Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXV: On the Borders of Mirkwood Planning Thread

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

This was the first thing that came to my mind here. If the dead are able to communicate a name every day, regardless of what the intended function of it is, they are able to communicate the wolf dreams of a dead seer. The seer, in turn, does not have to worry about leaving hints about their dreams, making them so much harder to spot for the wolves.

What if the living aren't explicitly told who the medium is and instead only the vote count is revealed? Would that be better or worse?

I don't think I've ever seen this idea before! I think this would serve the purpose of encouraging the Seer to leave hints; I don't know whether that's something we necessarily want to encourage, though. I think Brinn played an incredible Seer game in that new style last game, and I'd want to see a couple more tries at it before I decide whether it's unbalanced or whether Brinn was just that good.

[satansaloser2005]

Signing up now, will return at a later time with thoughts on concept, but this looks amazing!

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Signing up now, will return at a later time with thoughts on concept, but this looks amazing!

^What she said!

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

That is something that hasn't been done before, if I remember right, and therefore I am all for it.

I've seen something similar done before, and it works very nicely. (It gets even funnier when you have multiple factors influencing the vote, and don't reveal anything except who was killed. Then the villagers get to spend the night puzzling over why someone with only one vote wound up lynched...!)

I see I've been tentatively signed up for this one? Given how many people are coming back to the Downs over these games, I'd like to opt out for now, to free up space for a returning player. If you feel the game is still small enough when people stop signing up, I'll happily opt back in.

Speaking of that limit: you've been talking about only activating the Nightmare Wolf once two wolves are dead, but with only three wolves, I feel like there's a huge risk that the NW will be entirely useless, because the Seer could well already know the identity of the final wolf by the time it activates.

hS

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Haha, well in that case I would say it shall be when Dol Guldur is known as Amon Lanc

Originally Posted by Boromir88

My thinking is to be empowered to be a Medium, and a "voice for the dead" it would mean a majority from the dead. I considered your suggestion that dead wolves vote would count as 2 in the dead thread, but thought that might give them too much power in impacting the Day lynch. And a Medium could be chosen by essentially the dead wolf (and not the majority of the dead). After already giving the dead wolf, in the form of the NW, a power to effect the gifteds at Night, I steered away from allowing them the potential power to pick a Medium.

I mean technically they could still have that potential, but it would just be a little harder. It would also give the chance that there would be no Medium, and therefor no living players vote gets doubled.

I'm not sure if that would make it too restricting for the dead innocents. But I have read the very first WW game on the Downs, where the Barrow-wight allowed retractable votes. Once a player reached a majority the voting stopped and the player was lynched right away. I won't allow retractable votes in the Living thread, that's just too much of a headache.

But I think given how difficult it could be for the dead to agree on a Medium, I would allow the dead retractable votes. And then just go by the B-W's rule. Once the majority threshold is hit, that person is automatically chosen as Medium for that Day. I would post in the Living thread once I see that happen. In the event the threshold is not met 2 hours prior to the DL, I would post in the Living thread there was too much division amongst the dead and they chose no Medium that day.

Very well! Sound logic.

That majority part makes sense, except [see below on revealing the Medium only on DL].

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Actually, could probably include this possibility in Option 1 as well. That is the NW goes into effect once there are 2 dead wolves. They don't have to send in a haunt every night, but if they do the person, regardless of role will be notified?

I like it and these could indeed be combined. I am definitely for the 2 dead WWs quota (or something similar, but this would work well I think).

Originally Posted by Rikae

That depends on whether you want to block the possibility of the living and dead using the empowered votes to send messages rather than just empower a vote. I could see them setting something up day one like "after the seer dies, this vote means X and that means Y", and that sort of thing tends to take excitement and suspense out of the game.
If you wait to reveal the empowered vote at deadline it could help avoid that situation.

Originally Posted by Loslote

I don't think I've ever seen this idea before! I think this would serve the purpose of encouraging the Seer to leave hints; I don't know whether that's something we necessarily want to encourage, though. I think Brinn played an incredible Seer game in that new style last game, and I'd want to see a couple more tries at it before I decide whether it's unbalanced or whether Brinn was just that good.

