How hard and long was it, Aragorn?

[Rumil]

I doubt Elrond & co. were too impressed by Aragorn's claim of a long life, having several thousand years on him. I'd imagine these words were spoken with a long hard look at Boromir.

The phrasing does seem archaic, even poetical, but as with the thee and thou discussion, Aragorn does seem to switch between 'casual' and 'heroic' speech patterns depending on who he's chatting with. The Council is necessarily formal, heroic and certainly archaic, or at least most of its members were!

Er, yeah Morth, was thinking that Alatar had been hijacked by spammers until I read the post .

[Narnangol]

Originally Posted by Guinevere

Frodo tells Strider already in Bree:" You began to talk to me like the Bree folk, but your voice has changed ." And really, even then Aragorn uses "cannot" instead of "can't", "do not" instead of "don't", "let us" instead of "let's", "I will" instead of "I'll" "I think not" instead of "I don't think so" "have I not?" instead of "haven't I?" (In fact, only Hobbits and Bree-folk speak like that)

To me all this makes his speech sound more noble and ancient, and not commonplace.

Originally Posted by Rumil

...Aragorn does seem to switch between 'casual' and 'heroic' speech patterns depending on who he's chatting with.

I saw this, too; Aragorn's change in manner of speech is at times very noticeable, to Frodo as well as the readers, apparently. (However, his 'default' style - sans contractions, with more inversions etc - does seem to be so that he sounds less commonplace. Especially when he is Strider and his true identity as yet unrevealed, it hints at his nobility.) Tolkien explains this in Appendix F:

It will be noticed that Hobbits such as Frodo, and other persons such as Gandalf and Aragorn, do not always use the same style. This is intentional[...]It was in any case natural for much-travelled folk to speak more or less in the manner of those among whom they found themselves, especially in the case of men who, like Aragorn, were often at pains to conceal their origin and their business.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

n letter #171 that Squatter quoted Tolkien gives an example of what Theoden said and of how it would sound in colloquial English. But I'd have to look that up.

Fortunately I already posted it a long time ago: Tolkien on archaism in The King of the Golden Hall

[Rikae]

It's strange: it sounds best with the "a" to me. When I read it out loud, the "and" and "hard" are stressed, and unstressed "a" between creates a pleasing flow, whereas "and hard" just leaves an awkward pause.

With caps for stress:
i have HAD a LONG life AND a HARD

When read as "I've", it's all iambic here.

[alatar]

Again, thanks for all of the enlightening posts, as this tin ear has learned a lot about how this notorious phrase can sound.

But what if, and yes, this is a big if ... but what if the phrase is just a typographical error? What if a word were misplaced, mistaken or left behind entirely?

- I have had a hard **** and a long life.

- I have had a hard life and a long one.

- etc

Just saying.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by alatar

But what if, and yes, this is a big if ... but what if the phrase is just a typographical error? What if a word were misplaced, mistaken or left behind entirely?

- I have had a hard **** and a long life.

- I have had a hard life and a long one.

- etc

That's food for thought, but the wording looks to be intentional.

In HOME 2 the so-called "Fourth version" of the events at the Council reads:

'Yes, it is true,' [Aragorn] said, turning to Boromir with a smile. 'I do not look the part, maybe: I have had a hard life and a long, and the leagues that lie between here and Ond would go for little in the count of my wanderings.'

Apparently the Professor just liked the way that looked and sounded, for whatever reason.

[lindil]

Guinevere posted [and the Squatter also referenced]
"It's the same with me. When first reading Tolkien, I just enjoyed his special language unconsciously, without thinking about how and why it had this effect. But then I bought Prof. Shippey's excellent book " Tolkien, author of the century" which was really an eye opener. Especially because English is not my mothertongue, I profited a lot from it."

Shippey's exegesis of the Council of Elrond is really breathtaking, after reading I doubt I will ever be able to think of any of JRRT's post Hobbit writings [posthumously released or not!] as anything like accidental.

Shippey counts I reacll, 19 different idioms of english being used in the Council. Nothing was accidental. He emphasizes how the Council chapter breaks all the usual rules of storytelling and yet is one of the most riveting chapters in the Fellowship.

If one ever is tempted to feel one has struck the bottom of the barrel with LotR read his 'Author..." and/or "Road to M-E". I give his LotR insights 5 stars, not so his Silmarillion commentary which I feel is far more pedestrian, but he spends much more time on LotR anyway...