TIG XCIV– WHere the Stars Are Strange (Game thread)

[A Little Green]

Agh. Going with the only feeble lead I have -

++ Boro

I'd love to stay and read and discuss and most of all think, and do something a bit smarter than this, but unfortunately I've got to go. I'll be more active toMorrow, I promise. Good Night!

[Bom Tombadillo]

Arrrgh. Well, I've got nothing. Except . . . I don't like Greenie's vote; I really don't see what Boro has done to deserve a vote. Still, I'll not vote her until she can explain herself; it's entirely possible I'm missing something.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

So three people saying they don't like random votes is bad, but three people saying that they don't like people complaining about random votes is fine?

Yes, because ranting about random votes is just space-filler, but talking about posting and commenting about the posts being space-fillers can lead to getting a better idea of how the ranters (and commenters, for that matter) are playing (which can help lead to suspicion or lack thereof).

[QUOTE=Thinlómien;667405][Pitchwife - makes some weird points and generally isn't especially honest-seeming, but then again I'm kind of sympathetic towards him after that really weird attack from Lottie and Zil's direction.[/QUOTE[

That wasn't an attack by any means. It was one semi-banter, playful poke post and one post that didn't actually end up having anything to do with the 'attack'. This seems to me like a Lommy-wolf overreacting to what she perceives as suspicion on her packmate, and responding by agreeing that he's suspicious but also throwing the 'attack' into poor light. I'd like to, first of all, keep a closer look at their interactions, but also note that Lommy is now one of my top suspicions.

Lottie - seems maybe the worst this far (I KNOW, Lottie and Day1 suspicion, it's quite lame, but...), her points funnily resemble clutching at straws. Also, she merits people with stuff quite easily and weirdly (like me for contributing in my early posts).

It's Day One. There are no suspicions that won't seem like grasping at straws. If I'd been loudly proclaiming that someone was absolutely undeniably guilty, then the grasping at straws argument would hold water, but as it happens, I've been playfully poking and examining a group of people who posted eerily similar and abnormal rants. I didn't say you contributed, or anything nearly so concrete. I said your post made sense because of when it was posted, and that, looking at the context, was even one of the more substantial posts - one of the more, not actually substantial.

[Thinlómien]

Uggh, I should wake up in less than 8h, so better quit ww now. I don't really have much to add - maybe just that I still think Lottie's comment about Pitch sounded like a "lookee, lookee, he made a slip!" and if someone agreed she'd be ready to go "exactly, that's what I said!" but if someone questioned her reasoning she'd be saying "I was just making fun of him". I'll be back well before the DL and vote then based on all the evidence that has piled up while I've been sleeping and attending my morning lecture...


edit: xed with Eönwë

[Pitchwife]

So I fell asleep after dinner and wake up when it's nearing bedtime. Good it's not DL yet.

Lommy, which of my points seem "weird" to you?

G55's outburst against Rikae feels pretty genuine to me, and I don't quite get what Boro thinks was so over-the-top about it - I mean, if she had the impression that Rikae was trying to suggest Lottie suspect her, being outraged is an understandable reaction; and as Rikae's post looks just like that on the surface, who's to blame her. (Only, knowing Rikae a bit, that would have been remarkably unsubtle.)

Originally Posted by G55 about Zil

Plus, if he's a wolf, I'd imagine he would have let the Alcolyte speculation run its course instead of jumping into the spotlight himself.

That's actually a good point. Wolves usually love discussing rules and technicalities rather than discussing people, they're great for talking a lot without saying much.

Legate, one thing I'd like to be clear about - if, as you say, you weren't accusing Zil when all this started, are you accusing him now or is your insistence merely scientific interest in his thought processes?

Originally Posted by Nog

Which immediately led me to think that his role as a Gondorian-wolfie was showing through...

You want to read up on the Corsairs of Umbar. We're the only pure Gondorians left - that rabble up north are just mudbloods.

Originally Posted by Nog

The second thing that bothered me there early on was him accusing both Rikae and Eönwë piling onto easy suspicion (the Legate - Zil thingy) when looking at their posts that clearly isn't the case.

Isn't it?

Originally Posted by Rikae #27

I agree with Legate on the importance of simply starting conversation [...] In that vein, I don't much care for Inzil and Bom's empty posts

Originally Posted by Eönwë #31

Ok, what I don't like is how Inzil managed to change the discussion about the Acolyte into meta-discussion.

