Game Thread: WW LXXXVI - The Halls of Mandos

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Lom

Psst. Try highlighting it.

I did.

Originally Posted by Lom

Still thinking about the Nog thing. Mostly something like: if the wolves caught something that I didn't and thought Shasta was a lover, it doesn't mean they killed him because he looked like a seer to them. Ergo, Nogrod doesn't look so fishy. Makes more sense?

Having dinner now, but then I should leave you and vote.

Got your point. Thanks! Also, dinner at 10.30 PM?

Nog's reaction to Agan and Shasta being lovers looks fishy, can't pinpoint it but there's something really off in that post.


EDIT: x-ed with Boro

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Boro

Greenie will be elevated from Koala to Swarm of Killer bees if she votes for Nessa. That looks like an attempt to stay out of the main confrontations going on today and make a vote for someone who is either not likely to be lynched or a bandwagon victim if people start getting cold feet about Nog, Phantom or Glirdy. I'm understanding the uncomfortabality about Nog and Mith, because I'm feeling the same way. What I'm not understanding Greenie, is why that's not strong enough to earn your vote, and thus why Nessa? I know you said her vote bothered you yesterday, but today there's been enough shenanigans between Nog, Phantom and Mith that I think is suspicious enough.

Nessa is the one I have the most solid unease with, based, I admit, largely on her very strange vote yesterDay. As for Mith and Nog - Mith I'm just totally at a loss with and therefore wouldn't like to vote, and Nog is more confusing than downright wolfy. Or was, more like, because he's seriously giving me the creeps now. And I don't really see how voting for Nessa would be more suspicious than voting, say, Nog who seems to be quite a common suspect (ie. quite easy for a wolf to jump on if he is, in fact, innocent).


EDIT: x-ed with Lomz

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Got your point. Thanks! Also, dinner at 10.30 PM?

Blame Agan the cook.

Okay, Boro has a fair point about Glirdy looking like a cobbler. That means I'm actually not going to vote him, because I think the wolves are our primary target. The same logic also saves Phantom and Ang from my vote toDay.

And I'm not really sure if Lottie isn't just a rather confused and possibly slightly lazy or time-limited ordo.

So

++Wilwa

I'm aware this is not the most reasoned of all votes, but call it a gut-feeling. Read her post where she quotes Boro. It's just somehow smug, the tone, she gives the impression that she is slightly less confused than the rest of us, which she would be if she only entered the game after nice Nightly briefing by her pack. Also, the wolves have more reason to enjoy the confusion than us, because after all, their objective is just to slaughter while we really need to watch out for what we're shooting at.


edit: xed with Greenie

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Nog's reaction to Agan and Shasta being lovers looks fishy, can't pinpoint it but there's something really off in that post.

Originally Posted by Lommy

edit: xed with Nog who sounds really rather scary!

etc. etc. etc.

I'd appreciate some real points to refute before I go to sleep than this wishy-washiness which just piles up into common knowledge all those who don't actually read the thread but just vote offhand stick with.

I have nothing against dying after a decent fight with crafty wolves & cobblers or misguided ordos, but that is just plain annoying.


EDIT: x'd with Lommies & Greenie

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

etc. etc. etc.

I'd appreciate some real points to refute before I go to sleep than this wishy-washiness which just piles up into common knowledge all those who don't actually read the thread but just vote offhand stick with.

Originally Posted by Greenie

Well past bed-time, once again.

++ Nog

I don't need to underline this, do I?

But well, like Ang, tp and Fea have already said, gaining a chance to enter the Mandos thread would be interesting indeed.

Speaking of which... I have noticed some of you guys speak of people peeking at the dead-thread prematurely is more or less understandable and kind of obvious people do it (tp even admitted doing that, which actually fits well with my thought of him being the cobbler). And looking at the number of views there (182) thus far strongly suggests it's not done only by the mods and now two players, added with random 'Downers just curious what the thread is about.

So let me strongly disagree and protest.

Keep away from it. Really.

Looking there is unsportsmanlike and bad gaming. And what's the joy of winning if you gain it by deceit?


