WW: LXXXV - The Lost Philosophers of Maiar

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Pitchwife is making me uneasy.

Who are you and what have you done with our beloved over-verbose Rikae?

X'd since the post I quoted, as I've not refreshed in....quite a while, actually

[Nogrod]

I thought I wrote the beginning and th ending times of D1 into like ten places + added the reminder that D1 lasts 36 hours like as many times...

Well it seems you can never give out too much info...



So this Day1 lasts for 36 hours.

It began on 10AM GMT/UTC (5AM EST)

and will end on 10PM GMT/UTC (5PM EST) tomorrow.


So you have 22 hours left of the Day.

22 hours and fifteen minutes left to be more exact.


ADD: Valier & Lottie: there seems to be also a "one hour" miss in your calculations (or then I have given you faulty information). But that is easily checked. Look at my post that starts this ongoing D1 (post #4) and see the time stamp on the top left corner. The hour that post was sent is the deadline hour. The only change is that as the D1 is exceptionally 36 hours long, the deadline for D1 is not that X AM as it reads in your screen but the same X PM tomorrow. Like I said above; about 22 hours from now.

[Macalaure]

My, my, my, what a mess here. Cobblers and wolves and chaotic hunters, people wanting to kill with their brain, people doing math (do not tempt me!)... If you think that I'm going to clean this all up you're mighty wrong. Mighty wrong!

*glares*

...

Alright, I'll do it.

Let's put all the absent ones in a box and put it in a corner. Ozban goes into the safe, since I haven't played with him yet. The feel-good ones (Boro, Skip, Legate, Lommy, Sally) go into the drawer over there. The ones who haven't said much of consequence yet (Shasta, Lottie, Nessa, Inzil, Valier) go on that (rather big) shelf over the drawer.

Is anybody going to help me with this?

...

*sigh*

The suspicious ones go in the oven to roast:

Originally Posted by Aganzir

It's more than likely that the wolves and the cobbler try to identify each other as soon as possible

Radar make *bling* (remembrance of a game of old)

Pitch's "on the one hand - one the other hand - I don't know" reply to this doesn't look good either, if you ask me. Compare it to skip's straightforward logic.


Finally, Cailín and Rikae get the nice place on the mantelpiece for putting their suspicion and vote in the right place. The safe with Ozban goes on the mantelpiece, too.


edit: Kitanna gets a place on the mantelpiece, too, for putting tons of good points into a concise post. There's not enough of that.

Originally Posted by skip

The Seer must however be very careful to not leave any false trails should he/she happen to get killed.

This makes the seer extremely identifyable by the wolves.

*puts skip in the oven and turns up the heat*

[skip spence]

This makes the seer extremely identifyable by the wolves.

*puts skip in the oven and turns up the heat*

Haha, thank you for that.

I disagree with you that a measure of carefulness would reveal the Seer in such a large village (or even in a small). And I'm not saying the Seer shouldn't suspect someone at all unless he/she is sure, only that the Seer at this point shouldn't strongly accuse one specific person in the instance he or she happens to get killed because that is very risky. When Shasta was the Seer in that already mentioned game, we foolishly killed him, and then proceeded to almost unanimously lynch an innocent the following Day - I believe it was Pitch) - because Shasta seemed to come after him strongly and we though he was a dreamed of wolf. It was horrible.

[Kath]

Ah! I actually thought I'd missed Day 1 there. I mean I am spirit of nostalgia I know but I have been trying not to do that!

Now, what is deadline? 10 pm tomorrow?

We have retractables so I will vote just in case that's totally wrong, but I sincerely intend to return and vote based on more information assuming I'm right.

Oh! Ignore that, I've just got to the bottom of Nog's post which confirms that deadline IS 10 pm tomorrow. This is now just a random stream of consciousness. Oh well.

Lommy - I would take offence at my inability to play Day 1 being made into a verb, but as I thought I'd done it again I can't.

For once I'm with Legate. Banter is fun but some substance is good too. A mix within posts then would be the solution! If I was someone who had any skills with this in role business.

