Where do elves get metal?

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

Firstly I want to say sorry (especially to skip spence) if I'm banging on about this too much and/or making too much of one remark.
...
I apologies if I'm going on too much about this, and I don't mean to harp on about one thing you said skip spence. I'm just not sure how much evidence there is for this "avoiding getting their fingernails dirty" characterisation of Elves.

No worries mate i dont feel in any way offended nor attacked. Im mostly talking out of my arse anyway. I do think that the Elves generally give off this "holier than thou" impression even though they don't nessesary shy away from hard work. You know: 'we don't normally hang with dull hobbits but we'll make an exception for tonight and you should be very grateful' that kind of attitude.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

1) The Noldor in Valinor definitely mined for gems

2) To the extent the BOLT is canon, one of the Twelve Houses (Meglin's) was that of the Mole, a house of miners. They were distinct from Rog's Hammer, the smiths.

3) The Noldor most assuredly quarried, not all that far from mining. "Deep they delved us" goes Legolas' song in Hollin.

[Zigûr]

I'm currently in the process of making final emendations to my successful PhD thesis on Professor Tolkien and utopianism (ie I should be graduating in September but a few small changes have been requested prior to final submission), and this has involved touching upon Dr. Rateliff's The History of the Hobbit. I was particularly interested in reading the passages of the short-lived 1960 "rewrite", which includes among other things a new episode featuring a broken bridge, the Last Bridge of The Lord of the Rings. Dr. Rateliff muses that in this version of events "clearly Elrond must have restored it sometime in the intervening years" but later makes the following remark:

While Elrond's maintenance of the road makes sense and is in keeping with his role as the preserver of the last vestiges of the North Kingdom, it is hard to picture the elves of Rivendell working at road-mending, since throughout the legendarium the elves are never associated with road-making.

While it is true that we hear very little of Elf-roads in the texts, although there was a path through Mirkwood used by Thranduil's people, it does not seem unreasonable to me to imagine Elves being capable of restoring and maintaining bridges and roads where necessary given their talent in so many other crafts.

With no disrespect intended to Dr. Rateliff, I wonder if this speculation also arises from this curiously common assumption that Elves were averse to manual labour.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

With no disrespect intended to Dr. Rateliff, I wonder if this speculation also arises from this curiously common assumption that Elves were averse to manual labour.

Quite possibly. It seems fairly common for people, at least those with a relatively superficial acquaintance with the books, to pigeonhole the different races into rigid characterizations.

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

at least those with a relatively superficial acquaintance with the books

This is why I find Dr. Rateliff's suggestion odd, because he is an expert and surely would be altogether familiar with the variety of Elvish occupations.

I also couldn't help but think that that if there isn't any other evidence for Elves being road-builders and bridge-builders, surely this statement is that evidence. There's also mention of an "ancient road" passing through the defile of Sirion towards Nargothrond, although it's unclear by whom it was built. Similarly, it's unclear to me if Thranduil's road through northern Mirkwood was paved or if it was more of an informal path through the trees. There was also the road that ran from Ost-in-Edhil to Khazad-dûm, and it's implied that this was an Elf-Dwarf collaboration.

[Alcuin]

There are certainly bridges built by the Noldor. The stone bridge over the Narog built at the behest of Turin in Nargothrond is one. But the construction techniques of the Noldor were unrivalled by any but the best of the Dwarves: Gondolin with its repurposed tunnel through the Encircling Mountains, an echo of the Gate of the Noldor that Turgon left behind; Finrod’s fortress at Tol Sirion; Tirion upon Túna in Eldamar; Fëanor’s fortress in the north of Valinor, where he kept the Silmarilli and his father Finwë was murdered by Morgoth; not to mention the various other fortresses of the Noldor in Beleriand (of Maedhros at Himring, of Caranthir in Ered Luin, and so on). All were described as beautiful, strong, and enduring even under attack.

While the Dwarves of Khazad-dûm no doubt assisted in some of the works of Eregion, I think we should imagine that most of the construction in that land was the handiwork of the Noldor. As Legolas reported when the Company of the Ring entered Hollin,

[T]he Elves of this land were of a race strange to us of the silvan folk, and the trees and the grass do not now remember them; only I hear the stones lament them: deep they delved us, fair they wrought us, high they builded us; but they are gone. They are gone. They sought the Havens long ago.

The stones of Hollin at least recalled the deep delving of the Noldor. Most of the survivors of Eregion lived with Elrond in Rivendell until the end of the Third Age: it was they who reforged Narsil into Andúril.

Zigûr, I did not know you were writing a dissertation on Tolkien. Congratulations! Where? might you tell us when its defense is scheduled? and may we read it when it is published?

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Alcuin

There are certainly bridges built by the Noldor. The stone bridge over the Narog built at the behest of Turin in Nargothrond is one.

Of course; more good examples.

Originally Posted by Alcuin

The stones of Hollin at least recalled the deep delving of the Noldor.

Indeed. The examples are rarer for the Elves, but they do exist.

Originally Posted by Alcuin

Zigûr, I did not know you were writing a dissertation on Tolkien. Congratulations! Where? might you tell us when its defense is scheduled? and may we read it when it is published?

Thank you. Once it is finalised and I have graduated I will certainly mention it on the Downs for any interested parties to read.

I am at the University of Sydney. In the Australian system, the thesis is not examined through a thesis defence or viva; instead a process of examination occurs in which three examiners (typically one internal, two external) read the thesis independently and give individual results. The University then gives a final result based on these. I have already passed this process with only emendations required. I am currently completing those prior to final submission and graduation.

Supposedly this is a result of the geographical isolation of Australia, as it would be difficult to get international scholars to agree to attend oral defences, except perhaps from New Zealand. Technological developments might change that in the future. Nonetheless my two external examiners were both international, one being in New Zealand and the other being in the United Kingdom, as I understand it.

Apologies for this bit of off-topic content. As I say, when the final document is available I will mention it here on the Downs.