Survivor: The Second Age

[Lalaith]

++CELEBRIAN

A good and noble elfwoman, but the least outstanding in Middle Earth of those contestants left.

[The Saucepan Man]

I must concur that it's time to knock down a sacred cow, in this case literally so ( :rolleyes: ;) ).

+ + GALADRIEL

After all, she treated her husband appallingly, the poor fellow. :p

Furthermore, she stifled the realm of Lorien and all who dwelt within it with her obsession with preserving it and trying to turn it in to some kind of Valinor on Middle-earth. If she wanted to live in Valinor she should have stayed there. But no. She wanted to rule her own realm, which she could not do in Valinor. That hardly shows humility, now, does it?

And her efforts to "embalm" Lorien were totally contrary to the natural order of things, which requires change, via the cycle of life, to renew and referesh. All she achieved was to stifle and stultify.

Given half a chance, she will no doubt try to do the same with the Survivor Island. She must be stopped!

[Celuien]

You're forcing my hand... :mad:

++CELEBRIAN

Known only for getting into trouble by an irresponsible journey through orc territory.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

+ + Galadriel

As she herself observed, she'd make one scary-mama
if given too much power. :eek:

[Elu Ancalime]

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.


You'd think the fate of eight previous elves (daddy + 7)
significantly caused by pride in their powers would
have had some influence on him.

Action, reaction, and stupidity.
________
Magic Flight Launch Box (http://www.vaporshop.com/mflb-vaporizer.html)

[The 1,000 Reader]

Galadriel has long based herself on her pride, and with the time passed on the island and her still remaining, that pride has most likely become the fuel for an ego trip. Such a thing puts her in danger, and so she is the enemy of all on the island.

++Galadriel.

[Diamond18]

+ + Galadriel

Now that she no longer has her husband around to dominate, her more aggressive tendencies no longer have a healthy outlet and she will not be able to keep her dark side in check. Galadriel is full of dangerous, barely restrained Dark Lordess power. Maybe she ought to go diffuse it somewhere else.

~Diamond~
All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression

[Lhunardawen]

++CELEBRIAN

Same old, same old.

Come now, Galadriel makes a great strategic Survivor player! :p

[Formendacil]

Day Twenty-four ended with some evil cackling from the Moderator. His malicious plan had succeeded! *Moans the lack of an Evil Smiley!* The voting fell as follows:

Celebrían: III

Galadriel: IIIII II

And so the male and female balance of the game was restored...

Those Remaining:
Celebrían
Celebrimbor
Tar-Míriel
Anárion

Day 25 now commences, and I'm gleefully pleased to see that Galadriel is gone. Vote away!

[Lalaith]

You all fell for it, didn't you... :rolleyes:

Anyway, I'm getting worried about Anarion. He's just flying in under the radar here. And while I'm glad he's got this far, his contributions to Second Age life, to survival on the island and to the entertainment of viewers don't quite match up to the others.
++ANARION

[JennyHallu]

++Celebrimbor, for reasons previously stated and general massive hubris.

[Firefoot]

++Anarion

For not really contributing that much. He's not even a character that you feel like you can know, nor is he particularly controversial or interesting. When it comes right down to it, he doesn't deserve to win Survivor.

[Celuien]

Day 25 now commences, and I'm gleefully pleased to see that Galadriel is gone.
My displeasure at losing both Celeborn and Galadriel again(!) is beyond words. And beyond the upset portrayed by the mad smiley, so I won't bother to use it.

++ ANARION

Firefoot and Lalaith are correct. What has he contributed? Not very much. How embarrassing would it be for this program to have a victor known only as the younger brother of another losing contestant?

[The 1,000 Reader]

Hold on people, Anarion was a prince who fought for what he believed in. Celebrian was a queen through marriage who did something stupid and got hurt. Surely we should send off the less important one first, right?

++Celebrian.



Reasons already said.

[Eonwe]

++Anarion

He's cool, but he's not that cool. Sure he fought bravely in the Siege of Barad-Dur, but he didn't live to do anything really great and/or glorious. Which happens to be a prerequisit for winning this contest, in my book.

