Boromir and his search for Rivendell

[cellurdur]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Except that Denethor plainly didn't know: "All he could tell me was that Imladris was the name of a far northern dell where Elrond and Half-elven dwelt."

Minas Tirith's archives would have been little use regarding Tar-Minastir's expeditionary force and the First War of the Rings (4500 years before), since all of Numenor's records were lost in the Downfall.

Information survived they just could not bring themselves to look at it.

Ignoring that there is the information Isildur may have left behind. His wife and son were still staying in Rivendell. Denethor had access to the library, but it does not mean he had read everything in it.

[Puddleglum]

Originally Posted by cellurdur

Information survived they just could not bring themselves to look at it.

Ignoring that there is the information Isildur may have left behind. His wife and son were still staying in Rivendell. Denethor had access to the library, but it does not mean he had read everything in it.

Sure. The library would have 3200 years of records! Think the U.S. National Archives multiplied by 15!
Denethor claimed (to Gandalf) to know more of the city's lore than anyone else - but that doesn't mean he was an expert on everything that was there. Could ANYONE really know everything there?

Gandalf suspected the scroll of Isuldur (about the ring) had not been ead by any but him and Saruman since the Kings failed - 1200 years before. How likely is it that anyone would have felt the need to search out the location of Rivendell over the previous Mellenium?

Besides, how would you describe it's location? "Go to the Ford of Bruinen and it's within 30 miles - IF you can find the path"??? It's not so easy - especially in a land with many canyons and ravines. Assume you can't just follow the Bruinen upstream - the canyon is likely impassible that way. Certainly, no one would have had the Lat/Long coordinates - and how would a traveler use such in that time even if he had it? GPS? Forget it.

Besides, even 5/600 yars earlier, in the dire straights of the Balchoth crisis, Cirion apparently never considered seeking help from the Elves (his Riders bypassed Lorien without even a wave and there is no indication he thought to ask Rivendell for help) suggesting they weren't even on the radar screen. That just suggests that, for multi-hundreds of years (at least0 n oone would have been searching the archives for the location of Rivendell.

Denethor was enough of a lore-master to know it existed, but it seems likely even he really didn't know it's precise location (just a "far northern dell") - making Boromir's travel more of a quest, than a simple journey --- and all the more impressive for that.

[Ivriniel]

Originally Posted by Puddleglum

Sure. The library would have 3200 years of records! Think the U.S. National Archives multiplied by 15!
Denethor claimed (to Gandalf) to know more of the city's lore than anyone else - but that doesn't mean he was an expert on everything that was there. Could ANYONE really know everything there?

Gandalf suspected the scroll of Isuldur (about the ring) had not been ead by any but him and Saruman since the Kings failed - 1200 years before. How likely is it that anyone would have felt the need to search out the location of Rivendell over the previous Mellenium?

Besides, how would you describe it's location? "Go to the Ford of Bruinen and it's within 30 miles - IF you can find the path"??? It's not so easy - especially in a land with many canyons and ravines. Assume you can't just follow the Bruinen upstream - the canyon is likely impassible that way. Certainly, no one would have had the Lat/Long coordinates - and how would a traveler use such in that time even if he had it? GPS? Forget it.

Besides, even 5/600 yars earlier, in the dire straights of the Balchoth crisis, Cirion apparently never considered seeking help from the Elves (his Riders bypassed Lorien without even a wave and there is no indication he thought to ask Rivendell for help) suggesting they weren't even on the radar screen. That just suggests that, for multi-hundreds of years (at least0 n oone would have been searching the archives for the location of Rivendell.

Denethor was enough of a lore-master to know it existed, but it seems likely even he really didn't know it's precise location (just a "far northern dell") - making Boromir's travel more of a quest, than a simple journey --- and all the more impressive for that.

Rivendell had scouts, to be sure, everyone. A guy like Boromir, so obviously, 'minas-tirith-ish' up north would have attracted attention enough, don't you think?

That, and add to the materials that The Last Alliance was not exactly the war that everyone forgot, which I add to my post upstream about Valandil reared in Imladris. Then, Second Age materials aside (5000 years is a long time, tho we have records that old from Egypt), Elendil's founding efforts, his ties to Fornost, Evendim, Amon Sul, and the three principalities of Arnor, the many-hundreds-of-year war with The Witch King, and Elrond's assistance in that war (entre Glorfindel's prophetic words) then Arvedui's ties to Gondor during a time, well into TA, where traffic flowed up the Greenway on a road maintained by the King -- this cluster of items would leave me inclined to think that Boromir had some kind of background knowledge about Rivendell's location. Where the Greenway meets the Great East Road, I'd have imagined was a point well known to Gondor....