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10-07-2010, 03:00 PM
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#121 | ||
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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Quote:
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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10-07-2010, 03:13 PM
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#122 | ||
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Wight of the Old Forest
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall
Posts: 3,329
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Yep, go Ranger! And ouch for the lynch.
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Speaking of hints, I've got a question for skip: Quote:
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Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI |
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10-07-2010, 03:27 PM
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#123 | ||||||||
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Laconic Loreman
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 7,521
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Quote:
Post 10. Quote:
However same post... Quote:
His next few posts one is a joke to me about a prior game and then clarifying the hunter role with Wilwa. And entirely agreeing with Nerwen (disagreeing with Legate) about the cobbler business. Nothing seems seer hinty to me. Post 31. Quote:
Post 33. Quote:
Post 46. Quote:
Although the Lottie dream doesn't seem all that probable because Shasta seemed more annoyed that she was suspecting him. Doesn't look much like a dream for Lottie. Post 58. He quotes a long post from Pitch only to say... Quote:
Post 60. Quote:
Edit: crossed with Pitch. But dinner time for me shall be back late late tonight.
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Fenris Penguin
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10-07-2010, 03:28 PM
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#124 |
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shadow of a doubt
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Back on the streets
Posts: 1,125
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Oh dear. Has the Power of the Lord of Waters withdrawn from the Great River that flows beside this accursed isle at last? We have slain the one who could've been most useful for all of us!
But onwards, forwards! I gotta sleep now but two things I leave for you to discuss if you will. Firstly, the reason I voted Shasta was not so much his behaviour but rather Lottie's very flimsy accusation. It was so off I actually felt that she might've known something we did not. I felt that there was a distinct possibility that she was the Seer and that she dreamt of a Shasta-wolf, and as his subsequent reaction did not console me that was the best I could come up with at that point. A mistake, obviously. But Lottie, I think you should explain to us again why you found Shasta suspicious. Another thing. I suppose that had Shasta dreamed an innocent the first Night we'd find no clues as to who that was. But if he did dream a wolf, wouldn't he have left something for us should he chance to die? And Shasta's main suspect seem to have been Pitch. Could he have dreamed of him? Aurë entuluva! Edit: Xed with a few people including Pitch whose question I've answered.
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"You can always come back, but you can't come back all the way" ~ Bob Dylan |
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10-07-2010, 03:41 PM
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#125 |
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Flame of the Ainulindalë
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves
Posts: 9,308
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It seems we're getting into this old discussion I haven't seen in a long time. So what is the right thing to do when the vote is more or less clear? Do you go with whom you suspect the most plain and simple whatever the result is going to be ("not being a hypocrite" even if it means that someone whom you think is more innocent than others facing the gallows in real terms will die - but you keep your own posture of integrity) or do you choose from those who are near the chopping block and pick the one you're most suspicious of - even if it isn't your number one suspect - or try to drive the lynch to save the one you think the most innocent of the probable lynchees?
Or, which is even better a question: who would like to pose as someone who is right and self-assuredly denying to take part in the lynching of an innocent? Well, only those who know the one that is going to be lynched in fact is an innocent! I do suspect Boro heavily on his last minute declaration of moral highground - and to a slightly lesser degree also Steve (what Legate said him seemingly being in a hurry). Ozban I'm not so sure about: an idealistic newbie or a calculating wolf? I'd lean towards the former at the moment. And btw. Legate: I'm quite ready to admit that I did suspect Shasta and voting him with what information I had then was the most reasonable thing to do, wagon or not. I said that I don't like bandwagons, but if the wagoned one is one of the few I'd feel even little confidence in voting for, then I'll vote thus. And anyway, if half the village votes for someone, then it isn't quite so random Legate seems to think (or would like us to think?). Even if all the wolves were included (which I doubt), it would still leave at least four innocents thinking him suspicious - most probably five or even six (I agree at least one wolf must have bite the chance). So what were you aiming at Legate claiming that randomness? You can't say Shasta wasn't looking suspicious with his odd to and fro with Lottie and "out of the blue" suspicions (made incredibly poorly) on Pitch? Okay, needs to take a short break... too much coming fore puzzling my mind. EDIT: x'd with many
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Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet... |
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10-07-2010, 03:49 PM
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#126 | |
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Wight of the Old Forest
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall
Posts: 3,329
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Quote:
 . Bigtime failure.