Some suspicions (and hopefully reasons to trust) coming forwards in a moment or two.

[Nogrod]

So my take on things so far.

Starting with the more or less obvious.

Aganzir & Shasta = Beren and Lúthien

I believe it.

As I was afraid of toDay after connecting the dots: Shasta panicked because of one suspicion because he knew he had a dream-role and his lynching would be bad both for his once-in-a-lifetime game and for the village as it's quite improbable Mänwewas the seer (and if he was, he couldn't probably tell him much when returning being lynched on D1). I still wonder why he was that panicky, but that's the only reasonable explanation - which we will learn about toMorrow. If this is a sham Shasta will not come back.

Also, the way Aganzir behaved fits in nicely. She jumped on me for understandable, even if wrong reasons. And like lovers do, they don't accept their loved one made a mistake so it had to be someone else doing it. It looks quite obvious to me - on a level things can be obvious in a ww-game... Well, at least it makes sense.


Uhh, I see Agan has made a huge post... continuing in a moment. I think we need to agree on few things so I'd better check it first.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nog

I have noticed some of you guys speak of people peeking at the dead-thread prematurely is more or less understandable and kind of obvious people do it (tp even admitted doing that, which actually fits well with my thought of him being the cobbler).

I don't follow that point at all. The fact that I clicked on the thread right when Rikae opened it and being made aware of my mistake thanks to her opening lines... How does that indicate anything at all?

Originally Posted by Nog

So let me strongly disagree and protest.

Keep away from it. Really.

Looking there is unsportsmanlike and bad gaming. And what's the joy of winning if you gain it by deceit?

Now here you're just agreeing with me. I said earlier that I gave my word not to read the thread and I intend to honor my word, and that I'm very paranoid about being put at a disadvantage because of it (i.e. I'll be completely ticked if I suspect it's being done).

Anyway... Back to your earlier post- You still haven't responded to what I said here. It seems to me you started off your suspicions of me by reaching big time and now you're building further assumptions based upon the opinion that you formed through the initial sloppy grasping.

[the phantom]

Ha! Thanks Agan! Basically you've confirmed in my mind what I had been thinking about the kill- that insinuating that Shasta was suspected by the Wolves to be any specific Gifted is somewhat insulting to Shasta and the intelligence with which I am certain he would play such a role. It made no sense to me that the Wolves would look for Lover hints from a Shasta-Lover, nor for obvious Seer behavior from a Seer-Shasta, for that would be to say that the Wolves thought him to be rather dense.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Also, the way Aganzir behaved fits in nicely. She jumped on me for understandable, even if wrong reasons. And like lovers do, they don't accept their loved one made a mistake so it had to be someone else doing it. It looks quite obvious to me - on a level things can be obvious in a ww-game... Well, at least it makes sense.

I can only refer you to the post I made recently - my suspicion of you had nothing to do with Shasta's opinion. He was suspicious of the phantom, I wasn't. Really what are you thinking, that we're one mind split between two bodies? No. We just knew of each other's innocence, that's all.

And please consider what you say. You're seriously being rude.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Yeah, but... Shasta actually did go out of his way to joke about being Lúthien.

Which depended on your being Beren (granted, the wolves obviously couldn't know it unless you're one yourself), and anybody who's ever played with you two shouldn't have thought there was something out of ordinary. I doubt they took it seriously, therefore I think his death has more to do with Nog (either getting rid of a possible seer or trying to frame him).

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Aganzir to Nerwen

Which depended on your being Beren (granted, the wolves obviously couldn't know it unless you're one yourself), and anybody who's ever played with you two shouldn't have thought there was something out of ordinary. I doubt they took it seriously, therefore I think his death has more to do with Nog (either getting rid of a possible seer or trying to frame him).

Agan please... come out from this fatalistic despair that blinds you as your loved one has died. I share your pessimism as to the game right now, but let's fight.

Don't you see the 1+1 = 2 here?

