Ruin of Doriath - Final Part - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

ArcusCalion · 08-18-2022, 07:06 AM

I am just dropping in to weigh in on the Haudh question. The last word, Arasaith, is not likely to be proper Sindarin. I will try to lay it out here:

Arasaith was Tolkien's Noldorin update of Idrisaith in Gnomish. He does not break it down, but it seems to be made from:

G. saith - hunger
G. avos - wealth, prosperity, fortune, luck

With regards to saith there has been a proposed updated version to follow Sindarin development becoming saeg but this is Neo-Sindarin, and requires the switching of the original Gnomish root ᴱ√SAẎA to ᴺ√SAYAK, due to Tolkien's use of a -kǝ suffix to form all the derivative words (eQ: saike, saiqa, G> saig, saith). Because saig exists also as a G. derivative of the root, given as meaning "hungry," I think this neo-Sindarin saeg is very soundly reasoned and argued, and I think it is fine to use.

With regards to avos The situation is less cut and dry. The word is originally said to be derived from ᴱ√AW̯A, which has derivatives having to do with wealth. However, much later, in 1969 linguistic notes, Tolkien references a root √AW, meaning 'have in hand, possess, own.' This he gives the Quenya derivative aura - possession, thing owned. I think for our purposes we can use the Ara- element of Arasaith as a derivative of √AW, perhaps as a cognate of Q. aura: possession. Since Arasaith essentially meant "wealth-hunger" our new word might mean "possession-hunger" but I think the sense is still essentially the same.

Putting this elements together with the correctly updated initial part of the word gives us Haudh-en-Arasaeg for which Mound of Avarice is still a good translation.

I personally would be fine using this updated name, but I leave that up to you.

08-18-2022, 07:06 AM	#34
ArcusCalion Quentingolmo Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 525	I am just dropping in to weigh in on the Haudh question. The last word, Arasaith, is not likely to be proper Sindarin. I will try to lay it out here: Arasaith was Tolkien's Noldorin update of Idrisaith in Gnomish. He does not break it down, but it seems to be made from: G. saith - hunger G. avos - wealth, prosperity, fortune, luck With regards to saith there has been a proposed updated version to follow Sindarin development becoming saeg but this is Neo-Sindarin, and requires the switching of the original Gnomish root ᴱ√SAẎA to ᴺ√SAYAK, due to Tolkien's use of a -kǝ suffix to form all the derivative words (eQ: saike, saiqa, G> saig, saith). Because saig exists also as a G. derivative of the root, given as meaning "hungry," I think this neo-Sindarin saeg is very soundly reasoned and argued, and I think it is fine to use. With regards to avos The situation is less cut and dry. The word is originally said to be derived from ᴱ√AW̯A, which has derivatives having to do with wealth. However, much later, in 1969 linguistic notes, Tolkien references a root √AW, meaning 'have in hand, possess, own.' This he gives the Quenya derivative aura - possession, thing owned. I think for our purposes we can use the Ara- element of Arasaith as a derivative of √AW, perhaps as a cognate of Q. aura: possession. Since Arasaith essentially meant "wealth-hunger" our new word might mean "possession-hunger" but I think the sense is still essentially the same. Putting this elements together with the correctly updated initial part of the word gives us Haudh-en-Arasaeg for which Mound of Avarice is still a good translation. I personally would be fine using this updated name, but I leave that up to you.