What did they think?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by LadyBrooke

Welcome to the forums! Refreshing to have a new member that is (presumably, based on the name, long coherent post, and the fact that you're not trying to sell anything) not a spam bot.

I seconf this!

Originally Posted by Brooke

Your memory serves you well. Sauron, as well as Saruman, were both Maiar of Aule. He did have utopian desires...one of the things I find interesting, is that in spite of the typical portrayal of Tolkien's works as black and white, Tolkien wrote (in one of his letters, which I am too lazy to go look up at 2 a.m...) that he did not write absolute evil. Thoughts?

I remember suggesting in some other thread that not a single person is perfectly black or perfectly white. I gave Morgoth as an example (he wasn't evil at the start, and before he marred the Ainulindale he played a role in making it, and therefore Ea) and someone quoted Tolkien's letter that said that Morgoth is indeed not pure black.

Originally Posted by Brooke

To slightly answer the original question, I find that the orcs in the book are not nearly as filthy or barbarian like as the ones in the movie. They do have leaders, and a somewhat complex leadership system...of course, there are the hints of cannibalism, but even those tend to be somewhat complex, such as the banter between Shagrat and Gorbag about who should go in the pot....

Agreed and seconded. Also, Gorbag has quite a personality - an orc philosopher? Grishnakh is another interesting one as well.

Originally Posted by Väinämöinen

I have always wondered more about Sauron and the orcs. After all, Morgoth created the orcs as a race, and Sauron was of a different temperament. Does anyone know of any specific passages from the Lord of the Rings or Unfinished Tales that mentions Sauron's view of the matter?

I remember a passage about the Witch King commanding a futile assault on Minas Tirith, ordering the orcs to a sure death, just to feel through the defenses of the city.

A lot of orcish atttacks are based on numbers - there are more of us so we just run forward and drown you, even though many of us will be killed in the process.