Shasta joked being the lover with Nerwen - and then when suspected freaked out in a way only catching attention. What did the wolves think? That he was indeed the lover, his joking banter in the beginning just nailing it to them? (actually I didn't remember that but now as Nerwen reminded me about it, I can see it very well) And of course they killed him and not Nerwen as it was not clear which one or was ot true wiht Nerw, but the two unrelated things both pointed into Shasta being a lover.

May I remind you that on my first post on D1 I said the wolves would love to do away with the lovers and the ranger first and that those people should stay out of the fray?

Well sadly they have been succesful.

And I'm not playing dumb. I think I have not been this sharp in a long time. Which doesn't mean I claim to know things in particular but that I have a hang of how this goes and that my central beliefs have been proved right (like your innocence form D1).

But we're only in the beginning of this game - as this time the game continues on two levels anyway.


EDIT x'd with Leg & Nerwen

[Nerwen]

A change of subject–

Originally Posted by Lommy

Awww, thanks. Trying to imply you're a cobbler, though?

Actually– even though there's not much need for a cobbler to hint in this game– that post looks a lot like he's doing just that. "Bingo! Nice work, my wolfish mistress!"

Which is another thing– there's been a surprising amount of what looks like signalling. And yet, in this game, why bother?

Edit:clarification.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Actually– even though there's not much need for a cobbler to hint in this game– that post looks a lot like he's doing just that. "Bingo! Nice work, my wolfish mistress!"

Which is another thing– there's been a surprising amount of what looks like signalling. And yet, in this game, why bother?

Edit:clarification.

Hm, interesting point. As for "why bother", it is true that the Cobblers can perfectly well wreak havoc on their own, but possibly, if they can do it, it is still better to have a "union" with the Wolves, sort of a "know your ally" thing. But it is true that it can be equally risky for them - that such hints can be spotted. In general I'd imagine that as a Wolf trying to find a Cobbler or vice versa, one would try subtler hints. But yes, well, maybe this was one sort of a bit too exposed hint (unless, of course, Nerwen is here trying to frame Boro or Lommy - and if it came to me, I would think more likely about the former). But anyway, going for now, will be back later to vote at least.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

False! As I said before, given this set up there is no purpose whatsoever to the Lovers hinting at one another. They already know each other, and it's extremely easy to prove their truthfulness (they COME BACK TO LIFE).

A Lover has no need to bluff or double-bluff, or hint or anything at all. A Lover in this game is simply an Ordo who rises from the grave, and is thus a PROVEN innocent. To say that Shasta was attempting any sort of Lover-based bluff I think is to misjudge his grasp of his role. (i.e. If I were a Wolf I wouldn't bother in the least trying to look for a Lover other than just looking for general jumpiness perhaps that might speak of a Gifted.)

Yeah, but... Shasta actually did go out of his way to joke about being Lúthien. So whether it made sense for him to try a double-bluff or not, it seems that's what he did. (I'm assuming Agan's telling the truth.)

So– was that what put the wolves on his trail? After all, nobody seemed to take it seriously at the time. And would that mean our wolves are showing great subtlety– or none whatever? ("Duuuh... well, he said he's Lúthien...")

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Speaking of which... I have noticed some of you guys speak of people peeking at the dead-thread prematurely is more or less understandable and kind of obvious people do it (tp even admitted doing that, which actually fits well with my thought of him being the cobbler). And looking at the number of views there (182) thus far strongly suggests it's not done only by the mods and now two players, added with random 'Downers just curious what the thread is about.

So let me strongly disagree and protest.

Keep away from it. Really.

Looking there is unsportsmanlike and bad gaming. And what's the joy of winning if you gain it by deceit?

Quite right– and all I can say is, whoever's been looking at the thread, it isn't me.

EDIT:X'd with many.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I have noticed some of you guys speak of people peeking at the dead-thread prematurely is more or less understandable and kind of obvious people do it (tp even admitted doing that, which actually fits well with my thought of him being the cobbler). And looking at the number of views there (182) thus far strongly suggests it's not done only by the mods and now two players, added with random 'Downers just curious what the thread is about.

