What other fantasy books do YOU read?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel

I'm currently reading A Wizard of Earthsea (did I mention that before?) but I'm a little surprised at Le Guin's portrayal of women - considering she herself is a woman. All the women in the first book are either old and useless or pretty and good.

Serret is beautiful and, if not definitely evil, at least highly morally ambiguous– but then as she's the only powerful female magic-user in the book, I'm not sure if that helps matters.

Originally Posted by Galadriel

I was also taken aback by Le Guin's use of the phrases 'weak as a woman's magic' and 'wicked as a woman's magic' in consecutive sentences. So women's magic is either weak or evil? Wow. This book takes feminism back to the 1700s. Considering Earthsea is not set in the primary world (even if it is set a 'long time ago'), she could have easily given women at least intellectual strength.

I don't think it's clear, even in the first book, whether you're meant to take all that "wicked as women's magic" stuff as being real, or merely a matter of prejudice. Not that I buy that it's deliberate social criticism either– it's not like the belief is ever challenged, even in a "token" sort of way.

Now, I get a bit tired of feminist arguments from time to time, but this lady really makes me want to hit her. I hear she gets really feminist in the fourth book, but that it's also really bad.

Unfortunately, yes– mainly because so much of it consists of Le Guin vainly trying to talk her way out of the fairly gratuitous sexism of the previous books.

With all that, she is still one of my favourite SF writers, and the Earthsea trilogy one of the few works of high fantasy I think really compares to Lord of the Rings– by being as different as possible. Honestly I'm really getting rather jaded about the seemingly endless supply of brick-novels that do little more than recycle the old cliches.

[Galadriel]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Serret is beautiful and, if not definitely evil, at least highly morally ambiguous– but then as she's the only powerful female magic-user in the book, I'm not sure if that helps matters.

I didn't find her all that ambiguous

I don't think it's clear, even in the first book, whether you're meant to take all that "wicked as women's magic" stuff as being real, or merely a matter of prejudice. Not that I buy that it's deliberate social criticism either– it's not like the belief is ever challenged, even in a "token" sort of way.

True - and there's little to prove those statements wrong.

With all that, she is still one of my favourite SF writers, and the Earthsea trilogy one of the few works of high fantasy I think really compares to Lord of the Rings– by being as different as possible. Honestly I'm really getting rather jaded about the seemingly endless supply of brick-novels that do little more than recycle the old cliches.

Aside from the sexism factor, I quite like her books as well. Ged is a really good character, and the philosophy about names is quite interesting. And I know what you mean about the recycling of old cliches. This seems to be the general plot of most fantasy novels, with nothing very different about the way it's done: orphaned/abused child - child finds out he/she is a great wizard/sorcerer or the last of a species or a great lineage - sets out for vengeance/identity and meets mysterious person (usually a man) on the way - man turns out to be the only person who can 'teach' the protagonist the things they want to learn - protagonist learns all ridiculously fast and well - protagonist up against a series of villains - protagonist comes out victorious without really sacrificing anything that is really important.

Sigh.

[Galadriel]

Anyone around here read 'The Hunger Games'? I'm not sure if it's fantasy, but I've been hearing a lot about it, and to be truthful I'm a little sceptical. I mean, girl and boy chosen to kill other children in a dystopian world where adults rule? Let me guess: the girl and the guy will be prolific, and the girl will end up being some kind of 'leader', and she'll never do anything wrong with intent, because she's only ever forced to do bad things, and she and the guy will have some kind of forced romance...

I think I'd better stop. The number of flat protagonists these days are kind of getting to my head.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Galadriel

Anyone around here read 'The Hunger Games'? I'm not sure if it's fantasy, but I've been hearing a lot about it, and to be truthful I'm a little sceptical. I mean, girl and boy chosen to kill other children in a dystopian world where adults rule? Let me guess: the girl and the guy will be prolific, and the girl will end up being some kind of 'leader', and she'll never do anything wrong with intent, because she's only ever forced to do bad things, and she and the guy will have some kind of forced romance...

I think I'd better stop. The number of flat protagonists these days are kind of getting to my head.

