Werewolf LXXXI: Under the Misty Mountains

[the phantom]

For Rep-

++ Legate

REP VOTING:

Nerwen for Shasta
Rune for Steve
Green for Steve (2)
Nog for Legate
Steve for Legate (2)
Lommy for Nog
Inzil for Shasta (2)
Wilwa for Foley
Legate for Foley (2)
Shasta for Nerwen
Sally for Nog (2)
Phantom for Legate (3)

THE REPS:
Steve
Legate (3)
Shasta
Foley
Nog

DID NOT VOTE:
Kath
Mira
Celuien
Foley

[the phantom]

Okay. That's it for now. Things to do.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Your reps are:

Steve (2)
Legate (3)
Shasta (2)
Foley (2)
Nog (2)

[Nerwen]

Lottie, Sally and phantom– the votes

I'm just looking at the early part of Day One, up until phantom got his first two rep votes. Apologies for the length of this, but I think it's important to quote many of these posts in full.


#3. Banter from Lottie.


#4.Sally votes phantom for rep in her first post– rest is banter.


#5.

Originally Posted by Lottie

That's a lot of red text, Sallycake. Written in blood, per'aps?

#6. Zil queries it.


#7.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Lottie and Inzil- why have you not voted me for representative yet?

Nice to see at least Sally knows how to do this thing properly.

#8.

Originally Posted by Sally

Only if you got careless last Night, my dear Lottiepop.

Well, if he's good, I'll trust his judgement (for toDay, anyway). If he's evil, I trust him to not be stupid enough to do something like lynch the seer on Day One. It's a win-win from my perspective, as he either is good and tries to do something helpful or he's evil and isn't dumb enough to do something horribly destructive....yet.

EDIT: x'd with our beloved shadow itself....or, as I call it, BS

#9. (Response to Sally)

Originally Posted by Lottie

This makes sense, and looks rather innocent of you, but I'm going be around, so Phantom, no vote for you.

Note this– originally Lottie was not planning to vote phantom. What changed her mind?


#10.

Originally Posted by phantom

To be perfectly frank, with sides as they are (only one gifted goodie) I would as a baddie most certainly try to off the Seer with a Day 1 lynch. It'd totally be worth it, and I'm sure I could disguise my intentions well enough to get away with it. I'm just daring and awesome like that.

Ah, but lucky for most of you I am not a baddie. Or, erm, I should say that I am a baddie, seeing as the enemies in this community are good guys. What do you folks think- should we reverse our terms for the sake of accuracy? It's rather weird to refer to the species that exists to kill and rape as the "good" side.

And Lottie, really, there is no need to delay. Every last villager is going to vote me as representative today, as it would entertain the mods as well as be historic and funny. As a matter of fact, it wouldn't surprise me if I received all the rep votes every day of the contest. If the Sons win then all the orcs can say, "That blasted Phantom didn't vote well and lost it for us! Let's make fun of him!" And that would be great fun, of course. Or if the Sons lose then all the orcs can say, "Ha- I chose my rep well, didn't I?" And that would be fun as well.

Note: Compare the text I've bolded in that post to this:

Originally Posted by The narration– description of the OoUA

As such, this latter orc watched every other little goblin tremble with fear of the legendary Sons of Elrond and their minions, and thought a little guiltily that maybe they all deserved whatever they got.

#11. (Response to phantom).

Originally Posted by Me

Ya hoi! What's this, lads? An Elf-friend in our midst?

#12.

Originally Posted by Sally

I'll make everyone cookies if this happens. (Assuming Phantom pays the postage to mail them, of course, 'cause Sally is poor.)

And actually, sir, you do have a point. Stupidly, I'd looked over the rules and roles and then promptly forgotten them. So yes, you would do that, but you'd at least be classy about it, so you're still worth the vote.

Note: If Lottie and Sally were fellows, I think Lottie could have taken this post as a cue: "Yeah, go ahead and vote him!"


#13. Sally comments on narration: banter.


#14. (Response to phantom at #10– same post quoted by Sally)

Originally Posted by Lottie

Or, of course, you turn out to be evil and utterly destroy us all. And then we can all go "oh, that Phantom!" and we'd all be having a right good time!

#15. (Response to Sally at #15.)

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Now, this is what I don't understand, my lass: why do you think one of these filthy Elves or their sneaking friends wouldn't want to murder our Seer first chance they get, no matter how the rules work exactly? Because they'll give 'emselves away? Nah! There's four of 'em, remember?

#16. Long IC post by Boro. Disputes the phantom's claim that we should view the Elves as the good guys.


#17.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Come now, Boro- what's with all the useless justification?

