Gollum questions.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Would they have referred to themselves as halflings? I suppose it depends on their proximity to other races but I wonder if they thought they were normal and the other races giants.

For what it's worth, the UT section The Hunt For the Ring says that Gollum's perception of his own race was a factor in Sauron not knowing precisely who or where "Baggins" was.

Gollum would not know the term "Hobbit," which was local and not a universal Westron word. He would probably not use "Halfling" since he was one himself, and Hobbits disliked the name.

[Mithalwen]

Thanks inzil, I had an idea there was an issue with the term.

[Galin]

Hey when you're three foot six and a seven foot Numenorean calls you Banakil you just say 'thank you' and bake him some tarts.

Or something

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Galin

Hey when you're three foot six and a seven foot Numenorean calls you Banakil you just say 'thank you' and bake him some tarts.

Or something

Or if you're Pippin, maybe you'd say "At least I'm not a half-wit."

[jallanite]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I recalled this statement from Unfinished Tales but did not remember that it occurred there. A search through the indices of some volumes of HoME proved fruitless, so I gave up the search.

Thanks.

Note that in Bree Men were known as “Big Folk” and Hobbits were often known as “Little Folk”. The same terms appear to be sometimes used in the Shire. At least when discussing the Black Rider in the chapter “Three Is Company” Pippin and Frodo both use the term “Big People” and Sam recalls his father using the term “Big Folk”. In the chapter “The Scouring of the Shire” one of the ruffians uses the term “little folk”.

[Mithalwen]

Oh that is true enough and I suppose it is a fine distinction in practice, but psychologically there is a difference between acknowledging one is smaller than other races and defining oneself as half sized.

[jallanite]

I quite agree.

The names Perian and its translation Halfling were doubtless not popular because the names suggest that those who bare them are only half the size of proper people: Men and Elves.

It is not surprising that these people eventually preferred the non-Westron name Hobbit which had no such negative meaning.

That “Little Folk” was also popular in Breeland is not surprising as neither it nor “Big Folk” indicates that either size is necessarily the proper one.

[Galadriel55]

Instead of hobbits calling themselves halflings, it would be more logical for them to call the Big People doublings.

Just thought I'd put the weird thought out there, because I agree with the above comments and have nothing else to add.

[jallanite]

Agreed.

I suppose that Doubling, unlike Halfling, might have seemed too obviously a politically correct invention to catch on.

I suppose the hobbits might instead have been called beardless-dwarves. But that name may have been too long for comfortable use: “‘A very nice well-spoken gentlebeardlessdwarf is Mr. Bilbo as I’ve always said’, the Gaffer declared.”

[Mithalwen]

Yes, Galadriel, I wondered if the y might regard men as giants which would perhaps have misled Sauron.
Also the halfling term true when Numenoreans were at their tallest compared to not the tallest hobbits. Now the same UT note clarifys that Shire Hobbits at the time of LOTR were 3 to 4 foot and the exceptions were taller.

So assuming that the diminished dunedain were still generally six foot plus and taller than the Rohirrim who were in turn taller than Breelanders.. it ia likely that the current Britih average height for a man of 5"10 would have been tall for Bree and maybe standard around 5"6 . So with Hobbits benefitting from several generations of settled farming tending closer to four, it means that in and around the Shire and Bree most inhabitants are likely to be between 3"6 and 5"6 and with dwarves around bridging the still noticeable division between big and little, it is too much of continuum for a term such as halfling to be meaningful. Focussing on another distinction such as beardlessness does seem quite plausible in that context.