How would you describe what's going on here?

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Nog

So she admits there was an attack but that her "poke" just didn't actually end up having anything to do with it?

No, what Lottie is saying is that Zil's post that followed hers didn't have anything to do with her poke/attack/whateveryouwannacallit, unlike Lommy had supposed.
FWIW, I was mildly annoyed by Lottie's failure to get my sarcasm, but I didn't think of it as an "attack" until Lommy, ironically, blew it up into one.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Lottie always seems suspicious on Day 1, so it's no surprise that she does now, but with the whole late meta-discussion comment I mentioned before as well as some of the other points people have brought against her, she seems worse than usual. But I don't know if a wolf would be so bold so early on.

In which way would you say has Lottie acted like a bold wolf? I fail to see where she's done anything particularly bold yet.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Pitch

Isn't it?

How would you describe what's going on here?

I'd describe them just as what they stand for.

So, Rikae is saying that Legate is right in stating that there should be conversation (defending the Acolyte discussion), and that she disagrees with the way Zil & Bom post empty posts (aka posts that don't get us any further, I guess?)

Eönwë is saying that he doesn't like the way Zil turned the Acolyte discussion into a meta discussion - whether that is true or false as I'm not sure it was Zil (or him alone) who turned the discussion off the Acolyte (or whether it was bad that Acolyte discussion finally ended).

But "piling onto easy suspicion in the Legate - Inzil case"? Nope.

To me those doing it are the ones who jump on it (the "controversy" between the two) and parrot things like "that is the interesting thing toDay" - implying that we should concentrate on them. That's "piling up" for me. Pointing at that discusiion as being the one to pay heed to (while ignoring other possibilities).

Some did do that, but I think not Rikae or Eönwë.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Isn't it?
How would you describe what's going on here?

Do I need to explain myself again? I didn't like the acolyte discussion because it meant everyone could hide under the veil of "This discussion is better than nothing, at least later we can look back on it" (see my earlier post). I'm still not sure what Inzil was getting at, but by reiterating his side so many times, he gave more justification for people to argue the side that already has general consensus, and so no, I didn't like that because it gives the wolves a place to hide.
Just because something doesn't automatically make him evil, it doesn't mean I have to like what he's doing, does it?
You can try to misrepresent my argument (twice) if you want, but I think it's clear in the context of the rest of my post that this is what I was getting at.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Eönwë is saying that he doesn't like the way Zil turned the Acolyte discussion into a meta discussion - whether that is true or false as I'm not sure it was Zil (or him alone) who turned the discussion off the Acolyte (or whether it was bad that Acolyte discussion finally ended).

Inzil made three posts that essentially said "Let's not talk about the Acolyte and focus on finding the wolves" while making no suggestions about how such a thing might be done. The actual Acolyte discussion is irrelevant.



Ironically, I'm really not liking the look of Inzil now. I didn't find his play suspicious before, just very weird, but now, not only has he not even attempted to explain his actions, he's tried to claim I'm suspicious for pointing them out.


I probably actually want to vote for Inzil now. Lottie on a Day 1 is a bad idea, and no one else actually seems lynch-worthy yet.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'm here and reading (looks like I very nearly pulled a Kath! )

Also, this deadline is an... interesting one for me.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Lommy

Shall we all now flock to protect Shasta since the Moddess Goddess's marvelous narration surely leaves no doubt about the identity of the seer?

Shhh!

Originally Posted by Lommy

Given the recent events, I think honour would demand Shasta and I go nilp because of our failures at serving the Empress. Oh woe!

But I never left my post! And besides, all of you know I'd never hurt the Empress!

Originally Posted by Lommy

Speaking of voting, I HATE RANDOM VOTES. THEY DON'T SERVE THE VILLAGE IN ANY WAY. DON'T MAKE THEM IF YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE ME ANGRY AND SUSPICIOUS OF YOU.

This is an awfully fervent announcement. I'm curious now, Lommy, of what you think of Bom's self-vote.

As far as speculating on the Acolyte goes, you all know speculating is one of my favorite things. So my personal speculation - it's possible that the Acolyte isn't either innocent-aligned or wolf-aligned, but rather has a win condition entirely their own (survive till the end, get X lynched, et cetera.) Boro's Mythomaniac idea, however, has merit, and I think it's an equally likely possibility.