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Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI |
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10-07-2010, 03:57 PM
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#127 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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I have spent now quite some time with re-reading the thread, here are my conclusions about people based on yesterDay. Then I will see the posts of those who posted meanwhile (since my last post) and then go to sleep. So:
Greenie - she is somewhat, hmm, chaotic, there is very little actually from her, but it seems more like her innocent self. Also when I look at her several times remembered list of four options from yesterDay, I don't think she would post something so self-evident if she was a Wolf, it really looks like a sort of personal thought-process; a real one. Lottie - I don't know what to think. What I find curious is that people voted Shasta rather than her, as she was definitely far more suspicious than Shasta, who, of course in retrospect, didn't really do anything... I am curious to hear more from her, and what she thinks now that her initial gut-feeling suspect turned out to be the Seer. Nerwen - Nerwen, a question. Whom would you have voted in case you happened to be around earlier? I know it doesn't matter so much anymore and you can make up whatever you wish, but anyway I would like to hear the answer... Nogrod - like I said, somewhat uncomfortable with him. It is also interesting that in the beginning (post 42), he wanted to be careful about making conclusions about Shasta and Lottie, but later he basically straightaway switched into suspecting Shasta (while leaving Lottie be, saying she gets innocently lynched usually, which is true, though). Pitchwife - I am wondering about him. I do not find him any particularly innocent, but neither particularly suspicious... one thing seems clear to me: he and Boro are not the Wolves together. Unless there is some Cobbler-signal between them in this, the matter is just very untransparent to me still. Anyway, he seems reasonable in some way... his analysis of Lottie and Shasta close to the end of yesterDay seems genuine. Certainly not my first-hand pick now or anything like that. Skip - like I said, somewhat "riding the tidal wave". His first post repeats mostly things already said - that won't be bad by itself, but he is hardly constructive (although it's possible he doesn't have time or strength for it, but still); later he is sort of submarinish and his vote for Shasta in a kind of "who cares" manner. Lost in the crowd. Might be he just had a lot to do, but... Glirdy - okay, here is another of our rather suspicious people. Firstly, he is agreeable ("thanks to Legate for starting the conversation and to Pitch for questioning him") and at the same time (as already hinted in the previously mentioned quote) lays down some basis for suspicion, possibly in case if later it came handy. And he does the same for Pitch too. And joins the sort of suspicion bandwaggon on Shasta and Lottie. Really, honestly? If there is somebody really suspicious now to me, it is him. Inzil is another peculiar person. Very, sort of, unreadable. Hard to say anything concrete about him. Mostly he says "okay, thanks, nice" to people who clarify something which they said before to him - it happened two or three times. Sort of, well, it just catches one's attention that he is doing mostly that, of all things. Also, he says it will be too easy to see a Wolf among Shasta and Lottie, and he straightaway dismisses the possibility of them being Wolves both. Just seems a bit too sure, in a similar matter to Ozban. The point is that he does not even question the possibility of their wolfishness on the basis of "no, I think it's just banter" (like Ozzy did) or something concrete, but just "it's too easy". I mean, what kind of a reasoning is that? Of Boro I can't say much. He remains a questionmark for me, which is slightly unnerving, but well - hope to see more from him in the future, this far he is in no-idea cathegory. Similar with wilwa, with the fact that generally her actions seem innocentish to me. Of Ozban I spoke above basically in my previous post... I think he has generally sort of good style, it just remains to be seen whether he is hiding fur behind some mask or not. And Eönwë... his only and rather late appearence didn't say much, he could have been genuinely clueless innocent or just a Wolf who was also genuinely clueless as well, since he hasn't been around all day. So hope to see more from him still. Now on to all those I x-ed with...
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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10-07-2010, 04:09 PM
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#128 |
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Wight of the Old Forest
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall
Posts: 3,329
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I've been a bit under the weather all day, so I'm going to bed now and find out whether I'm going to come down with the flu or not. See you tomorrow (hopefully with a clearer head).
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Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI |
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10-07-2010, 04:22 PM
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#129 | |
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Flame of the Ainulindalë
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves
Posts: 9,308
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Well, I need to take back my words on Boro - or then he is the worst fellow-pusher I've ever seen (the stuff was there anyway, and someone would have inevitably found it, so why not do it oneself?).
