![]() |
![]() |
Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page |
|
![]() |
#1 | ||
Guardian of the Blind
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Where The Skies End
Posts: 899
![]() |
Quote:
Quote:
Like...I knew it wouldn't be faithful, but...ugh... I don't believe that Tolkien ever mentioned skin color unless it was actually relevant ie: Orcs are black and their blood is black and they are corrupted. Elves are described as "fair". Dwarves are described as "rock-like" or "hewn of stone" or whatever. Rocks come in a large variety of colors so where's my green Dwarf, huh? Their whole concept of "modern" appears to be based on skin color. Now Ismael (Arondir) says that they are trying to modernize Jackson's work, which is more like it. Nomvete needs to read a book by Tolkien and separate Jackson and Tolkien's visions. Also, don't Elves have long hair? Shouldn't Sauron have long hair? Shadow of Mordor Sauron looks more like what I imagine a "nice" Sauron to look like. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 | |||||
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
Posts: 3,971
![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
The quotes from the actors/showrunners used by the article make it clear that: Quote:
But of course: Quote:
Quote:
Isn't there a word for declaring that something is being ruined by the very presence of non-white people in it? HINT: It's racism. It's just racism. Tolkien created a world - quite possibly the most beautiful secondary world in existence - and he wrote about only tiny slices in space and time. Middle-earth is vast enough - it is grand enough - to include adaptations that don't look like Jackson or Nasmith or Baynes' interpretations of the characters. There is room in Middle-earth for non-white people to see characters who look like them. And there is definitely room for people who are white to see characters who don't look like them. ~ Quote:
He's definitely not "nice Sauron"/Annatar, given that he spends his time scowling evilly and blowing sparks and shadow from his hand. You think anyone imagines Celebrimbor would be fooled by that? "Oh, hey Annatar my best buddy, I see you've been building dark citadels filled with the screams of the damned in my garden again. Having trouble sleeping?" hS
__________________
Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera |
|||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 | |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,513
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
Dependong on what they mean though, this can be a good thing: "everyone sort of has their frame of reference in terms of their culture, their heritage, what it means to them, their language". It's a comon trend in recent years, to define the quality of a story by certain characteristics of diversity. Certain characteristics only, because some aren't popular topics of contention. Diversity complaints about language haven't made it to the front pages yet, or else Tolkien would be hailed as the great promoter of inclusivity. And the idea that a story NEEDS to meet a diversity checklist to be a good story - sorry, it does not. Diversity in a story is neither bad nor good, but needs to realistically reflect and enrich the setting, the place and the time. Sometimes more is more, but sometimes less is more, deoending on your setting. I don't hear anyone complaining that all the characters in Moana are Polynesian, or Asian in Mulan - because it makes sense, what else would they be. But have a story set in Medieval Europe, and how dare they only depict ethnic Europeans. But that's beside the point, that's just me ranting on the general state of affairs. If RoP actually makes their diversity about more than just skin colour - language, culture, heritage, belief systems - I think it could be a big redeeming factor. Do something with it, make it more than just a checkbox to tick off. I think Lommy picked up on this before at some point. But how much faith do I have in them doing something good with it? Meh, hope dies last, they say. I'm making an effort of seeing the positives.
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
Posts: 3,971
![]() ![]() |
![]()
Images from the latest trailer:
Opening shot: Galadriel and the pile of helmets. Looks like a Battle of Beleriand to me. ![]() My favourite shot: Galadriel, Miriel, and a Palantir. The Seeing-Stone is covered here, but it's absolutely gorgeous when they take the cloth off. ![]() And two shots in one: Cultist Eminem, in closeup and with his buddies. ![]() He's definitely designed to look like a priest/cultist - check out that staff! It looks like a human woman on the right of the image, holding what I'm parsing as a drum (she has a hand on top of it, so I don't think shield). On the left could be an armoured human; could be a Numenorean soldier without the helmet plume; could also be an animal-skull orc. I can't really tell. hS
__________________
Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
Guardian of the Blind
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Where The Skies End
Posts: 899
![]() |
The costume designs are gorgeous. The locations and details to buildings and objects is amazing. I'll give them that. It's definitely visually appealing.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,330
![]() ![]() ![]() |
Forced "diversity" of melanin levels is just part of the faddish silliness of the age, and gets a lot of people very exercised about trivialities. I am more concerned about the writing- and what I have seen of it suggests that this thing will make the MCU look like Shakespeare.
__________________
The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 | |
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
Posts: 3,971
![]() ![]() |
Quote:
Even on the writing side... the dialogue we've heard is decent enough, allowing for the fact that it's been clipped for trailer lines. The overarching plot is fundamentally time-compressed Tolkien - I can accept that for narrative reasons. But the show is going to stand or fall on the in-between stages of the writing - the plot beats, the character decisions, the coincidences and dei ex machina which need to be invoked to get it all to hang together. And we've seen... basically nothing of that. Galadriel thinks there's baddies around; Elrond apparently doesn't. Galadriel goes on a boat, maybe to Valinor, maybe gets shipwrecked. The dwarves don't like Elrond. Orcs are bad. Miriel has an army, a Palantir, and apparently a baby. We have no idea how all that hangs together. I feel like we've seen the most out of Galadriel, but I could still write a dozen plots that would fit with her known scenes. It could be terrible! It could be awesome! We could have the entire sequence of events backwards, and the trailers and interviews could have been carefully cut to make us believe the opposite of what's actually in the show! It's not going to be Tolkien. It can't be - he's dead, and he didn't leave us a novel of the Fall of Numenor, just an array of very brief summaries and some very old drafts. What I, personally, am hoping for is something that feels like an adaptation of the novel Tolkien didn't write - something as close to the hypothetical Numenor book as, say, the Jackson films were to LotR. Yes, there will be Osgiliations and random Haldirs, and "By Elbereth and Luthien the fair" will be replaced by "If you want him, come and claim him" - but I hope it will feel like I can see the book behind it, and imagine that I could reach in and pull a copy out to read. (The Fall of Numenor doesn't count, though I fully intend to give it a place on my shelf alongside the Great Tales.) hS
__________________
Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|
![]() |