Werewolf LXXXI: Under the Misty Mountains

[Eönwë]

So phantom, why didn't you vote?

And saying "in order to allow Lottie to be lynched" is not a satisfactory answer. If you are an Orc and truly believed her to be an Elf, it would've made sense to vote her as well (though it might have looked as though you were an Elf just attaching yourself to her death which was already happening, but if you're an Orc then that shouldn't matter because it's more important to lynch Elves than save yourself from possible future accusations). And the other option would be to vote someone else, which would either be a throwaway vote (Which would look suspicious), or could take someone else down too (Which could also look suspicious, as though you want to take an innocent down as well as one of your fellows, if you were an Elf.)

Anyway, my point is that whatever you would've voted would've most likely been criticised or at least questioned in some way, but not voting at all is even worse, because it makes it look as if you don't want to do anything objectionable. It even looks- dare I say it- "careful".

So why choose to vote for no-one when as an innocent Orc it would've been better to vote for who you found suspicious (or at least attempt to get someone lynched)?


I actually suspect that if the phantom does have a special role, he's the Undecided Orc who decided to leave his record clean yesterDay so that he could choose without implications in the Night. And anyway, he's been trying to prove that he's innocent since the beginning, which would be beneficial to have the rest of us believe whatever role he chose to take.


Hm... this musing seems to have ended up a bit longer than expected, but still, "I thought it prudent to leave the lynch the way it was" is no excuse to just purposefully not commit yourself to a vote when you were chosen as a carrier of votes.


edit: x-ed with Moddess Feanorc. What's happening in this game?

[satansaloser2005]

Fea:

I'm laughing so hard I'm crying. Or crying so hard I'm laughing. Whatever.


I need to grab some early grub and poke at the thread a bit. Back soon.

[A Little Green]

All right. I need to vote and then give the internet over to Lommie. I really like the idea of voting some enigmas for reps toDay, and this fellow is certainly one (while being also an intelligent and relatively active player), so I'm following Runne's lead on this one:

++ Steve for rep

I'm still suspicious of Sally - I totally get the argument for her innocence, but her every post screams elf. I'm quite convinced now that Shasticle is innocent. I'm also liking Rune and if not quite liking then at least more or less finding phantom innocent. It's Day 2 and I'm still not suspecting Nog (!!!), wonder if that's because he's actually an elf this time!

Also, what's this with all these modfires?


EDIT: x-ed with Noggins

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I'm still suspicious of Sally - I totally get the argument for her innocence, but her every post screams elf.

Welcome to the club!

It's Day 2 and I'm still not suspecting Nog , wonder if that's because he's actually an elf this time! (!!!)

I could actually return the amazement... and the implications.

[Nogrod]

++Legate for representative

Here're the votes thus far for representatives.

Nerwen for Shasta (1)
Rune for Steve
Greenie for Steve (2)
Nogrod for Legate (1)

I think more or less the same principles should apply toDay as on D1 - let's not make a kalif or czar of anyone but let's aim for a large number of representatives with more or less similar powers. And let's try to balance between those we feel good or okay about and those we'd love to see more of, thus trying to maximise information on people we can't form an opinion on and the possibility of getting an elf lynched instead of an orc.

I'll (hopefully) be around a bit more tomorrow. Let's see a pack of representatives emerging from the voting!

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Sally

Also, your reasoning, it fails. Lottie didn't defend herself, she defended Phantom. And I....I wasn't even here. You knew this. Yet you still say that you preferred me, someone who wasn't here to say anything on her behalf, to someone who did have the chance and didn't say anything particularly helpful?

I find it very interesting that you're trying to make you look bad for suspecting you even through your absence, yet you haven't mentioned anyone who's suspected Glirdan, even though he was arguably around less than you before his untimely demise.

Originally Posted by Sally

What if I'm the seer? What if you had gotten your wish, and I would have been killed yesterDay rather than Lottie? Would you be happy about testing your suspicions then? I don't think so.

What if the sky turns green and pigs start flying? What if there's no real purpose to this accusation other than the fact that it looks like you're accusing? But to answer anyway - you aren't the Seer. You wouldn't have been so irresponsible yesterday if you were.

Originally Posted by Sally

For those who don't have time to read Shasta's list in full....

Innocent: Anyone who agrees with him
Undecided: People who haven't specifically agreed/disagreed with him....yet
Guilty: People who don't buy all his rubbish

Seriously, he even says that's his reasoning for who he trusts. Read the post.

For those who don't have time to read this post, this is just more Sally taking everything I say out of context as per usual in an attempt to make herself look better. Folwren suspected both you and Lottie yesterday, I believe, and was correct on Lottie, which is clearly what I meant, so this -

Originally Posted by Sally

Foley seems correct? How would you know if her suspicions are correct unless you know everyone's roles?

- is just silly.

Originally Posted by Phantom

Why?! It's exactly what Ordo-Phantom is ALWAYS hoping for! If I get Night-killed when there are gifteds still around I'm able to laugh and say with pride, "Ha! You killed the wrong person! Fooled you!"

Call me crazy, but dying isn't high on ANYONE'S wishlist. Otherwise they wouldn't have signed up for the game in the first place.

Originally Posted by Phantom

My reference of you to a previous game was regarding an issue of overarching playing philosophy (the randomness of Day 1s). Core Werewolf beliefs are less likely to change game to game.

My point to Nerwen about other reveals in other games not mattering was regarding an issue of precise timing and persons involved. My point was that in this village at this time with this set of villagers there was zero chance of a counter-reveal.

If every single villager was a carbon copy of you, maybe. Let me repeat - you are not telepathic. You are not in everyone's heads. You cannot speak for everyone and the fact that you're trying to is insufferably arrogant (which you haven't actually been for a while).

Originally Posted by Phantom

How can you agree with this when I have so completely trashed the notion? How does my bluff not make sense as an innocent?
FACTS:
1) I've done this exact thing multiple times as an innocent.
2) I did so at a time in which I was clearly not trying to influence the vote.
3) There was no negative risk whatsoever.

1) That does not preclude you from doing it as a baddie.
2) So?
3) Except for... the part where... there totally... was?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

phantom's actions just cry for the seer to dream of him. And looking at the mess he has managed to make - two Days more or less talking only about him - would make the seer more or less irresponsible if s/he didn't dream of him and check him.

See my point re: the Seer not checking confirmed liars. I don't see why you're so intent on pushing the thought that Phantom was Seer-dreamed (and you're also trying to say that he was dreamt innocent, as far as I can tell).

Originally Posted by Eonwe

I actually suspect that if the phantom does have a special role, he's the Undecided Orc who decided to leave his record clean yesterDay so that he could choose without implications in the Night. And anyway, he's been trying to prove that he's innocent since the beginning, which would be beneficial to have the rest of us believe whatever role he chose to take.

I actually like this theory and think it's plausible.

Originally Posted by Inzil

Shasta- It's not so much what he's said; just that he seems very aggressive early on.

What's your point? Why shouldn't I be aggressive? Answer me that.

[Eönwë]

Thank you those who have voted for me so far. Vote me for a change, for a new dawn... er... yeah. Anyway, I seem to have got something that's made the whole back of my palate swell up. So we'll see how I am tomorrow, and hopefully I'll be able to post more then.


As for who I want to vote as rep, I'm thinking either Legate or Inzil. Or maybe even Sally, just to see what she'd do. *Thinks* Well, maybe not.

Anyway, of the two above, since he already has a vote, I think I'll cement

++Legate

as a representative.