It has been done before and exactly it has been abused that way. I'm therefore with Rikae on revealing the thing only at the DL. That way, we also eliminate the "waiting for the QT to tell us what they think before we vote"-effect.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

What if the living aren't explicitly told who the medium is and instead only the vote count is revealed? Would that be better or worse?

On first sight, to me it sounds like a terrible mess. As in, I could imagine half of the next Day spent by the villagers bickering about "I was the Medium yesterDay" "no, *I* was the Medium! The Dead trust me!" "No! You both shut up, it was me who was the Medium!!!"

...although that, too, might be fun. But let's think about it from all angles.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Reporting for duty!

Is there a cobbler in this game? If not, there is now.

Woot! And yes there is a cobbler.

With 13-15 players I'm thinking

1 Seer
1 Ranger
1 Hunter
3 wolves
1 Cobbler
6-8 Villagers

I suspect we'll get to 16+, in which I will add a 4th wolf. And the regular hunter will become a Beast Hunter.

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I see I've been tentatively signed up for this one? Given how many people are coming back to the Downs over these games, I'd like to opt out for now, to free up space for a returning player. If you feel the game is still small enough when people stop signing up, I'll happily opt back in.

I mean, if you wish. I don't expect there will be as many as Nog's game, but there is no limited # of spots. I wanted to leave the possibility that it could be a smaller sized village, but also if there are more players it could balance out.

Speaking of that limit: you've been talking about only activating the Nightmare Wolf once two wolves are dead, but with only three wolves, I feel like there's a huge risk that the NW will be entirely useless, because the Seer could well already know the identity of the final wolf by the time it activates.

With 3 wolves I was leaning towards pre-determining 1 the NW and informing the entire pack who it was. That would seem fair.

With 4 wolves I'm leaning towards the once 2 are dead, together they become powerful enough to activate the NW powers.

I'll think about the Medium more and get more input.

I agree it would be better to only explicitly reveal the Medium (or that there was none) at the DL. I could include it in the narration of the lynch. This would allow the dead to still possibly send messages, but it would also give the wolves the chance at night to strategize what that message possibly is. If I explicitly reveal during the Day, I can see how that kills the suspense on that Day.

I also see where Mac is going with not explicitly revealing and just having the final vote count. It would be clear if none was chosen. There still might be a message sent from the dead, it could take quite a bit of unraveling. But that could benefit the village side, as if the "possible" Medium was hiding in between 5 other voters. The confusion of unraveling who the Medium was could benefit wolves, but not revealing the Medium could benefit the village as in not putting a "kill me" target on that person's back.

I'll think about it some more. Either way, the Medium (or no Medium chosen) won't be known by the Living until the end of the DL, and included in the narration.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Signing up now, will return at a later time with thoughts on concept, but this looks amazing!

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

^What she said!

Thirded! But with a question mark for now. I think I can really only manage playing in a smaller village at this point.


Edit: Crossposted with the new Mod God over on (haha!) Facebook Messenger

[Kath]

I'm very happy to play again but, like Hui, if it gets too big and someone who didn't get to play in the last game needs the spot then that's fine.

I think that so far I understand about one of these new rules but given that I spend most games faintly confused I can't see that being too much of a problem!

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Kath

I think that so far I understand about one of these new rules but given that I spend most games faintly confused I can't see that being too much of a problem!

That didn't work very well for us concerning the Innocent Child early in the previous game, did it?

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

Thirded! But with a question mark for now. I think I can really only manage playing in a smaller village at this point.


Edit: Crossposted with the new Mod God over on (haha!) Facebook Messenger

Originally Posted by Kath

I'm very happy to play again but, like Hui, if it gets too big and someone who didn't get to play in the last game needs the spot then that's fine.

I think that so far I understand about one of these new rules but given that I spend most games faintly confused I can't see that being too much of a problem!

Welcome Welcome. I guess we'll see what happens.

I believe Nog and Brinn still intend to to play again in June. I also sent a message to Nilp (same message to Lhuna, and we happened to cross post through different platforms! ) and Agan saying it would be nice if they were able to come back for a summer game.