"Bad Guy" Trivia - Page 19 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Huinesoron · 05-16-2019, 08:09 AM

Mordor is the correct answer.

I was specifically thinking of Sauron's dark towers, with Beleriand being Tol-in-Gaurhoth; probably should have said 'West Beleriand' to keep people from thinking of Angband.

Back to you, G55 (and, Urwen - did you just unflinchingly cast the Halls of Mandos as a dark fortress? I kinda like that!)

hS

Urwen · 05-16-2019, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Mordor is the correct answer.

I was specifically thinking of Sauron's dark towers, with Beleriand being Tol-in-Gaurhoth; probably should have said 'West Beleriand' to keep people from thinking of Angband.

Back to you, G55 (and, Urwen - did you just unflinchingly cast the Halls of Mandos as a dark fortress? I kinda like that!)

hS

I meant Utumno.

Huinesoron · 05-16-2019, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

I meant Utumno.

Ah. In that case, Utumno is (was) far to the east of Beleriand, probably somewhere in the Grey Mountains; it's not in Aman.

hS

Galadriel55 · 05-16-2019, 09:58 AM

Ok, here goes.

These benign and mostly benevolent people were used for evil purposes by one consumed with greed and one consumed with vengeance.

Urwen · 05-16-2019, 10:00 AM

Thingol and Hurin, most definitely. The former was slain because of his own greed, the latter sought vengeance against those who had wronged his children.

Galadriel55 · 05-16-2019, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Thingol and Hurin, most definitely. The former was slain because of his own greed, the latter sought vengeance against those who had wronged his children.

Most definitely not! The "people" were used by the one with greed and the one with vengeance, they aren't the same people. Read carefully.

The clue had a typo, now corrected.

Urwen · 05-16-2019, 10:15 AM

Okay, then one must be Tar-Miriel, who was used by Pharazon so he could obtain the throne which wasn't his.

For the other, I am drawing a blank. Morgoth, who used Hurin, Maeglin and the House of Ulfang for his evil purposes comes to mind, and he did desire vengeance, but, as Huinesoron pointed out, none of them was completely benevolent.

Then there is Sauron, who more or less used Denethor and Gollum, but again, neither of them were completely benevolent.

(In fact, the only person who could reasonably be called 'pure' is Frodo, who resisted the lure of the Ring for the longest time, only to succumb at the end. But he wasn't really 'used' by anybody.)

Lotho comes to mind. We don't know much about him, except that he was used by Saruman as a puppet ruler, and then killed on his orders.

So Tar-Miriel and Lotho are my guess.

Galadriel55 · 05-16-2019, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Okay, then one must be Tar-Miriel, who was used by Pharazon so he could obtain the throne which wasn't his.

For the other, I am drawing a blank. Morgoth, who used Hurin, Maeglin and the House of Ulfang for his evil purposes comes to mind, and he did desire vengeance, but, as Huinesoron pointed out, none of them was completely benevolent.

Then there is Sauron, who more or less used Denethor and Gollum, but again, neither of them were completely benevolent.

(In fact, the only person who could reasonably be called 'pure' is Frodo, who resisted the lure of the Ring for the longest time, only to succumb at the end. But he wasn't really 'used' by anybody.)

Lotho comes to mind. We don't know much about him, except that he was used by Saruman as a puppet ruler, and then killed on his orders.

So Tar-Miriel and Lotho are my guess.

Some of your thoughts are on the right track, but none of the guesses for "people" are right.

Read the clue carefully. Some "people", collectively, were used by two separate individuals, one associated with "greed" and one associated with "vengeance". Answer with a combination that the clue is asking for.

Urwen · 05-16-2019, 10:38 AM

The same people or different people?

Urwen · 05-16-2019, 10:40 AM

Eruhini (Elves and Edain) were used by Melkor and Sauron.

Galadriel55 · 05-16-2019, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Eruhini (Elves and Edain) were used by Melkor and Sauron.

Not tye answer, but this is the right structure/format.

Urwen · 05-16-2019, 11:55 AM

You missed this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

The same people or different people?

Maybe the Numenoreans/Gondorians?

Galadriel55 · 05-16-2019, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

You missed this:

Maybe the Numenoreans/Gondorians?

1) I did not miss it, I think you don't need the explicit answer to that question to find the solution. Consider the way the question is phrased and what I told you about the format.

2) Are Numenorians/Gondorians the people, the greedy one, or the vengeful one? What are the other two? That's not a clear or complete answer.

(But no, they are not the answer to either of the components).

Urwen · 05-16-2019, 12:31 PM

Maybe the Shire-Folk, who were used by Lotho (the greedy one) and Saruman (the vengeful one)

Galadriel55 · 05-16-2019, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Maybe the Shire-Folk, who were used by Lotho (the greedy one) and Saruman (the vengeful one)

Veeery close. A little more specific.