[Diamond18]

+ + Celebrimbor

For crafting rings of power, which isn't the smartest thing to do. Sure, you might get a chap like Gandalf who knows how to put one of them to good use, but the majority of ringbearers caused chaos because power corrupts. Not to mention Sauron got in on the whole thing. Overall, the rings were a bad idea.

[the phantom]

I posted this earlier, but it seems I need to repeat myself.
Well, I hate to break it to you, but the Rings will still happen so long as there are other elven-smiths in Hollin as well as Sauron. If we kill Celebrimbor, the three powerful elven rings won't get made, and thus Lothlorien and Rivendell will be diminished. And also, don't forget that Gandalf took one of the rings, a ring to help support him in his weariness and help him kindle people's hearts, and without that ring he probably would not have been successful.
Celebrimbor's involvement in the Ring incident was a plus, not a minus.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

+ + Celebrimbor

He's just too smug. Shall we say
a rather pronounced Noldor trait?

[The Saucepan Man]

You all fell for it, didn't you...Not really. Formy's transparent efforts notwithstanding, I was quite glad of the chance to be rid of the vain, bossy, overbearing old wench. :p ;)

My guess is that Formendacil is hoping for a Celebrimbor win. So I suggest that we pool our efforts to frustrate his hopes. :D

+ + CELEBRIMBOR

For reasons amply stated previously. Ring craftsmanship is all very well and good in its place. But it proved a disaster when he tried his hand at it before. And it is of no use whatsoever on the Island.

Plus, there is still the shame of his body being used as a standard by Sauron's Armies.

If we kill Celebrimbor, the three powerful elven rings won't get made, and thus Lothlorien and Rivendell will be diminished.As I believe that I said earlier, although it seems that I too need to repeat myself, Celebrimbor's efforts directly contributed towards the making of the One Ring. Had I been around in the Third Age, I think that I would have gladly taken a diminished Lothlorien and Rivendell in return for no One Ring.

[Eonwe]

And why is that SpM? I don't really see that Suaron gained all that much by his Ring. Ringwraiths, sure. But if he didn't have them, he would have found someone just as worthy of being his second in command. His control over the Dwarves is, I guess, a bonus for the Ring, but the free world did just fine without them (or would have, if Isildur had been a wise man). The Three were used to greatly influence the world for good during the Watchful Peace.

Not to mention, if there had been no One Ring, Isildur never would have defeated Sauron, and Sam and Frodo never could have defeated him either. So.....

[The Saucepan Man]

Not to mention, if there had been no One Ring, Isildur never would have defeated Sauron, and Sam and Frodo never could have defeated him either. So.....Actually, without the One Ring, Sauron would never have been able to resume physical form following his flight from Numenor drowned.

Yes, that Celebrimbor's certainly got a lot to answer for ...

[Mithalwen]

However no One ring is not the same as no Sauron. If Sauron hadn't concentrated so much of his power in a easily portable device which was also easily losable preventing him from exercising fully it for large chunks of time, things could have been a lot worse. Actually I have some sympathy with Sauron on that aspect - it seemed such a good idea to keep stuff on a data stick rather than an A5 filofax apart from the data stick being so easily mislaid in comparison to the slab of a book.

So Celebrimbor's gimmick was probably a good thing and it led to the creation of Imladris which is definitely a good thing.

Leave Celebrian alone - doesn't she have enough to cope with? She was not a queen by marriage - she wasn't a queen at all save in name but as Galadriel's daughter she was hardly the beggar bride. And it is rather nasty to blame the victim for the assault..... she was only visiting her mum like a good daughter :rolleyes: And it must be a bit tough to be the daughter and mother of apparently the two most beautiful elf women and never get a mention.... it rather implies the looks skipped a generation and she looked like her pa. My only caveat would be the way her boys turned out. They really should have got over the dressing the sameway thing several millenia before the WotR and the way that chieftains of the Dunedain came to premature deaths in their company I find a little worrying. I just think of the Kray twins ..bloodthirsty and devoted to their Ma..... :eek:

Anarion is just a non-entity really.

++Anarion

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Mithalwen makes a good point about
Sauron having more power without the ring's
creation, but then, it was his idea both to
encourage the ringmaking and make his own
One Ring to...yadda, yadda, yadda.

