Isengard- Help Wanted!

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

That certainly gives the impression that Saruman had never seen Théoden in person.

I agree, I've always thought that Saruman had never met Théoden before.

I think the most likely situation is that which Legate mentioned - there were probably occasionally messages between Isengard and Edoras on this matter or that. I imagine them typically being initiated by Saruman when there was some situation in which it would be advantageous for him if Rohan was to do one thing or another. He would of course always phrase these messages as if it was in Rohan's best interest as well.

If Saruman had "long ago" offered Théoden a state beyond his "merit" and "wit" is it possible that perhaps at some point early in Théoden's reign, when Saruman was making more tentative steps towards becoming a Power, he sent such a message to Théoden? Saruman began to fortify Isengard in 2953 but didn't start communicating with Sauron until 3000, while Théoden became King of the Mark in 2980. It seems to fit rather neatly, although Appendix A states that Saruman's "designs towards Rohan, though he hid them, were evil" even that early. Perhaps to an extent he hid them from himself as well.

Note that Thengel had been an ally of "Thorongil" and therefore would probably, like Ecthelion II, have been encouraged to trust in Gandalf rather than Saruman. Thorongil-Aragorn stopped adventuring in 2980 and presumably returned to the North, so he would not have been available to give the same counsel to Théoden, but it's possible that Thengel passed the advice on to his son at some point before his death.

It's possible that Saruman sent a message to Théoden proposing a more serious military alliance which Théoden refused, which caused Saruman to eventually resort to using Wormtongue to corrupt the will of the King. The Tolkien Gateway gives 3014 as the date when Théoden's health began to fail but I can't find that in the Appendices, can anyone confirm or deny that?