The Necromancer

[blue]

Hmm! Well, I'll have to go back an look, then. I'm probably misremembering but I thought Saurman'd started down the wrong path with the palantir connection with Sauron, though I'm not sure when that could've occurred - prior to the jaunts Gandalf took during the Hobbit to thwart Sauron/Necromancer or after.

We received two looks in the LoTR movies of Sauron - an eye (vividly captured above as requiring massive sunglasses) and a huge dude in armor. I'm hoping Jackson can make as daunting an impression of the necromancer, but somewhere in between, maybe a heavy dark semicorporeal cloak or something, considering Sauron's power is rising, but not fully there yet.

I'll still be ticked if he shows at the Battle of the 5 Armies.

[Lalwendë]

I really don't want to besmirch the name of Benedict Cumberbatch, seeing as he's achieved the herculean task of making me enjoy Sherlock (the detective is one of my all time most hated literary characters), but I think he might not fully understand what he's talking about, he doesn't sound like a Tolkien fan

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

(the detective is one of my all time most hated literary characters)

???!!!!

I can't read other mystery after getting the hang of Sherlock Holmes!

Originally Posted by Lal

I think he might not fully understand what he's talking about, he doesn't sound like a Tolkien fan

He's an expert on the Five Legions War, that's for sure. You're probably right here.

[Dilettante]

(the detective is one of my all time most hated literary characters

Who doesn't love Sherlock Holmes.


Poor Benedict! Maybe he needs a few of us to go sit him down and and educate him over some tea.

Arguably, the same could be said for Peter Jackson.

[blue]

I haven't seen this so-called Cumberbatch as Sherlock, I might just have to look him up. Is it on BBC America?

[alatar]

Sigh. Can't wait to see what new spells the good and noble Saruman has to unlearn between the Hobbit and LotR.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Dilettante

Who doesn't love Sherlock Holmes.

Me. I'm not very keen on detective stories as it is, but there's something about Sherlock that makes me want to slap him with a wet fish. Thankfully the version conjoured up by The Moff and Cumberbatch is much more enjoyable. I think the single minded smugness is more appealing when brought across by a younger actor. He's more...geeky than irritating. The old Jeremy Brett version from the early 80s epitomises exactly what I didn't like about the character - a snooty know-all. No, I don't like the recent Hollywood version, either.

Given this, I'm fairly confident Cumberbatch can give us a very good turn in The Hobbit despite clearly not being a fan at all. Even though I wanted Richard Wilson to voice Smaug...

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Me. I'm not very keen on detective stories as it is, but there's something about Sherlock that makes me want to slap him with a wet fish. Thankfully the version conjoured up by The Moff and Cumberbatch is much more enjoyable. I think the single minded smugness is more appealing when brought across by a younger actor. He's more...geeky than irritating. The old Jeremy Brett version from the early 80s epitomises exactly what I didn't like about the character - a snooty know-all. No, I don't like the recent Hollywood version, either.

My favourite version of Holmes is the A.C.Doyle version.

Seriously. I hate all the movie Sherlocks. But I can't read any other "pure mystery stories" (I mean those that are only mystery, not mixed with adventure and etc) except for Doyle's, not after I fell in love with the Holmes style.



But going back to the original topic, it seems that there's a lot of confusion about Sauron's eyeball being the Necromancer, and even more that Saruman is somehow involved in Necromancy himself. Do they think that a big flaming Saruman's eyeball will be more appealing to the audience?

[Boo Radley]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

... big flaming Saruman's eyeball...

That would be a really good insult.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

My favourite version of Holmes is the A.C.Doyle version.

Definitely. But the BBC series is a very good adaption. Much better than the new films, for example. Steven Moffat is definitely better at writing Sherlock episodes than Doctor Who (I don't know if others will agree with me, but I didn't think that the last series was that great. I mean, Matt Smith is good, and some parts are good, but some of the plotlines/twists were kind of pointless).

On a similar but more related note, I hadn't seen either of the two (Martin Freeman or Benedict Cumberbatch) in a main role before watching Sherlock, and I have to say that they are both good actors though it probably will be a bit weird to have the Smaug and Bilbo be the same as Sherlock and Watson respectively.