[Formendacil]

My guess is that Formendacil is hoping for a Celebrimbor win. So I suggest that we pool our efforts to frustrate his hopes. :D

What? A Fëanorian!! Do you take me for Anguirel? (You wouldn't be the first... right, dear sis?)

Nay, I rather have a fancy for the beautiful Tar-Míriel...

[Diamond18]

Nay, I rather have a fancy for the beautiful Tar-Míriel...

Trying to get us to bandwagon against her, eh, Form? :p

[the phantom]

The whole Ring thing would've happened with or without Celebrimbor, and he had no part in the One Ring's creation, thus no blame can be placed on him. The only thing he added to the situation was a higher quality of elven rings, which was certainly a large asset to the free peoples of Middle Earth during the Third Age. Without Narya aiding Gandalf in the kindling of hearts and moving them to great deeds, Sauron would not have been defeated. And let's not forget Celebrimbor's refusal to reveal the location of the elven rings, despite much torture.

Celebrimbor had the largest impact on Arda of any of the remaining contestants. To vote him off before them would be sheer idiocy. Of course, that probably doesn't matter, for many of the posters on this thread have shown a willingness, if not eager desire, to prove their ignorance. I fully expect Celebrimbor to bite the dust.

Oh well. At least Galadriel didn't win. I'm pretty happy about that. Nice job, Formy. I suspected your prediction was meant to get rid of her, and so I wisely kept silent and let things take their course.

[Formendacil]

Trying to get us to bandwagon against her, eh, Form? :p

Not this time...

Maybe I'm trying to make it look like I want her voted off in hopes that people will leave her on, because I actually DO favour a Tar-Míriel win.

Oh well. At least Galadriel didn't win. I'm pretty happy about that. Nice job, Formy. I suspected your prediction was meant to get rid of her, and so I wisely kept silent and let things take their course.

Sometimes the simplest plans are the best...

[The Saucepan Man]

The whole Ring thing would've happened with or without Celebrimbor, and he had no part in the One Ring's creation, thus no blame can be placed on him.Wrong again, my dear phantom. No doubt your misunderstanding is attributable to Feanorophile induced short-sightedness, but you really must stop looking at the matter through those Noldor-tinted spectacles. :p ;)

Sauron conceived the plan to create the One Ring, yes. He forged the thing himself, yes. But the whole scheme relied upon the Gwaith-i-Mírdain falling for his Annatar guise sufficiently that they listened to what he had to teach them about ringcraft. Had their vanity and greed for knowledge not led them to do so, then they would not have learned how to make such nice little trinkets. Without the Elven Rings being made, there was little point in Sauron going through with his plan and so he would not have bothered putting all his eggs into the One Ring basket.

So, but for Celebrimbor and his pals falling for Sauron's little trick (as a direct result of their own failings), there would have been no One Ring.

Oh, and if you think the Elven Rings so great, you have Sauron to thank for that. It was his teachings that enabled Celebrimbor to craft them. Without Sauron's help, he would never have had the skill to make them himself.

However no One ring is not the same as no Sauron.In some ways it is. But for the One Ring, Sauron could have been defeated through one concerted effort. It was the Ring that anchored him to Arda and allowed him to return every time that he was physically overcome.

And the Ring wasn't such a bad scheme, by the way. He would have gotten away with it too if it hadn't been for that pesky hand of Eru ... :D

[the phantom]

No doubt your misunderstanding is attributable to Feanorophile induced short-sightedness
Feanorophile I may be, but in this case she has nothing to do with my opinion. Fea hasn't even posted on this thread in quite some time. In addition, I... oh... you mean the other Feanor.

In that case, then yes, yes, I am biased and I do indeed like Celebrimbor more than I should simply because of who his grandfather was. I readily admit that. But that doesn't mean I'm not speaking truth.
But the whole scheme relied upon the Gwaith-i-Mírdain falling for his Annatar guise sufficiently that they listened to what he had to teach them about ringcraft.
Yes, and your point? If Celebrimbor wasn't there, all those other smiths would still be there, and so nothing would have changed. Annatar would've tutored them just as he did and they would've made rings, only not as good as the ones Celebrimbor made. Also, without his expertise and sensitivity to the rings the elves likely would not have been aware of Sauron's plot until it was too late. But the way it turned out, Celebrimbor perceived Sauron's designs in the nick of time and sent the three great rings away to be hidden and not used while Sauron possesed the master ring.