Wow Agan starts Seer talk in post number 8! Get you with your attention seeking. Fair point though. If we're getting to the stage where the wolves are cutting the innocent numbers by such a degree it probably would be necessary.

I love Pitch. 'Don't lynch Blind Guardian for silly default reasons'. Followed by 'Hmm I don't like Ozban's lazy way of stating the obvious.' (Oddly in text that comes across as really ... mean. It's not meant that way.)

To answer Valier: Agan said 'she' when referring to the Seer because Nog-God has explained all his special roles using 'she'.

So there you have the thoughts that have sprung up on my readthrough. Beats me what's going on right now and so I am off to bed. I imagine there will be 17 new pages to read by tomorrow.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Pitch

To which I'd like to add, No BlindGuardianing either, please. She's been the default D1 lynch in her last two games, I'd be very wroth to see that repeated without very good reasons.

So if she turns out to be a wolf, I know who to look at.

Originally Posted by Pitch

xe will indeed probably want to make xyrself known to the pack in time.

I would poke some fun at one Bill Ferny here (not you wilwa) but I don't want to give anyone ideas.

Originally Posted by Pitch

On the other hand, I see our Mod has seen fit to grant the cobbler a means to send secret messages to the wolves, so I don't know how much 'open' hinting we're going to see on the thread. Still worth keeping an eye open, to be sure.

You can blame me for that because it was originally my suggestion. I semi-regret it now, just like I regret opposing Lommy who said the ranger should get two saves as long as the wolves get two kills (this took place somewhere else than the admin thread).
However I'm pretty sure we are going to see hinting. I've done it before and the village didn't pay any attention to me, and at least I intend not to be so careless. It's an entirely different matter how easy it is to spot, but however careful they are, in the long run we should be able to see connections.

Originally Posted by Pitch

But it's not like an open Seer reveal is the only way to catch a wolf, so we should all do our best and not rely on the Seer to risk their neck for us.

I know and I'm not asking the seer to reveal early just for the general good (because no one wants to sacrifice herself just like that)... But hypothetically if we lynch an innocent each day and the wolves kill two a night, it's going to be 5-10 (I count the cobbler as a wolf because the risk is high they manage to identify each other and can therefore vote more or less together) at the beginning of day 4. That isn't too bad yet, but the seer can't really afford to die without leaving hints (which is risky too because it will lead the wolves to her quicker, etc etc).

Originally Posted by Pitch

The question is, what conclusions should we draw from this once we manage to lynch our first wolf?

I think normal wolf behaviour rules also apply to them this time. Yeah they have more to lose by lynching one of their own, but they might still do it. So I don't think we can draw any conclusions whatsoever, and least of all that we should draw conclusions from it.

Ozban but day 1s are fun! And if you dare to vote for me I'm going to burn all your blackberries once I get out of here!

I have nothing against voting for a quiet player today if I don't have a better idea, just because I dislike both quiet wolves, gifteds and ordos.

Originally Posted by Cailín

Because I know she can take it and I owe her one anyway.

Actually no, we were even before you did that... You lynched me in Dueling Wizards 2.

Originally Posted by Lottie

so I don't know what a Wolín looks like.

Even scarier than Cardo.

I like Rikae. Not that it makes her innocent.

Originally Posted by Val

I noticed you said she..... any reasons?

Yes. I dreamed of her and found out she's the seer.
Anyway for me everyone is a she until proven otherwise.

I don't know what to make of Nessa's maths... On the one hand it makes me slightly uneasy (you'd think a baddie had more of a reason to know where exactly she stands), on the other it's good to know how many innocents we can afford to lynch without being in serious trouble (one of my favourite wolf strategies is to give the villagers a false sense of security by being strongly yet discreetly of the opinion we can check out yet another quiet/enigmatic person, and another, and another, until it's too late).

Originally Posted by Ozban

Hey, I actually invented a way to lessen wolves chance of murdering one of gifteds, we can lynch one of them ourselves!

I don't think I like this plan. :P

I also like Kitanna, which doesn't mean that she's innocent though.

Originally Posted by Mac

Radar make *bling* (remembrance of a game of old)

Hey what's suspicious about that? They have the means to do it, and the only thing we can do about it is to try to make it as difficult for them as possible.

