Why did Frodo feel he had to leave Middle Earth at the of ROTK?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

But is to sail West to sail out of Time, or have I misinterpreted the meaning of passing out of Time? (Since I seem to remember a Letter mentioning that the healing of Aman was still "within Time"?) What I mean is: would there even be an October the 6th or a 13th of March in Tol Eressea or Valinor? Would he be protected from these bouts of illness by being outside Time? I know that elvish settlements even in Middle-earth have a timeless aura to them, but they still used calendars, I believe? What is the case beyond the Sea? Are there still seasons and years? * And if not, would this alone prevent the return of illnesses triggered by a date?

A very interesting question. My take on it is that since Frodo in Eressëa would not be "outside" time to the point that he would become immortal like the Elves, ie his body still would be subject to physical death, he would also potentially have still been afflicted by his past wounds. Tolkien seems, in the quote, to have left the question with ambiguity. Maybe the Undying Lands would have provided Frodo spiritual healing without question, but the physical effects were more permanent.

[Pervinca Took]

Tom, it doesn't matter! I don't know the answer either!

The significance of the date-triggers versus timelessness in Valinor only occurred to me today, but my personal feeling is that yes, the wounds would have troubled him, but there would have been help and healing there, and, perhaps most importantly, hope.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

No, Aman incl. Valinor and Eressea remain within Time. All of Arda is within Time, and none "pass beyond thought and time" or enter "the Timeless Halls" save in death. The first reckoning of Time was made in Valinor based on the cycles of the Trees.

Based on Tolkien's essay 'Aman" in Morgoth's Ring, I would venture that Frodo and Bilbo (and Sam and Gimli) perforce dwelt in Eressea. This is not to say that they couldn't visit Valinor, but it would appear that a mortal couldn't endure the fully Undying Land for an extended period. Eressea was a sort of 'halfway house,' partaking somewhat of Middle-earth, and this is presumably why most of the returned Exiles and Sindar chose to live there.

In any event, Bilbo and Frodo (and Sam) would eventually die and pass out of Time "to the fate of Men beyond the world".

[Pervinca Took]

Thanks for the clarification. Does it actually say that mortals could visit Valinor, and stay there for a short time? I have a gut feeling that a sojourn in Valinor itself, however brief that might be, would be necessary for full healing. Perhaps the Ringbearers might choose to go there when ready to die. (All conjecture, of course).

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Thanks for the clarification. Does it actually say that mortals could visit Valinor, and stay there for a short time? I have a gut feeling that a sojourn in Valinor itself, however brief that might be, would be necessary for full healing. Perhaps the Ringbearers might choose to go there when ready to die. (All conjecture, of course).

Since Gandalf was a Maia of Irmo, my guess would be that they might go to Lorien for a little while which was probably the place to deal with bad dreams and memories, but that Eressea might be the most congenial location for most of their soujourn where there would be mainly folk who knew Middle Earth and was perhaps not as high falutin' as Valinor.

I don't think the effects of Frodo's injuries can be underestimated. Sometimes it is having to keep on going that keeps you going. My mother faced her terminal cancer with great courage and the only time she broke down was when she was briefly in remission and not having treatment. She coped so well with facing death it waa awful to see her struggling with life almost, yet when her symptoms returned she coped with surgeries, more chemo, infections stoically. To return to Middle Earth, the only example I can think of of a similar wound (other than Aredhel's fatal one) is Celebrían. Even she, with her great ancestry and knowing that leaving might well mean, definitively parting from her children, can not bear to remain.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I don't think the effects of Frodo's injuries can be underestimated. Sometimes it is having to keep on going that keeps you going. My mother faced her terminal cancer with great courage and the only time she broke down was when she was briefly in remission and not having treatment. She coped so well with facing death it waa awful to see her struggling with life almost, yet when her symptoms returned she coped with surgeries, more chemo, infections stoically. To return to Middle Earth, the only example I can think of of a similar wound (other than Aredhel's fatal one) is Celebrían. Even she, with her great ancestry and knowing that leaving might well mean, definitively parting from her children, can not bear to remain.

Very insightful, Mith. Of course Melian, too, after the death of Thingol, had had enough of Middle-earth and somehow made her way back to Aman, specifically to Lórien. She also left her kin and people behind.

I find it interesting to look at Frodo and Gandalf as opposites in the effect that the trials and wounds, physical and spiritual, of both, ran different courses after the destruction of the Ring and the fall of Sauron.

Gandalf had been bearing a great burden ever since his arrival in Middle-earth: how to bring about Sauron's permanent defeat. The chapter on the Istari in Unfinished Tales describes his ordeal by saying Gandalf "suffered greatly, and was slain". When the War of the Ring was over, Frodo made the remark:

'Pippin, didn't you say that Gandalf was less close than of old? He was weary of his labours then, I think. Now he is recovering.'

ROTK

Frodo is also relieved of his crushing weight when the Ring is gone; yet his spiritual and physical discomfort grows until he feels he must leave Middle-earth to escape it. I think a lot of that really is due to his sense of ultimate failure regarding the Ring: that he had not himself thrown it into the Fire, and still in some level of his mind, wanted it back. In many cases, health follows will: a good outlook and positive emotions can hold physical pain at bay, or at least lessen it. Frodo did not have the benefit of that himself.

[Pervinca Took]

In many cases, health follows will: a good outlook and positive emotions can hold physical pain at bay, or at least lessen it. Frodo did not have the benefit of that himself.

Perhaps he had it, at least to some degree, once he had actually made the decision to sail. That was a positive decision to do something about his suffering, to take the best path open to him. Tolkien said that it was after his last grievous illness - in March, I think? - that his mind was made up. Also, he left before the October illness could recur. That is even spoken in an earlier draft: "I'm going now, before the wound returns."

Tolkien does speak of some positivity - "if Sam thought he was lucky, Frodo knew that he was more lucky himself ... he took to a quiet life, writing a good [or was it great?] deal, and going through his notes." I think he used the near-completion of the Red Book as a focus. Sam did remark "Well, you've kept at it, I must say."

There was also, reputedly, much coming and going between Crickhollow and Bag End. I always took that to mean that Frodo visited Crickhollow as well as Merry and Pippin coming to Bag End, but I might be wrong.