Gandalf's comment about Frodo

[Lotrelf]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

LOTR Elf I didn't mean a physical death, per se, but I feel that he has passed the point of no return.

Yes, I understood what you were trying to say by Death. But the Morgul-blade wound made him like Glorfindel instead of making like a Wraith. He'd never be the same again. True. But because of the wound he, instead of diminishing, started growing.
The death you're talking about, definitily took place, but when the Ring was destroyed. He came home, altered, completely. It was something like "he could not go on in the world of mortals because he was like a spirit now." Makes sense?

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Lotrelf

Yes, I understood what you were trying to say by Death. But the Morgul-blade wound made him like Glorfindel instead of making like a Wraith. He'd never be the same again. True. But because of the wound he, instead of diminishing, started growing.
The death you're talking about, definitily took place, but when the Ring was destroyed. He came home, altered, completely. It was something like "he could not go on in the world of mortals because he was like a spirit now." Makes sense?

We may have to differ on this. But I don't think I am conveying perhaps what I mean well enough. But I certainly think that he passed the point of no return long before the Ring was destroyed.

[Lotrelf]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

We may have to differ on this. But I don't think I am conveying perhaps what I mean well enough. But I certainly think that he passed the point of no return long before the Ring was destroyed.

Yes, that's what I meant in my previous post! I just said he didn't "die." His death also means that his "human (or Hobbit)" part died with the destruction of the Ring and Gollum's death. All those who were tempted by the Ring were perished:Boromir, Gollum and ultimately Souron. This is why I guess Frodo's survival becomes "odd" because he doesn't die literally, but in other ways. Morgul-blade wound was beginning of his new fate.

[Lotrelf]

Makes perfect sense, Inziladun. Perfect.
You said "Sam observes" Frodo's transparency; in the book, when Sam sees the LIGHT in Frodo, he says that Frodo's face looked "old and beautiful." beautiful: Understood. What did he mean by 'Old' ? I thought at this point perhaps the Ring wasn't working i.e. Not Affecting him that much, or the LIGHT was protecting him. But, couldn't this be something about his growing wisdom? After all, Gandalf, Elrond etc. look old. What do you think?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Lotrelf

You said "Sam observes" Frodo's transparency; in the book, when Sam sees the LIGHT in Frodo, he says that Frodo's face looked "old and beautiful." beautiful: Understood. What did he mean by 'Old' ? I thought at this point perhaps the Ring wasn't working i.e. Not Affecting him that much, or the LIGHT was protecting him. But, couldn't this be something about his growing wisdom? After all, Gandalf, Elrond etc. look old. What do you think?

I'm sure the mental strain of constantly resisting the Ring contributed to Frodo's appearance. He had probably been gradually aging in that way since setting out on the Quest, as the Ring's power grew along with Sauron's (and it's growing proximity to Mordor as Frodo and Sam traveled). As in real life, gradual changes often go unnoticed until one has an "aha" moment where life allows a momentary stillness, and time for one to really see something.

[Lotrelf]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I'm sure the mental strain of constantly resisting the Ring contributed to Frodo's appearance. He had probably been gradually aging in that way since setting out on the Quest, as the Ring's power grew along with Sauron's (and it's growing proximity to Mordor as Frodo and Sam traveled). As in real life, gradual changes often go unnoticed until one has an "aha" moment where life allows a momentary stillness, and time for one to really see something.

How? After getting the Ring, Bilbo stopped aging; Gollum lived for more than 500 years. This means: They stopped aging. Why would Frodo look old, then.? He had stopped aging as well, as we are told in FOTR. Or we are saying the same thing, his "growing wisdom", but differently?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Lotrelf

How? After getting the Ring, Bilbo stopped aging; Gollum lived for more than 500 years. This means: They stopped aging. Why would Frodo look old, then.? He had stopped aging as well, as we are told in FOTR. Or we are saying the same thing, his "growing wisdom", but differently?

Bilbo and Gollum were not actively resisting the Ring's pull on a constant basis. And Gollum had had his years lengthened by his possession of the Ring, but he hardly looked fresh as a daisy by the time Bilbo met him.