I finished Weirdstone yesterday and still being in the frame of mind to devour a book, I picked up a copy of The Hunger Games today. My interest was piqued because it's dystopian SF and I'm always interested in that, so I wanted to see what a 'young adult' novel would make of what sounded like a lift from the plot of Battle Royale.

I've read three-quarters of it since this afternoon, and it's pretty good. There's vivid scene-setting, the characters aren't flat and predictable at all, and the narrator isn't a 'Mary Sue' but has some definite failings and flaws. The whole concept of people forced to fight to the death has now been done a few times, but it still works. It also makes you feel a bit angry/disgusted, which is always a plus point with dystopian stories. Not finished it yet though, and I've read more than enough novels with poor endings lately, so I shall see....

I wonder - could you call dystopian SF 'fantasy'? Where does one stop and another begin?


EDIT - finished it now, and even though it was basically Battle Royale for younger readers, it was a decent book. Not sure I want to read the sequels, as I thought it was well rounded off, but I'm sure there would be plenty of things to discuss about it, and I can easily see this one creeping into school reading lists at some point.

[Mrs. Boffin]

I feel rather daring and frisky replying to this post, but sci fi and fantasy are two of my three favorite fictional genres.

I got through A Feast of Crows or whatever the title was of Martin's 4th book before I finally gave up on the series. While he's created an in-depth, original universe, it just wasn't enough for me. I personally look for characters I can cheer for when I read, and the ones left by the end of the 4th book were either rotten or Too Stupid To Live and I really didn't care about any of them any more.

I do understand the appeal of such an epic work, and the heraldry and family history is fascinating. I guess I just prefer a less sprawling, more focused style.

On to a cheerier subject -- writers I like, lol! Marion Zimmer Bradley's The Mists of Avalon and the Sword and Sorceress anthologies she edited are enjoyable. I also like Orson Scott Card, both his sci fi and his fantasy. Cherryh's Fortress series is on my TBR list, and after reading some of this thread, so is Patrick Rothfuss.

I also enjoyed my daughter's Percy Jackson books.

[Galadriel]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

I finished Weirdstone yesterday and still being in the frame of mind to devour a book, I picked up a copy of The Hunger Games today. My interest was piqued because it's dystopian SF and I'm always interested in that, so I wanted to see what a 'young adult' novel would make of what sounded like a lift from the plot of Battle Royale.

I've read three-quarters of it since this afternoon, and it's pretty good. There's vivid scene-setting, the characters aren't flat and predictable at all, and the narrator isn't a 'Mary Sue' but has some definite failings and flaws. The whole concept of people forced to fight to the death has now been done a few times, but it still works. It also makes you feel a bit angry/disgusted, which is always a plus point with dystopian stories. Not finished it yet though, and I've read more than enough novels with poor endings lately, so I shall see....

I wonder - could you call dystopian SF 'fantasy'? Where does one stop and another begin?


EDIT - finished it now, and even though it was basically Battle Royale for younger readers, it was a decent book. Not sure I want to read the sequels, as I thought it was well rounded off, but I'm sure there would be plenty of things to discuss about it, and I can easily see this one creeping into school reading lists at some point.

Still not sure I want to pick it up. There are not any local libraries where I live, so I shall have to buy it - but it will be at the end of a long, long list of books I want to finish first.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Galadriel

Still not sure I want to pick it up. There are not any local libraries where I live, so I shall have to buy it - but it will be at the end of a long, long list of books I want to finish first.

A cheap second hand copy should be easy to find on teh internets. It's been a very popular book for a long time and on lots of school reading lists too, so I should think there are lots of them in circulation! It's a quick read too

That was Weirdstone...but then I realised you're talking Hunger Games!

Well I got mine at the supermarket for £3! Brand new! So try there while it's still a bestseller. It's also a quick read.

[Galadriel]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

A cheap second hand copy should be easy to find on teh internets. It's been a very popular book for a long time and on lots of school reading lists too, so I should think there are lots of them in circulation! It's a quick read too

That was Weirdstone...but then I realised you're talking Hunger Games!

Well I got mine at the supermarket for £3! Brand new! So try there while it's still a bestseller. It's also a quick read.

Decided to get it off Amazon. Luckily I will be able to get it delivered to the UK since I will be going there in some days - if I were to order it here, I would be charged over eight pounds just for delivery!