Legate's #14 seems to be the start of this "Legate/Inzil business I've been reading about. It's also another one of the "hate of random votes" posts. What interests me in it is this quote of Legate's -

Originally Posted by Legate

Now that said, it's nothing against you in particular, Zil (even though I quoted your post)

- which would be all good and well, had it ended there, but Legate keeps going after Zil in #20 -

Originally Posted by Legate

Sure. That was what I gathered. However, as you have seen in my point, it is very nice that you are saying that, but what do you mean by "focus on finding Wolves". Saying "we should be finding Wolves" and finishing the post with that is probably the worst thing one can do. "What you are doing is not exactly what we should be doing, but I am not doing anything else either, I merely dismiss what you are doing but don't do anything new myself." I would therefore urge (if it wasn't clear enough from my previous posts) everyone who says "we shouldn't focus on this and that" not only to say what we should focus on (catching wolves, we ALL know that, of course, once again see what I said in my previous post, what else are we here for? Does anybody seriously think we are here to discuss Acolytes???), but MOST OF ALL to actually DO something, too, and not just talk how things *theoretically* should be done.

- so I think it's a bit strange that Legate continues going after Inzil with a point that he specifically mentioned wasn't a point against Inzil.

There's another interesting bit involving Lommy, Pitch, and G55 - about whether it's wise to speculate on the details of the Acolyte role. Lommy's point about not being sure it's wise to discuss the details of the role if it cooperates with the Seer is a valid one; and I personally agree with Pitch on the matter, that with the possibility that the Acolyte can join the wolf side, there's no harm in talking about it if it might wind up against us - but G55's reaction interests me.

Originally Posted by G55

Yeah, but the wolves are also listening. Personally, I don't want to give them ideas about how to strengthen their side.

I don't understand this reaction. Given that at this time all we have is speculation (and speculation that's likely to be wrong, in any case), I think the benefits of talking about it definitely outweigh any drawbacks, like that of the wolves listening. Let them. If they somehow manage to act on any random theory or idle speculation we've mentioned, and are spectacularly wrong, all the better for us.

Nogrod's #23 is a long, well-written post that doesn't really say much. For one, it's another "hate on random votes" post, and for another, it's his thoughts on the Acolyte. All well and good, but it seems he's replying to something Legate was using against Inzil at the time, which doesn't really fit.

And in a bit of a turnaround, Inzil's #24 is another answer to Legate that's basically been the same as his previous answers. Could be a case of "talking too much yet saying nothing", but I still tend to think Legate is the fishier of the two.

Now, Inzil's response (#26) to Lottie's joke (#25) was a real eyebrow-raiser, the first time I came across it. My first reaction to it was "Inzil's noting that Lottie caught Pitch in a slip!" But then later he says it was something different entirely.

I agree with Lottie's #28, about the random votes. I hate them as much as the next person, but ranting about it serves no purpose (and doesn't stop certain people from doing them, as we've seen.)

In #29, Inzil mentions that Rikae agrees with him and then doesn't like the emptiness of his posts, which looks like an opportunistic kind of "hey, look, that's suspicious" move - except in the post he quotes, Rikae says she agrees with Legate, not Inzil. Interesting.

ADD: Rikae herself mentions that a bit later -

Originally Posted by Rikae

Inzil, as I said, I agree with Legate. Posts that demand people work on catching wolves, rather than work on it themselves, are empty posts.

Originally Posted by Eonwe

Ok, what I don't like is how Inzil managed to change the discussion about the Acolyte into meta-discussion. While the former discussion lets people think about the game ahead and shows people's attitudes now, as well as maybe being interesting to look at in future, this discussion about whether we should discuss it is bad because it's giving everyone a place to hide. Legate replied first, but now everyone's repeating the same thing (which I thought had been general consensus for ages anyway- it was when I last played) about any discussion being better than no discussion.

I'm not saying that Inzil or Legate are bad, but people are too keen to bandwaggon onto that discussion and say nothing of value, while looking active and helpful.

But I'm curious, Zil, what did you have in mind?