Face it- we orcs are evil. We were created for it. We can't be punished for the sins of our fathers? You know good and well that we'd commit those same sins if given the chance. If everyone keeps trying to paint Elrond's sons as the baddies here I'm going to start being deliberately unhelpful in disgust.

We orcs are the vicious and cruel baddies, and we're going to kill Elrond's sons and their helpers, NOT out of some sort of misplaced sense of justification, but because it's what we do, and we enjoy it!! We're going to capture them, and hurt them, and deliver their bodies one piece at a time back to their father, and their grandmother in Lorien. I say we work on plans to use them to draw her out of her woods. Heh heh heh... Oh the things we would do to that elf-queen.

PS If you haven't voted me as your representative yet, please do so. Let's make history.

Note again the bolded text. Isn't it rather likely that Lottielf interpreted this as an offer of support from the Unknown Orc?


#18.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Well no, but I would have a good time, so it all balances out, yes? So yeah, um, vote for me. Vote for me now.

Need a second opinion? Let's ask Emperor Palpatine-

Emperor Palpatine: "Do it!"

#19.

Originally Posted by Lottie

I'm honestly considering it...I won't be able to get online until an hour before DL, and I'll probably not have much time to catch up, much less form opinions, and it is Day 1, after all...you know what, fine.

++The Puddintom for Representative

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So. Lottielf (see #9) seems to have begun the Day with no intention of following Sally's vote. She changes her mind only after heavy urging from the phantom (see everything), apparently supported by Sally (see #12).

I think it not unlikely one of these two is Lottie's fellow. My guess is that it might be Sally, and that Lottie, and perhaps Sally as well, took phantom's post at #10 as a pledge of loyalty from the Unknown Orc. Then perhaps Lottie took Sally's post at #12 as a signal that it was OK to vote phantom. (Note that in each case it could have been a misinterpretation– that doesn't matter.)

That is all speculation, of course– I could be completely out in all this. The point I am making is that Lottie and Sally's voting patterns are not the massive obstacle to a Sallyelf theory that they've been taken as.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by the phantom

I checked the admin thread, and there Foley says she won't be here at all today and only for the last couple hours tomorrow. Well well- I wonder what she'll say to being made a Rep under her circumstances.

Crap, indeed, actually now I see that I have read it, should've remembered that. Well, I hope she's around at least a bit still...

We have a bit fewer Representatives now, which is a pity, on the other hand, the numbers might possibly get thinner as the village gets smaller - which can be dangerous as well.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Okay, I've been thinking, and besides giving Nog a second vote or giving Sally a try, I'm considering giving Wilwa a second chance to prove herself. Anyone else up for that?

I just started to think - as I was reading through these - that now actually it will be a time to start looking for possible reps lifting SoE to Rep positions toDay. Of course, we know very little, but let me just remark to this now. This raised my attention this time, as Wilwa's record is somewhat suspicious from my pov (see above), and of course in combination with phantom, who I think even as a SoE would be bold enough to vote his fellows for Reps rather openly, this might be a way of "circulating SoE among the Reps" - i.e. one day tp is there, the other day it's him voting wilwa, basically making sure there's at least somebody every Day. Same could go even for phantom-sally if sally is a SoE after all, there of course might be more to it then basic "repayment for what you did for me yesterday". Nonetheless, phantom in the end didn't vote them, but only because there wasn't anymore the option for him. But let me say this even generally: if there is some "circulation of Reps" in the future (A votes B, B votes C, C votes A or something like that), especially on the later Days when the village is smaller, then that should definitely be noted.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I think it not unlikely one of these two is Lottie's fellow. My guess is that it might be Sally, and that Lottie, and perhaps Sally as well, took phantom's post at #10 as a pledge of loyalty from the Unknown Orc. Then perhaps Lottie took Sally's post at #12 as a signal that it was OK to vote phantom. (Note that in each case it could have been a misinterpretation– that doesn't matter.)

That is all speculation, of course– I could be completely out in all this. The point I am making is that Lottie and Sally's voting patterns are not the massive obstacle to a Sallyelf theory that they've been taken as.

This "review" was actually quite good and helped me to once again think of the situation there better. I must say that Nerwen is right here that indeed the double-vote from both sally and Lottie is not so improbable to have been from two SoE. Still, just the sort of general, well, perhaps probability, makes it easier for me to imagine sally as innocent. Also the chance of Lottie seeing a phUndecidedOrc here - still, we cannot determine for sure whether even in such a case, it really was a signal, or if Lottie really reacted just based on that. To me, at least, interpretating this as "signal" sounds rather farfetched - but then again, Nerwen thinks so and I am not Lottie, and maybe she might have thought similarly to Nerwen? Well, another of many points to consider in relation to, sigh, the phantom (I would like some time to get some points to consider about somebody else!).

