TIG XCIV– WHere the Stars Are Strange (Game thread)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

So, obviously, toDay I've just been provoking people to see their reactions.

Provoking? Where and whom, please? I must have missed that. You did not seem very much trying to provoke reactions to me...

I mean, somebody (not me, I am now going to sleep! - but I suggest people in general could do that if we want to try to figure out if Steve is lying or not) should check his toDay's discussion with Nogrod, whether it makes sense... like, trying to look at it in the light of as if Steve was the Seer knowing from the beginning of this Day (or the previous one?) that Nog was a Wolf.

Eönwë, did you dream about Nog on first or second Night, huh?

Gaps and holes in the presentation...

Originally Posted by Inziladun

That's good enough for me, Eönwë. I don't see what you as a Spy would have to gain by deception, it's easy enough to tell if you're on the level. And, as I've been so politely reminded, we have no Cobbler this time around.

++Nogrod

Add this to the list of things that makes me raise my eyebrows on Zil so high that I'm probably brushing the ceiling. Complete, unquestioned, immediate trust to such a *weird* person (sorry, Eönwë, meaning the style, of course)
with such a *weird* (= one which has some strange gap in it, the not naming the ordo thing???) revelation?

Once again: Why not to name the ordo??????????

EDIT: x-ed since my last

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Add this to the list of things that makes me raise my eyebrows on Zil so high that I'm probably brushing the ceiling. Complete, unquestioned, immediate trust to such a *weird* person (sorry, Eönwë, meaning the style, of course)
with such a *weird* (= one which has some strange gap in it, the not naming the ordo thing???) revelation?

If he's lying, we'll have a Spy toMorrow at the least. Why not try it? It's better than a stab in the proverbial dark.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Once again: Why not to name the ordo??????????

Because, if he does so toNight, the spies will just kill the ordo. If he waits, and gets a Ranger protect toNight, he can give us at the worst two innocents toMorrow, and a larger problem for the baddies.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Dun

It's likely I'll be voting long before DL as a rule here. It falls into my exercise time.

Yeah, sure, your “beat pillow with fist” exercise time.

Okay, to business (though we all know I must get my one-liners in).

Originally Posted by Legate, re: acolyte

Cooperation, yes, that's another possibility. Does not sound bad. Could be also that the Acolyte could be getting some "partial info" from the Seer or whatnot... and based on that could also choose sides... (For example: Night 1: Seer dreams of Freddy and sees him innocent, the Acolyte gets info "Seer dreamed of Freddy" or "Seer dreamed of innocent"... okay, that sounds stretched, I'm making up stuff from the top of my head, but you know, something... random...)

Quite possible, I’d say. Were I to compare it to another role, I would liken it to the dream catcher I had for my first game. Given last Night’s events, however, it is unlikely that’s the case.

Originally Posted by Steve

On the other hand, the 'cursed' idea could also work, where if there's an attempt to Night-kill or dream the acolyte, they become that role. Or even if they're the target of the other gifteds.

The idea could also work? This phrasing strikes me as odd. This was one of the things he said that bothered me yesterDay, but when I got home and tried to find it again, I couldn’t. :/

Originally Posted by Dun

What we can do is focus on finding the ones we know can kill us. The rest will just have to work itself out.

THANK YOU.

Originally Posted by Galadriel

I could not have done the foul deed. If I was the murderer, that would have meant that I foresaw my role in choosing the occupation, which would imply that I'm a Seer. I can't be both spy/wolf and seer at the same time!

Just making a note of this for now, in case it becomes relevant later. (Acolyte, etc.)

Originally Posted by Pitch

On the other hand, there's clearly a possibility that the Acolyte may turn, or be turned, to the dark side and use their powers, whichever they may be, against us - which is why I don't quite get Lommy's doubts whether "it's wise to discuss the details". I mean, why shouldn't we discuss what we may be up against? OK, it's all speculation at this point, but what's the harm in speculation? It's not like anybody is going to say "I think Finnegan's the Envoy and Freddy is the Acolyte".

Actually, I’d say that’s a distinct possibility. “I can’t figure out why X is acting this way. Oh! X is probably the acolyte, and they’re doing Y because their role entails Z.” You can see where wolves can easily benefit from this sort of discussion, right? (In the post following this one, Galadriel expresses a similar sentiment.)

Originally Posted by Rikae

It seems to me that with the relatively high number of wolves in this village, the acolyte is more likely helpful than harmful.