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I share the anticipation of hearing what Lottie has to say. She tends to be "naturally suspicious" (as I think I phrased it yesterDay) and so her looking that way is no news and says nothing about her lupinity. Also I think that the probability of her being a wolf rested on the scenario of them having a wolf-on-wolf yesterDay. Now as it turned out it wasn't a w-on-w... well, let us hear. I see Legate keeps repeating this "Shasta was in no way suspicious-looking" -mantra - and it makes me worried. It does feel like the wisdom of the Owl of Minerva only taking to flight after the fact - or of someone who wishes others not to see the facts as they are - namely what Boro brought forwards from yesterDay. I suspected Shasta for real yeaterDay - and was wrong, and sadly know better now. But him being the seer quite so explains the "out of the blue" consistent attacks on Pitchie - and the oddish case he made against him, and why he didn't vote for Lottie but Pitchie in the end. So those things that made him look so suspicious... The only thing that bothers me with this interpretation is that it makes Shasta quite a reckless seer. That for sure merits some consideration as well. Is there any better explanation to his dream from N1? Anyway, bedtime for me as I have an early morning call (1.20am now), but I should have plenty of time later the Day to do some real digging for the first time in this game. EDIT: X'd with Pitchie
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Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet... |
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10-07-2010, 04:22 PM
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#130 | |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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Quote:
The wonder about so many people voting Shasta was unrelated to this. I can see why people suspected him, especially e.g. Pitch's questioning of his points was justified, I think (regardless of Shasta's innocence, the points he raised had objectively poor grounds), but I am more like wondering - and I said that if you have read correctly - that I thought Lottie far more suspicious, and wondered why of these two who were in the center of things, people mostly picked Shasta. I must say now, that from the recent posts I feel a bit better about skip and Nog - the former gives a sort of believable explanation of his thoughts (an explanation less likely for a Wolf to make up, I think) and the latter's response to me sounds also rather genuine. I am getting somewhat more concerned about Boro, but that is mostly because of his strong pressing against Pitch. As for Shasta's dream, I find it equally possible that he dreamed of guilty Pitch or innocent Nerwen. I see that Boro's points are rather convincing, but still they are not 100% and I am inclined to believe Pitch innocent, so it seems more acceptable for me to think that Shasta dreamed of innocent Nerwen. But nothing is set in stone, I am not going to put anything down as given now. I will however keep considering these two as the most likely options. EDIT: x-ed with Nogrod
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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10-07-2010, 04:40 PM
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#131 | |
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Flame of the Ainulindalë
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves
Posts: 9,308
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Left my PC open while getting ready to sleep...
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But as I think we see, the issue seems now to be what Shasta said, and did he leave any hints; did he dream of an innocent or a wolf; did he play carefully or recklessly etc.? And I think a few of us should take an independent look back there so that we could compare what people see. Okay, off for now.
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Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet... |
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10-07-2010, 04:43 PM
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#132 | ||
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Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,039
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Firstly, hats off to the Ranger and sharp intuition.
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Also, I was very curious what skip would say to explain his comment about possibly voting for Shasta and not wanting to give the reasons. That, though I didn't want to say so at the time, was another point in favor of my voting for Shasta. I thought skip could be intimating he was the Seer, especially when coupled with something I'd seen from him earlier. And skip's explanation for that comment was that he had wondered if Lottie wasn't the Seer. A disaster all way round. x/d with Nog
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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10-07-2010, 05:54 PM
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#133 | |
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Energetic Essence
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Where Lark Nor Eagle Ever Flew
Posts: 3,285
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Sorry I'm just waking up from having slept as I worked and have to work again so I will be absent for the better part of the Day.
First off, props to the Ranger! Great intuition on their part With Shasta being the Seer, I have three possible scenarios running through my mind. 1) He dreamt of Pitch who is a Wolf. 2) His trust in Nerwen (which I had originally thought to be wolfish) could have been because he dreamt of her. 3) Lottie is a Wolf for having had no real suspicion of him in the first place. Now, it is quite possible that two or all three of these scenarios is right, and it's even more probable that they're all wrong. However, I am more inclined to believe that at least one of them is correct and that is that the second one. Quote:
). Why else bring it up?For now I must depart and getting for work, I'll be back on afterwards and post some more and get caught up before leaving for eight hours
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I'm going to buy you a kitty, I'm going to let you fall in love with the kitty, and one cold, winter night, I'm going to steal into your house and punch you in the face! Fenris Wolf
Last edited by Glirdan; 10-07-2010 at 05:54 PM. Reason: Bolding |
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10-07-2010, 06:26 PM
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#134 | ||
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Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,039
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Quote:
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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10-07-2010, 06:43 PM
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#135 | ||
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The Werewolf's Companion
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Moon
Posts: 3,021
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First off - what the hey? What was that? That bandwagon has got to be one of the silliest bandwagons I've seen in a long time (and the fact that I've seen sillier is just sad.