I did the same as the phantom before the game started ("there's no harm reading the narration, there isn't any information yet"). I also stopped reading after the very first sentence, and haven't peeked in since. I don't think that tells anything about phantom whatsoever.

I think you're underestimating the honesty of the werewolf players. I just can't imagine anyone cheating.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I think you're underestimating the honesty of the werewolf players. I just can't imagine anyone cheating.

I hope I am. I truly hope that. But after my last account I can now see there are 201 views on the thread. A lot more than two players would make (add the mods & possible outsiders). And the general count over 200 just makes one think it's not possible without a host of people checking it regularly (the mods and one, then two dead ones do not form a host).

So just stay away from it! Please.

Let's play this honourably.


As a second thought, should Rikae ask the forum-mods if there is a way to find out who has been opening the dead-thread? They clearly have a counter that picks the number of visits, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem to see who were the people the number of visits come from?

I mean I'm ready to see a list from the visits there and to suggest disqualifying everyone who has been there. After the first posts maybe... as I understand I myself felt a temptation to look at the first narrations involved when there were no players in there yet. But I didn't blink. And no one should have as that is clearly prohibited.

So let's say, anyone who has visited the Dead-thread after Mänwe died should be banned from werewolf for a year or something? I think the site-mods could find that out.

I may be paranoid, but looking at the number of views there just feels awkwardly big thinking it's forbidden from everyone who'd be interested....

[Glirdan]

Okay, so my rehearsal was apparently cancelled, thus making me here. However, I do believe that I will be going out for supper very soon thus making me not here for a period of time again.

I'm just going to throw this out there now that I may vote completely at random or may not vote at all as I will not have nearly enough time to get myself all caught up on everything.

Okay, going to go back and skim quickly and hopefully post once more.

[Glirdan]

Originally Posted by Boro

Nerwen has asked Glirdan a fair question about what he meant by the Manwe-bandwagon. I'm interested in Glirdan's response, but also, earlier I was not vehemently going after Nog. The above is what it looks like when I go into attack mode. Do you see the difference now Glirdy?

And apparently someone is not reading the thread entirely. I did answer her, post #207. And please note that even though I used the word attack, I did say that it was an overstatement, and I quote (myself ironically lol) with the part in question bolded:

Boro - All day, his attack (okay, maybe that's a little too strong of a word...his, thoughts and ideas will suffice for this) on [/b]Nog[/b] just made no sense to me. Granted, Nog has me a little baffled, but that's not unusual. But Boro's has been pretty adamant about it....I don't know, something just feels off.

Originally Posted by phantom

That's easy. I wanted to kill Lommy, but at that point it was impossible, so I had to vote for someone else. I wanted to rule out a multi-lynch, so I just boosted the lead of Manwe who was already guaranteed to die. Why put Legate or Nog under threat with my vote when I suspected neither of them? The death of one person you haven't particularly suspected is much better than the double-lynching of two people you don't suspect.

I see your reasoning....but why not vote for Lommy anyways? Manwe's fate was already stamped, sealed and set for deployment to Mandos. Why not stick with your gut and vote Lommy whether or not she standed a chance of being lynched? Your vote would have only mattered if it would have been placed on someone for a double lynch, but by voting last and by voting Manwe, you made a very safe vote. I don't know but it seems fishy. I don't think it Wolfish because that would be too obvious, but I would not put it past a Cobbler phanty.

Originally Posted by Nog

I do agree with Legate that Mänwe was probably an innocent. Basically because there was no last minute rescue-operation going on. In this kind of a game the wolves would save their mate on D1 with no problems.

I'm not sure what I think of this, but somehting about it is not sitting right with me. Just because there appeared to be no last minute rescue-operation doesn't necessarily clear him of having been a Wolf. And looking back, there was the possibility of a wolf rescue mission, of none other then yourself. There were two votes, made by Ang and Nerwen, for Manwe that were made within ten minutes of each other. I doubt both of them are but I feel quite certain that at least one of them could be a Wolf with you. Very tempted to vote for you.