Originally Posted by Mac

Cailín and Rikae get the nice place on the mantelpiece for putting their suspicion and vote in the right place.

I would've thought this was sarcasm, but then he also puts Kitanna on the mantelpiece. What's up Mac?

[Kath]

Agan sticks to a point once she's made it. I agreed with her about the Seer and I don't think talking about it is a problem. You've got to think about it. I do find what she says about Nessa to be a bit odd. She says looking at the maths could be seen as wolvish yet she did the same thing in that very post.

Shasta wants to suspect Pitch but thinks thats 'Lottie' reasoning. Forgive me, it's been a while. Is this a bad thing? It's Day 1, you can't have that much reasoning. Says he has no read on Rikae and sally which faintly worries him.

Someone said Lottie didn't really seem to have suspicions. She does have worries about sally, Mac (ish) and while she can see the potential suspicion of Pitch she doesn't want to focus on it as it's based on what others said. On the other hand, she exonerates a fair number of people: Agan, Kitanna, skip and Shasta. With as much reasoning as can be had this early!

Boro says he doesn't see the reasons behind suspecting Pitch. First one so far.

Kitanna doesn't like Pitch's 'polite' game or Rikae or sally.

Blind Guardian says she suspects Ozban for a comment about Shasta. Fairly sure that was based on an unfortunate Day 1 bandwagon in a previous game and was intended as a joke.

Inzil suspects Pitch as well for his first post feeling 'forced'. Given the rest of the reasoning that's come up this is a bit shoddy. Suggests Cailin could be a cobbler but is more likely just limited by RL.

Mac says it's unlikely for there really to be that many hints flying about. I actually agree. With all the wolves alive they don't really care about the Cobbler. And currently the Cobbler hasn't more knowledge of the wolves than we do. So hinting is going to be pretty limited at the moment.

Nessa defends Pitch and suggests Rikae knows something we don't. Weird half hint at Rikae being Gited there, especially as that's pretty much just how Rikae is!

Rikae says due to the reactions that have gone on that she's pretty ok with Pitch and less so with Inzil and Lottie. I can see what she means about Inzil, not so convinced about Lottie.

Mac thinks Agan is the cobbler because she was the first to mention it and did so very early on.

Ozban says Inzil is unreadable and finds that worrying. Why specifically Inzil? Also questions Nessa for suggesting Rikae might be Gifted.

Legate thinks Lottie might be the cobbler. Fair reasoning behind it but it is the kind of reasoning that can also be explained as 'Day 1 confusion'.

elronds-daughter arrives and agrees that Pitch is suspicious based on a quick read through of the thread, yet requires more time to think on Agan or Legate/Lottie. Hmm.

Greenie finds Agan suspicious. Thinks the way Nessa defended Pitch was odd, which I agree with.

Agan has some interesting suspicions about Mac and skip. Says she might vote for them or for quiet players. Do I count toDay Agan?

Shasta thinks Mac was making too much out of Agan's post. I kind of agree as I'm not finding Agan that suspicious. Likes Legate due to what he writes about Lottie. Again, the reasoning for Lottie does look pretty odd to me as I've not played recently but hey if everyone else is finding it odd maybe it's just me.

wilwa starts off with complaining that we haven't talked enough, but then complains that we've talked about things we don't need to talk about. Huh. Which is it? Talk about nothing or talk about something at least! Exonerates Pitch and mentions potential suspicion of Agan. Basically just one weird post.

Ha, Rikae agrees with me about wilwa. Is this a first?

Ozban is suspicious of sally and Agan a little as well. Wants to hear more from sally. Doesn't everyone?

Valier doesn't think Pitch suspicious, but worries about Rikae because she did suspect Pitch and then voted otherwise. Rikae did follow through and explain her change of mind though.

Pitch has a fair point that while people kept talking about it being vital to catch wolves there seems to have been some strange consensus to focus more on the Cobbler. If Agan is evil then well done her for that!

Ha, sally, if it helps 'disgusting' is Lommy's favourite word. She's pretty worried about skip for seeming to try and muffle the Seer.