). And by 'that bandwagon', I mostly mean the...five, was it, people who voted close to each other, towards the end. Did you guys see no problems in this situation?Quote:
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EDIT: xed with Zil
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I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night. Double Fenris
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10-07-2010, 07:11 PM
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Energetic Essence
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Where Lark Nor Eagle Ever Flew
Posts: 3,285
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Final Post Count from yesterDay:
Lottie -> Shasta Shasta -> Pitch Legate -> Lottie Inzil -> Shasta 2 Glirdy -> Shasta 3 Skip - > Shasta 4 Pitch - > Shasta 5 Boro - > Nerwen Greenie - > Shasta 6 Nog - > Shasta 7 Ozzy - > Legate Wilwa - > Wilwa Did not vote: Eonwe, Nerwen Out of those who voted for Shasta, I'm more inclined to believe that a Wolf is hiding in the later voters, more so in Greenie and Nog. At the time of their voting, Shasta had already garnered enough votes to have him lynched seeing as after Boro had voted, it only left those two along with Ozzy and Wilwa. Even if they had all voted for the same person and had tied up the votes, our Mod Goddess would have flipped a coin as there are no double lynchings, therefore, still a fifty/fifty chance of Shasta being lynched. The placement of both those votes just seems to safe. I don't know if any of that make sense to anybody else, but I've always had a hard time writing my thoughts out in coherent sentences for this game. Quote:
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Here's a thought. Maybe it was Nerwen who the Ranger protected? The Wolves would be smart and go through the game thread and examine every last post and think of the possible meanings, especially after having Shasta revealed as the Seer. They already know that Nerwen is innocent, so why not tie up any loose threads and be done with her so that we couldn't have a known innocent? Maybe the Ranger also picked up on it and that's who he/she chose to protect? Quote:
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Okay, now to get caught up on the OTHER posts that have been made since I started writing this. In other words, I know I've cross posted with x amount of people since my last. EDIT: Okay I was wrong, x'ed with Zil and Lottie
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I'm going to buy you a kitty, I'm going to let you fall in love with the kitty, and one cold, winter night, I'm going to steal into your house and punch you in the face! Fenris Wolf
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10-07-2010, 07:19 PM
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#137 | |
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The Werewolf's Companion
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Moon
Posts: 3,021
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I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night. Double Fenris
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10-07-2010, 07:59 PM
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#138 |
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Energetic Essence
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Where Lark Nor Eagle Ever Flew
Posts: 3,285
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Okay, well I sadly must depart for work shortly and will be unable to post until I get off. Hopefully some conversation might happen whilst I'm away
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I'm going to buy you a kitty, I'm going to let you fall in love with the kitty, and one cold, winter night, I'm going to steal into your house and punch you in the face! Fenris Wolf
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10-07-2010, 08:31 PM
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#139 | |||
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Laconic Loreman
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 7,521
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Quote:
I haven't seen that type of vast majority agreement in the village, unless the Seer stepped out to reveal a wolf. Usually once someone gets 1 or 2 votes, with the close nature of Day 1 someone who doesn't agree will step up to defend and warn against a bandwagon. There was no one who did, which means either villagers took the easy vote for someone they thought was acting weird or the wolves bandwagoned the heck out of that to push Shasta as the clear lynch. For myself, my random vote became more frustration than anything. Because when I went to do a vote count the votes were: Shasta - 3, Pitch - 1and Lottie - 1. I wasn't suspicious of any of those choices and was trying to put another name into the list. At the time my strongest suspect was Nogrod, not particularly strong reasons though. I couldn't get this image out of my head that Nog had this gigantic smirking grin on his face every time he posted. No joke about that, I just imagine him having this massive smirk across his face all Day 1. The reason I didn't vote for him is simply because I think someone is up to something doesn't mean they are necessarily evil. And with Day 1's I tend to let the people who look up to something go and do their thing, just watch them until I can figure them out, and then vote for someone who hasn't left any real impressions. Then before I even know it Shasta's got another two votes giving him 5 and by that time I basically threw my hands up for the night. He was all but dead and buried. That's the shame about the lynch is by that point when Shasta has the 5 votes, everyone's vote after is virtually useless. I was hoping to try and add some competition and make the last voters votes mean more as they'd be faced with a more difficult choice, but before I could blink Shasta went from 3 to 5 and you can stick a phorc in him at that point. That Day 1 would make a good psych study though, because usually once you get one dissenter those after the dissenter are more likely to dissent themselves. However, no one dissented, and without a dissenter the rocks just keep piling. Morrrre weight! Quote:
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The only scenario I can come up with that would be Shasta did not dream of Pitch is something that probably would belong in Werewolf twisted lore . That is, Shasta was doing some twisted double bluff in looking like the seer, but giving a wrong clue to throw the wolves off. I mean when I try to bluff to be the seer, I pick one person for random junk reasons and if I'm right I hope the wolf is nervous enough to bite and if I'm wrong then obviously the wolves know I'm not the seer. So, with Shasta actually being the seer, in order to still look seerish but protect himself from the wolves, his continued pressing on Pitch was almost like a false clue or red herring. And that he was suspicious of Pitch, but hadn't dreamed of him and possibly telegraphing his next dream?I want to point out that my previous post, which went through Shasta's posts was NOT a "lynch Pitch campaign." We have a dead seer, I want to try and figure out what his 1 dream was so we could get something useful from the mess. The fact still remains he only suspected Pitch for what at the time to everyone else looked like complete junk reasons. I have no clue what it means, or whether his dream was Pitch or not. That's not the purpose of my post, my purpose was to try to organize the Seer's posts into one and find out what, if any, clues were in them. Edit: crossed with Glirdan
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Fenris Penguin
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10-07-2010, 08:40 PM
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#140 |
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Fluttering Enchantment
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,508
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First off, I'd like to say I don't completely understand why Shasta was voted for by soooo many people. I didn't really think he was that suspicious (his case against Pitch was weird, I'll get back to that, but not *that* suspicious) and then everyone just pounced on him. I mean a couple votes would have made sense, but like 7? Seriously...