I certainly would hope so.

Originally Posted by Steve

Ok, what I don't like is how Inzil managed to change the discussion about the Acolyte into meta-discussion. While the former discussion lets people think about the game ahead and shows people's attitudes now, as well as maybe being interesting to look at in future, this discussion about whether we should discuss it is bad because it's giving everyone a place to hide. Legate replied first, but now everyone's repeating the same thing (which I thought had been general consensus for ages anyway- it was when I last played) about any discussion being better than no discussion.

I'm not saying that Inzil or Legate are bad, but people are too keen to bandwaggon onto that discussion and say nothing of value, while looking active and helpful.

I’m not saying he’s bad, but he’s bad. Wait, what?

Originally Posted by Pitch

Yes you can - if you're a turned acolyte. Maybe.

Also filing this one away for later. Interesting that he responded to this.

Originally Posted by Pitch

The birthday dreamer I remember just got a dream on a predetermined Night, without any role change involved (right, Lottie?). Otherwise, this is basically the same as Boro's mythomaniac, which looks like a coherent theory to me.

Serious question. Why did you specifically ask Lottie? It seems I’ve forgotten something.

Originally Posted by Galadriel

This post has made me very angry. Yes, angry. This way of saying it infuriates me. You could have just said "G55 didn't post anything on content", which would be more or less true. But the way you're saying it is more like "oh look Lottie, you are against people who talk banter and here's G55 posting along whom you haven't analyzed yet. Wanna say that particularily she is useless?"

Yes, I'm saying this despite the risk of flying up on people's suspicion lists. This is what I think of you, and I'm not afraid to say it. Let's all decide that G55 is not posting anything useless, but let that come from someone else's mouth, eh? If you suspect me, say so. If you don't like the way I post, say so. If I'm on the top of your lynch list, say so. Don't ask Lottie to say it for you, or talk to her as though it's a private conversation between you and her!


*deep breath*

/rant.

Well hello.


HERE ENDETH PAGE ONE. GOOD LORD.

Originally Posted by Rikae

I'm well aware of the risk of lynching an innocent who happens to look "odd" on day one. In fact, I'd suggest it may be more logical to leave Inzil alone for toDay precisely because he has made himself a target.

Is this the post that was pointed out later in the thread? If not, hello, hunter hint. How does the hunter’s pick change thing work? I need to check out the rules.

Originally Posted by Legate

Rikae - looks straightforward, I can follow her line of thoughts, no problem, does not seem to be manipulative in any way etc.

“Does not seem to be manipulative in any way” seems like an odd turn of phrase. I realize that Rikae’s always a bit....well, nuts, but “in any way” seems, to me, to suggest possible other knowledge. Of course Rikae’s not evil, so that actually would speak in his favor, except....wouldn’t a wolf want to align himself with an ordo, find an ally besides his mates?

Originally Posted by Boro, re: Galadriel

Your reaction though, it was unexpected seeing from you, because it was like reading one of my rants. "If you suspect me then suspect me!" And really over something that's normal, "Hey Rikae, what do you think about sally?" I can understand boiling over frustrations, but that was an immediate, highly-dramatic reaction.

Concurrence, we have it.

Originally Posted by Galadriel

Zil's last post makes him look more innocent than not. He's making sense.

Plus, if he's a wolf, I'd imagine he would have let the Alcolyte speculation run its course instead of jumping into the spotlight himself.

How do you know what he would do as a wolf? Hmmmm....

Originally Posted by Lommie

The thing that caught my attention this far the most was the odd case of Lottie and Zil going against Pitch for saying "in case we manage to lynch our seer early". I mean, come on, that was clearly sarcastic phrasing! I'm not sure which is worse, Lottie pointing it out as a suspicious passage, orZil implying it's a good point. (Unless Zil was sarcastic too? or referring to something else? I'm talking about #26)

A valid point, as I also recognized the sarcasm, but, my dear, we both know how often wolves hide behind sarcasm. I’m not saying that the others didn’t overreact to it, but it was a weird statement for him to make it. Something to file away, but not immediately lynch someone for, I’d say.

Originally Posted by Legate, re: Boro

He does then raise some more critical points about Gal, like pondering her possible guilt etc, but overall his tone seems to be rather friendly and *uses dictionary* lenient. Indulgent. Benevolent. (Hope you get the point)

I get the point, but I don’t agree with it. I think he’s being normal Boro, just not as on top of things. However, I obviously agreed with you about Bom, so we’ll call it even, yes?

