Frodo's change from book to film

[alatar]

I wouldn't blame Elijah Wood for the failures of Frodo or the movies - that would be like blaming Hayden Christensen for the dreck that are the Star Wars prequels. Wood could only do what he was asked and what was in the script.

In other posts I renamed the movie Frodo as "Frodo Baggage," as the character always seems to be being carried by others. In the books he seems to be much more self-reliant.

What scenes from the movies or from the books do you feel show Frodo in a better light?

- Of course I like when he takes a swipe at the Witch-King on Weathertop.

- "Go back to the land of Mordor and follow me no more!" at the Fords of Bruinen.

- The scene where Frodo is shown to be both soft and stern (in Sam's eyes) when dealing with Gollum and the Ring.

- His shrewd interactions with Faramir.

In the movie I do like when he and Sam are awaiting death on Mount Doom, before the Eagles appear. The look on his face when the entire Minas Tirith crowd turns to him (and his three companions) is excellent.

[skip spence]

Browsed FotR the other week and some of the major differences between Book-Frodo (BF) and Movie-Frodo (MF) I noticed were:

Age-difference: It's obvious that MF is much younger than BF and not only in appearance. While BF is a mature, intelligent and self-assured Hobbit who is able to handle himself well in just about any social situation (and he does pretty well in a crisis too), MF is more of a whelp and out of his depth most of the time.

Character: What I find curious though, in the light of what I just wrote, is that MF (as I remember him) seems more serious than BF. At least in the beginning of the book we get to know BF as a pretty funny guy. He exchanges jokes with M&P and has a tendency to have a few drinks too many. BF was just an angsty guy, wasn't he?

Class distinction: BF and his chums Merry and Pippin are very bourgeois. Although BF treats Sam with the greatest of respect, he is still, at least initially, his gardener and servant rather than his friend.

[FerniesApple]

Originally Posted by alatar

I wouldn't blame Elijah Wood for the failures of Frodo or the movies - that would be like blaming Hayden Christensen for the dreck that are the Star Wars prequels. Wood could only do what he was asked and what was in the script.

In other posts I renamed the movie Frodo as "Frodo Baggage," as the character always seems to be being carried by others. In the books he seems to be much more self-reliant.

What scenes from the movies or from the books do you feel show Frodo in a better light?

- Of course I like when he takes a swipe at the Witch-King on Weathertop.

- "Go back to the land of Mordor and follow me no more!" at the Fords of Bruinen.

- The scene where Frodo is shown to be both soft and stern (in Sam's eyes) when dealing with Gollum and the Ring.

- His shrewd interactions with Faramir.

In the movie I do like when he and Sam are awaiting death on Mount Doom, before the Eagles appear. The look on his face when the entire Minas Tirith crowd turns to him (and his three companions) is excellent.

Hayden Christensen is a Wooden actor, Wood can act and emote.
As for the 'Go back to the land of Mordor' its a bit silly, I didnt like it when I read it for the first time in the book. Its probably the only line in the Whole of the books that doesnt sit well for me. Soft and stern, yep he is like that in the film too. The only real difference between MF and BF are one or two ineffectual swipes at Ringwraiths, the lack of which does not mean that MF is suddenly a wimp. We didnt get the Barrow scenes so we dont know how that would have panned out.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by FerniesApple

Hayden Christensen is a Wooden actor, Wood can act and emote.

That might be true, but one thing LotR had over the Prequels was not using green screen and tennis balls for every shoot (which might be why The Hobbit suffers so).

As for the 'Go back to the land of Mordor' its a bit silly, I didnt like it when I read it for the first time in the book. Its probably the only line in the Whole of the books that doesnt sit well for me.

To each his own. I'm just saying that BF is defying the enemy, not whining or simpering.

Soft and stern, yep he is like that in the film too. The only real difference between MF and BF are one or two ineffectual swipes at Ringwraiths, the lack of which does not mean that MF is suddenly a wimp.

Not really. Some top-of-mind examples (more in the SbS):

• Frodo did not look effectual when being manhandled by Strider in Bree.
• 'Give the Ring back to the baby' is what I see on Caradhras.
• His upper lip is not very stiff when suffering from the Nazgul wound.
• The Watcher wrings some more 'whine' out of MF.
• Begging Faramir to let him go, to the point of it looking like a tantrum.
• Almost giving the Ring to the Winged Nazgul in Osgiliath.
• Cirith Ungol and the lembas.
• The big swoon when 'hit' by the Eye light on Mordor.

I'm sure there are some scenes where MF shows some spine. Any examples?

[Nerwen]

I'm sure there are some scenes where MF shows some spine. Any examples?

There's the Council of Elrond scene, where everyone starts squabbling and he tells them to shut up.

- Incidentally, that scene is a pretty efficient bit of adaptation, considering how dialogue- and exposition-heavy the original is at that point. I mean, I don't know what's happened to the writers- these days they would have practically given it its own movie.

[Nerwen]

However–

Originally Posted by FerniesApple

I am trying to understand why the people on this forum seem to dislike Woods performance and am putting forward hypothetical reasons why. The 'characters actions or dialogue' and his acting are one and the same thing.

I don’t know what to say to this, except that– well, no they’re not. I mean unless you know for a fact that Wood himself wrote and directed every scene he was in? (For the record, I do actually think his performance was *part* of the problem.)