So I initially thought that Pitchwolf must have been Shasta's dream, but the more I think about it the more it seems way too obvious to me. I don't know if Shasta would be quite so obvious, since that would paint a huge target on his head for the wolvies. An innocent Nerwen dream seems more likely to me, I'll look at his posts again though once I've slept. And...I'll stop there. I'm going to go sleep and I have the day off tomorrow (save for a nice little pile of homework) so I should be on fairly regularly. x'ed with Boro
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Comme une étoile amarante Comme un papillon de nuit C'est la lumière qui m'attire La flamme qui m'éblouit Fenris Muffin
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10-07-2010, 08:41 PM
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#141 | ||||
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Wisest of the Noldor
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ
Posts: 6,694
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On that note, I think the "Shasta looks wolfier" meme of yesterDay needs examining. I couldn't see that at the time and I don't see it now. Quote:
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EDIT:X'd with Wilwa.
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. |
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10-07-2010, 09:09 PM
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#142 | |||
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Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,039
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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10-07-2010, 11:09 PM
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#143 | |
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Wisest of the Noldor
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ
Posts: 6,694
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At least, they're the people I was thinking about when I signed off yesterDay. I might have thrown some others into the mix if I'd been around later. I maintain that bandwagon was weird, and that those saying, "yes, but he WAS suspicious!" are missing the point. Everyone involved was moderately to highly experienced– did it really occur to none of you that a big, near-unanimous bandwagon on Day One probably wasn't the best idea?* Apparently not. So– I say there was some pretty skilful manipulation going on yesterDay. We may be able to find traces. *If someone's extremely suspicious, that's different– but once again, I don't see that Shasta was.
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. |
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10-07-2010, 11:31 PM
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#144 |
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The Werewolf's Companion
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Moon
Posts: 3,021
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Nerwen's explanation makes a lot of sense, and Greenie hadn't been untalked about - more than one person commented on her post. Coupled with her late bandwagon-vote, she doesn't exactly make my list of people I'm not voting for - which, in case anyone was wondering (doubtful
 ) consists primarily of:Glirdy and Zil as not-evil; Boro and Nerwen (as intelligent). Not-trusted: Pitchie because of uncertainty as to whether Shasta dreamed him evil or not; Nog because he makes me uneasy; Legate because he seems just a bit too smooth (don't really suspect him for it, but don't trust him because of it, either); Ozzy because I don't know him well enough to read him yet (and I can just see the wolves pulling off a brilliant double-bluff by making a newbie seem totally well adjusted); Everyone Else because I haven't noticed anything about them. SO yeah. Not going to vote for People I Am Not Voting For. Probably not Ozzy, Nog, Pitchie, or most of the people I haven't noticed. Which leaves Legate, Greenie, or a random sub-ish person. Preferably not random sub-ish person. I'll be on again in the morning, but I don't know how much. It won't be sleep time for another hour or so, either, so I'll be around...some...toDay...
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I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night. Double Fenris
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10-08-2010, 01:48 AM
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#145 | |
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Wisest of the Noldor
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ
Posts: 6,694
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. |
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10-08-2010, 01:54 AM
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#146 | |
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The Werewolf's Companion
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Moon
Posts: 3,021
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I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night. Double Fenris
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10-08-2010, 02:17 AM
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#147 | ||||
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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I don't have so much time now, replying to some posts, but not to all... will look at the rest when I come back...
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There is something unnerving me about Lottie's recent post, if I say it shortly, sort of hypocrisy or what... it looks like that... ("oh you lynched shasta"). I know an innocent can start a bandwaggon unwillingly, but still this looks fake. Whatever... gotta really run now! Will be back in several hours.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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10-08-2010, 02:38 AM
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#148 | |
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Wisest of the Noldor
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ
Posts: 6,694
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And now we know Shasta was the Seer... EDIT:X'd with Legate. *I don't care if the rest of you have given up on ic-posting. I'll do it if I want to. Nyahhh.
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. |
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10-08-2010, 04:53 AM
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#149 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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I actually have more time than I originally thought I would have and I am back already, so a few comments: I'm starting to feel quite well about Boro (especially his post 139, which seems both okay to me when it comes to its substance as well as it seeming genuinely innocent, which is the main point) and also Nerwen because of her posts and responses (sort of similar case). I am not still so sure about Lottie. For that matter, I would still like to know more about her picks - so is it just choosing the best possible pick for lynch since you don't actually have much of an idea about anybody, do I get it right?
