Three Times The Hobbit?

[Kuruharan]

I have something of an issue with the idea that it is "ok" for Jackson to be making a glorified bit of fan fiction with all kinds of original characters and events. My problem is Tolkien's name will be attached to it. Jackson is taking his own characters and ideas and then attaching the name of Tolkien to them when Tolkien didn't have anything to do with it. I consider this worse than normal fan fiction because most fan fic authors have the honesty and humility to not pass their work off as some kind of representation of what Tolkien wrote. Jackson is trying to do this.

If Jackson wants to do his own fantasy series, by all means, more power to him, let him do it! But, the catch with that is he would have to put his own name on it and the odds are Peter Jackson's Mayor of the Foozles is not going to attract the attention, the respect and most importantly the revenue of J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. These movies are not just a glorified piece of fan fiction. He is claiming the mantle of Tolkien in order to make himself buckets and buckets of money because he knows nothing that could come out of his own brain could be nearly as successful. Maddeningly he is trashing Tolkien's stories in the process. Jackson would be nothing without Tolkien. Most likely comparatively few people in the world would have heard of him as I am firmly convinced he is only a middling storyteller, at best, on his own.

I don't have a problem in the world with someone trying to make something of themselves (I will admit to a certain level of unhappiness that he did it by virtue of pulling himself up by Tolkien's bootstraps). However, I do have serious problems with the grandiose levels of greed, cynicism and outright and blatant manipulation in which Jackson is currently indulging himself. I find it disgusting and revolting.

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

He is claiming the mantle of Tolkien in order to make himself buckets and buckets of money because he knows nothing that could come out of his own brain could be nearly as successful. Maddeningly he is trashing Tolkien's stories in the process. Jackson would be nothing without Tolkien.

While these are quite strong terms they do reflect some of my own frustrations, mostly with the incredible hysteria which surrounds the films. It is almost as if at some point Professor Tolkien became the background figure while Peter Jackson is the "genius bringing Middle-earth to life" or what have you. I feel like more praise is owed to the Professor; it is as if the filmmakers have snatched his life's work out of his hands and run off with it to gather all the kudos while he gets left behind. Yes, the films were very successful, but at the end of the day it's Professor Tolkien who should be praised moreso than them. I don't know if this is the case, but I really hope that Jackson and co regularly express their gratitude to Professor Tolkien for being the origin of their success.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

I don't know if this is the case, but I really hope that Jackson and co regularly express their gratitude to Professor Tolkien for being the origin of their success.

I certainly agree with you in spirit. However, I fear I am so jaded that I would probably think they were just saying the politically correct thing rather than having actual respect for Tolkien's works.

To me, the best way for them to show respect for Tolkien is make a movie that reflects what Tolkien wrote.

Alas, Bethberry's point is relevant to this very issue.

Sadly, Kuru, I'm not sure this time they are acknowledging Tolkien at all.

[Snowdog]

Sadly, its what its come down to. The original is swamped in the movie and gaming hype. One can't talk Tolkien books without someone bringing the movies or even that games into it. The movies killed the Tolkien story legacy, and now is only a cult following. As for myself, I'm not even interested in these so-called Hobbit movies. PJ the usurper is using The Hobbit to pad his coffers, an the PJ movie worshippers are loving him for it. Me, I'll likelywatch the movies at some point, but I'm not getting sucked into the hype that got me interested in the Fellowship. I'm with Christopher on this one.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Snowdog

Sadly, its what its come down to. The original is swamped in the movie and gaming hype. One can't talk Tolkien books without someone bringing the movies or even that games into it. The movies killed the Tolkien story legacy, and now is only a cult following.

I'd like to see stats on how membership of sites like this took off following the films, and I suspect it would have boomed. And I don't know of any members here who first came to Tolkien via the films who disregard Tolkien's writing, quite the opposite! And in the UK, one unexpected bonus has also been the boom in SF literature, TV and film. The films may have made SF 'cool' or it may be that media types realised that the geek market was huge and hungry for more fun, but I strongly suspect that we'd have been without the Doctor Who revival or series like Being Human and Life On Mars without that sea-change.

I think Tolkien's writing is more than strong enough to weather any mere film

[Mithalwen]

I don't know.. maybe the ones who come here are the ones who might have found the books anyway - it is often forgotten that LOTR was the book of the century by popular vote before the films came out by those who seem to think Tolkien owes Jackson (seriously how many wnent to FOTR because they were mad about Heavenly Creatures compared to those because they were Tolkien fans?). The Hobbit is according to an article I kept but never got round to posting one of the handful of books all booksellers have permanently in stock and have had since it's publication.

