WW: LXXXV - The Lost Philosophers of Maiar

[Shastanis Althreduin]

While I don't necessarily agree with lynching Nessa today, her one post so far today, in which she votes, doesn't make me very comfortable at all.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Shasta

While I don't necessarily agree with lynching Nessa today, her one post so far today, in which she votes, doesn't make me very comfortable at all.

I can relate.


EDIT: wow, x-ed with Legate and Agan's novel.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nessa Telrunya

Because what he says sounds disturbingly wolvish, if you look at it from that perspective.

I'd like you to elaborate on that tomorrow. Yes Legate is silly at times, but I think there are arguments that speak for his innocence.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

what makes you think that the Cobbler would anyway know any better than the rest of us innocents whether he should or should not suspect Nessa and Inzil?

If you want, I can make you a list of ways the wolves can tell the cobbler who they are. Or Mac can.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

The problem with that reasoning is that everything is disturbingly wolvish if you read it with the assumption that it is.

Seconded.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

While I don't necessarily agree with lynching Nessa today, her one post so far today, in which she votes, doesn't make me very comfortable at all.

Me neither, but in spite of it we shouldn't lynch her today.

[Macalaure]

A side remark - this is nothing about agreeing or disagreeing with conclusions you make, but what makes you think that the Cobbler would anyway know any better than the rest of us innocents whether he should or should not suspect Nessa and Inzil?

Boro is a smart person, so he would undoubtedly have reached the same conclusions as I. (and then acted according to his role)

More seriously: If we assume that the cobbler has some decent idea who the wolves are, he could have assumed with high probability (from the suspected wolves' behaviour) that both Inzil and Nessa were/are innocent.


Everyone: Don't forget that five evil votes are against us toDay. There have been villages in the past where the baddies shrewdly took advantage of this. We should make up our minds who to vote for carefully and not spread it too much.

My preferences:
Tier I: Skip
Tier II: Shasta or Cailín
Tier III: Pitch
Tier IV and higher: there are some here I still suspect, but I'd really rather not go there toDay.

[Macalaure]

Maybe I'm suffering from the mentioned desire of wanting to see suspicious behaviour by a suspect, but Shasta's case of Mänwe looks like he's pushing for another silent scapegoat now that Nessa is falling out of favour at last, and his case of Cailín like some mild wolf-on-wolfing.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Maybe I'm suffering from the mentioned desire of wanting to see suspicious behaviour by a suspect, but Shasta's case of Mänwe looks like he's pushing for another silent scapegoat now that Nessa is falling out of favour at last, and his case of Cailín like some mild wolf-on-wolfing.

To be honest, this attitude is starting to irritate me. If you happen to be suspected by Mac, you can't do anything without being suspicious, apparently. And apparently analyzing someone whom no one else has even bothered to consider is suspicious. Shoot me now.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

To be honest, this attitude is starting to irritate me. If you happen to be suspected by Mac, you can't do anything without being suspicious, apparently.

I know exactly what you mean.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

And apparently analyzing someone whom no one else has even bothered to consider is suspicious. Shoot me now.

Well, no, that isn't suspicious. But it's remarkable that both your analyses lead to a negative conclusion on the analysee (Mänwe's more than Cailíns), which makes me wonder whether the conclusion wasn't reached beforehand and the analysis made to fit. Truth to be told, that reminds me of the Shastawolf I've seen in a few games. Not exactly happy memories.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Legate

Now the more I am looking at this, even though I dislike being "unsporty", won't people really like to vote for Cailín?

Yes (I won't really like it). There can be good reasons to vote somebody who's not coming back that Day but has posted, but somebody we know can't get online at all that Day? No.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Pitch

Yes (I won't really like it). There can be good reasons to vote somebody who's not coming back that Day but has posted, but somebody we know can't get online at all that Day? No.

I agree. Even if Cailín is a wolf, she will have three fellows we can go after.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

What information?

The names the cobbler had sent to the wolves.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Boro

And with that, I'm completely caught up. Nice to see I've been stamped, labeled, and filed away. This is for posterity, so be honest, is anyone going to listen to me at this point or should I just slide on into the background and make a vote?

If you're innocent, speak. I won't vote you toDay without having heard you (and I may very well not after that); promise.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Everyone: Don't forget that five evil votes are against us toDay. There have been villages in the past where the baddies shrewdly took advantage of this. We should make up our minds who to vote for carefully and not spread it too much.

Exactly. There are still 14 of us, 5-9, so we could be worse off - and everybody except Rikae still have their retraction.