...What? You just got through basically reprimanding Inzil for discussion that doesn't accomplish anything, and now you're giving him a license to continue? That's.... awkward, Steve, very awkward indeed.

Originally Posted by Boro

I should also say because the DL doesn't fit my schedule well, I'll most of the time probably have to vote 5-6 hours early. So, whoever is able to keep around at the DL...with double-lynching a factor, please stop this trend of "keep my vote until the last possible second" vote flurry.

I agree with this. Being another of those "will probably have to vote hours ahead of schedule", I would rather not see three people lynched at the same time because of people crossing at DL. However, this is currently subverted by the fact that my sleep schedule is currently wack, and I'll almost definitely actually be here for the DL toDay.

Originally Posted by Pitch

Now, to get down to business, the most interesting thing that has happened so far is between Legate and Zil. Legate is of course right that saying "But we have to catch wolves" is a) easy and b) doesn't achieve anything in actually catching them [plus c) it's more or less saying "look how determined I am to catch wolves, I can't possibly be one"], and also in criticizing Zil for keeping aloof of the Acolyte discussion without suggesting an alternative.

The problem with this is that Zil plunging headlong into a D1 discussion with arguments left right & center is about as likely to happen as Bom starting D1 with a Nogrodesque rallying speech. He has this style of hanging back, observing and biding his time early in the game, and whenever I've suspected him because of it I've been wrong.

That said, Legate's criticism of him looks innocent to me (and the vehemence with which he pursued it just feels un-faked), but I don't like how people regurgitate it now and pile onto an easy suspicion (people meaning Rikae and Eönwë - especially Eönwë who complains about 'people' [no names given] 'bandwaggoning on that discussion' while doing it himself).

Pitch is now the second person to basically say 'Yeah, Legate had a good point on Inzil' (Greenie was the first.) And that bothers me, since Legate specifically said that what he was saying was "nothing against Zil". It's also worth noting that though Pitch apparently agrees with Legate's point, he hangs back a bit with "whenever I've suspected him because of it I've been wrong" - almost in a way that leaves him an out in case an Inzil lynch happens.

G55's post #39 is an incredible overreaction (and yes, that's coming from me, no one's allowed to laugh .) But really, asking someone what they think of you isn't tantamount to "here, make this point against this person for me."


And that's page 1 done. Moving on.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

A few small updates.

I have grown a bit more suspicious of Lommy - in particular, after her list. She has lots of those nothing-saying remarks about most people, and about some people (like e.g. Boro, sally or Greenie) she has the sort of notes which would well be used in the scheme "how to easily defend a packmate without making it seem obvious". Of course, it is now early and might be she does not have any sort of good suspects etc., and I know that such a list can sometimes come up just randomly out of genuine thinking. But I am just putting this under my watch.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Unless Legate is a baddie smelling an easy lynch. However, I do agree that others are more worrisome than he.

Well, I never said anything about accusation there, as far as I know. And most certainly not in the beginning, you of all should know since we were the ones talking - so I hope this is not attempt to make people suspect *me* or something.

Not that I require that answer, but you still completely avoid the question of what the Angband were you thinking when you kept saying "let's not ..., let's ...", yet not doing anything about it. I don't really require the answer, but it puzzles me and it puzzles me why are you not explaining it.

Apart from what I said about Lommy now, Greenie's vote made me look again at Boro. I must say there is something which I also find unsettling about him, but it is something different - mainly his sort of, hmm, apologetic tone in regards to other players. Like this:

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I was actually going to tell Rikae, I don't think she's played with you before and your early posts are a standard G55. Granted, that means you would also do it as a wolf, but I appreciate the variety you bring to the table. How dragging and teeth-gritting would a village full of Legates, Nogs, and Boros be?

He does then raise some more critical points about Gal, like pondering her possible guilt etc, but overall his tone seems to be rather friendly and *uses dictionary* lenient. Indulgent. Benevolent. (Hope you get the point )

Also, a bit from the same post:

Although, I'd hardly say Legate and Inzil were as stubborn and aggressive as I was being with Agan, certainly as far as early day activity they will be getting the majority of the attention. Good observation, and what to make of it is the question. And now, add Greenie to the list of those who I'd prefer not to see lynched today.