I am saying perhaps Wood has been misjudged by not 'looking' like people imagined Frodo from the books, and perhaps he has 'acted' in a manner unlike imagined from the books, but that is down to personal taste more than any serious flaws or deviations from the original. The message is the same even if the messenger is speaking in an unfamiliar accent. I dont think they did Frodo a disservice by making him gentler, I think it made him more interesting, but thats my personal opinion.

This… is another sticking point. Maybe we all need to define what we mean by words like “weak” or “gentle”, and also make it clearer what we're talking about. For you, I gather, the focus is on the presence or absence of "one or two ineffectual swipes at Ringwraiths” the lack of which makes Movie Frodo “gentler” in your eyes, and (you assume) “weak” in other peoples’. Also, you keep saying we’re just prejudiced against Wood’s personal appearance.

And yet, here is the actual list of complaints:

• The “Go home, Sam” scene
• General lack of initiative
• Powerlessness against the Ring
• Deviousness
• Lack of humour
• Whining
• Swooning
• And yes, finally, failure to defy the Ringwraiths at Weathetop and the Ford.

Now, obviously you don’t agree with any of this, and that’s fine. However, if you are indeed “trying to understand” other people’s reactions, I think you need to take more note of what they actually are.

[Morthoron]

There were any number of character assassinations in the movies, why should Frodo be any different? However, if you look at bitter "Arwen is dying" Elrond, maniacal and ignoble Denethor, and particularly "Show my quality" Faramir, I think they got an even rawer deal from the spurious script. The characters are Bizzaro World versions of Middle-earth characters.

[FerniesApple]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

However–

I don’t know what to say to this, except that– well, no they’re not. I mean unless you know for a fact that Wood himself wrote and directed every scene he was in? (For the record, I do actually think his performance was *part* of the problem.)


This… is another sticking point. Maybe we all need to define what we mean by words like “weak” or “gentle”, and also make it clearer what we're talking about. For you, I gather, the focus is on the presence or absence of "one or two ineffectual swipes at Ringwraiths” the lack of which makes Movie Frodo “gentler” in your eyes, and (you assume) “weak” in other peoples’. Also, you keep saying we’re just prejudiced against Wood’s personal appearance.

And yet, here is the actual list of complaints:

• The “Go home, Sam” scene
• General lack of initiative
• Powerlessness against the Ring
• Deviousness
• Lack of humour
• Whining
• Swooning
• And yes, finally, failure to defy the Ringwraiths at Weathetop and the Ford.

Now, obviously you don’t agree with any of this, and that’s fine. However, if you are indeed “trying to understand” other people’s reactions, I think you need to take more note of what they actually are.

the ''go home Sam'' scene makes him look more aggressive than he was in the book, so thats a bad example if you are saying it makes him look weak.
''general lack of initiative'' wrong again. After escaping Boromir Frodo decides to take the boat and go to Mordor alone without Sam, he also saves Sam from drowning. This shows great courage and initiative. you really need better examples of frodos weakness because I dont get it.
''powerlessness against the Ring'' thats a given, in the book or the films, its part of being a Ring bearer.
''whining'' this is more prejudice based on dislike of Woods performance rather than reality. Frodo doesnt whine, he suffers.
''swooning'' more prejudice, any so called 'feminine' behaviour like swooning is immediately ridiculed, like swooning from lack of food or exhaustion is somehow ridiculous.
this list of complaints are a bit flimsy.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by FerniesApple

Frodo doesnt whine, he suffers.

Not as much as I while watching Wood's portrayal.

To me, 'book' Frodo does come across as patiently enduring mental and physical anguish. Film version always seemed to me to have a harassed and fretful air about him, as if to let the viewer know he was just carrying the Ring because he'd been bullied into it. And I just don't see book-Frodo's sense of humor displayed. Wood can't seem to forget about the Ring's terrible burden for an instant, even if Frodo in the book does on occasion.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by FerniesApple

the ''go home Sam'' scene makes him look more aggressive than he was in the book, so thats a bad example if you are saying it makes him look weak.

My issue with that scene is that it makes no sense, but that's for another thread.

''general lack of initiative'' wrong again. After escaping Boromir Frodo decides to take the boat and go to Mordor alone without Sam, he also saves Sam from drowning. This shows great courage and initiative. you really need better examples of frodos weakness because I dont get it.

Okay. You show one example where I think we'd all agree that Frodo took action. What of the other scenes (plural) where he doesn't? You may not agree, but I see more scenes where Frodo's more 'along for the ride' than taking the reins in his own hands.

He did jump on the ferry boat on the way to Bree - forgot that one.

''powerlessness against the Ring'' thats a given, in the book or the films, its part of being a Ring bearer.

Agreed.

''whining'' this is more prejudice based on dislike of Woods performance rather than reality. Frodo doesnt whine, he suffers.

Maybe you see it that way. I don't. To me, 'whining' is when the person could take some action (other than vocalizing) that could change his/her state, but doesn't. This action typically would not take much effort. But there is zero effort and much vocalization, and so...whining.

Note that I did not mention a specific actor. Don't care if it's Wood, McKellen or Otto - whining's whining.

''swooning'' more prejudice, any so called 'feminine' behaviour like swooning is immediately ridiculed, like swooning from lack of food or exhaustion is somehow ridiculous.

In the scene I described Frodo swoons/faints/crumbles/folds/wilts/gets a case of the vapours/etc when the light of Sauron's Eye (ugh!) hits him. So, regardless of his physical state, it's the light that pushes him over some threshold.

It just looks seriously silly, as it's slightly slowed down as if it's something interesting and not sad.

this list of complaints are a bit flimsy.

Note that the thinnest lembas has two sides.