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#1 |
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,330
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To which I would simply respond: it's Tolkien's universe, not ours. One which includes neither Shai-hulud from Dune, Nazgul tombs, dying Arwens nor isolated Orc societies on Tol Fuin.
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
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#2 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
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My Tolkien Universe doesn't even include Tol Fuin (or Himling).
So all yer orcs there... are drownded ![]() But don't get me wrong, I'm still a fun person. |
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#3 |
Wisest of the Noldor
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Well, this just becomes another iteration of the canonicity debate, doesn't it?
![]() Really I see nothing wrong with theories, however outlandish, as long as you don't start insisting they be accepted as the "real" version- which people have been known to do, of course. But that's not the impression I'm getting in this case.
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. |
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#4 | |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,039
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I don't know if anyone brought this up already, but there is a quote from the Unfinished Tales section The Hunt For the Ring which states:
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Anyway, Sauron himself would likely have been frightened of a Nazgûl-ess. Women are quite enigmatic and worrisome enough without being invisible! ![]()
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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#5 | |||
Wisest of the Noldor
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By the way, do half-Nazgûl count?
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. |
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#6 | ||
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
Posts: 3,971
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Tongue obviously firmly in cheek for the above (and please don't take offence - my forceful tone isn't reflected by a forcefulness of spirit), but the point is that any reading of Tolkien has to include gap-filling. To take it to truly ludicrous extremes: did Barliman Butterbur serve drinks to anyone except on the days Gandalf or the hobbits visited him? Obviously so - but it's not specifically described, so to assume he's actually doing his job is an inference. An ironclad logical one, but an inference all the same. That said... no, Tolkien didn't put female Ringwraiths into Middle-earth. (Or toilets.) Quote:
(On the other hand... to have one on his side...) |
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#7 | |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,513
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If all you say is that it's up to us to fill in the gaps, then gaps can be filled with whatever we want. That's how you get Jackson movies. ![]() And as far as patterns go, you'd need to trace one that would support a female Nazgul to pull it off. Female warriors with power, who could be corrupted by Sauron. Sauron himself - would he pick this woman and why. So far most patterns I see point in the other direction.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#8 | |
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,330
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But this can't be extended to things like Nazgul which came completely out of his head. In fact, I think the balance is very slightly tilted the other way in that the primary calque for Middle-earth is of course medieval Europe, a culture not noted for its gender equality.
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
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#9 |
Wight
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 118
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While the Nazgul were all most certainly men. I don't see why hypothetically Sauron would have not given a ring to say a powerful easterling queen or sorceress under his control. No doubt in the east and south in middle earth there were such queens under his sway.
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#10 | |
Wisest of the Noldor
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Mind you, I'm pretty sure my Lalaith = Gothmog II theory is watertight. Clearly that one did slip the Professor's mind. ![]()
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. |
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