Originally Posted by Lommy

A badly grounded vote is not the same as a throwaway. And obviosuly it was not throwaway, in retrospect, it determined the whole voting outcome of the Day. Now we just hope Mänwë was a wolf but I wouldn't bet too much on that.

Fair enough.

[Nogrod]

And I really mean it.

If the forum-mods tell us x, y & z have been reading the dead thread after Mänwe died, then they should be modfired and banned from werewolf for a long time. And if that ouldn't happen, I would be the first to vote for them in every game for a while on D1 just because they're not decent people if they ever re-appeared in the games disregarding the scorn we all should make on them for betraying us.

Of course if everyone but me have been there then it's better I quit playing this game for a while.

Really, I crave to see what's in there and I'd love to experience that game, but really, people, patience...

Let's play by the rules! (and that's not against anyone in particular, but on the sheer numbers of views in there)


EDIT: x'd with Glirdy & Agan

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Let's play by the rules! (and that's not against anyone in particular, but on the sheer numbers of views in there)

I don't want to use the phrase Ang hates but I think your assumption doesn't bear up to some simple maths.

This thread has almost 8.3 views per post the dead thread has a smidgen over 7 views per post. So quite proportional..

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Agan

No. Or maybe yes but not right now. I'm getting tired of your aggression.

Now I'm really baffled - and I mean in general terms and not just this game. I mean I have heard a lot of people (oftentimes wolves but not everytime) claiming I am aggressive, game after game. But I don't think myself being that. Now this is a really good example of it.

So how is that aggressive? Please tell me.

And I mean really. I just don't understand it.

Okay I'm a non-native speaker, but I don't think I'm that wrong in thinking the above quote was not aggressive (about the discussion between me and Shasta, please look back to my previous posts where I stated my view on speculating about other peoples' guilt). Or does someone think it is aggressive? I really woud like to learn about that.

Or any other quote - or the vague impression-grabbing remark without a specific quote *cough Greenie cough* - people have made. I hate these memes people cling into when they have either nothing to say or their own evil agendas suggest them (or like with the case of Agan here are blinded by their loss to see the bigger picture).

With my experience I'd say it's basically the wolves who do that and make the less informed ordos follow them.


Well anyway, I need to make my list so as I can get to sleep as it is to late already now...


EDIT: x'd from my last post.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So let's say, anyone who has visited the Dead-thread after Mänwe died should be banned from werewolf for a year or something? I think the site-mods could find that out.

I may be paranoid, but looking at the number of views there just feels awkwardly big thinking it's forbidden from everyone who'd be interested....

Here's my assumption: when I'm playing WW I just leave the thread open and frequently refresh it as I'm doing things. That would jack up the view count since each time you hit refresh it counts as a page view (I think).

So how about instead of assuming people are cheating, we assume that the people who are allowed to look are looking very frequently, and that non-players are also following the discussion.

I'd rather assume the best of everyone than assume the worst. And if we find out post-game that somebody was cheating all along, we can certainly self-regulate without the need to get mods involved (like mod-firing). I know there have been multiple discussions about shutting down WW because of how non-Tolkien it is. I'd hate to involve them in this if we don't have to.

Originally Posted by Nog

I would be the first to vote for them in every game for a while on D1 just because they're not decent people if they ever re-appeared in the games disregarding the scorn we all should make on them for betraying us.

That's exactly what I meant by self-regulation. Firstly, I don't believe any of us would knowingly cheat. I say this because the sheer overwhelming amount of disappointment that would be heaped upon them by everybody else would be awful. I mean, EVERYBODY would be really, really saddened by that kind of behavior. Everybody here loves playing, and we all respect each other's opinions, and hope to stay in each other's high esteem. I can't imagine anybody would want to damage that by doing something as stupid (and traceable) as cheating.

Originally Posted by phantom

As far as Nog.... *sigh* He felt innocent to me all day yesterday, and even today he doesn't exactly scream "guilt" so much as he seems... something.... odd. I think I and others have demonstrated some flaws in his attacks, and honestly I'm started to get VERY irritated with the fact that he still hasn't responded to my initial questioning of his opinion on me, despite my prodding.