For that matter, I will really have to vote soon (in, say, two hours at most), so I should just start slowly deciding... I have basically two main options right now, that being Glirdy and Lottie. Otherwise: Boro, Nerwen, Pitch I feel quite good about at the moment, wilwa also although now she hasn't posted much and her last post was nothing special, but I probably won't be around to hear more from her; Ozban I am watching, but convinced to leave him be for the time being and just observe; skip I feel a bit better about from his early toDay posting, Nogrod has still some questionmarks but likewise he is not so heavily alarming now, Greenie and Eönwë I have very little idea about and Inzil too, with some more like gut-feeling of uneasiness with him, but that's mostly it. I'm thinking that at least one Wolf might be among the two I am considering to vote right now, Glirdy looks a bit more likely to be a baddie to me, but we shall see. I'll check a few times if anybody posts anything, and then I will have to vote and go.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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10-08-2010, 06:29 AM
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#150 | ||||
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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Okay, time to vote is getting near for me. Actually upon reading her posts, I am now inclined to vote Lottie toDay. Seriously, especially her toDay's posts are just... bad. (And that said, the suspicion for the strange way she behaved in relation to Shasta yesterDay still holds, of course, too.)
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And where did this Greenie suspicion come from anyway? I don't see her even in Lottie's list. Isn't it per any chance picking on what Nerwen just said about suspecting her, or a slip of mind where she noted to herself - as a Wolf - "Nerwen seemed to suspect Greenie, from now on I am pretending to trust her because of that explanation" and accidentally then messing it up in her head and writing her among the suspects? I can see that happening to a Wolf... All in all, my vote probably goes there... just going to look if perchance anybody didn't post meanwhile and then I go...
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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10-08-2010, 06:30 AM
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#151 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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Okay, for epic triple-post...
++Lottie Vote well, village, and hopefully see you on the following Day... (and in the best case, with a dead Wolf there.)
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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10-08-2010, 06:31 AM
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#152 |
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Wisest of the Noldor
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ
Posts: 6,694
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I keep thinking about the "who did Shasta dream?" question. I think it has to be either me (innocent) or Pitch (wolf).
In support of the theory that it was me we have the fact that the wolves and Ranger both picked the same person, suggesting that they were following the same line of reasoning. Now, the wolves, unlike the Ranger obviously wouldn't have seen me as a "dreamed innocent" if they knew that the Seer's dream had been one of them. In support of the theory that it was Pitch, we have Shasta's otherwise inexplicable "case" on him. We also have, perhaps, the fact of the huge bandwagon. I'm still not sure who was driving the thing, but it surely had wolfish involvement– could the wolves have picked him as the Seer, and taken the opportunity to get rid of him? Reading through yesterDay, I can't see any good reason for Shasta to act as he did unless he'd got a wolf– and yet Pitch nowhere sounds wolfish, except perhaps in his vote-post. As for the Shasta-voters... actually they all look quite suspicious after another read-though. I'm not sure what to think yet. EDIT:X'd with 2 Legates.
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. Last edited by Nerwen; 10-08-2010 at 07:14 AM. |
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10-08-2010, 07:12 AM
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#153 | |||||
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Fluttering Enchantment
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,508
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But yes, it was a super strange bandwaggon. Look at this:Lottie -> Shasta Shasta -> Pitch Legate -> Lottie Inzil -> Shasta 2 Glirdy -> Shasta 3 Skip - > Shasta 4 Pitch - > Shasta 5 Boro - > Nerwen Greenie - > Shasta 6 Nog - > Shasta 7 Ozzy - > Legate Wilwa - > Wilwa Looking at just the placement of the votes I'd say Skip, Pitch, Greenie and Nog have the worst ones. (though I would need to look at their actual reasoning before I could say whether it was actually suspicious) And has anyone realised that nobody else yesterday had more than one vote. Shasta was not that suspicious, at least not so much more so than Lottie. So I don't understand. I'm going to go back and take a closer look at all this. Quote:
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See one thing that goes through a wolf's head when they are choosing who to kill is to look for Seer hints that point to them. If we hadn't of killed Shasta and Pitchwolf was indeed his dream just think of what may have happened last Night. Pitchwolf and his mates looking for possible Seers, see Shasta's blatant attack on him, and maybe think "wow, he could be the Seer, but if we kill him and we're right than that will point straight to Pitch" or "he could be the Seer, but Shasta would never be that obvious, he's bluffing". I actually think it would be a smart thing to be overly obvious about a dream like that, it may have protected him from the wolves. Savvy? And I have to say, knowing Shasta, that if Pitchwolf was his dream and we decide to ignore the hints, Shasta will mass murder us out of frustration. x'ed with Nerwen, and just had a thought, Nerwen would be a likely Night 1 dream for Shasta, but I still think we shouldn't let Pitch get by
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Comme une étoile amarante Comme un papillon de nuit C'est la lumière qui m'attire La flamme qui m'éblouit Fenris Muffin
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10-08-2010, 07:33 AM
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#154 | |||
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Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: On the road, again...
