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#1 | |
Quentingolmo
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 525
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#2 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
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It is a fearsome struggle to constrain myself to socially acceptable vocabulary to describe my reaction to this news.
There is no reason for somebody who respects Tolkien's work to be optimistic about the end product. Jeff Bezos being a "fan" of the fantasy genre could mean almost anything...in fact, I feel worse about it because you get some crazy ideas being a "fan" of something. That the focus of this project is going to be the vaporous netherworld of "before the Fellowship of the Ring" is just a blanket statement from the beginning that they intend to pull whatever they feel like pulling out of their hindquarters. At least they are kind of honest about it. Perhaps they will at least have enough of a sense of humor to rename Butterbur to Butterfinger. EDIT: I figured out the best way to phrase my dismay, to wit: "I have a bad feeling that this TV series is going to make The Hobbit films look tasteful and well-crafted by comparison."
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...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... Last edited by Kuruharan; 11-13-2017 at 05:04 PM. |
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#3 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
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So, after all, it is just a "glorified fan fiction" show, expanding little bits and pieces of narrative, not really an adaptation?
That destroys what little interest I had. All this will serve to do is perpetuate the cloying atmosphere of misunderstanding and misinformation surrounding Professor Tolkien's work - this one man's lifelong labour of love - in the public consciousness. Of course, it's not being made for people like me. I'm sure it will please a certain kind of audience, however.
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"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir." "On foot?" cried Éomer. |
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#4 |
Wisest of the Noldor
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Ah, so it's not meant to be an adaptation of "The Lord of the Rings" itself, but rather some sort of "Before the Fellowship" exploration of the characters' backstories, as detailed in the elusive Appendix X? And it's going to be the *most expensive series ever made?*
Sounds like fun... ![]()
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. |
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#5 | |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,513
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And considering that GOT book fans forgave the show quite a few deviations given that it captures the essence, the same could be applied to other fandoms as well. The other thing about "the new GOT" is that it threatens to turn into this: a competition between Tolkien's characters and GRRM's works over who is more badass, which is not a comparison that will yield anything productive. Oh my god... this is the hybrid. Foreseen by the prophecy which speaks of a hybrid of two warrior fandoms, which threatens the existence of the universe. The hybrid risks stopping time itself! Watch for some doctor involved in the affair. (Cheers to all the Whovians more patiently awaiting the Christmas special)
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#6 | |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
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At least we didn't have to deal with that.
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...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
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#7 |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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Still convinced this will be a Sil adaptation. The Tolkien Estate don't own the film rights to LotR or The Hobbit, so they can't be involved in the sale of them to Amazon. It's Middle-earth related, so it's not Smith, or Niggle. And if Amazon have paid $200mil for the rights, its something significant. As to my feelings-well, it would be potentially amazing to see Feanor and the rebellion, the great wars, the Fall of Gondolin... but not if they're going for a GoT vibe.
That said, given that I avoid Amazon on principle, and will continue to do so until they sort out their business practices, its all a bit academic for me. |
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#8 |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,039
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I understand that money clouds judgement when people are making the call as to what to add, embellish, or cut from original works when adapting them to bigger, "better" media. If that's your thing, run with it. No drama.
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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#9 |
Blithe Spirit
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,779
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Allow me to present to you a little project called the Silmarillion, that had no purpose beyond the intellectual and emotional pleasure it gave its creator...
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Out went the candle, and we were left darkling |
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#10 | ||
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,515
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In fact, I am sure his opinion coincides with the 18th century poet Matthew Greene, who once famously wrote, "Novels are receipts to make a whore."
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And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. |
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#11 | |
Wight of the Old Forest
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall
Posts: 3,329
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Screenwriters, directors and actors, however, live by their craft and generally don't own the means of production (again, like the rest of us). Small, cheap indy projects may be realized without compromising your artistic vision, but if your vision calls for a large cast and lots of special fx you depend on the goodwill of those who do own the means of production, and for whom the maximization of profit is indeed often the sole concern--and there goes: With usura hath no man a house of good stone each block cut smooth and well fitting that delight might cover their face, with usura hath no man a painted paradise on his church wall harpes et luthes or where virgin receiveth message and halo projects from incision, with usura seeth no man Gonzaga his heirs and his concubines no picture is made to endure nor to live with but it is made to sell and sell quickly For a small budget, minimalist TV version of LotR that trusts the story to do its job without any need for spectacular CGI, artificial character arcs and silly romance subplots, see Hobitit (which I love, it captures the spirit and 'feel' of the story very well IMO, some ham acting and questionable design decisions notwithstanding). But if a big, flashy Tolkien-based series must needs be made, I wish somebody would pick up Helge Fauskanger's ideas for Westernesse (even if Gary Oldman is already a little old to play Ar-Pharazon).