I hate agreeing with you. It's so fun to bicker. But I agree with you. I will almost definitely be voting for Nog today because I just don't trust him.

Originally Posted by Mith

This thread has almost 8.3 views per post the dead thread has a smidgen over 7 views per post. So quite proportional..

Yes! Thank you. Like I said, I'm really not concerned about cheaters because we can always alienate them mercilessly later. Ask anybody that's ever made me mad: I am AWESOME at making them feel guilty without even being obviously mean.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I did the same as the phantom before the game started ("there's no harm reading the narration, there isn't any information yet"). I also stopped reading after the very first sentence, and haven't peeked in since. I don't think that tells anything about phantom whatsoever.

I think you're underestimating the honesty of the werewolf players. I just can't imagine anyone cheating.

I did look at the narration before anyone died but I can't remember anything and haven't and won't look until properly entitled. But I don't see the point of hassling the mods because if I were to cheat I wouldn't sign in to do it and I prolly wouldn't use my own computer.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

I talk about the Dead Thread because I'm interested in it. Aren't you?

Well, I assume we all are, but there is little sense in speculating before we get there, right? Personally, I disapprove of talking about it, because I think we can have no information about it, at least until we are there or until somebody returns.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Mänwe is a cobbler? Surely. Perfectly possible. If he thought both me and Shasta were innocents that "fueling the flames" -comment that probably got him lynched would look like a cobblery one.

I said innocent, not ordo, or ordinary innocent. Meaning he's not a wolf (whom the others tried to save). I'm a bit puzzled of the way you try to make me look suspicious... Are you trying to make me suspect you? Well, no deal done.

I would paraphrase your own words: Are you trying to make US suspect YOU? This sounds like what they call "retcon" (for people who might not know what it means, you can look it up in some online dictionary for sure). I mean, since when has Cobbler been "innocent"? Don't give us that: Rubbish and more rubbish. No, I don't trust Nog, not after this on top of everything. This-is-weird.

I have similar feelings about Lommy, maybe the whole clan is somehow bad in this game. Well, I don't know about Greenie - she is rather smoothly posting, but perhaps that's just it? No, anyway, I just feel bad about those.

Likewise, my opinion about Lottie has not changed for the better since yesterDay, although I'm still wondering if she is just the Cobbler. Possibly if I were to name three Cobblers, it could be Lottie, Nog and either Phantom or Lommy. Although I think it's more likely that Phantom'd be a Wolf, if anything. I'm not sure if I have ever encountered him in Cobbler-mode, but I would somehow expect him to behave differently, thinking of that.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Legate - not having played with Manwe before, I was unaware that he was a particularly frequent scapegoat; while I regret having played a major role in lynching an unoriginal target, I must say he clearly picked the right game...perhaps he'd booked his bed in Mandos early.

Well, agreed. And I know that many people here wouldn't know about this history of Mänwe... but that does not have any impact on the game itself, of course: Wolves would still lynch him because he's an easy target, etc., etc... so the fact that you didn't know about this has obviously no influence on you voting him or not, whatever your real motives were.

Originally Posted by Ang

I agree that Glirdan's comparison involving seers was unwise, but it seems to me not necessarily malicious. I must say that I'm known Glirdan as a Cobbler so often that I have illogical and unmathematical resistance to imagining him in that role yet again. I lean towards incautious innocent.

Anybody can post stuff like that, though I would somehow think of the generally more cautious players (among whom I count Glirdan) not being so careless.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Where art thou gone? The day is bare,
the sunlight dark, and cold the air!
Shastanis, where went thy feet?
O wayward star! O maiden sweet!
O flower of Elfland all too fair
for mortal heart! The woods are bare!

Congrats, wolves. You killed Lúthien.

Oh, my. Well, means that we at least get info back from Mandos. Note: it does come to effect only the Day after, so the folks in Mandos (three after we lynch, unless we make some mega-lynch) will still get to vote one of them before Shasta returns, right?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Well of course we have a phabbler.