My preferences:
Tier I: Skip
Tier II: Shasta or Cailín
Tier III: Pitch

I want to take a look at Shasta. Will do it now, assuming I have the time (you know how I am).

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

No I didn't. You said you couldn't see good enough a reason for me to kill Oz on night 1, and I answered that the unlikeliness of it would have been a good reason for me to do it. But never mind, I was just wondering for a while if you were trying to drop a hint.

Ah, now I see, I misread it. Okay, whatever. Just hope you haven't been LOOKING for a hint...

Originally Posted by Macalaure

My preferences:
Tier I: Skip
Tier II: Shasta or Cailín
Tier III: Pitch
Tier IV and higher: there are some here I still suspect, but I'd really rather not go there toDay.

Now the more I am looking at this, even though I dislike being "unsporty", won't people really like to vote for Cailín? As it mostly looks like the best if I look at my suspects, considering Greenie and Agan also mentioned considering voting her, if I am not mistaken...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Ah, now I see, I misread it. Okay, whatever. Just hope you haven't been LOOKING for a hint...



Now the more I am looking at this, even though I dislike being "unsporty", won't people really like to vote for Cailín? As it mostly looks like the best if I look at my suspects, considering Greenie and Agan also mentioned considering voting her, if I am not mistaken...

Honestly, I think more people have said Skip looks like a better choice.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Just hope you haven't been LOOKING for a hint...

Ah but I have. I kept wishing the wolves would try and hint to me because of my day 1 behaviour, but that was pretty much impossible because I didn't have the necessary information.

Now the more I am looking at this, even though I dislike being "unsporty", won't people really like to vote for Cailín?

I don't particularly suspect her, it's more like "I don't think these people are wolves, ergo the wolves have to be some of these, Cailín is slipping under my radar hmm..."

So if Cailín is a wolf Shasta is too, and if skip is, so is Legate?

[A Little Green]

I'm slightly worried about getting too paranoid. As in, someone sharing my suspicion instantly makes me feel better about the suspected person, and worse about the one who agrees with me. Gah. I'm having second thoughts on Nessa but I agree that we shouldn't vote for her toDay.

Actually. I went through the votes once again, with a hypothetical assumption that Nessa is a wolf, to see if any patterns came up. (Nessa was an easy one to begin with, since she has been suspected a lot and been in danger of being lynched thrice, so any connections with other players are more likely to show up.) What I concluded was this: If Nessa is a wolf, Rikae is one too (or else a cobbler), and vice versa. Rikae's strange retraction on Day 2 from Lottie to Inzil (both innocent, both promising lynch candidates) would make perfect sense if she was trying to save Nessa. At the time of Rikae's first vote, Nessa was on the lead and Lottie looked like the most likely runner-up for the lynch. Then Lommy gave Inzil a second vote, and Rikae switches to Inzil, bringing him to a tie with Nessa. Nessa's suspicion of Rikae and voting for her twice doesn't necessarily speak against this as Rikae was suspected by virtually no one else and faced no danger of being lynched.

However, we can't conclude anything until one of them is proven innocent or guilty. Hmm, I think I'll go have another look at the votes, to see if other connetions like this come up.


EDIT: Ouch, x-ed since Mac's 537. (Also, I almost typed "lynched since...")

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

And with that, I'm completely caught up. Nice to see I've been stamped, labeled, and filed away. This is for posterity, so be honest, is anyone going to listen to me at this point or should I just slide on into the background and make a vote?

Seriously Boro I don't think you can blame anyone but yourself. You know what you've been doing.
And go on and speak, I at least am going to listen to you if you turn out innocent.

[Boromir88]

As you wish Agan.

Treatise on were-wolvery

This matter has troubled this almighty, powerful, exemplar Council of excellency since the dawn of time. This is truly why I thought I was summoned to this great and wise council, not to go gallobantering around, killing fellow council members but looking for werewolves. We know everything there is to know about Werewolves, yet we can't seem to find and kill them. So, now that we are in a dire situation that is the most dire. Let me begin.

There are two forms of werewolfus lupinius. The traditional werewolves of legend. These are humans for approximately 27 days of the month. But the day of the full moon, and the day before, and the day after, these humans transform into hairy, fanged, clawed, and beastly monstrosities called, werewolves. There is also the werewolves of Melkor's creation. Melkor sends evil spirits to inhabit the body of wolves, making them almost like superduper wolves, and really really powerful. The werewolves haunting this council seem to be even more deadly, since they are some strange hybrid of the legendary werewolves and evil spirits in bodies of wolves. Since, these werewolves do not need the full moon to transform, they appear to be able to mutate during the night.