Originally Posted by Galadriel

I would not want to see Zil lynched, as I said before. Can't see an Inzilawolf putting his neck in line like that.

If she hadn’t made her previous statement about how she thought an Inzilawolf would act, I wouldn’t have thought much of this, but the fact that she’s said such things twice worries me.

Originally Posted by Steve

G55 is impossible to read, but she seems innocent enough so far.

She’s impossible to read, but you’ve got a read on her? Another Steveism I don’t like.

Originally Posted by Boro, re: Galadriel

Well. Didn't look genuine to me. And perhaps I shouldn't look at it through my eyes, but I've done the same thing time and time again when I've been a wolf. Get too dramatic over the slightest of things. Not that G55 was faking being angry, but playing up being angry to hopefully get suspicion off her. As if her honor had been impugned. I've literally done the same thing, indignicantly objecting to people beating around the bush..."If you suspect me then suspect me!" stuff.

I find this to be an extremely valid point.


HERE ENDETH PAGE TWO.

Originally Posted by Lottie

People like Bom and Sally are basically expected to post little to nothing of substance on Day One. You and Legate are not. When people do what I'm not used to them doing, I pay attention more than when they do what I am used to them doing.

Ahem.

Originally Posted by Legate, re: Boro

Again. He is being too nice, if he is all right, I will eat my shoe, seriously. Normal Boro attacks people. This Boro defends people. No. It is incredibly stupid to suspect people based on that they are nice and such, but it was the very same Boro who had told me last time (after the game when I suspected him and then backed off and failed to lynch him) that I should not give up on this lead... so I won't. Nice Boro is most likely a Wolf. Normal Boro tends not to smudge honey all over you.

First of all, saying someone’s suspicions are “incredibly stupid” is not going to make me feel any better about you, sir. More importantly, people’s styles may change from game to game; for instance, Rikae is....no, she’s always insane and shouty in an endearing sort of say, but Nog....no, Nog always rails about lack of participation, though you....actually, you, Legate, can at times be both mirthful and serious. I get judging someone based on their demeanor, but saying that someone else is dumb for not doing the same? Stop it.

Even more importantly, what Boro does with his condiments is between us.

Originally Posted by Boro

You ever have one of those days where it feels like you can't remember what you've been doing all day? That's been me today...like I swear I've kept up-to-date on all the replies, and by Day 1 standards it appears moderately productive, yet...I haven't the faintest clue what the heck I've been reading. Nothing is sinking in, it's as if I'm reading words but not complete sentences with thoughts and ideas.

Flip yes. Just....goodness, this game is killing me for some reason. This post has taken me hours, simply because I keep needing to swan off for a bit and focus on something else. :/

Originally Posted by Galadriel

Though the last point - illogical as it is - points to Lottie's innocence rather than guilt, because, as with Zil, I don't think a wolf would deliberately say such a thing that would put him/her into the light.

Let the record show that this is the third time Galadriel has speculated about Dun’s werewolf style.

Originally Posted by Steve

Just because something doesn't automatically make him evil, it doesn't mean I have to like what he's doing, does it?

Fair enough, but the entire tone of your post (which starts with, “Do I need to explain myself again?”) is extremely worrisome. Why are you so worked up? Worried, perhaps?

Originally Posted by Shasta

...You're kidding. Who are you and what have you done with Nogrod?! That's so unlike what you'd normally say that I'm almost forced to look for a reason why you'd be protecting G55.

....I think you may be onto something.

Originally Posted by Shasta

Lommy - I was on the same page with her regarding the Lottie/Inzil Case of the Ambiguous Posts until Inzil mentioned that he was talking about something completely different. I thought that was the end of it until Lommy began talking about ways that that made Lottie look bad in a way that almost looked like she was looking for support.

I’d rather agree with this analysis as well, though this game has already had so many miscommunications that it’s getting ridiculous....

Originally Posted by Nog

If anyone is willing to help Bom with his suicide I'd be happy to lend a hand there.

....I know there’s an angry face at the end of that, but it still feels....well, didn’t he end up voting for Bom? I mean, really. The flip? Alarm. Bells. Ringing.

Originally Posted by Legate

Just for further reference - I wonder if, in case Lommy is perchance innocent and Boro is perchance Wolf, there might not be attempt to saveBoro by people voting Lommy. But that shall be seen.

