The vote makes skip almost certainly not a wolf (it would be quite a bold move to vote for a fellow like that), but I think it looks much more sinister than EW's first post. Poor skip if he's the cobbler, it must have been horrible for him to start a bandwagon against a wolf and have to worry about the wolves attacking him after it...

His 124 is an analysis on day 1's voting, and he seems rather careful not to have too strong opinions on anybody. He semi-defends Greenie and flip-flops on Fea (questioning her lack of mentioning self-defense when she voted for EW). His conclusion is that wilwa and sally look more suspicious for defending EW. Quite understandable but I can but disagree with him - if they were wolves, would they really have tried to stop him getting lynched?

Then there's some theoretical stuff about the EW lynch, and he attempts to explain some comments of his that didn't really make sense. He's been kind of sloppy with the stuff he says, anyway, being often quite ambiguous. I still don't know what he meant when he said he doesn't trust Eomer in any way.

On day 2, he considers voting Pitch (to introduce a new candidate besides Lottie, wilwa and sally), wilwa or sally. He says I'm clearly evil but adds he isn't sure my role in this game is evil. That's a weird comment, it could be put down on flattery (he knows how I like being evil) but there's also something tentative about it, as if he was trying to drop a hint to me... Kind of acknowledging "I think you're evil but let's keep it a secret between the two of us".

He jumps on Eomer's point about Lottie being quiet, pointing out that she's really different from the previous time he played with her. I might add that last (and only) time I played with Lottie she was all over the place and really confident - and she was a sheriff who could share her opinions with her fellow sheriff. Skip played in that game. I expect a player's ordo (or alone working gifted) behaviour to be the norm, and assume Lottie isn't so certain about people's roles in every game she plays... So it seems skip is accusing her of "being normal", if you know what I mean.

Then he votes for wilwa, saying he feels bad about jumping on a bandwagon but wants to "trust his original impression". So, what was this original impression? And what the heck is this comment about?

Good night and may a lucky star shine on us!

ps. you know who I mean by us!

On to day 3... His reaction to my vote for him is weird if he's the cobbler, arguing there's no sense in voting for the cobbler because she can be both harmful and useful to the wolves. If he's the cobbler, one would expect he actually wants to get lynched. Although hmm, arguing so doesn't really tell anything about his role because if he consented to die without a fight, it would be too obvious he was the cobbler and there are probably still some people around who think killing the cobbler is far from being a priority.

It might...

Again. What?
He adds it's much more important for the wolves not to kill the cobbler than it is for the villagers to find her. Trying to drop hints to the wolves again: "Hey it's important you guys don't kill me!"?

He suggests there were no wolves in the wilwagon because it would've been convenient for the wolves just to sit back without getting their hands dirty. Nerwen, Greenie and skip himself voted for her. By then, his pattern of voting the same way as Greenie had already come into being. Also, he and Nerwen had had the short exchange about keeping the cobbler alive (see above). It's possible he thought he had hit both the remaining wolves... Because it really seems like a stretch to say the wolves would behave in a certain way in a certain situation. Way too simple. Okay, we already know Greenie was innocent, and I feel rather good about Nerwen too, but the way skip put forth his theory really looks like he had a hidden agenda.
He analyses the votes that came after his vote for wilwa but doesn't reach any definite conclusions: everything could go either this way or that. He ends up following Greenie's example and votes for sally.

Today he opposes lynching the cobbler. Yes, of course it's better if we catch a wolf, but even the cobbler is enough, and if we have a strong hunch about the cobbler, I think we should go for it (surprise anybody?).

2) You don't know I'm the cobbler

Is this supposed to mean "You don't know that I'm the cobbler" or "You don't know if I'm the cobbler"?
Plus what he said to Nerwen. He looks like the cobbler who thinks he's found a wolf and tries to signal to her.

Seriously though, don't lynch me, I'd do you no good. And I tell you this much: I wouldn't lynch you.

no time for this cobbler-bickering I'm afraid. Not that I'm overly interested in it either

If you're innocent, you should try to convince me it's a bad idea to lynch you instead of just ignoring me. Seriously.

I'm going to have a break now but will check in every now and then. I seriously consider voting for skip spence at this point, unless I get a better idea.