One Thing That I Think Tolkien Did Wrong and Jackson Did Right

[TheAzn]

Originally Posted by blantyr

The notion that fortified cities often have less siege machinery than those outside the walls seems historical. One would think that if a people expends effort and money to build these big walls they would spend some effort on catapults and similar devices. Yet, does anyone know of walled cities with platforms for siege engines built into the walls?

Hey Blantyr, this is an interesting question.

One example that springs to my mind is the fortress of Euryalos connected to the New Wall of Syracuse, on the west side of the Epipolai Plateau. This is after all where the catapult was invented. The katapeltikon (arrow projector) and lithobolos (stone projector). Later the Romans called them Catapulta and Ballista respectively. The fortress of Euryalos was built solely for the purpose of having stone projectors and arrow projectors on top of. This held the North of Syracuse safe until 212 BCE when Marcellus invaded it.


Other than Euryalos, there's been many more finds in Greek territories of walled artillery positions. Schramm excavated and analyzed the ruins at Ephyra finding the same. Washer-plates from catapults were found, and the walls were of sufficient width and volume that they were not just meant for soldiers.
Source: Greek and Roman Artillery 399 BC-AD 363

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To keep with the European theme for a moment, one need to look no further than the great Julius Caesar himself.
Even in something temporary like Roman camps, ballistas were kept within wooden "towers", ready to be used at any moment.
Sources: Caesar: Life of A Colossus

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But what about other cultures? In terms of China, there are both textual as well as archeological evidence of wall mounted artillery from as far back as the Han dynasty. I believe that Joseph Needham's volume on catapults covered this the best.

Source: Science and Civilisation in China: Volume 5, Chemistry and Chemical Technology, Part 6, Military Technology: Missiles and Sieges by Joseph Needham and Robin Yates

I am not familiar with the artilleries of other Non-European cultures, so I might have to do more research on them.

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[Legolas]

A friendly reminder...

Don't take personal offense to differing opinions.

It's not necessary to call people wrong, confused, or ignorant, especially when dealing with less explicit features of the stories.

Continue to make your case without personal remarks.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by TheAzn

Hey Boromir88. I do not think that my new argument should be hard to understand. To gain clarity, please read the posts titled:
My Grand Refutation to the General Counter-Arguments Made Against Me / My Grand Refutation to the General Counter-Arguments Made Against Me(Cont'd) / My Grand Refutation to the General Counter-Arguments Made Against Me (FINISH)

When I made that post, it was in response to your original post and post #24. Your original post containing large inaccuracies and post 24 containing irrelevant arguments about Grima throwing a palantir off Orthanc. Hence, why I was not following your original argument.

I can not follow arguments you had not posted yet, because I can not read arguments that do not exist. However, now that you have posted your latest counters and kindly directed me to them, I can follow quite well...

Originally Posted by TheAzn

[B]
So why am I excited? I am not just confirming the basic fact that Professor Tolkien, like every human authors out there, are not infallible. What I am excited about is that I believe that I have found one of Professor Tolkien’s greatest writing mistakes; I believe that I have found one of the greatest plot holes in the entire Lord of the Ring series. The Minas Tirith that Professor Tolkien described is being utilized nowhere near its highest potential, very nonsensical when we are talking about preparing for life and death struggles.

With regards to this, and your latest arguments, I believe you have purchased boots many sizes larger than the ones you wear now. But good luck in this lofty endeavor of proving why an author who fought in brutal trench warfare, and lived through another brutal war, left a gaping plot hole and does not in fact understand the costs and realities of warfare.