Valier is on wilwa's side about leaving the Seer alone to get on with it. Fair enough, I just don't see the problem with throwing out possibilities whether they've thought of them already or not.

Votes:
Kitanna --> Pitch (for trying to look helpful but not being)
Legate --> Lottie (as a suspected cobbler)
Rikae --> wilwa (evil masquerading as innocent)
Inzil --> Nessa (for trying to look helpful)
Shasta --> Lottie (for Legate's reasons)

Back in a few with thoughts and a vote.

[Kath]

Oh and cross-posted since the end of page 3.

[Kath]

Cailín -> Aganzir
Kitanna -> Pitchie
Legate -> Lottie
Rikae -> wilwa
Zil -> Nessa
Shasta -> Lottie2
Boro -> Zil
sally -> Pitch2
Ozban -> Nessa2
wilwa -> sally
Pitch -> Nessa3

Well I've said I won't vote Nessa and I'll stick with that, though I can certainly see why people are finding her suspicious.

My vote goes to:

++INZIL

And that's it from me.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Kath

wilwa starts off with complaining that we haven't talked enough

Woah, I never said that, I said people shouldn't have still been talking about the roles, I never said people weren't talking enough.

And this Nessa thing isn't sitting well with me. I sorta get the reasons, but they are rather flimsy (math might be an awful subject, but I don't think math = evil, and the Rikae thing, we're calling that "attempted Seer-outing", really?).

x'ed with Kath, defensive because people didn't like me agreeing with them, I think it was warranted

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Day One reasoning is, and ought to be, the slave of the passions.

[Nogrod]

"So, Sally got the most votes. What should we do now?" Aganzir asked.

"Pass me the hemlock" Sally said wryly.

"Are you an innocent or not?" asked the Blind Guardian confused.

"Of course I am, now get on with the poison. No muffins this time." Sally said defiantly.

"But hey, if you’re innocent, couldn’t we make a new vote? Let’s not kill an innocent!" Pitchwife gasped.

"Listen. We have decided that we should pick the one to die by a democratic vote. I accepted the terms as did you all others – so how could I try to shy away from a principle I had earlier accepted? I wouldn’t be calling for a re-vote if someone else had been chosen, so I can’t allow it in case I am picked myself. Is it that so hard to figure?" Sally answered grinning almost amusedly.

"But the consequences will be disasterous if we go on killing innocents!" yelled Nessa, "Look at the numbers!"

Sally took a deep breath. "Well how do you go picking another target? If I avoid the sentence, then I effectively turn it on someone else who might be just as innocent as I am. So wouldn’t I have wronged then? It is better to suffer wrong than to do wrong; it is not so important to live, but to live righteously. And to live righteously is to live under the principles of truth, goodness and beauty, right? And turning away from those principles, or doing outright wrong for personal gain, can not be righteous in any case, now can it?"

There was silence…


~*~

… which was broken by Melkor’s booming voice.


“So the stubborn one is the chosen one then? It is a pleasure to start with those strong in faith…”

“You don’t scare me Melkor. You’re just an imperfect and twisted copy of the Real – like all your “creation” are imperfect and twisted copies of the Real Creation! I’m more than happy to leave this cave of illusion behind me.” Sally called back standing straight.

“Tell me Satansaloser, are you just having hard times hearing things or do you have problems with the comprehension? You’re not going anywhere – nor are you staying. You are going to vanish, you are going to not-be.” Melkor grinned wide.

“You can do whatever you wish to my material form, but my soul is created by Iluvatar himself and is not for you to decide on. My soul will leave this cave and return to the cosmos – and what would be more delightful than being able to leave this dungeon and join the eternal joy and harmony of Being so lacking in this mockery of mere existence you have managed to put up here?”

“And feisty you are? As you wish, loser.”

Sally’s clothes took an instant fire and just lighted off and what was left from under them was nothing – but small heaps of dust and ashes on the floor of the dungeon where she had just stood.

“Whatever your creation, that is what you are now!” Melkor bellowed.