And during the night, their animalistic instincts are incontrollable. They must feed. They must eat and only the blood of humans will satisfy their curse. If you can really say they are truly ever "satisfied." For each night they must always eat, it is never enough. Once they are through with one group of people, they will move on. They always move on, unless we can stop them. So, how do you stop them?

1. Pure Silver. This supposedly works the best, although I've never tried it and I have yet to encounter a werewolf. I have no idea how effective pure silver would work.

2. A vampire bodyguard. Werewolves hate vampires and vice versa. If you have vampire bodyguards the werewolves will most likely leave you alone. Werewolves desire those they call the "hot ones," vampires are "cold ones."

Preferably, 1 + 2 work the best. That is if you have a vampire body guard, who then is equipped with pure silver weapons. This way if the werewolves do dare attack you, your vampire body guards could kill them.

3. Killing the host body.

This option is the most difficult to perform, because it's almost like a blind witch hunt. Those fo us who are not werewolves, do not transform at night, we go to sleep. So, the only way we can kill them (if 1 and 2 are not viable options) is during the Day, when these werewolves are actually back in their human form. It's the most difficult because they leave no trace to their night transformations. It just happens spontaneously each and every night. It's not like we can go into Nessa's room and find wolf hairs all over the bed (although I bet you would). And you can't demand Agan open her mouth to check the size of her fangs. Everyone knows she has large, pointy fangs (and long long claws), anyway.

In fact. Did I ever tell you the time Agan scratched me with her claws? Granted I actually asked her to because I wondered what was a better at scratching, bear claws or Agan's. I think Agan's probably worked out the best, judging solely from memory and how well they scratched the itch on my arm.

Thus this is the conundrum we are in. 4 wolves remaining, 1 person on their side, and I don't know who ever else is left trying to lynch them. Decisions decisions.

I hope this has been a most helpful and beneficial post of my usual standards. I would hate to be a complete obstructionist for this whole council, but we all have a part to play, eh?

Now we get to the topic of Balrog's wings. Since we all know that Balrogs DO have wings. Sir JRR Tolkien tells us this, the question is are they literal or figuritive wings? If literal, are they functional in flight or serve another purpose? The only reason to have wings is for flight. Seriously, penguins and emus should all just not exist because they defy the my laws saying wings are only useful in flight. Sorry, Lommy, but it's true. So, if the Balrog had literal wings he'd have them for flight. However, all Balrogs who have died have fallen from great heights, and been killed by falling from tall places. This means Balrogs obviously can't fly, or they wouldn't just keep falling and killing themselves. In conclusion, Balrogs must have metaphorical wings. Yes? No. No. They have metaphorical wings of shadow. Shadow being the key word. Shadows have no physical presense, they have no aerodynamic ability. Thus wings of shadow are not very useful for flying, but if they were not wings of shadow then the Balrog would be able to fly. And there it is, Balrogs have literal wings of shadow.

++Nessa

[A Little Green]

Thanks, Boro. Very helpful.

[Boromir88]

I think I cross-posted.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Skip

So Mac, you said you'd spell out why you find me so suspicious.

Rikae's computer is in repair, so we're sharing mine - I didn't get to yet. If you're still alive toMorrow, I will.

Too many people I suspect somewhat are suggesting Shasta, so I'd rather refrain from him.

Since Agan went for Pitch, I will most likely, too.

Legate's post is too big for me to read 10 minutes before deadline.

(back to Rikae)

(edit: Boro's post, not Legate's - my bad. No harm done, then. )

[Aganzir]

Thanks Boro. I guess this confirmed my suspicions. Will read it once the day ends.

wilwa - ed
Nessa - Legate
Agan - Pitch
Boro - Nessa

Left: ed, Mac, Shasta, Pitch, Rikae, Green, skip, Mänwe, Legate, Cailín?

[Rikae]

It's going to be amusing if Nessa does turn out to be a wolf and I get lynched because of it. Greenie's reasoning makes perfect sense and makes her look more innocent in my eyes because of it, and is totally wrong. I was paying no attention to Nessa, and switched to Inzil because I saw a chance to lynch what, in his last post, looked even more like a wolf.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Agan

Ah but I have. I kept wishing the wolves would try and hint to me because of my day 1 behaviour, but that was pretty much impossible because I didn't have the necessary information.

What information?

Also, don't play the martyr Boro, convince us that we are mistaken about you if that is the case. For myself, I'm having second thoughts on the identity of the cobbler as well..


EDIT: x-ed with Rikae