It would have been perhaps good to likewise analyse Mira's relation to the whole subject, as the last phantom-voter, but actually, she hasn't been around so much now, has she? Actually, there were quite many people who were not so active during the first half of toDay - I would like to see them further, if it's possible. People like Kath, or Celuien (would really like to look at her now that I have considered her votes)...

Generally, a few thoughts on people after this: considering all I said now, it once again shifts my view of tp even a bit more to the innocent side - or, at most, thinking (if Nerwen's interpretation was correct) that tp could be the undecided orc, if not innocent (basically, not Lottie's fellow, that was the point). I am still thinking quite good of Nerwen, although of course the whole post could have been made to further frame innocent sally or on the other hand, make us think Lottie and phantom are not fellows. Considering how Nerwen and tp have been upon each other, though, it would be curious to find them fellow Wolves - on the other hand, perhaps in circumstances we have, especially if you do not need to become a Rep yourself, you can go into large-scale fights with your packmate and still not worry about it, as long as you don't get into the position where you should vote for them.

I am quite happy with the Reps we have, especially Steve I still trust quite a lot, Folwren (if she is around) also seemed okay. I actually haven't focused on shasta much this far, perhaps this is a good time and good chance to start. Nog is nice choice too, although I don't have particular opinions on him in this game, but then again, I think if I had, it would have meant that I found something suspicious about him, which I did not.

Off for a while, will be back in several hours. Looking forward to see some posts... May The Phorc Not Be Among Them in excessive amount.

[A Little Green]

I'm pretty happy with our reps. All of them, in fact. I'm pretty sure Shasta and Foley are innocent, and Nog, Steve and Legate are all players I'm inclined to find more innocentish than not but that I'd love to get a better feel of. Looking forwards to seeing what they will do! I'm feeling optimistic right now.

Originally Posted by Noggins

Let's see a pack of representatives emerging from the voting!

What a choice of words..

Originally Posted by Lommie

Wilwa seems fishy but possibly in an innocent way

Eh? How can you be fishy in an innocent way?

Nerwen's post about Sally, Lottie and phantom is very interesting. Certainly doesn't make me feel better about Sally.

[A Little Green]

Is there anyone around? I wouldn't mind a chat.

[Kath]

I'm sorry. I was fully intending to vote toDay but I thought it was by 7pm (my time) today that we had to vote for Reps. 48 hour Days are complicated! Anyway I'll get reading and try to come up with something useful.

I've skimmed the last couple of pages and to answer, I think it was phantom, I wouldn't have voted sally for Rep. Well, I don't know. I certainly wouldn't want you BOTH as Reps - one or the other maybe. I would have gone for Lommy as I think she did well yesterDay ... or maybe Legate as he seems to be pretty involved and sounds innocent to me. Nerwen as well possibly, her nitpicky fighting with phantom suggests innocence to me - she's often a little more blase as a wolf (Elf, whatever). As to the idea of making quieter players Reps to try and draw them out - fine if they're quiet because they're lurkers, not so fine if they're quiet because they're just plain not around as you may well end up with votes getting lost.

Off to read. Will probably make that list of opinions phantom asked for.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Nerwen's post about Sally, Lottie and phantom is very interesting. Certainly doesn't make me feel better about Sally.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Also the chance of Lottie seeing a phUndecidedOrc here - still, we cannot determine for sure whether even in such a case, it really was a signal, or if Lottie really reacted just based on that. To me, at least, interpretating this as "signal" sounds rather farfetched - but then again, Nerwen thinks so and I am not Lottie, and maybe she might have thought similarly to Nerwen? Well, another of many points to consider in relation to, sigh, the phantom (I would like some time to get some points to consider about somebody else!).

I wouldn't want to depend too much on my own reasoning there, either to discount phantom as an SoE or show Sally must be one– as I said, it's just speculation. However, Lottie's "Legate-180" on phantom is odd enough that it's worth trying to think of an explanation. One thing that stands out is that Lottie's vote for phantom was probably not something pre-arranged during the Night– so we shouldn't argue from the assumption that it was, as some I think have been doing. (That's not absolutely certain, though– her reluctance could have been staged, of course.)

Originally Posted by Legate

It would have been perhaps good to likewise analyse Mira's relation to the whole subject, as the last phantom-voter, but actually, she hasn't been around so much now, has she?

Has she been around at all since her original vote?

EDIT:X'd with Kath; added comment.