That's also somewhat similar - the last sentence, I mean - he did that before toDay, of course yes, you can rule out people you don't want to lynch, but somehow this can have two edges... you can rule out people, but you can also be nicey-goodey to people... which somehow does not fit with Boro for me. Not this kind of behavior.

Originally Posted by Eruhen

Just poking in to correct a misconception: Eruhen is a he. Named Phil.

That's all.

Okay, my apologies, shall bear that in mind.

Originally Posted by Bom Tombadillo

Arrrgh. Well, I've got nothing. Except . . . I don't like Greenie's vote; I really don't see what Boro has done to deserve a vote. Still, I'll not vote her until she can explain herself; it's entirely possible I'm missing something.

This also does not sit well with me. It's more like gut feeling, and sort of the "defensive" tone or what... "I don't like... it's possible I am missing..." But then again, really, with Bom it's difficult. I find it hard to analyze him when he posts generally rather short, unealaborative posts - which may have substance (and may even be spot on), but it is just harder to say if he is making stuff up and faking it or just speaking his mind, if you know what I mean...

EDIT: x-ed after Bom

[Galadriel55]

A leeeetle short update:

I would not want to see Zil lynched, as I said before. Can't see an Inzilawolf putting his neck in line like that.

Lommy relies heavily on the word "weird" in her impressions post, a word that I find terribly undescriptive. I doubt anyone has any strong impressions, but "weird" is too vague a way of phrasing it. That ticked my radar.

This may have been an impression left by the Lottie-suspicion, but she does feel odd. I'll try to be very careful and objective here, because looking at my slight apprehension from the side it could be an effect of some wolves muttering "Lottie is bad, go lynch her". And from what I know about WW games this isn't the first occurance of this either. I'm going to do my best to keep my ground and separate my own thoughts from the others' about Lottie.



Everyone else either said too little or the impression didn't stand out (you're all sensible and have some good points and no good/bad vibe that stands out, I won't list you all individually and repeat this).

[Rikae]

Greenie's vote for Boro looks more or less ok to me, precisely because it is so out-of-the-blue and gut-feelingish, if you get what I mean. Not to say that it's wabbit season or anything, but Greenie herself seems all right.

Eönwë is sort of blending into the background, and he seems to be doing it by hanging around in the thicket of meta-discussion, poking at multiple people while refraining from singling anyone out in a way that might attract too much attention. I'm going to keep my eye on him.

EDIT: X'd with a Nog.

[Nogrod]

Lottie then. (I'm checking people that I've had some bad feelings about one by one - if my method of picking just a few people at the time does seem a bit odd)

She admits her "manage to kill the seer" -note was semi-banter, but the way she phrases it looks interesting.

It was one semi-banter, playful poke post and one post that didn't actually end up having anything to do with the 'attack'

So she admits there was an attack but that her "poke" just didn't actually end up having anything to do with it? Okay. This might be a linguistic issue (non-native speaker here) and you should correct me if I'm wrong, but to me that phrasing looks pretty odd.

Her rant against random-vote talk and the implication that the ones doing it are just filling space with nothing to say while trying to look helpful is clearly misguided for two reasons (read these Lottie)
1) That talk needs to be made in every game so that random votes don't happen. And it needs to be stated in no unplain terms. After it is done and the general mood is outspoken, no wolf wishes to dare a random vote. It's called "performative use of language" in linguistics and philosophy of language: saying things make them happen. Not saying it loudly enough leaves room for different behaviours (and sadly I'm not convinced our rant was enough for no one to try a declared random vote but well, we'l see about that).
2) Of all people you say that Legate and I are the ones who try to hunker down and stay ambivalent and just fill space with saying nothing! Really?
Really?

And well, like Eönwë pointed out, it seems pretty funny she is unhappy with people filling space with "self-evidencies" and does it herself adding the N'th explanation why the Acolyte discussion is okay... But well, most of us are guilty of that this Day. (It's been a weird Day in that. )

But something I feel uneasy with her is in her post where she answers Rikae about G55. It is kind of, how would you say it, like a child who wants to play nice for mom even if she hasn't been good lately. When mom asks, she immediately answers - finds an answer she hasn't herself picked up before but is kind of "good enough" to be an answer, and gives it just like that. And then mom pats her head and doesn't ask nasty questions any more.

Does anyone get what I mean?