Also keeping hold of this for later....


HERE ENDETH PAGE THREE.

Originally Posted by Shasta

I'll comment on the rest momentarily, but I want to get this thought out there as quickly as possible to give everyone time to consider - I would, personally, be not at all averse to lynching Bom. Think about it for a second - why, even beyond Legate's thought (which is currently the prevailing mood, sad as it is to say), I can nearly guarantee that later, down the road, someone will say "man I wish we could lynch Bom, but we can't now, it's too late in the game." Because, as I recall, Bom does this quite a bit, and people say exactly what has been said thus far - that is, chastising him for it but not really doing anything about it. Because the general opinion is either "oh that's just Bom" or "a wolf wouldn't do that, oh well."

So if people want to lynch Bom, I'm all for it. It's about time our threat of "participate or face a lynch" actually had some bite to it.

And look at that. Shasta and I agree again!

Originally Posted by Nog

Well Shasta, you put us in dire straits as to whether act like we say we should act or hunker down wishing for a better result and ignoring the principle. I'm really torn with it. The chances he's a wolf are what the pure chances are 4/16, but you're right that if we don't do it toDay, we will be cursing it later (supposing he continues the same way) when we don't feel any more we can afford checking him.

This. Does. Not. Sound. Natural.

Originally Posted by Lommie

We don't want a tie and die, do we, precious?

I repeat the above. Not. Natural. Actually, it does, I suppose, but it’s still worrisome. :/


HERE ENDETH PAGE FOUR (AND DAY ONE).

Originally Posted by Galadriel

So the alcolyte is some kind of werebear. *sigh* May the victims of the Night's terror rest in peace.

....Maybe? I still don’t know. >.<

Originally Posted by Galadriel

What bothers me is Nog’s flipfloppiness (does this run in the family?). In all seriousness, though – he starts out standing his ground against Boro, and keeps this up while the general mood is leaning towards me being innocent (Boro is clearly outnumbered). But then Shasta consistently and persistently sides with Boro, and Lommy joins in saying I’m not that shiny. And only now Nog has second thoughts about my outburst, and decides that it didn’t actually look good, and that my vote wasn’t well-explained either, and all that. And as the support for this keeps up, he repeats it more often.

Though when the village doesn’t actually end up lynching me, he backs off and says that it’s better that Bom is lynched.

This is actually....true-ish. I still don’t trust either of them though.

Yes, Elmer Fudd hunts wabbits, but the Coyote hunts the Roadrunner. Was Rikae trying to bait the wolves into thinking she was the Seer, who had dreamed Boro? But that would have meant she would have hunted Boro, and obviously, he's still with us. I don't know.

I don’t know, but I keep reading acolyte as coyote and vice versa. Perhaps it’s nearing bedtime. >.<

Originally Posted by Dun

After all Legate's focus on me yesterDay. he went and voted for Bom. So did Eönwë, who had previously said I would be his likely vote, and offered no reason for voting Bom, other than he didn't want to vote Lommy. Why didn't either of them vote for me, instead of going after Bom? Yes, believe me, I know Bom's antics like that can be frustrating. It still looks like a very easy bandwagon, though.

Regardless of whether I trust Dun, he’s got a good point here about Steve.

Originally Posted by Greenie, re: Lommie

This looked fishy to me, the need to emphasize her own innocence in a context where it wasn't called for. Some players do that all the time, but I don't think Lommy is one of those so it struck me as odd.

Point.

Originally Posted by Greenie

A Hunter hint? Why on earth would a Hunter leave hints?

For a logical hunter, it makes sense. “Hello, yes, I’m dead now, but I hunted this person, and they’re still alive, so that means they’re not evil. Enjoy the hearty beast.”

Originally Posted by Legate

...and making a camel out of a midget (Czech proverb - I think in English it's mountain out of a molehill) with this analysis and finishing with saying an innocent wouldn't do that at all.

I bloody love you. Ahem. Anyway, I like this point (or rather the points around it, the ones about Steve trying to set people up). I still don’t like you though. (You know what I mean.) Just because you’re right about him grasping doesn’t mean you’re not trying to set him up for setting someone up for setting up a shop in Kansas selling chocolate envelopes.

Greenie expresses the same sentiment in the next post, but she’s more....honest about it? I don’t know. It doesn’t feel as unnatural to me, though at this point I’m rather exhausted.


