Lord of the Rings TV series gets multi-season order at Amazon

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

UPDATE: Maybe it originates from the "official" (ie film-official) maps made for the Hobbit films, e.g. this. I wonder why on earth anyone felt the need to add a non-canonical element to the maps for that. Maybe at some point in the film script "Eastern Dwarves" were going to be mentioned or something, along with the kitchen sink presumably. However, the Reddit person claims (in a rather vehement discourse in another thread) that they pre-date even the Lord of the Rings films, although they don't give any evidence for that.

Someone else on the Reddit thread links to the map from the Fellowship movie, which also features them. Neither movie map shows the weirdly quartered forest, though; that seems original to Amazon (and to my mind confirms that they're intending to go there).

Those rivers coming east off the Sea of Rhun aren't on the Tolkien maps either; they seem to originate from the old Middle-earth Role-Playing game (MERP). This map (1997) shows them, for instance, though I can't find any maps around that date that extend further east. (This version from 1982 doesn't show the rivers or the mountains.)

Interestingly, overlaying either Ambarkanta map IV or V onto my map matching Beleriand to Himling-Fuin-Morwen (you can line up the Blue Mountains and the shore of Beleriand easily, and the endpoint of the March lines up with the Bay of Balar nicely) puts the Orocarni anywhere between the eastern edge of Mirkwood, and the Misty Mountains themselves. It's pretty clear that Tolkien originally thought of his world as a lot smaller, and that the Misty Mountains and the lands around them were a much later addition.

Someone on the Reddit thread has pointed out that the compass is labelled really weirdly: instead of N-E-S-W, it reads D-Th-Nd/Ng-Z/Nj (depending on which version of the Cirth you look at; it can't be Hobbit-style runes or Norse runes, because it uses characters those don't have). That doesn't match any of the known Middle-earth languages (and no, it's not a copy of the Thorin's Map compass either), and the Hobbit/FotR maps from the films were labelled in English.

My best guess is that they used a font set up in a strange order - the Shadow of War game did that with their Tengwar, and people are generally pretty bad about checking. But you never know, there might be something to it.

hS

[Huinesoron]

Seven for the Dwarf Lords, in their halls of stone.

"Calenardhon".

Suddenly this map is 10x more exciting.

EDIT: Could it be the War of the Elves and Sauron? We've got the Ring poem, and the presence of old names like Calenardhon (assumed Gondorian but could be earlier) and Lindon (almost always Second Age). We've got a big obvious space to the right of 'Eriador', and no similar space to fit 'Arthedain' (if they were doing the Fall of Arnor). And it would make a good story, in the Game of Thrones way: Celebrimbor delving into Forbidden Arts with Satanic help, Numenor, if not going full slaver yet, at least utterly disregarding the rights of the local peoples, Lindon forting up and refusing to let anyone in, and Annatar the Bright wandering around stirring up trouble...

(This was suggested to me by someone on another forum, but most of the detail is mine.)

hS

[Kuruharan]

The Orocarni (if that is what those are supposed to be) should be a much larger mountain range.

Given the names on the map, I agree with Huinesoron that the Second Age looks more likely.

[Rhun charioteer]

They've said Young Aragorn, second age would require either the Silmarillion, or the writers are delving ever deeper into outright fanfic.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Rhun charioteer

They've said Young Aragorn, second age would require either the Silmarillion, or the writers are delving ever deeper into outright fanfic.

Do we know what they have the rights to? The rumours at the time of the announcement were that Amazon had been negotiating with the Estate, which they shouldn't have to do if they were just using the same rights as New Line did. And with Christopher retired (and retired at a very pointed time), it's not impossible that they've acquired the right to use Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age, at least.

As for Young Aragorn: yes, they did indeed. So why are they posting maps featuring Calenardhon and Lindon? The latter could be a mistake; the former would require them to have forgotten about Rohan, which Aragorn will probably actually visit.

hS

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

As for Young Aragorn: yes, they did indeed. So why are they posting maps featuring Calenardhon and Lindon? The latter could be a mistake; the former would require them to have forgotten about Rohan, which Aragorn will probably actually visit.

I have a possibly-too-cynical-possibly-not suspicion that they might compress the history so drastically that Aragorn is present at the founding of Rohan, which will be presented as having existed for only about sixty years by the time of the War of the Ring, rather than five hundred.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

I have a possibly-too-cynical-possibly-not suspicion that they might compress the history so drastically that Aragorn is present at the founding of Rohan, which will be presented as having existed for only about sixty years by the time of the War of the Ring, rather than five hundred.

... oh stars.

I would love to say this is utterly ridiculous and inconceivable, were it not for the fact that Shadow of Mordor did precisely that with, well, Mordor.

...

Well, we should at least know soon enough what they're playing at with the map.

hS

("Eorl? Nay, Eorl was my father, young Aragorn; he fought alongside your father Isildur in the Last Alliance. I am Theoden, and I will gladly serve at your side, even should an evil wizard o'erthrow my will and make me his puppet...")

[Rhun charioteer]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Do we know what they have the rights to? The rumours at the time of the announcement were that Amazon had been negotiating with the Estate, which they shouldn't have to do if they were just using the same rights as New Line did. And with Christopher retired (and retired at a very pointed time), it's not impossible that they've acquired the right to use Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age, at least.

As for Young Aragorn: yes, they did indeed. So why are they posting maps featuring Calenardhon and Lindon? The latter could be a mistake; the former would require them to have forgotten about Rohan, which Aragorn will probably actually visit.

hS

They have the rights to the Hobbit and LOTR and the appendices. They don't have the right to the Silmarillion or the unfinished tales or the HoME.

As for compressing the history, they must know that's going to enrage the Tolkien fanbase. Shadows of Mordor was popular because of its innovative and dynamic game mechanics, not its story, Amazon won't be able to use that to get away with it here.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rhun charioteer

As for compressing the history, they must know that's going to enrage the Tolkien fanbase. Shadows of Mordor was popular because of its innovative and dynamic game mechanics, not its story, Amazon won't be able to use that to get away with it here.

I doubt the opinions of "traditional" fans have been much of a factor in the project. They're after the movie fans who only want more of the same.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Rhun charioteer

They have the rights to the Hobbit and LOTR and the appendices. They don't have the right to the Silmarillion or the unfinished tales or the HoME.

Thanks; I didn't realise we'd had confirmation that the bizarre assertion from the news article back when, that '[t]he deal Amazon landed with the estate gives it access to nearly all of the material in the Middle Earth saga (although not 100% of it)', was incorrect. Good to know!

For anyone still thinking about the map, I've just posted a thread over in Books that includes evidence that those eastern mountains are actually Tolkien's own creation, though not necessarily the fabled Orocarni.

hS