Sex Amongst the Maiar (and the Other Beings in Arda)

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

No, that is exactly the point! The Wizards, and it is stated explicitly, were incarnate for a reason. They were exposed to all possible problems (and delights) mortal inhabitants of M-E could face. To put it in a more straightforward manner, it is not unimaginable for me to have a Wizard decide (Melianesque, if you find that easier to imagine with such comparison) "hey, I found a wonderful mortal woman and we fell in love and I want to spend my life with her in a cottage hidden in the mountains, screw the war with Sauron". It would not be any different from, for instance, Radagast deciding that he'd rather spend his days tramping in the wilderness.

Ah, I see your point. It is interesting though, that Radagast fell in love with animals and the wilderness, and not some woman.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by TheGreatElvenWarrior

Ah, I see your point. It is interesting though, that Radagast fell in love with animals and the wilderness, and not some woman.

I guess that would come back to what you were talking about with Bethberry, and with which I agree, as in, by no means would I want to diminish any sexual desires among older people, but generally it probably isn't as common or as strong, and with this I would say that the Wizards were indeed not of "that cathegory" and so their distractions would come from different hobbies, interests, and so on. Especially if you take into account that they were in the position of having an entirely new world to explore, literally.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by TheGreatElvenWarrior

Ah, I see your point. It is interesting though, that Radagast fell in love with animals and the wilderness, and not some woman.

Perhaps the goat sounded like Stevie Nicks.

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

I am resurrecting this thread because I love it and it's my baby and I can't let it die. My ideas have changed since I originally posted this and I feel like I should add something.

Originally Posted by Snowdog

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that Sauron was Morgoth's mate yet....

Okay, I'm putting the idea out there about Sauron being Morgoth's (um?) concubine? Lover?

Originally Posted by Zigûr

I just noticed this. Is it a metaphorical statement? Surely it is well-established that Sauron was never just a big floating eyeball. Nonetheless I can't think that Sauron, whose first fixation was Order and later simply hatred for those who appeared to obstruct his vision of Order, would have had much interest in anything sexual even at his most incarnate level of spiritual degradation. Sauron seems to me to have been an obsessive person, who in the Third Age at least had two overriding goals: the conquest of the West of Middle-earth and the recovery of the Rings of Power (and especially, of course, the One Ring). He does not strike me as the kind of person who put those fixations aside for the sake of his leisure.

After Sauron's physical form was destroyed, he was not a giant eyeball but, well, I imagine him as being just energy at that point. He still has a will and opinions, but it's not like he can act them out. I guess he's mostly like a ghost in physicality.

Anyway, I agree with you about Sauron being obsessive. He always struck me as being so totally focused on dominating the world, that he didn't care a bit about anything else. Perhaps he used sex as a way to dominate his subordinates when he was still Morgoth's right hand man. But I still view Sauron as being too busy with the whole megalomania thing to be bothered with the relationship or even physical part of sex.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by TheGreatElvenWarrior

But I still view Sauron as being too busy with the whole megalomania thing to be bothered with the relationship or even physical part of sex.

That makes me think of Bored of the Rings, which had Sorhed (Sauron) and Schlob (Shelob) being the parents of "nine strapping wraiths".

Really though, why would Maia want or need physical relationships? They weren't necessary from a biological perspective. Maia were only "guests" in Arda, not part of it (Melian is a special case: her being smitten with Thingol was plainly something fated to happen: she had no will in the matter).

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by TheGreatElvenWarrior

After Sauron's physical form was destroyed, he was not a giant eyeball but, well, I imagine him as being just energy at that point. He still has a will and opinions, but it's not like he can act them out. I guess he's mostly like a ghost in physicality.

Which time losing his body do you mean?

He kind of made a habit of it.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

That makes me think of Bored of the Rings, which had Sorhed (Sauron) and Schlob (Shelob) being the parents of "nine strapping wraiths".

Really though, why would Maia want or need physical relationships? They weren't necessary from a biological perspective. Maia were only "guests" in Arda, not part of it (Melian is a special case: her being smitten with Thingol was plainly something fated to happen: she had no will in the matter).

Why would the Valar? Yet they did. Or at least had spouses.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Why would the Valar? Yet they did. Or at least had spouses.

Spouses, yes. Relationships? Obviously. Some seemed to have the need for companionship to (I shudder to say it) "complete" them. The physical side is what I question though. I would posit that physicality was even a "base" concept for them (hence Morgoth's "evil lust" for Lúthien).

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

The physical side is what I question though. I would posit that physicality was even a "base" concept for them (hence Morgoth's "evil lust" for Lúthien).

I agree. I wish I could find that quote about the difference between Valar marriages and those of the Eruhíni, but maybe I just imagined it...