Tidbits of Curiosity

[Urwen]

Well, according to Silmarillion, it was 'an evil fruit of Kinslaying'.

Furthermore, there was an instance of first cousins marrying one another: that of Phary and Miriel, where he forced her to marry him against her will, and took the throne that should have been hers in the first place, in accordance with Aldarion's law. And we know how that one ended.

I suspect that, had Maeglin's plan succeeded, both he and Idril would have ended up in the exact same way, sooner or later. The doom of the Noldor would have seen to that, just as Phary's own greed had doomed Numenor and Miriel herself.

In a way, Tuor's actions had spared them from such a fate, even if one of them had to become a sacrifice to save them both.

[Urwen]

Just reposting this so that it is seen too....

Originally Posted by Urwen

Well, according to Silmarillion, it was 'an evil fruit of Kinslaying'.

Furthermore, there was an instance of first cousins marrying one another: that of Phary and Miriel, where he forced her to marry him against her will, and took the throne that should have been hers in the first place, in accordance with Aldarion's law. And we know how that one ended.

I suspect that, had Maeglin's plan succeeded, both he and Idril would have ended up in the exact same way, sooner or later. The doom of the Noldor would have seen to that, just as Phary's own greed had doomed Numenor and Miriel herself.

In a way, Tuor's actions had spared them from such a fate, even if one of them had to become a sacrifice to save them both.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Just reposting this so that it is seen too....

Now do I repost mine so that it's seen under yours which needs to be seen under mine which was seen under yours...?

It's interesting that the Ar-Pharazon story actually went through the exact same change as the Aredhel one, but in reverse! In the original account(s), Miriel was perfectly happy to marry her cousin; there's even an Elendil-aligned character who she breaks off with to do so. The forced marriage is a later conception of Tolkien's, to make her more sympathetic.

The Doom of the Noldor may or may not cover Maeglin (he's only half-Noldo, after all), but should definitely include Idril. Except... it kind of didn't, because as far as we know, she got to cheerfully sail back to Valinor and hang out with her now-immortal husband. Perhaps Seers get a free pass?

(Of course, in later Ages, Galadriel managed to figure out the loophole in the Doom. "To evil end shall all things turn that they begin well"? Ah, but if we just go and take over - pardon me, generously agree to rule - someone else's kingdom, we won't have begun anything...

hS

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Now do I repost mine so that it's seen under yours which needs to be seen under mine which was seen under yours...?

It's interesting that the Ar-Pharazon story actually went through the exact same change as the Aredhel one, but in reverse! In the original account(s), Miriel was perfectly happy to marry her cousin; there's even an Elendil-aligned character who she breaks off with to do so. The forced marriage is a later conception of Tolkien's, to make her more sympathetic.

The Doom of the Noldor may or may not cover Maeglin (he's only half-Noldo, after all), but should definitely include Idril. Except... it kind of didn't, because as far as we know, she got to cheerfully sail back to Valinor and hang out with her now-immortal husband. Perhaps Seers get a free pass?

(Of course, in later Ages, Galadriel managed to figure out the loophole in the Doom. "To evil end shall all things turn that they begin well"? Ah, but if we just go and take over - pardon me, generously agree to rule - someone else's kingdom, we won't have begun anything...

hS

Well, G55 asked me, not you, so yeah.


Your Turin/Idril ship idea is kewl, though....

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Well, G55 asked me, not you, so yeah.

Oops, sorry - I figured the thread was for anyone to jump into. I'm still learning the etiquette around here.

hS

[Urwen]

Could Maeglin be considered a hero in any capacity?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Well, G55 asked me, not you, so yeah.

Well, I posed the question to the public in general, and I'm happy to hear all the "what if" spin-offs.

Originally Posted by Urwen

Could Maeglin be considered a hero in any capacity?

If Macbeth can be considered a tragic hero, Maeglin probably can.

The way the story goes, there is not much sympathy for Maeglin after his initial introduction to Gondolin. It's easy to sympathize with him before that point, but afterwards he leans over to the antagonist side: the haughty prince who speaks down to Hurin and Huor, the weirdo who fantasizes about his cousin, the selfish one who can't get his priorities straight. It's hard to conceptualize him as a hero, even if the story was retold in a more sympathetic light, but he is an antihero - the big character who drives the story, though not somebody one would want to follow or emulate.