Slowly the two heaps started glowing and withering little by little. The horrified Maiar looked on as the heaps grew smaller and smaller finally vanishing with a puff. There was a thin line of bluish smoke that lingered for a short moment above where the heaps had been, but it did not go anywhere, but rather just dissolved into the air. There was a horrendous cry in the air and then it was all black and quiet.

Sally was the first innocent loser of the experiment.

The living:

Eomer of the Rohirrim - An associate of Ossë, speciality: lochs and ponds, great alliance with frogs
elronds_daughter - A spirit of no-nonsense
Macalaure - Carmótar, the Maia of housework
Shastanis Althreduin - A spirit of water
Loslote - A spirit of sunshine and rainbows
Kitanna - A spirit of all things unimaginative
wilwarin538 - Belongs to Vána, cares for all the small garden dwelling, winged creatures
Nessa Telrunya - The patron of town criers across the world
Pitchwife - Tender of Oromë's dogs
Inziladun - A vassal of Námo, serving as a warden in Mandos
Rikae - A spirit in charge of silicon & static electricity
Boromir88 - A Maia of Mandos, the interpretter of dreams
A Little Green - A spirit in charge of aliens, hummingbirds and farming
Blind Guardian -A spirit of evil ways
Skip Spence - A follower of Aule with an avid interest in behavioural sciences
Mänwe - A spirit of short acquintances
Valier - A handmaiden of Yavanna, collecting the morning dew from the petals of flowers
Legate of Amon Lanc - A Maia associated with the unfathomed depths of the world's seas but also with the waters surrounding Arda in the outer space...
Thinlómien - A maia who lives in Lórien and paints the dreams of those sleeping there
Aganzir - Aka. Firebeck, a spirit of fire
Ozban - Yavanna's underling with inferiority complex. Caretaker of undergrowth and small bushes in general, especially blackberries
Caílin - A spirit of secrecy
Kath - A spirit of nostalgy

The dead:

Satansaloser2005 - (Innocent) A spirit of ducks, muffins and cookies; reduced to ashes and dust on D1

Night 2 has fallen.


Gifteds and baddies, your turn. The rest is silence.


Day2 starts normally in 24 hours (23 hours and 42 minutes to be more exact)

[skip spence]

Alright then, trying to catch up again.

I've a feeling I'm getting unduly influenced by Lommy for making that list but since I'm pressed for time she at least is off the hook.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Clearly the Swedes feel safe around their reindeer.

Hehe, funny but not quite true. Almost hit one at 70 km/h just a few days back.

Will go for one of the people with votes. When is DL, in 10 min?

[skip spence]

++Sally

Just got this icky feeling about her misrepresenting my words. That's the best I've got now.

[skip spence]

For such a large village it's eerily quiet, isn't it?

Backtracking a bit since there's precious little new.

Originally Posted by Agan

And as Lommy said the sooner we get a wolf, the better. If the seer dreams of one at an early stage (ie before we've lynched any), she should probably consider if it's worth coming out and getting rid of the double kills.

Originally Posted by Pitch

Yep, the double Night-Kill sucks for us, and getting rid of it is imperative. I'm not sure if I'd like to risk the Seer for it - as long as the Ranger is still alive, maybe it's worth it. But it's not like an open Seer reveal is the only way to catch a wolf, so we should all do our best and not rely on the Seer to risk their neck for us.

I'd agree with Pitch here. The Seer is our strongest piece, our Queen, and should not be sacrificed lightly. It's up to the Seer to decide what to do if he/she catches a wolf or already has done so, but if it were me, I'd wait with the open reveal unless I faced the gallows. The Seer must however be very careful to not leave any false trails should he/she happen to get killed. If we lose the Seer and the trail points to an innocent, we're in big trouble.

Need to sleep soon. I probably won't return until close to the DL.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Who are you and what have you done with our beloved over-verbose Rikae?

Something like this:
IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL

I can't make it out... must be some kind of code or something. If only I had the time, but alas, that's just what we don't have, isn't it? A few millennia just isn't enough.

And Mackie-Pie, I haven't voted yet. And could you take these glasses into the kitchen for me? While you're there, check whether those pastries - er, players - in the oven are done...