Also, I think she is over-reacting to Lommy's suspicions, to put it mildly

If I'd been loudly proclaiming that someone was absolutely undeniably guilty, then the grasping at straws argument would hold water

But like Inzil, I find her first and foremost acting strangely. In Lottie's case that would mean being very jumpy at times and at the other time poking here and there...


I see Inzil has posted... enough right now, back soon.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Greenie's vote for Boro looks more or less ok to me, precisely because it is so out-of-the-blue and gut-feelingish, if you get what I mean. Not to say that it's wabbit season or anything, but Greenie herself seems all right.

Yeah, not exactly happy that acknowledging a person's good observation makes you too nice to not be evil, but it doesn't look like a bad/wolfy vote.

Originally Posted by G55

Lommy relies heavily on the word "weird" in her impressions post, a word that I find terribly undescriptive. I doubt anyone has any strong impressions, but "weird" is too vague a way of phrasing it. That ticked my radar.

Weird is a pretty common Lommyism. I know, because I've harped on her before to stop using it if she's suspecting someone.

Originally Posted by G55

This may have been an impression left by the Lottie-suspicion, but she does feel odd.

(bold my emphasis).

See my point? It's impossible to avoid using weird/odd/strange to describe unusual/suspicious behavior.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

What bothers me about Boro is the way he painted G55 suspicious. To me her strong reaction to Rikae's question for Lottie looked very sincere indeed (as I said already back there). So Boro's attack looked to me like a wolf noticing a possible pray who has made herself vulnerable, and jumping for it.

Well. Didn't look genuine to me. And perhaps I shouldn't look at it through my eyes, but I've done the same thing time and time again when I've been a wolf. Get too dramatic over the slightest of things. Not that G55 was faking being angry, but playing up being angry to hopefully get suspicion off her. As if her honor had been impugned. I've literally done the same thing, indignicantly objecting to people beating around the bush..."If you suspect me then suspect me!" stuff.

And her defense for the rant comes dow to semantics, not liking the way Rikae phrased the question to Lottie. Now tell me if you think overly-dramatic reactions to stuff like word definitions and the way questions are phrased is genuine?

Edit: Crossed since Inzil's post #72.

[Rikae]

Haha, I just realized I mistook a coyote for a wabbit... that could be a dangerous mistake!

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I've done the same thing time and time again when I've been a wolf. Get too dramatic over the slightest of things.
...
Now tell me if you think overly-dramatic reactions to stuff like word definitions and the way questions are phrased is genuine?

That depends a lot on who is doing it, don't you think? If the phantom tried it, I'd not turn half of my ear to him, but if Mith did it, I would be fairly certain it's true.

[Eönwë]

Ok, I'm going to sleep now, and should be back in about 7/8 hours to vote.

I'm too tired to make a proper list, but here are some final thoughts:

Legate looks good to me now. He speaks sense and I agree with most of what he says.

I'm still confused about Inzil. Hopefully he'll explain what he was thinking earlier by the time I come back.

Nogrod makes me uncertain. I seem to remember his innocent self being more controversial and and attacking on Day 1, but maybe things have changed since I've been gone.

Greenie seems innocent enough. She makes good points and seems like she's trying to work for the innocents, so I'll trust her for now.

Lommy worries me a bit. I can never get a good read on her, but something in her posts makes me uneasy.

Boro also worries me. He's usually loud and talkative, but now he seems to be flitting in and out of the game in a way that seems almost non-commital. He hasn't spoken much yet though, so I can't judge him properly.

Bom is far under the radar.

G55 is impossible to read, but she seems innocent enough so far.

Pitch seems a bit self-conscious. Don't know whether this makes him look good or bad.

Rikae seems to be adopting her regular tone, and so far she seems clear and honest, so I'm liking her at the moment.

Lottie always seems suspicious on Day 1, so it's no surprise that she does now, but with the whole late meta-discussion comment I mentioned before as well as some of the other points people have brought against her, she seems worse than usual. But I don't know if a wolf would be so bold so early on.

Sally has said far too little for me to say anything about her.

I've never played with Eru, so, at least for today, I'm willing to give his "I'll just watch" the benefit of the doubt, even though it seems pretty bad.



Ok, so I was wrong. It has basically become a list.


edit: x-ed with Nog's last post and fixed spellings

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Boro also worries me. He's usually loud and talkative, but now he seems to be flitting in and out of the game in a way that seems almost non-commital. He hasn't spoken much yet though, so I can't judge him properly.