I have met several people who have told me that they love Lord of the Rings and then said of course they haven't read the books... And everytime they say that an elf dies.....

[Lalwendë]

I doubt anyone would have gone to see FotR on the back of Heavenly Creatures, the audience is very different! I should imagine that many went because they wanted to see whether Jackson had managed to 'film the unfilmable'. But before the films came out there was an acknowledgement that they would have to secure the Tolkien fans' buy in if the films were to be a success.

Fan buy-in is always a known factor with this kind of film. And why these types of films which come on the back of a book with a massive cult following are incredibly hard to make. Look at the various films of Alan Moore's work (he famously refuses to have anything to do with them, he takes the Chris T approach!) - Watchmen secured the fans' approval and was a success, whereas The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen was not, despite being a decent film if you were not already a fan of the comic book.

Then you also get the kinds of fans who will go and see them whether they are keen or not, it's just something they need to appraise for themselves. I'll go and see them even if they are bad films (and I think they will be very enjoyable, so I don't have that worry), just as I lap up Doctor Who even though I'm really not very keen on what Moffat is doing with it - it's just that I prefer RTD's work, much as I prefer the books to the films.

As for people who have only seen the films and think they speak with authority, that's just an ideal chance for me to spread the gospel

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I have met several people who have told me that they love Lord of the Rings and then said of course they haven't read the books... And everytime they say that an elf dies.....

I was introduced to a friend of a friend once, like so: "Come and meet ______, he's a LotR fan too!"

So obviously I said "Hey man! Nice to meet you. So, did Balrogs have wings?" *slight chuckle*

"What's a Balrog?"

[Alcidas]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

I'd like to see stats on how membership of sites like this took off following the films, and I suspect it would have boomed. And I don't know of any members here who first came to Tolkien via the films who disregard Tolkien's writing, quite the opposite! And in the UK, one unexpected bonus has also been the boom in SF literature, TV and film. The films may have made SF 'cool' or it may be that media types realised that the geek market was huge and hungry for more fun, but I strongly suspect that we'd have been without the Doctor Who revival or series like Being Human and Life On Mars without that sea-change.

I think Tolkien's writing is more than strong enough to weather any mere film

Very good point. I have been "into" the fantasy genre from the time I first started collecting Conan the Barbarian comics in the 1970s. In the 1980s and 90s, fantasy was not widely popular, and you did not have the kind of large-scale interest in it that there is nowadays. I think the LOTR trilogy did increase interest in the fantasy genre. Yes, there are problems with the films, but they are certainly of better quality than most other fantasy films out there.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Alcidas

Yes, there are problems with the films, but they are certainly of better quality than most other fantasy films out there.

In my view, this is more of a sad indictment of the fantasy film genre than anything else.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Alcidas

Very good point. I have been "into" the fantasy genre from the time I first started collecting Conan the Barbarian comics in the 1970s. In the 1980s and 90s, fantasy was not widely popular, and you did not have the kind of large-scale interest in it that there is nowadays. I think the LOTR trilogy did increase interest in the fantasy genre. Yes, there are problems with the films, but they are certainly of better quality than most other fantasy films out there.

I always think of the period between the end of the 70s and 2000 as the Dark Ages of Fantasy, because it was seen as deeply uncool to the point of ridicule to be a fantasy fan (even though lots of us still were). There's something to be said for being non-mainstream, but it went beyond that during that period. And aside from rare examples, the films that were made during that period were also bad.

I almost feel like an old geek veteran with me war wounds having weathered being a Tolkien fan all through those dark years.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

My problem is Tolkien's name will be attached to it. Jackson is taking his own characters and ideas and then attaching the name of Tolkien to them when Tolkien didn't have anything to do with it. I consider this worse than normal fan fiction because most fan fic authors have the honesty and humility to not pass their work off as some kind of representation of what Tolkien wrote. Jackson is trying to do this.

Sadly, Kuru, I'm not sure this time they are acknowledging Tolkien at all. The poster that was released for Comic Con 2012 says that The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey is "from the director of the 'Lord of the Rings' trilogy. But it doesn't any where mention the name Tolkien. (I don't think I've ever used three smilies in a row here on the Downs.)

Hobbit movie poster