Posts: 73
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After reading whole thread through again, I tend to suspect Lottie. Especially his toDay's posts sound crooked. Then again, I'd say that if Lottie'd be a wolf, she wouldn't cast a vote first. And even without any firm accusation, just a "gut-feeling"? Such an approach seem to risky for a wolf to try it.
I'm not really fond of Legate either, he's still seems somehow... someone described it as "too smooth". His toDay's post did fix his reputation partly, but I shall still observe him closer than the others. Pitch never sounded wolfish, but that scenario of him being dreamt unnerves me. eventhough it seems to me more likely, that Nerwen was dreamt about. From Shasta's formulation of his trust towards her... Still can't now. (Actually I begin to think it's motto of this whole game: Do something when you know nothing.  ) Those last two votes, Nog n Greenie, are quite suspicious. Reading through Nog's posts, he remains active, but refrains from attacking anybody. Now I'd really need comparison with some of his older games, whether it's totaly normal or not. Quote:
Serching for traces of some manipulation, as Nerwen suggested, I tend to think that it wasn't Nog's doing. I'm convinced though, that among Shasta-voters were at least one, more likely two wolves. If there has been any silent intrigues, I'd say that Zil and Gilr were most active at accusing pauvre Seer. It may be genuine, of course, but in a way it seem too concentrated on Shasta, leaving Lottie out, why? Cover? Also... Quote:
I don't know. Seems too carefree, too crowd-loving if you know what I mean. And... Quote:
In the end Eönwë was only one of us that defended Shasta. For that he has my trust. As much as is possible in this game. Truth is, sadly I know none of you, in-game at least. So it's hard to guess peoples intentions, without comparision with their previous styles. Later...
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Let us sit upon the ground, and tell sad stories of the death of kings. - Shakespeare (Richard II) |
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10-08-2010, 07:44 AM
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#155 |
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Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: On the road, again...
Posts: 73
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X'ed previous with Wilwa.
You seem quite bloodthirsty ya know? Your logic is sound though. Is it your Lupine hunger? About that we should ponder. Or you may really fear for your skin. In that case, we shall protect your kin. Considering danger upon our head, we need now more to be said. Only then we may truth discern, And to Nargothrond return. Later...
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Let us sit upon the ground, and tell sad stories of the death of kings. - Shakespeare (Richard II) |
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10-08-2010, 07:52 AM
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#156 | |||
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Laconic Loreman
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 7,521
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The ranger's mind was on the same page as the wolves last night, but I don't think the seer dream would have been much of a consideration. Like you said, if one of the wolves thought they were dreamed, then they wouldn't be considering killing a "dreamed innocent." But even if they didn't think one of them was Shasta's dream, with how trailless and little Shasta's posts were, they couldn't find any obvious clues that would lead us to the "dreamed innocent" to be all that concerned about killing the "dreamed innocent." That's a bit jumpled, but in summary, I think now you're over-complicating it. Quote:
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I'm beating on the same drum about that band-wagon (and I'm skeptical of Nogrod suggesting it was justified because Shasta was so obviously suspicious), but Nerwen's absolutely right that's got wolf prints all over it. I think Legate, or Nerwen, or someone had mentioned this early but worth saying again. When you have that type of attention and battle between two people usually there is a much mroe even split and division, and there was none, which suggests wolves pushed a bandwagon onto Shasta. Now this doesn't mean they were protecting a bandwagon against a wolf-Lottie, maybe they saw an opportunity to implicate both by getting a bandwagon against Shasta, but at the same time framing an innocent-Lottie to make it look like they were protecting her. I can't tell who drove it either, but I do know this. Greenie gives her 4 possibilities and seems to take the side that Lottie looks more innocent than Shasta. Nerwen interprets it differently and seems to think of the two Shasta looks more innocent (correct?) So there's the split, and you've got Shasta of course saying Greenie's reasons for defending Lottie were junk. Greenie and/or Nerwen could be wolves here to put more focus on the two, however for now I think they were both commenting on the first spark of action in the day that wasn't cobbler talk. What's more suspicious is everything after the split of opinion, everyone piles onto Shasta. The talk evolves into a "wolf on wolf" between Lottie and Shasta, and in those situations it really should be 50-50, with how people interpret things differently, but instead it was all a thumbs up for Greenie's post and Shasta looks more suspicious. Which, is also suspicious, I mean what was so spectacular about Greenie's post (no offense Greenie)? What it essentially was is...here's 4 possibilities between Lottie and Shasta, any one of them is equally possible? I also recall a lot of Shasta is getting very aggressive and defensive (so latching onto Lottie's self-admitted "gut feelings") to pile against Shasta. That whole situation after Greenie and Nerwen's differing opinions (and it's important to add Legate's vote for Lottie because he felt of the two Lottie was more suspicious) is wolvish. You should see a continued even-split in votes and what we get is consistent several pats on the back for Greenie's post, and a move to "Lottie and Shasta look wolf-on-wolf...Shasta looks like the wolf more than Lottie!) One thing away from the band-wagon yesterday, to say to is about Wilwa's self-vote. It may be the frustration of having a meaningless vote, but it looks pretty weird and flippant. More like a cobbler signal to the wolves though than a wolf casting a meaningless vote. She said she never had the chance to vote for herself, seems to have wanted to and now was as good of a chance as any, but also find yourself a good opportunity to say "Here's your cobbler wolvsies," Wilwa? Pre-edit: because I've got distracted by an outside convo and this post has taken longer than anticipated, so I'm sure I've crossed. Nerwen's post that I reply to here is the last one I read.
