How the mighty do fall!

[Ivriniel]

Might be a bit late unfortunately. You can see in the top left of the post the date of posting, and that was 2004. You can also check when a person last posted on their profile. Somehow I fear that if someone last posted twelve years ago a welcome now is unlikely to bring them back. That was a happier time, before the Hobbit films were made.

hahahahah That's no reason to ignore her! I'm sure she'll be appreciate, perhaps in another 12 years if she returns (she's in Lorien, you know - time stop).

Originally Posted by Zigûr

It's probably also worth remembering that it was fear of ending up in a lowly state which motivated Sauron to refuse to return to Valinor for judgement, knowing that he would have been the lowest of the low in reflection of his primacy among Morgoth's underlings. His pride had never suffered, and he couldn't seemingly bear the thought of it suffering then.

I recall in the Silmarillion, when he was described as abased and defeated and begging for mercy, and yet 'he lied even unto himself' were the words at the War of Wrath after the sinking of Beleriand. Always stayed with me. Sauron as a being of pride and vanity and conceit would be angrily humiliated in defeat after little time, for that is implied by the quote. By contrast, his last moments in the Barad Dur where he discerned his peril. I suppose that is a form of fear, somehow and what he actually saw in himself in those last moments, we will never know. I imagine though, that facing that ultimate knowing of death or ending, would have pieced his God-headed vanity.

Lobelia, I believe grew in wisdom and humility of its traverse across her heart, for she lost her husband as well. Defiant candour and confinement for a chapter, and she is welcomed in our hearts as a hero of certain, but simple, plain valour.

The rebel Ainu and Maia did not seem capable or equipped to grow this way, that is, by knowing humility and candour in absence of conceit, as we saw with Lobelia. I see the same basic aspects in all their nature. Changelessness and vanity by measure each to some character. Slow to mercy or remembrance of suffering in remote corners, but purposeful in retreat, or acceptance of the marring of Arda, yet permitted to stay the impacts of marring in an annexed area, and manifest an echo of the Music of Creation, as it was discerned, or intended, to the best of their manner, sight, kind and nature.

However - strive against the evil they did. Create its echo in their footprints they did. For their labours and simple determination, they did as much as they could for this cause against evil.

However, a reshaping of Arda does not solve the question and problem of the nature of Free Will in living character. Ainu again, to return for the reshaping still have Free Will as do beings of mind, form and nature.

This has come up before. It was not the Valar's role to find a full solution to the question, simply to maintain Arda's habitability for the Children of Eru. Eru had already solved the problem of Evil in the Music through the concept of "Arda Healed". This is all explained in parts 4 and 5 of Morgoth's Ring, which really are essential reading and answer a lot of common questions when exploring the metaphysics of Professor Tolkien's invention in more detail.