Luthien weilding Vilya

[Tar Elenion]

Originally Posted by Belegorn

True, the superlatives are there, in abundance. Like in your first quote some of the superlatives given to his brothers are applied to Fëanor as well, "Fëanor was made the mightiest in all parts of body and mind, in valour,... in strength" [Sil, p. 112]

Also applied to him are "beauty" and "understanding", whereas with Finarfin "fairest" and "wise of heart" are used. So one can wonder, how is Fingolfin said to be the strongest of the brothers when Fëanor is said to be "mightiest in all parts of body" as well as in "strength", and "endurance".

Exactly. To much stock can be put in the superlatives.
[/quote]
Your quote from the note reads to me in this way: "especially Elrond" refers to him, like Galadriel, with conceptions of being able to wield the One, not necessarily Elrond having a better aptitude of wielding it because if you read on you will see them in the same light, apart from Gandalf.[/quote]
I can't read it that way. The appearing to conceive is not in doubt. Hence the 'If so' necessarily refers to the 'aptitude', or ability to use it against Sauron.

As your following quote showed, however, it would have ended up being a deceit regardless of the wielder.

Hear me out on this and tell me what you think. Galadriel is interesting because it is said of her in The History of Galadriel and Celeborn; "she grew to be tall beyond the measure even of the women of the Noldor; she was strong of body, mind, and will, a match for both the loremasters and athletes of the Eldar in the days of their youth." [p. 241] What is interesting to me is the part that says, "a match for both the loremasters..." and the inquiries about Galadriel's fighting prowess. It is said she was a staunch defender against her uncle's massacre at Alqualondë. This is basically the only text that I know of her mentioned in actual combat. Now, the text I quoted says she was a match for the loremasters. Interestingly enough a text reads that the loremasters of the Noldor:

"Nor were the 'loremasters' a separate guild of GENTLE SCRIBES, soon burned by the Orks of Angband upon pyres of books. They were mostly even as Fëanor, the greatest, kings, princes and warriors, such AS THE VALIANT CAPTAINS OF GONDOLIN" [The Peoples of Middle-earth, Note 23]

In other words they were not nerds or some such with no aptitude to fight. Rather than being gentle scribes they are "as the valiant captains of Gondolin". Therefore, perhaps it is safe to assume, that Galadriel too was such as these and would probably be able to best Elrond in a sword fight.

My thoughts in short are: 'Athlete' does not necessarily equal warrior, 'mostly' does not equal all, Elven-women, as Galadriel did here, would fight fiercely in defense of home and kindred, this does not necessarily mean they were soldiers. This is the only circumstance we have of Galadriel engaging in physical battle (see for example, Celeborn led the army to Dol Guldur, Galadriel (much like Luthien at Minas Tirith) just utilized her power to throw down the walls, after the fighting was done), whereas Elrond seems to have participated in the War of Wrath, and fought through battles and sieges in the Second (and possibly Third) Age. So Galadriel besting Elrond in physical combat would be dubious at best (much less a Fingolfin or Fingon or Maedhros).

[Belegorn]

Originally Posted by Tar Elenion

My thoughts in short are: 'Athlete' does not necessarily equal warrior, 'mostly' does not equal all, Elven-women, as Galadriel did here, would fight fiercely in defense of home and kindred, this does not necessarily mean they were soldiers. This is the only circumstance we have of Galadriel engaging in physical battle (see for example, Celeborn led the army to Dol Guldur, Galadriel (much like Luthien at Minas Tirith) just utilized her power to throw down the walls, after the fighting was done), whereas Elrond seems to have participated in the War of Wrath, and fought through battles and sieges in the Second (and possibly Third) Age. So Galadriel besting Elrond in physical combat would be dubious at best (much less a Fingolfin or Fingon or Maedhros).

Certainly "athlete" does not mean warrior. Many athletes are not warriors. Some may become warriors, or vice-versa, or be both. My point, however, was not Galadriel's comparisons to others as an athlete, but her comparison to the loremasters. The loremasters are pointed out as being, not "gentle scribes", but "as the valiant captains of Gondolin". They were warriors. This is what I meant which is why I quoted the texts for you. The one where she is compared not only to the athletes, but also to the loremasters, "a match for BOTH the loremasters AND athletes of the Eldar in the days of their youth" and the other text describing the loremasters not as "gentle scribes" but as warriors. If this is the case, again I ask you, is it safe to assume that Galadriel was not only a great athlete, but also an excellent warrior.

[Tar Elenion]

Originally Posted by Belegorn

Certainly "athlete" does not mean warrior. Many athletes are not warriors. Some may become warriors, or vice-versa, or be both. My point, however, was not Galadriel's comparisons to others as an athlete, but her comparison to the loremasters. The loremasters are pointed out as being, not "gentle scribes", but "as the valiant captains of Gondolin". They were warriors. This is what I meant which is why I quoted the texts for you. The one where she is compared not only to the athletes, but also to the loremasters, "a match for BOTH the loremasters AND athletes of the Eldar in the days of their youth" and the other text describing the loremasters not as "gentle scribes" but as warriors. If this is the case, again I ask you, is it safe to assume that Galadriel was not only a great athlete, but also an excellent warrior.

I think I addressed that when I said mostly does not equal all. But yes, I think it is safe to assume that Galadriel was not a warrior. I think it quite safe to assume that in purely physical combat, Galadriel would not have been a match for Elrond, or Fingolfin or Fingon or Celeborn (or Aragorn or Legolas or Gimli). Depending on what weapons Aredhel regularly used in the hunt, I would presume Aredhel as having a better ability in physical combat.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Tar Elenion

I think I addressed that when I said mostly does not equal all. But yes, I think it is safe to assume that Galadriel was not a warrior. I think it quite safe to assume that in purely physical combat, Galadriel would not have been a match for Elrond, or Fingolfin or Fingon or Celeborn (or Aragorn or Legolas or Gimli). Depending on what weapons Aredhel regularly used in the hunt, I would presume Aredhel as having a better ability in physical combat.

Oh I think she was a match for Celeborn And I think ahe could cope qith Gimli and Legolas..on a more serious note.

[Belegorn]

Originally Posted by Tar Elenion

I think I addressed that when I said mostly does not equal all.

Thanks for the replies. I was just thinking that since Tolkien described Galadriel being "of Amazonian disposition" [Letter #348] and the Amazons were warrior women, that her association with the loremasters who were said to be warriors, and her participation in the battle at Alqualondë were also pointing to her being a warrior. I therefore disagree with your assertion that she would not be a match for others in physical combat.

"Even after the MERCILESS assault upon the Teleri and the rape of their ships, though she fought fiercely against Fëanor in defense of her mother's kin, she did not turn back." [HoG&C, p. 242]

"In Fëanor's revolt that followed the Darkening of Valinor Galadriel had no part: indeed she with Celeborn fought heroically in defense of Alqualondë against the assault of the Noldor" [p. 243]

It is said that, "swords were drawn, and a bitter fight was fought upon the ships" at that battle in which, "many were slain upon either side" [Annals of Aman, p. 116] Further a note says, "Finrod and Galadriel (whose husband was of the Teleri) fought against Fëanor in defense of Alqualondë." [p. 128]

In my opinion I'd assume that Galadriel among other things was also a warrior capable of wielding weapons of war and defending herself/others. She had an Amazonian disposition, and was also compared to the loremasters who are warriors, and fought in a battle in which many had died wielding weapons of war or drowned in the sea.