Origins of the Great Goblin

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

(...) Later, though, in "Morgoth's Ring", the Maia--Orc concept appears: first in some notes on Orc origin ("Myths Transformed" VIII) in which Tolkien is more-or-less "thinking aloud", trying out different possibilities to see if they work. At this point, at least as a sole origin, he seems to reject it, but then Maia-Orcs show up again in two more texts (IX and X), now as special, "greater" Orcs (rather than being their main source).

Perhaps I've been too much influenced by texts IX and X, but I took VIII to also describe the Maiar orcs as one kind of orc compared to the greater numbers of 'regular orcs', which in this text turn out to be perverted beasts.

Reading it again, I admit there's not much evidence for this in VIII itself, but if I recall correctly Tolkien does refer to the Maiar-orcs as primitive, and much more powerful and perilous -- I took that to mean more powerful than the regular orcs, about whom Tolkien was still musing about -- but seemingly not for long until the beast idea came to him.

In other words, I did not take the 'Maiar section' in VIII to be about the sole origin, but rather Tolkien reflecting on whether they could be part of the picture here; although I see how it can be read that way in any case, and cannot claim my interpretation is correct.

And again, perhaps reading VIII now more times after reading texts IX and X is the real reason. I can't really recall my interpretation when first reading VIII in Myths Transformed, which came before IX or X...

... I assume