You ever have one of those days where it feels like you can't remember what you've been doing all day? That's been me today...like I swear I've kept up-to-date on all the replies, and by Day 1 standards it appears moderately productive, yet...I haven't the faintest clue what the heck I've been reading. Nothing is sinking in, it's as if I'm reading words but not complete sentences with thoughts and ideas. Probably why I've looked so disconnected and non-commital, and I can't do anything except say "you're right, I'm not being me."

I'll be up for the next 2-ish hours, so will go back and read through it again, and will have to vote within that time too.

Edit: crossed with Legate

[Loslote]

++Lommy

Because of her list post, overreaction to the 'suspicion that wasn't' against Pitch, and stretching her points in general. She's my top suspect, and I'm not positive I'll be online again before DL.

[Nogrod]

Okay. I'm really confused with Inzil and I need to think and probably rethink before I write anything on him. But if you Inzil would like to explain, it would be fine.


But two short ones first.

I said earlier that Pitch was bothering me in the early game and I went back to have a look. And I think I know what it was, even if I'm a bit less sure of it's merit.

He opened with bantering in IC

you southron Barbarians think you can tackle Gondor? Pathetic. You'll need all the help you can get from the Dark Lord.

Which immediately led me to think that his role as a Gondorian-wolfie was showing through... coupled with the odd way of saying that we "manage to kill our seer" in the same post.

Well after a check I realised that his character is from Umbar so north from Harad and the IC is correct. And reading Lommy point out the sarcasm in his point about us managing to kill our seer opened my eyes to that too, and I find it hard to read it otherwise anymore.

The second thing that bothered me there early on was him accusing both Rikae and Eönwë piling onto easy suspicion (the Legate - Zil thingy) when looking at their posts that clearly isn't the case. And this actually bothers me still.

So part of my initial bad feelings about Pitch were clearly unfounded, but part I think still call for attention and I need to think about it more before the Day ends.



What bothers me about Boro is the way he painted G55 suspicious. To me her strong reaction to Rikae's question for Lottie looked very sincere indeed (as I said already back there). So Boro's attack looked to me like a wolf noticing a possible pray who has made herself vulnerable, and jumping for it. It's hard to see evil in a game, but it felt like a malvolent intent there.

Now what Greenie said about him walking away from a suspicion by ignoring it and "taking Greenie out from vote list", and what Legate said about his overall over-lenient manner are points I think merit considering as well.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I have grown a bit more suspicious of Lommy - in particular, after her list. She has lots of those nothing-saying remarks about most people, and about some people (like e.g. Boro, sally or Greenie) she has the sort of notes which would well be used in the scheme "how to easily defend a packmate without making it seem obvious". Of course, it is now early and might be she does not have any sort of good suspects etc., and I know that such a list can sometimes come up just randomly out of genuine thinking. But I am just putting this under my watch.

Apart from all that, I think Lommy's suspicion of Lottie based on her comments about Pitch is a reach.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Well, I never said anything about accusation there, as far as I know. And most certainly not in the beginning, you of all should know since we were the ones talking - so I hope this is not attempt to make people suspect *me* or something.

I think there are better ones to suspect than you. Steve comes to mind.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Not that I require that answer, but you still completely avoid the question of what the Angband were you thinking when you kept saying "let's not ..., let's ...", yet not doing anything about it. I don't really require the answer, but it puzzles me and it puzzles me why are you not explaining it.

All right, here it is: The discussion itself regarding the Acolyte wasn't, in my opinion, all that productive. We just don't have a lot of hard evidence, so I didn't want that to just go on and on all Day. What I was waiting for was reactions to our interplay over the matter. That's useful.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

This also does not sit well with me. It's more like gut feeling, and sort of the "defensive" tone or what... "I don't like... it's possible I am missing..." But then again, really, with Bom it's difficult. I find it hard to analyze him when he posts generally rather short, unealaborative posts - which may have substance (and may even be spot on), but it is just harder to say if he is making stuff up and faking it or just speaking his mind, if you know what I mean...

It's no defense, but Bom, evil or good, pretty much does this every time. It's gotten him lynched many a time.

x/d with Rikae