THUS ENDETH PAGE FIVE. SCREW YOU ALL. I’M DONE WITH THIS FOR NOW. (ALSO, I LOVE YOU ALL. NOW PLEASE DIE.)


At this point, let’s examine what Sally thinks....



Guilty:
Galadriel
Dun
Steve
Legate
Nog
Pitch

Probably Innocent:
Boro
Shasta
PomPom

Still Thinking:
Greenie
Lommie
Lottie


Before you ask, yes, I’ve seen Steve’s reveal, and I’ll deal with that in a moment, but I wanted to wrap up this stuff first so I wasn’t entirely colored by that revelation.


Or, as they say in Limerick....

Though no one found last Night’s kills funny
And Shasta’s not calling me honey
I still made a post
Of who I like most
And who I think we should send running


I've bolded and everything, and appreciate your patience. Also, I'm about to fall asleep....

[satansaloser2005]

Legate: Chill. Out. For reasons that someone else pointed out, even if Steve is the real seer, it would be unwise for him to reveal his dreams at this time. ToMorrow, sure, but not toDay. It would just get his dreams killed. Get some sleep, love. I know it'll make sense to you in the morning.

Steve: If you're lying, I'm going to end you.

Nog: Die, my pretty! Diiiiiiieeeeeeeee! Etc. Also, go to bed if you haven't already. <3


Considering that Nog is already on my top suspect list, I'm not at all hesitant to vote him. If I'm/we're wrong, I'll deal with it toMorrow (and also tomorrow). For now, however, I'm going with it, because Steve's reveal is in line with my own thoughts (and if he's lying, as previously mentioned, I can kill him, which is equally fun).

++Nog


Or, as they say in Limerick....

It's time for Miss Sally to sleep
So I must choose who not to keep
So let us not worry
If Nogrod is furry
If not, upon Steve we will creep


(Not at all my best, but I'm seriously falling asleep. I wish you all the best, and may we all be alive come morning.)

[Boromir88]

I think it's my sleep time too. Not much more I think needs to be said about this, other than I'm amused by Nog's desperate pleas. Your scenario about the Acolyte being for the wolves is making so many assumptions. Assumptions that you can't possibly know/make, unless you are privy to info no one else is, and appear to be making up any possible cracked conspiracy theory to save yourself.

For anyone coming back to vote, seriously, read Nog's posts from #199 and on...I keep having the "he's throwing everything including the kitchen sink" feeling.

++Nogrod

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Note - for this game it's likely I'll only be active during the latter half of the Day, as Sally said - the DL is 6 am my time, so yeah.

In any case, I'll comment on the most recent happenings real fast before I go back and do a post-by-post commentary.

Eonwe - Seer
Nog - Wolf
Inzil - Acolyte

Seriously? Guys. Look at the Eruhen kill. It's pretty clear at this point that the Acolyte, if not a traditional werebear, at least has the power to kill by himself (I say him because Nog being a wolf doesn't mean his points about Inzil being the Acolyte aren't valid - I've thought so myself since yesterday, as did Rikae apparently).

Nog is a wolf. Fine. Lynch him tomorrow. Lynching one wolf out of four isn't going to have any short-term effects - if we lynch Inzil (who clearly, at this point, doesn't have the best interests of the village in mind), we drop the number of kills per night to one.

++Inzil

Also, Boro? Your most recent post? Looks exactly like Glirdywolf from the Alice in Wonderland game of Wilwa's - you know, the one where it turned out he really was a wolf who was that eager to bus a packmate. Not really helping your case there, buddy.

[Eönwë]

Ok, well I don't think there's much to be said except
++Nogrod


And yeah, I forgot ask whether people think I should reveal the name of the innocent toMorrow (obviously not toDay, because there'd be nothing to gain from it at this point except for the wolves having someone to kill- tomorrow, another innocent voice might be nice to have, and I thought that was pretty obvious).


Legate looks pretty bad to me, seeming determined to suspect me and calling for me to reveal innocents (Which as I said would be pointless, because now, while they could be killed, if I reveal, they will definitely be killed). Just wanted to put that out there.

And I don't think it's wise to try a double-lynch for the acolyte when we don't even know what the role does yet.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Eonwe

And I don't think it's wise to try a double-lynch for the acolyte when we don't even know what the role does yet.

We know it kills people. I think that's quite enough.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

However, I didn't even consider a double-lynch idea. That would solve the conundrum quite nicely. Who's left to vote? Can we pull it off?