I mean I was thinking about it yesterDay and then a bit during the Night - as this time no looking back to the thread by Night will be futile as you don't die as such.

Basically he was talking sense, making good points, being reasonable... well what else do you expect from tp? And I actually thought him a good and helpful ordinary innocent there and then.

I cannot once again agree on this, this once again seems false, "retcon". I would say that Phantom is never "reasonable" when he is innocent - if such a word would be used for his innocence, then carelessly at most, but not consciously, because let's face it, he's NOT. He is "inventive" in his own way, but not "reasonable". I think a normal, reasonable (sic) person would never use that word in the context you do, i.e. as a sign of innocence of tp, which is about to be reevaluated. (I don't know if you who are reading can understand what I mean by this, but simply it is, I think Nog is using very weird language and on very weird occassions, which he seems making up.) This sounds to me like once again Cobbler Nog pulling on straws.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

However, I've just seen Aganzir's revelation. Weird if true. Why would Shasta have been so unsubtle? No, wait, I can answer my own question. The excitement of being a Gifted gives one a great desire to boast, and makes one liable to deploy the overly confident double-bluff (cf WW II, my disastrous outing as Guardian; sorry if I'm boring you, whippersnappers).

Why are you even questioning that? I mean, it would be far weirder for somebody to say "I am a Lover and my darling is dead", since we'd learn the other Day anyway. Unless the person was killed or something.

All in all - not much time, once again, alas. But I am going to make a list of whom I suspect and whom I might choose from toDay, and decide whom to vote soon.

EDIT: x-ed with two last posts at the previous page and with everybody after...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Nogrod - most likely Cobbler. His posts smell of being false, but up to the point that no Wolf would really do that. Or, if you don't mind me saying it, I think no Wolf would be so silly.
Aganzir - trusting her Lover-claim (and pity her, though well, you'll get to be with your lover in Mandos also)
Glirdan - well he has been active, on the other hand, few questions have been raised around him with which I concur, but nothing particularly striking yet
A Little Green - like I said, smooth posting, not suspicious, which of course might just be it, but... whatever.
elronds_daughter - hm, one of the people I need to look better at, there was something troubling me about her, but not sure what. Though it wasn't anything striking, probably. Maybe just the impression.
Nerwen - has managed to be rather under my radar, to be honest. She was one of the Mänwe bandwagon, and not in the most convinient of places, I think I should look at her better as soon as I have a bit more time.
Loslote - really weird, I keep to thinking that she might be a Cobbler, most likely (once again, for a Wolf a bit too messy style)
Wilwa - also managed to be under my radar, though this is her first Day, so basically...
Lommy - I still think she is really behaving strangely, more possibly a Cobbler
Nessa - erm, I could maybe ask, what was it with the vote for me yesterDay? I mean, yes, random, half-joky retaliation, sure, why not, but it's the generall merry-go-nothing tone which seemed peculiar to me. Also a candidate for some sinister figure, in fact.
Blind Guardian - more info needed?
satansaloser2005 - also not enough data.
the phantom - I am unsure about him, on Day 1 he seemed fine, now his posting has been more strange, although lately again there are posts which gave me better feeling about him. But I don't know.
Boromir88 - I don't know what to make of him, now it has occured to me, though, that he does not show the most typical sign of a Borowolf, that is, being very jumpy while being suspected. Though on the other hand, he hasn't been under any strong suspicion much this far.
Mithalwen - no real suspicion now
Anguirel - this fellow is really interesting, I mean, extraordinary. Most curious, is basically the best I can say in relation to him. His reply concerning the Mänwe-bandwagon did not really prove anything, but his tone was, well, let me put it this way - at least he bothered to reply. So...
Fea - she has posted very little, from a few things in her posts, I had a strange feeling and was wondering, but in any case, I am not suspecting her enough to vote her now

Well, so this is it for the time being... I'll see about my voting yet. It is possible that I might stay up a bit later and try to finish the studybook I am reading, and therefore vote a bit later as well. But maybe not, depends how tired I feel. But I will definitely check back a bit later still.