What did they think?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Väinämöinen

I have always wondered more about Sauron and the orcs. After all, Morgoth created the orcs as a race, and Sauron was of a different temperament. Does anyone know of any specific passages from the Lord of the Rings or Unfinished Tales that mentions Sauron's view of the matter?

First, let me echo the others in welcoming you to the Downs!

Sauron apparently looked on the Orcs as nothing more than a tool. There is a passage from The Two Towers that seems to reflect his view of them.
Though he knew Shelob took them for food, he wasn't concerned.

And Orcs, they were useful slaves, but he had them in plenty. If now and again Shelob caught them to stay her appetite, she was welcome: he could spare them.

Shelob's Lair

Looks as though Sauron didn't care about Orcs at all, beyond their service to him.

Originally Posted by Väinämöinen

It's just that the creation of the orcs seems to me such a great cruelty and perversion that it could only have originated with Morgoth. Sauron no doubt found them useful, but the question is if he would have gone out of his way to invent them in the first place, but who can say.

As for the "maker" of Orcs, The Silmarillion seems to make it clear that they were the design of Morgoth.

....thus did Melkor breed the hideous race of the Orcs in envy and mockery of the Elves...

Of the Coming of the Elves

[Galadriel55]

Tolkien compares Aule and Morgoth in the Valaquenta (The Silmarillion):

Melkor was jealous of him, for Aule was most like himself in thought and powers; and there was long strife between them, in which Melkor ever marred or undid the works of Aule, and Aule grew weary in repairing the tumults and disorders of Melkor. Both, also, desired to make things of their own that should be new and unthougt of by others, and delighted in the praise of their skill. But Aule remained faithful to Eru and submitted all that he did to his will; and he did not envy the works of others, but sought and gave counsel. Whereas Melkor spent his spirit in envy and hate, until at last he could make nothing save in mockery of the thought of others, and all their works he destroyed if he could.

So indeed the making of the Dwarves cannot be compared to the making of the Orcs. Aule a) made his own creation and b) gave it up for Eru. Melkor a) marred Elves and b) did the most hateful deed to Eru (there's also a quote about this but I can't find it).

What did Morgoth think of Orcs? Probably he didn't really care about them very much (like Sauron) - he had plenty to spare.

[LadyBrooke]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

As for the "maker" of Orcs, The Silmarillion seems to make it clear that they were the design of Morgoth.

To clarify - the question I was trying to answer was not who made the Orcs - Morgoth is of course the one who did, but rather I interpreted the original question as asking would Sauron have been opposed or unwilling to make servants of his own, if Morgoth had not already made them, which was what I was getting at with the Nazgul - clearly, Sauron has no problem creating his own servants.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

TSo indeed the making of the Dwarves cannot be compared to the making of the Orcs. Aule a) made his own creation and b) gave it up for Eru. Melkor a) marred Elves and b) did the most hateful deed to Eru (there's also a quote about this but I can't find it).

Well, technically, compared means to note both similarities and differences between things...so, they can be compared. They're not the exact same thing of course, but then again, what is in this mythology. The thing I was driving at, is that both of them wanted something of their own. The difference, of course, lies in how they handled it when confronted with their crime, and what they made them out of. However, they both rebel against Eru, but Aule repents.

And what is a creation? Could the orcs not be called creations of Morgoth, as he did in fact create them from elves? Whether the original material is elves or whatever Aule made his out of, the end result is a new race. Of course, that's not even considering the fact that Tolkien never made up his mind about how the orcs came into being - in the earliest myths, in BoLT, they're made from stone and slime. At various other places, they're bred from animals (Morgoth's Ring), men, maiar....

[Eruhen]

I would probably hesitate to call the Orcs a 'creation' of Morgoth. I have a feeling that the Professor would feel the same way; he might, however, be comfortable calling them a sub-creation. For Tolkien, 'creation' per se was specifically creatio ex nihilo, creation from nothing, a power which only Eru/God has. All any of the Ainur can do is creatio ex paleo, creation from existing matter, as evidenced by Aulë's creation of the Dwarves.

Just my two cents, for all they're worth. And, by the way, it's nice to be back on the Downs!