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10-08-2010, 08:02 AM
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#157 | |||||||
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Wisest of the Noldor
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ
Posts: 6,694
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I'm thinking at the moment it should be one of those two. At least they're not mutually exclusive as villains. Quote:
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EDIT:X'd with Boro and Ozban-turned-poet. EDIT2: word left out.
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. Last edited by Nerwen; 10-08-2010 at 08:08 AM. |
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10-08-2010, 08:24 AM
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#158 | |
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Wisest of the Noldor
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ
Posts: 6,694
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Here's something from early in the Day that I meant to comment on.
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. |
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10-08-2010, 08:45 AM
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#159 |
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Wisest of the Noldor
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ
Posts: 6,694
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Well, I have to vote now, so–
++Pitchwife the (hopefully) Furry Furrier Good luck!
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. |
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10-08-2010, 09:21 AM
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#160 |
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Laconic Loreman
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 7,521
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My Not going to vote for List because they aren't coming off as cobblery or wolfy.
Legate Lottie Nerwen Greenie Because out of the entire Shasta-Lottie thing they come out looking the most innocent. Nerwen and Greenie could be wolves who wanted to draw attention to it, but it looks more like just commenting on the first real action of the day. What happens afterwards is far more suspicious. Legate because he was the only one who voted (and said) for Lottie, saying she looked more wolvish. He could be a wolf just evening the votes up and seeing whatever way the wind blows, but he was the only one who actually stepped up for Shasta and put some action behind his words by voting for Lottie. Lottie, I seriously think she is an innocent bystander caught up in a sneaky wolf plot. Because the other thing that is suspicious yesterday is how the convo turned into Lottie and Shasta being "wolf on wolf attack." Leaving the door open for when Shasta turned up innocent the wolves can just say "That must mean Lottie's the wolf!" for the same equally weak reasons that were used against Shasta. Cobbler suspects and could possibly vote for if I'm not entirely confident in a wolf. Wilwa Nogrod I mentioned Wilwa and my last post and shall wait for a response, but right now that self-vote looks like a cobbler signaling wolves more than anything. I didn't say much about Nogrod yesterday because I thought then he was acting differently, "different" as in strange and cobblery. However, I didn't want to draw much attention to it because it wouldn't be the first time the seer pretended to be the cobbler to protect from being killed at night. We know now Nog isn't the seer so all of his strange behavior and today insistance to look at those he thinks chose the "moral high ground" to not vote for Shasta just looks straight up cobblery. I mean if I was the cobbler, I would definitely assume there were some wolves hiding in all those Shasta votes, and not knowing who they would be, would try to get attention to those who didn't bandwagon. The rest of the bunch who are neither coming off as people I would not want to vote for nor the cobbler, and thus possible wolves who I may cast a vote for... Glirdan Skip Inzil Pitch Ozban Eonwe I don't think I've left out anyone if I did they will also fall under this last list since that means I've clearly forgotten that you are even in this village. Of 'em Inzil and Pitch look the most wolvish. Pitch for Shasta's posts and how he changed his position on the Shasta-Lottie affair. I'd like to hear from him, but he seems under the weather today. Hope you feel better, but I'll consider it only equally fair treatment to vote for you without being able to come on and say anything in defense. I will now and forever refer to this act as giving someone "The Shasta treatment." Inzil because he was one of the ones who gave a pat to Greenie's post and vote Shasta. Even if it was only the 2nd vote on him, on Day 1, 2 votes usually a bandwagon doth make and that sparked the end result.
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