The Book of Lost Tales Part I: A Readthrough

[jallanite]

Originally Posted by Orphalesion

And apparently Middle Earth has vampires.

From “Of Beren and Lúthien” in the published Silmarillion (italics mine):

Then Sauron yielded himself, and Lúthien took the mastery of the isle and all that was there; and Huan released him. And immediately he took the form of a vampire, great as a dark cloud across the moon, and he fled, dripping blood from his throat upon the trees, and came to Taur-nu-Fuin, and dwelt there, filling it with horror.

Also …

He [Huan] turned therefore at Sauron’s isle, as they ran northward again, and he took thence the ghastly wolf-hame of Draugluin, and the bat-fell of Thuringwethil. She was the messenger of Sauron, and was wont to fly in vampire’s form to Angband; and her great fingered wings were barbed at each joint’s end with an iron claw.

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by jallanite

in vampire’s form

Indeed, which of course shows that Day isn't always purely inventing. I think a good way of describing it might be that he regularly extrapolates without stating it. All "in vampire's form" tells us really is that the idea of vampires existed in Middle-earth, more than there are any real vampires. I think it's tempting for people to imagine Thuringwethil as, say, part of a cadre of Maia-vampires serving Morgoth but really that seems to be more the kind of thing that is used to extrapolate monsters for a role-playing game (Games Workshop seemingly thought so) than something that can be argued as definitely existing in the narrative.

One of the more egregious to my mind is Day's assertion that the Watcher in the Water was a "Kraken," giving "Kraken" its own entry in one of the books and claiming something along the lines of "Krakens were bred by Morgoth in the First Age."

I think one of the best ways to describing it would be if you took speculation from a forum like the downs ("Was the Watcher a sea monster bred by Morgoth?") stating it as categorical fact and then putting it in a book to be sold to people who didn't know any better. That's what it feels like - published speculation.

[Orphalesion]

I know about Luthien, but I always had the impression that those vampires were meant to be large, monstrous vampire bats not what we understand as vampires today, as in blood craving, humanoid reanimated corpses that propagate through infecting others.

But looking at the Silmarillion again, Thuringwethil's appearance is pretty vague, just that she "was wont to fly in Vampire's form to Angband; and her great fingered wings were barbed at each joint's end with an iron claw." That could mean a lot, it could mean a humanoid with bat-wings, a monstrous humanoid with bat wings, or a large bat, with the added possibility that she changed shape while at Tol Sirion and Angband.
Likewise when Sauron's vampire shape there was"blood dripping from his throat upon the trees" but to me it seems that might have been a wound from his battle with Huan.

Of course, since Sauron was involved it is possible that Necromancy played a role in the creation of these Werewolves and Vampires. But that is speculation again...

BTW I'm sorry if we take over the thread. Tell us to shut up whenever needed.