Elves visiting Numenor

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by Galin

Just to add, this early 1950s description is, in context, part of the Elfwine-Pengolodh transmission. And to give Tolkien a little more elbow room here, it's arguable that both Annals of Aman and the Grey Annals were (ultimately) not to be considered in-world texts at all, even if mined for a replacement Tale of Years.

I realize we use the texts we have, so to speak, but I like to remind/annoy that the Numenorean-Bilbo transmission seems to have more "fully" bloomed in the 1960s (the speculated date of AAm* throws me a bit here, but so be it with respect to this text and its Numenorean introduction).


In the revised Fellowship of the Ring, from Note on the Shire Records, it's said: "It was probably at Great Smials that The Tales of Years was put together (*represented in much reduced form in Appendix B as far as the end of the Third Age. ( . . .) It is probable that Meriadoc obtained assistance and information from Rivendell, which he visited more than once."

In fuller context the emphasis for this reduced form appears to concern the Second and Third Ages, possibly/arguably leaving room for more explanation concerning authorship with respect to the First Age section.

Or something.

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When is "now" (Finrod in Aman)? In a late text about Glorfindel Tolkien makes a rather notable point about any of the Exiles not being allowed to return to bodily life in Aman before the War of Wrath and the pardon of the Valar. So much so that he (in my opinion) "feels forced" to come up with more that one reason to allow Glorfindel to break that rule (that's another story).

Yep, somehow I know how Tolkien felt when he wrote about Glorfindel


Anyway JRRT actually published (RGEO) that Galadriel was under a special ban from returning West due to her role in leading the Exiles.

A role she shared with Finrod.

Finrod is special in my book, and awesome, but "when" did he walk in Aman back in his own body? Also [sidenote] in the early 1950s, it appears that Finrod would have been walking in Aman with a new body, at least given what we read about Elven reincarnation in the later 1950s, this idea itself revised even later.


I think Tolkien had some work to do here

even if mined for a replacement Tale of Years.

At least externally, AAm and GA were mined extensively for main Silmarillion text; this of course was the consequence of Tolkien's inevitable tendency to expand "annals" into "historical narrative."

*represented in much reduced form in Appendix B as far as the end of the Third Age.

Tolkien's wry reference to the fact that his original, much more detailed Tale of Years had been cut back to the bone at his publishers' insistence.

the speculated date of AAm* throws me a bit here

There's nothing especially mystifying here; Tolkien made an earlier pass at a round-world cosmology but didn't like it so went back to flat-world- until he changed his mind again.

More interesting is the Downfall of Anadune, with its fully Adunaic nomenclature. At this time (mid-late 1940s) it seems that T thought of Numenorean sources as using their own tongue, not Noldorin. Which in turn implies that at the time the Noldorin/Quenya texts were deemed to be of Elvish provenance, presumably (and sometimes explicitly) Pengolodh/Aelfwine. The mannish-tradition theory seems to be mid-late 1960s.

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Finrod and Galadriel: In one of the several versions of her story, T wrote that she "proudly replied that she had no wish to" (repent and) return. Echoes of Sauron! As to Finrod- heroic sacrifice was obviously a Plenary Indulgence to Mandos. T wrote explicitly that that was a big reason Glorfindel got out early, and Finrod of course exemplified the trope from the moment he agreed to leave Nargothrond with Beren, despite having no earthly reason to do so beyond the oath he had sworn to Barahir.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

There's nothing especially mystifying here; Tolkien made an earlier pass at a round-world cosmology but didn't like it so went back to flat-world- until he changed his mind again.

I mean with respect to the Numenorean transmission preamble that begins AAM*. If I recall correctly, Christopher Tolkien's stab at a date for AAM* is early 1950s.

The earlier pass at a Round World Ainulindale (version C*) appears to have been written "before the writing of the Return of the King" (CJRT) or at least before The Lord of the Rings was finished . . . and in any case, Elfwine still appears in Ainulindale C*, as I read the description in Morgoth's Ring anyway.


It's true, I guess we can say that there's nothing especially mystifying with Tolkien changing his mind, but what "throws me a bit" is: Christopher Tolkien's statement on dating AAM*: "There seems no way to determine with certainty when it was made, and I can only record my feeling that it belongs with the writing of the AAm manuscript rather than to some later time. At any rate my father soon abandoned it (see, p. 80)." CJRT, section 1 AAm*


No problem. But I think even CJRT would admit that this reads pretty uncertain, while, if I may be so bold, the Numenorean preamble at least, arguably fits better with the later 1950s, where Numenor mixes with Myths Transformed.

If not so be it. It doesn't throw me that much

In other words, the Numenorean transmission Preamble to AAM*, if it lives in the early 1950s, seems fairly "surrounded" by the old Elfwine-Pengolodh transmission.