The Grey Havens

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by TheLostPilgrim

The fate of the Elves sounds rather cruel...That if they stayed they'd forget their own natures and be relegated to caves and hidden places. They were the most beautiful of ME's peoples, and seemingly the wisest and purest in nature.

It might seem a bit cruel, but then again it wasn't as if they had no choice and were doomed to that fate regardless.

Originally Posted by TheLostPilgrim

However, you make it sound like if they did go to the Undying Lands they would retain the full beauty and glory of their nature...Am I correct in reading it that way?

Oh yes. In the Blessed Realm they would keep all their gifts and knowledge.

Originally Posted by TheLostPilgrim

I feel sort of sad that Frodo and the other non-immortal members of the Fellowship could not be granted eternal life...I would think that would be a just reward for their troubles, sorrows and sacrifices in helping to save Middle Earth.

Merely being allowed as mortals to travel to an immortal place was a tremendous reward, and something, as far as I know, that was not given to any other "outsiders" at any time before or after.

Originally Posted by TheLostPilgrim

Which leads me to another question: What happens to regular spirits (as in the spirit of a Hobbit or a Dwarf, etc) when they die? I know Saruman's spirit was left to wander Middle Earth as a powerless shade forever, I suppose as punishment for his continued treachery and malice.

The fate of the spirits or souls of the mortals is an open question. Of Men (and Hobbits) there is no clue. The Dwarves believed that their own spirits remained in the world and were gathered by their maker, Aulë the Vala, and sent to Mandos, the location in the Blessed realm to which the spirits of slain Elves returned also. No definitive answer is given as to whether that was true, though.

Saruman was a special case. He was not mortal, but an immortal "angel" of the same order as Gandalf. He was indeed exiled as a punishment for his deeds in Middle-earth, though ultimately I think he would have been recalled to the Undying Lands to "face the music" , so to speak.

Originally Posted by TheLostPilgrim

But what of lesser spirits, where do they go when the physical body dies in Tolkien's cosmology? And what about Smeagol? I wonder if his poor soul ever found peace....

Like I said, that's just not made clear. Even the Elves who sat at the feet of the Valar in the Blessed Realm didn't have the answer for that one.

x/d with G55

[Kath]

Bilbo, Frodo, Sam, and Gimli would, at the end of their natural lifespan, die.

Which rather begs the question ... why go? For Frodo the answer is clear, less so for the others.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Kath

Which rather begs the question ... why go? For Frodo the answer is clear, less so for the others.

Well, Bilbo was the one in Middle earth most loved by Frodo, and as the Professor noted in Letter 246, he was also a Ring-bearer in need of healing similar to Frodo.

I think Sam went because of his devotion to Frodo, maybe to erase any traces of evil left by the Ring on him, and a desire to be in the most "Elvish" place in the world when he died.

And Gimli? Friendship with Legolas, and a desire to see Galadriel again.