Boromir and his search for Rivendell - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Pervinca Took · 04-01-2014, 02:09 PM

Gandalf told Frodo that the whole of the valley was under Elrond's command. It would make sense for a wide area (and a Ford 30 miles away) to be under his control; Galadriel protects Lothlorien with the aid of Nenya, and Vilya was the mightiest of the Three.

Mithalwen · 04-01-2014, 06:24 PM

Thanks. I can forgive myself for not knowing then!

I must admit I didn't think the Strachey map quite tallied. With the impression you get from the Hobbit even allowing that Gandalf might not be as familiar as Glorfindel and Aragorn with the route.

Mithalwen · 04-01-2014, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Gandalf told Frodo that the whole of the valley was under Elrond's command. It would make sense for a wide area (and a Ford 30 miles away) to be under his control; Galadriel protects Lothlorien with the aid of Nenya, and Vilya was the mightiest of the Three.

When it's not Narya...

William Cloud Hicklin · 04-02-2014, 07:49 AM

The sprint to the Ford happened "in late afternoon" -say 5 o'clock in October. Given Frodo's condition, I wouldn't think thay would have moved him with anything rougher than a horse-litter, or if necessary on a horse's back at a walk.... 5-6 mph. That would make their arrival circa 10-11 pm, which would certainly count as "that night".

Inziladun · 04-02-2014, 11:39 AM

Considering the account of Bilbo of his arrival at Rivendell in The Hobbit, a distance of many miles from the Ford to the Last Homely House seems more than reasonable.

They crossed the Ford in the morning, and didn't arrive at the valley until dusk. And with Gandalf leading the way, too! Then again, maybe he was just toying with the Dwarves and knew the way all along.

I realize the particulars of Eriador geography weren't as clear-cut in Tolkien's mind when he wrote TH, but still...

Pervinca Took · 04-02-2014, 02:05 PM

Mith, do you mean that Narya is referred to in another source as the mightiest of the Three?

Thanks for the clarifications, all - I have often wondered how long the rest of the journey would have taken, and how they would have got there. Presumably the elves rode to meet them with enough horses for the others to ride as well.

Ivriniel · 04-06-2014, 02:06 AM

I've always assumed that Imladris was a known haven of Elvendom in Minas Anor. Gandalf went to Minas Tirith to research The Ring, when Isildur took it. Valandil, Isildur's youngest son was reared in Imladris. It wasn't that secret a secret locale. Just difficult to invade.

Sauron knew where Imladris was located. This was revealed to me, only recently, as I waded through materials about Celeborn and Galadriel (UT). During the War of Elves and Sauron, Sauron had Elrond contained, for a short while, in Imladris. 1695, SA, the House of the Mirdain was sacked. 1700, Gil Galad gets Numenorean help. He was holed up in Lindon, Gulf of Lhun and Numenorean help came just in time. Sauron had Imladris isolated sometime in that intervening five years.

Boromir had that dream, once, that Faramir had many times "seek for the sword that was broken, in Imladris it dwells). It makes sense that Boromir and his dad went through the archives and found materials about Elrond, who helped Isildur in the Last Alliance)....

William Cloud Hicklin · 04-06-2014, 08:02 AM

Except that Denethor plainly didn't know: "All he could tell me was that Imladris was the name of a far northern dell where Elrond and Half-elven dwelt."

Minas Tirith's archives would have been little use regarding Tar-Minastir's expeditionary force and the First War of the Rings (4500 years before), since all of Numenor's records were lost in the Downfall.

04-01-2014, 02:09 PM	#1
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	Gandalf told Frodo that the whole of the valley was under Elrond's command. It would make sense for a wide area (and a Ford 30 miles away) to be under his control; Galadriel protects Lothlorien with the aid of Nenya, and Vilya was the mightiest of the Three. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." Last edited by Pervinca Took; 04-01-2014 at 02:42 PM.

04-01-2014, 06:24 PM	#2
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	Thanks. I can forgive myself for not knowing then! I must admit I didn't think the Strachey map quite tallied. With the impression you get from the Hobbit even allowing that Gandalf might not be as familiar as Glorfindel and Aragorn with the route. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace Last edited by Mithalwen; 04-02-2014 at 08:04 AM. Reason: missing phrase and typos

04-02-2014, 07:49 AM	#4
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	The sprint to the Ford happened "in late afternoon" -say 5 o'clock in October. Given Frodo's condition, I wouldn't think thay would have moved him with anything rougher than a horse-litter, or if necessary on a horse's back at a walk.... 5-6 mph. That would make their arrival circa 10-11 pm, which would certainly count as "that night". __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

04-02-2014, 11:39 AM	#5
Inziladun Gruesome Spectre Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Heaven's doorstep Posts: 8,039	Considering the account of Bilbo of his arrival at Rivendell in The Hobbit, a distance of many miles from the Ford to the Last Homely House seems more than reasonable. They crossed the Ford in the morning, and didn't arrive at the valley until dusk. And with Gandalf leading the way, too! Then again, maybe he was just toying with the Dwarves and knew the way all along. I realize the particulars of Eriador geography weren't as clear-cut in Tolkien's mind when he wrote TH, but still... __________________ Music alone proves the existence of God.

04-02-2014, 02:05 PM	#6
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	Mith, do you mean that Narya is referred to in another source as the mightiest of the Three? Thanks for the clarifications, all - I have often wondered how long the rest of the journey would have taken, and how they would have got there. Presumably the elves rode to meet them with enough horses for the others to ride as well. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always."

04-06-2014, 02:06 AM	#7
Ivriniel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 430	I've always assumed that Imladris was a known haven of Elvendom in Minas Anor. Gandalf went to Minas Tirith to research The Ring, when Isildur took it. Valandil, Isildur's youngest son was reared in Imladris. It wasn't that secret a secret locale. Just difficult to invade. Sauron knew where Imladris was located. This was revealed to me, only recently, as I waded through materials about Celeborn and Galadriel (UT). During the War of Elves and Sauron, Sauron had Elrond contained, for a short while, in Imladris. 1695, SA, the House of the Mirdain was sacked. 1700, Gil Galad gets Numenorean help. He was holed up in Lindon, Gulf of Lhun and Numenorean help came just in time. Sauron had Imladris isolated sometime in that intervening five years. Boromir had that dream, once, that Faramir had many times "seek for the sword that was broken, in Imladris it dwells). It makes sense that Boromir and his dad went through the archives and found materials about Elrond, who helped Isildur in the Last Alliance)....

04-06-2014, 08:02 AM	#8
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	Except that Denethor plainly didn't know: "All he could tell me was that Imladris was the name of a far northern dell where Elrond and Half-elven dwelt." Minas Tirith's archives would have been little use regarding Tar-Minastir's expeditionary force and the First War of the Rings (4500 years before), since all of Numenor's records were lost in the Downfall. __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.