Urwen · 05-16-2019, 03:49 PM

The Shirrifs?

Galadriel55 · 05-16-2019, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

The Shirrifs?

Indeed so! A worthy service turned to evil purposes by Lotho and Saruman. Over to you!

Urwen · 05-16-2019, 04:34 PM

Speaking of groups.....

Which group of people attempted - and failed - to avenge their fallen leader?

Urwen · 05-17-2019, 10:36 AM

Give this some love too.

Galadriel55 · 05-17-2019, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Give this some love too.

Not sure how. Haven't thought of such a group yet - that would also be tied to something bad guy-ish.

Urwen · 05-17-2019, 02:29 PM

They are definitely listed as villains on Tolkien Gateway.

Galadriel55 · 05-17-2019, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

They are definitely listed as villains on Tolkien Gateway.

If they really are villains, confirmation from the TG is not really necessary. Hmm...

The goblins from the Misty Mountains, attacking in the Battle of Five Armies to avenge the Dwarves for the slaying of their King?

Urwen · 05-18-2019, 03:21 AM

Not who I had in mind.

Urwen · 05-25-2019, 04:45 AM

It was these guys

I declare a free-for-all

Urwen · 07-04-2019, 02:43 PM

And I am in ASOIAF mood, so.....

Which bad guy did a thing which would be considered normal in ASOIAF-verse, but bad in Tolkien-verse?

Pervinca Took · 07-07-2019, 07:34 AM

I've never read a sentence or watched a single episode of it, I'm afraid. Don't want to start, either. I don't have time.

Urwen · 07-07-2019, 07:35 AM

Okay.

Urwen · 07-07-2019, 07:35 AM

Then maybe you'd be interested in giving a question of your own, here?

Pervinca Took · 07-07-2019, 07:39 AM

No time at the moment - sorry.

Urwen · 02-29-2020, 03:51 PM

Time to revive this as well.

How did Morleg die?

Huinesoron · 02-29-2020, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Time to revive this as well.

How did Morleg die?

Okay. 'Mor' is dark. 'leg' shows up at the end of Beleg, but I think there it's actually -eg. Definitely a Sindarin name, either way.

But maybe not late Sindarin? 'Morl' has a slightly early feel to it. So I'm thinking older name for some character.

I don't recognise it as an elf, and I usually pay attention to those, so mortal. I'm... that 'dark' is making me thing Turin. So either:

a) It was a name Tolkien once used for Turin, who died of draconic manipulation and talking sword.

or

b) it's a member of Turin's outlaws, who... something to do with Mim? He brought in orcs to kill them, right?

hS, going book-free

Urwen · 02-29-2020, 06:25 PM

You're right, it's an older name for a character, but you're barking at the wrong tree. And remember that this is a 'bad guy' trivia.

(And I'll also admit I am deceiving you a bit here, but if anyone could see through my deception, it'd be you, Huinesoron.)

Huinesoron · 03-01-2020, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

You're right, it's an older name for a character, but you're barking at the wrong tree. And remember that this is a 'bad guy' trivia.

(And I'll also admit I am deceiving you a bit here, but if anyone could see through my deception, it'd be you, Huinesoron.)

I had actually forgotten that it was bad guys...

If you're being deceptive, I'm going to go with 'He didn't'.

hS

Urwen · 03-01-2020, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I had actually forgotten that it was bad guys...

If you're being deceptive, I'm going to go with 'He didn't'.

hS

Oh, he died all right.

Galadriel55 · 03-01-2020, 03:27 PM

Alright then, he died of a broken heart.

Have no idea who he is, other than he does not sound Third Age to me, so it's hard to answer your questions about him without looking up the name.

Urwen · 03-01-2020, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Alright then, he died of a broken heart.

Have no idea who he is, other than he does not sound Third Age to me, so it's hard to answer your questions about him without looking up the name.

Well, I guess you could say he did, but the answer is factually incorrect.

Galadriel55 · 03-02-2020, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Well, I guess you could say he did, but the answer is factually incorrect.

If so, did he die after a wrench? Specifically, this wrench? And a topple off the cliff that followed?

Urwen · 03-02-2020, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

If so, did he die after a wrench? Specifically, this wrench? And a topple off the cliff that followed?

Yes and no.

Huinesoron · 03-02-2020, 05:09 PM

I am intrigued to see that the standalone Fall of Gondolin indexes 'Moeleg' as the Sindarin form of 'Melkor'. Could be the same name in a different reading, which I think means that, per the Second Prophecy of Mandos, he dies from an overdose of Turin.

hS

Urwen · 03-02-2020, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I am intrigued to see that the standalone Fall of Gondolin indexes 'Moeleg' as the Sindarin form of 'Melkor'. Could be the same name in a different reading, which I think means that, per the Second Prophecy of Mandos, he dies from an overdose of Turin.

hS

Wrong. I didn't say 'Moeleg', but 'Morleg'. Check you War of the Jewels copy, yo.