And anyway, despite this possibility of Sauron being at the Battle of the Five Armies, Tauriel, and the appearance of Kili, I'm still looking forward to the film.

[Boo Radley]

Originally Posted by blue

Hmm! Well, I'll have to go back an look, then. I'm probably misremembering but I thought Saurman'd started down the wrong path with the palantir connection with Sauron...

That's what I'm thinking, too. If Saruman had a major fault before that, it was the arrogance that he could fight Sauron one to one.

[Sarumian]

Originally Posted by blue

Hmm! Well, I'll have to go back an look, then. I'm probably misremembering but I thought Saurman'd started down the wrong path with the palantir connection with Sauron, though I'm not sure when that could've occurred - prior to the jaunts Gandalf took during the Hobbit to thwart Sauron/Necromancer or after.

As I understood it, Saruman's corruption started before he got connected to Sauron via Palantir. It began when he learned enough about the true nature of The Ring and came to the conclusion that it can be found and used. He started desiring it. While he was not totally corrupt at the time of 'The Hobbit', he was already turning aside from his mission and, yes, delayed the attack on Dol Gudur under one or the other reason until Gandalf went there and proved that the Necromancer was Sauron. Then the attack was launched with his consent.

However, before he began chatting with the greater S, he was still able to return back to his path, but then he got trapped - all this happened a bit later as far as I concerned. Due to this reason, I wouldn't really mind such an interpretation, that at the time of 'The Hobbit' Saruman was still a noble wizard. Or may be he just came into temptation and desperately fought it. All that could make it more interesting, than just another battle.

[Sarumian]

PS Re: Mr. Cumberbatch. He's a good actor (Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy) and I hope, he's going to read the book before he does the job. His interview made me to recall how Russian emperor Alexander III explained why he fired a minister:
'When Durnovo reports to me, he understands nothing, but I can understand the matter; when count Vitte reports, I understand nothing, but he understands it. And when it was Krivoshey, neither him no me could understand anything.' The latter can also be said about the interviewer and mr. Cumberbatch.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Sarumian

However, before he began chatting with the greater S, he was still able to return back to his path, but then he got trapped - all this happened a bit later as far as I concerned.

Was Saruman truly 'trapped,' or was this Gandalf's spin on the situation. When I read the conversation between the Grey and the White wizards, it sure seems that Saruman was a willing partner in Sauron's plans.

Regardless, can't wait to see how PJ spins it. Saruman with chronic conjunctivitis in one eye perhaps?

[Sarumian]

Originally Posted by alatar

Was Saruman truly 'trapped,' or was this Gandalf's spin on the situation. When I read the conversation between the Grey and the White wizards, it sure seems that Saruman was a willing partner in Sauron's plans.

Regardless, can't wait to see how PJ spins it. Saruman with chronic conjunctivitis in one eye perhaps?

I totally agree that Saruman collaborated with Sauron willingly but I belive he had already had the way out no more. Like a trapped mouse who willingly eats cheese...

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Sarumian

I totally agree that Saruman collaborated with Sauron willingly but I belive he had already had the way out no more. Like a trapped mouse who willingly eats cheese...

No, he had. Gandalf made a point of pointing that outduring his, Saruman's, Theoden's and etc little chat at Orthanc. If he would have repented, he would have been welcomed back. But you can't repent unless you really mean it, and Saruman did not, so he could not. But it's because who he was, not what situation he was in.

Hi everyone!
I guess I'm just as excited about the movie as you are.
I even reread the book two weeks ago.
So, here's my question: who is that Necromancer?
I know that Benedict Cumberbatch is going to give him his voice. But I don't remember him in the book.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Hendrix90

Hi everyone!
I guess I'm just as excited about the movie as you are.
I even reread the book two weeks ago.
So, here's my question: who is that Necromancer?
I know that Benedict Cumberbatch is going to give him his voice. But I don't remember him in the book.

The Necromancer was an awful reprobate who lived in a small cubicle deep in the Forest of Mirkwood. He was despised for dispatching black flying squirrels all over Wilderland who bore in their mouths advertisements for worthless products nobody wanted.