![]() |
![]() |
Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page |
![]() |
#29 | |||
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nurn
Posts: 73
![]() |
Mandos did not make rules: He enforced them. And he did that aggressively.
From Silmarillion, “Of Beren and Lúthien”, after Lúthien sang to Mandos in his halls of the suffering of Elves and Men, moving him to pity “who never before was so moved, nor has been since”: Quote:
Quote:
The Problem of the Half-Elven had not yet been debated by the Valar. It didn’t require resolution until Eärendil arrived on the shores of Eldamar with Elwing and the Silmaril. Besides, Tolkien’s imaginary “history” is, like real history, the records of rulers. There’s no reason not to believe that there were other unions of Elves and Men (like Imrazôr and Mithrellas), just no other unions among the ruling houses: The only unions in the ruling houses were Beren and Lúthien, who both returned to Middle-earth as Mortals, and Tuor and Idril. If Dior is Mortal – not “Man”, because physically he really is Half-Elven, and his wife is Elven and so “immortal” (longevial with Arda), then Elwing his daughter is in the same position as Eärendil: “Half-Mortal”. Half-Mortal may be a better term for this debate than “Half-Elven”. Mandos enters into the debate about Eärendil and Elwing with the knowledge that Dior, Eluréd, and Eluchíl arrived in his halls and then departed Arda; otherwise, he cannot defend his position in the debate. The key passage is this: Quote:
I worked out the math several years ago, and I think I’ve posted it here before. Only if Dior is Mortal is Elwing also Half-Mortal. ![]() My points, though, are these:
Love and self-sacrifice are the missing ingredients so far in this thread. Remember, Tolkien is Christian and Catholic. Love and self-sacrifice are central themes in the Crucifixion. “Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.” Beren sacrificed his life for love of Lúthien; Lúthien sacrificed her life for love of Beren, then begged Mandos for mercy. Perhaps because she’s half-Maia, Mandos relents, but he still has to go to Manwë to accomplish this, because Mandos has no authority to change the Rules. “Manwë sought counsel in his inmost thought, where the will of Ilúvatar was revealed.” We would say that Manwë prayed and meditated. In this way the line of Lúthien descended among Men. That wasn’t Manwë’s will: it was Ilúvatar’s. Eärendil sacrificed himself for love of Elves and Men. Elwing sacrificed herself for love of Eärendil. This time, Manwë doesn’t hesitate: he cuts off debate and says they get to choose. Elrond’s children also get to choose among which people they will be numbered, Elves or Men. Perhaps Elros’ three sons and daughter also had this opportunity; but probably not. I agree with Gothmog, LoB that this is “the real problem with the Peredhil” for readers. I think a reasonable explanation is that it was Eru’s will that, at the end of the Third Age, Arwen sacrificed herself for love of Aragorn to re-ennoble the descendents of the Númenórean kings as the Fourth Age began, and refresh the line of Lúthien. (Arwen was Lúthien's granddaughter's granddaughter. Aragorn was separated from Lúthien by about sixty generations.) Giving Elrond’s children the same choice as their father enabled this. These are not the only times love and self-sacrifice appear as major themes in Tolkien’s mythos. In the Lord of the Rings, Frodo and Sam both sacrifice themselves: Frodo for love of the Shire, Sam for love of Frodo. Gandalf sacrifices himself on the Bridge of Khazad-dûm to protect Aragorn and Boromir, who foolishly charged onto the bridge and would otherwise have been killed. Gil-galad and Elendil sacrificed themselves to save their peoples and destroy Sauron’s physical form. Amandil last Lord of Andúnië sacrificed himself to save to the Faithful Númenóreans before the Downfall of Númenor: Elendil and his sons and followers were spared. This is a reoccurring theme in Tolkien. Last edited by Alcuin; 05-26-2016 at 10:39 PM. |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
|
|
![]() |