05-16-2019, 09:58 AM	#724
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,517	Ok, here goes. These benign and mostly benevolent people were used for evil purposes by one consumed with greed and one consumed with vengeance. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 05-16-2019 at 10:07 AM.

05-16-2019, 10:00 AM	#725
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Thingol and Hurin, most definitely. The former was slain because of his own greed, the latter sought vengeance against those who had wronged his children. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

05-16-2019, 10:15 AM	#727
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Okay, then one must be Tar-Miriel, who was used by Pharazon so he could obtain the throne which wasn't his. For the other, I am drawing a blank. Morgoth, who used Hurin, Maeglin and the House of Ulfang for his evil purposes comes to mind, and he did desire vengeance, but, as Huinesoron pointed out, none of them was completely benevolent. Then there is Sauron, who more or less used Denethor and Gollum, but again, neither of them were completely benevolent. (In fact, the only person who could reasonably be called 'pure' is Frodo, who resisted the lure of the Ring for the longest time, only to succumb at the end. But he wasn't really 'used' by anybody.) Lotho comes to mind. We don't know much about him, except that he was used by Saruman as a puppet ruler, and then killed on his orders. So Tar-Miriel and Lotho are my guess. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. Last edited by Urwen; 05-16-2019 at 10:19 AM.

05-16-2019, 10:38 AM	#729
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	The same people or different people? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

05-16-2019, 10:40 AM	#730
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Eruhini (Elves and Edain) were used by Melkor and Sauron. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

05-16-2019, 08:09 AM	#721
Huinesoron Overshadowed Eagle Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea Posts: 3,972	Mordor is the correct answer. I was specifically thinking of Sauron's dark towers, with Beleriand being Tol-in-Gaurhoth; probably should have said 'West Beleriand' to keep people from thinking of Angband. Back to you, G55 (and, Urwen - did you just unflinchingly cast the Halls of Mandos as a dark fortress? I kinda like that!) hS

05-16-2019, 12:31 PM	#734
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Maybe the Shire-Folk, who were used by Lotho (the greedy one) and Saruman (the vengeful one) __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

05-16-2019, 03:49 PM	#736
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	The Shirrifs? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

05-16-2019, 04:34 PM	#738
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Speaking of groups..... Which group of people attempted - and failed - to avenge their fallen leader? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

05-17-2019, 10:36 AM	#739
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Give this some love too. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

05-17-2019, 02:29 PM	#741
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	They are definitely listed as villains on Tolkien Gateway. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

05-18-2019, 03:21 AM	#743
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Not who I had in mind. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

05-25-2019, 04:45 AM	#744
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	It was these guys I declare a free-for-all __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

07-04-2019, 02:43 PM	#745
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	I am reviving this...... And I am in ASOIAF mood, so..... Which bad guy did a thing which would be considered normal in ASOIAF-verse, but bad in Tolkien-verse? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

07-07-2019, 07:34 AM	#746
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	I've never read a sentence or watched a single episode of it, I'm afraid. Don't want to start, either. I don't have time. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always."

07-07-2019, 07:35 AM	#747
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Okay. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

07-07-2019, 07:35 AM	#748
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Then maybe you'd be interested in giving a question of your own, here? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

07-07-2019, 07:39 AM	#749
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	No time at the moment - sorry. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always."

02-29-2020, 03:51 PM	#750
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Time to revive this as well. How did Morleg die? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. Last edited by Urwen; 02-29-2020 at 04:18 PM.

02-29-2020, 06:25 PM	#752
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	You're right, it's an older name for a character, but you're barking at the wrong tree. And remember that this is a 'bad guy' trivia. (And I'll also admit I am deceiving you a bit here, but if anyone could see through my deception, it'd be you, Huinesoron.) __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. Last edited by Urwen; 02-29-2020 at 06:31 PM.

03-01-2020, 03:27 PM	#755
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,517	Alright then, he died of a broken heart. Have no idea who he is, other than he does not sound Third Age to me, so it's hard to answer your questions about him without looking up the name. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

03-02-2020, 05:09 PM	#759
Huinesoron Overshadowed Eagle Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea Posts: 3,972	I am intrigued to see that the standalone Fall of Gondolin indexes 'Moeleg' as the Sindarin form of 'Melkor'. Could be the same name in a different reading, which I think means that, per the Second Prophecy of Mandos, he dies from an overdose of Turin. hS