Tolkien's Funny Bone

[Bêthberry]

Thanks for all the replies! Attitudes towards humour and comedy make for some very interesting observations, I think.

Morth, I doubt we need to go back to Latin. I think anyone familiar with The Ring of Words: Tolkien and the Oxford English Dictionary will be well aware of how words change meaning, such as the Old English wan, which began as 'dark, gloomy, black' to become applied to pale or faint things, a change in etymology which Tolkien worked on.

Puddleglum, so nice to see you back and around! You raise the intriguing point that Tolkien was writing about 'great stories that never end', which is a rather modern concept in that it is the process that receives attention rather than the denouement, despite his ideas about eucatastrophe.

Originally Posted by jallanite

Your quotation to me is a good indication as to why it was foolish for some medieval critics to try to define every tale as either a tragedy or comedy. A tale can be both or neither and still be an excellent tale.

Critical theory is still attempting to do what those critics tried, however, in that it attempts to explain how literature works on us. I think, in fairness to the medieval and classical critics, it can said they were trying to understand how literary works affect us rather than solely defining quality.

In looking at the progress of The Silm, we can find far more whimsey and humour in the early versions, particularly in BoLT, than in the edition which Christopher Tolkien produced. Tinfang Warbel comes to mind most immediately, as well as the strong element of mirth and joy in the Cottage of Lost Play. yes, the stories are separate stories, but I find it intriguing to see the variations in tone.

Originally Posted by Morth[/quote

But there are elements of satire and dark humor throughout the Divine Comedy, particularly in Hell (Inferno), where Dante has relegated many of his political enemies (like Filippo Argenti, who is torn to pieces along the River Styx), and a pope or two (Boniface VIII and Celestine V). And considering that many virtuous "pagans" are better off in Hell than many Christians, there is a sardonic sense of humor in Dante's jibes at the established order, higher clergy and aristocrats in early Renaissance Italy

I think one major idea current today about comedy is its subversiveness, starting with Aristophanes' Lysistrata. Parody for example can be pleasant and respectful or undercutting. Is there anything similarly sardonic or subversive in the Silm?

(N.B. I should not attempt to write posts here while commenting on FB at the same time. )