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Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI |
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#12 | |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 85
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Fictitious and Entirely Coincidental television
I really have to wonder about how much of "The Lord of the Rings" and "The Hobbit" (books and films) can remain in certain private hands, for their commercial exploitation only. So many millions of people, over such a long period of time, have read and/or seen this material, that it already seems part of the general world culture. For example: in the bestselling book, The Martian, by Andy Weir -- and in its subsequent film adaptation -- a hero astronaut finds himself marooned on the planet Mars, while a group of NASA employees has a meeting to discuss a controversial plan to rescue him. The book depicts the scene as follows:
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I find it hard to believe that the publishers and producers of The Martian - book and film -- would have had to pay royalties or other forms of "compensation" to the Tolkien Estate or various film studios for making reference to "The Council of Elrond" in their own work. I checked inside the front and back covers of the book for CYA disclaimers and found only the standard generic one: "This is a work of fiction. Names, characters, places, and incidents either are the product of the author's imagination or are used fictitiously. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, events, or locales is entirely coincidental." I wonder how far the producers of the projected television series can stretch this "fictitious" and "entirely coincidental" kind of legalistic denial.
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"If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic." -- Tweedledee |
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#13 | |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 85
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The Elf-chick and Some Fatherly Advice
Thanks for the verse, Pitchwife. And thanks, again, for that comment (#3) you made many years ago in the "Itaril" thread where you wrote:
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Unrequited Elf-Dwarf Libido How did this interspecies film romance Have anything amounting to a chance If he, the dwarf, had nothing in his shorts And she, the elf, knew only glib retorts? We know that elves and men can mate, it's true, Because Professor Tolkien said they do. But how do elves and dwarves refute the rule That horses crossed with donkeys make a mule? It seems this kind of, tawdry, tame affair Appeals to those without a pubic hair: To boys in bed, both hands beneath the sheets, And girls who've yet to grow a pair of teats. And what of that “young Elf Lord” -- You-Know-Him -- Whose face emotes expressions fell and grim Who left the elf-chick in his dad's employ To go in search of one ten-year-old boy* What does a jilted elf-chick have to do? Abandoned by a dwarf and elf lord, too. It looks like time for yet another plan. Who's left to further her career? A man? Michael Murry, "The Misfortune Teller," Copyright 2017 Note * According to Appendix B of The Lord of the Rings, Aragorn, born in 2931 of the Third Age, would have only reached the age of ten or eleven by 2942, the year that The Hobbit ends with Bilbo's return from his great adventure to Bag End, Hobbiton. I note this because, very near the end of the last Hobbit film, i.e., The Battle of the Five Armies, the "young Elf Lord" Legolas bluntly tells his dad, King Thranduil: "I can't to back." When the Silvan Elf King solemnly asks his son: "Where will you go?" Legolas answers: "I do not know." The Elf King then advises his son: "Go north. Find the Dunedain. There is a young ranger among them. You should meet him. His father, Arathorn, was a good man. His son might grow to be a great one." Legolas then asks the obvious: "What is his name?" To which the King answers, cryptically: "He is known in the wild as 'Strider.' His true name you must discover for yourself." Unfortunately for Legolas in 2942, Lord Elrond in Imladris (Rivendell) reveals to 'Estel' his true name and ancestry, and delivers to him the shards of Narsil and other heirlooms, only in 2951, when Aragorn turns twenty. Therefore, in 2942 when Thranduil attempts to advise his son Legolas where to go: (1) No one but Elrond and Aragorn's mother, Gilraen, know Aragorn's true name or his ancestry. Aragorn himself answers to the name of "Estel." (2) Aragorn lives in Imladris under his pseudonym and not with the Dunedian in the north whose existence he probably doesn't even know about. (3) At the age of ten or eleven his legs have not grown long enough for him to "stride" about in the Wild and earn the nickname "Strider." Anyway, Aragorn doesn't even go out into the Wild knowing his true name and ancestry until he turns twenty. And even then and thereafter, he goes about under any number of assumed names for a great many years. Quite a bit doesn't add up here, and if Legolas actually follows his dad's advice, he will have about seven decades to wander around lost before Lord Elrond reveals Aragorn's true name and lineage to all those assembed at The Council of Elrond in October of 3018. Hard to say all that in a few lines of verse, so "one ten-year-old boy" will have to suffice.
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"If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic." -- Tweedledee Last edited by Michael Murry; 11-23-2017 at 02:38 PM. |
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#14 | |
Wight
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 118
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A part of me says yes and a part of me says no. |
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#15 | ||
Wight of the Old Forest
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall
Posts: 3,329
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Michael, thanks for a little trip down memory lane, back to the days where we could only surmise which of our nightmares would be fulfilled by PJ & company. I'll pass your thanks for the verse on to Uncle Ezra. Quote:
(I'm kidding, of course... or am I? Part of me wouldn't mind watching such a cinematic fan fic, minus the Legolas part and other obvious silliness--if only it were perfectly clear that it's nothing but that, fan fic, and we wouldn't have to explain to future Piles of Bones that Aragorn's fling with that Easterling princess who secretly meant to betray him to dark!Pallando never really happened.)
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Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI |
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