So, I believe I have proved once again that Celebrimbor's role in the whole ring affair yielded extremely positive results.
Without the Elven Rings being made, there was little point in Sauron going through with his plan
Yes, there was little point in going through with his Ring plan, err... except for the little bit about the Ring making him indestructable. But of course, that's a minor point. Rendering yourself immune to destruction isn't worth anything at all, is it? No way. Of course not. The Ring was only useful as a device to control the Elven rings. Sure. :rolleyes:

[The Saucepan Man]

But the way it turned out, Celebrimbor perceived Sauron's designs in the nick of time and sent the three great rings away to be hidden and not used while Sauron possesed the master ring.His one saving grace. But it was hardly a positive - more like trying to make (partial) amends for his original idiocy. It does not undo his own contribution to the creation of the One Ring.

Yes, there was little point in going through with his Ring plan, err... except for the little bit about the Ring making him indestructable.Sauron conceived the whole One Ring scheme in an effort to gain control of Middle-earth and enslave its peoples. The creation of the (other) Rings of Power were an intrinsic part of that scheme.

Possibly, had Celebrimbor not allowed Sauron to do him up like a kipper, Sauron would have gone ahead and tried to make a Ring, or something similar, anyway. But that is a hypothetical, and we cannot be sure what the consequences may have been. Perhaps, without the unwitting collaberation of the Mirdain, it would have failed, or been an inferior model. We just don't know. But what we do know is that Celebrimbor's foolish pride directly contributed to the creation of the One Ring.

[Lhunardawen]

What? A Fëanorian!! Do you take me for Anguirel? (You wouldn't be the first... right, dear sis?) *looks around innocently*


Nay, I rather have a fancy for the beautiful Tar-Míriel...I would have voted against her to irk you, but I like her too...

++CELEBRIAN

*sigh*

[The 1,000 Reader]

I actually DO favour a Tar-Míriel win.



Whoa dude, slow down. Now, I know that it's been hard for you that Galadriel left and you've been drinking the pain away and you see no other solution, but going after another girl will just make things worse.


Trust me. ;)

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I didn't fall for your obvious trick, Form, it was a matter of strategy.

For Tar-Míriel to have a chance of winning, I must help eliminate the actual heroes of the Second Age. Love is blind--well, perhaps extremely biased. ;)

Oooh, some spider's gonna give it to you.

No, dancing spawn, I'll explain. In a PM.

Oh, and my vote:

++Celebrimbor

For falling for the most pathetic world takeover attempt in the history of everything--again, no offence to Tolkien for writing it that way.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

So has a plague wiped out all
the Survivors?

[Diamond18]

I think Form has asperations for this Day to last a week, Tuor. :p

[Formendacil]

I think Form has asperations for this Day to last a week, Tuor. :p

Not quite... I've just been forgetful, that's all.

Well, I also hoped for a FEW more votes at such a late- and supposed to be dramatic- point in the game, but I guess that's too much to hope for.

ToDay ends NOW. The official post will be up soon...

[Formendacil]

Day Twenty-five ended in a tie. Due to certain rules about Day 26 and the Last needing three people (at least according to established traditon), the Moderator had to provide a tie-breaker.

++ Anárion

For being the least controversial candidate left. I want some fire at the end of the race!

(And yes, that is not Tolkien-based reasoning. I'm the Moderator. And I'm not requiring it today.)

The voting fell as follows:

Celebrían: II

Celebrimbor: IIIII

Anárion: IIIII I

Those Remaining:
Celebrían
Celebrimbor
Tar-Míriel

Day 26 now begins, and I advise ypu all to read the following:

RULES FOR THE LAST DAY:

On this, the last day, each voter is asked to vote for the candidates they want to WIN, not to see voted off. Retractable votes will remain acceptable. Tolkien-based rationale will be required for votes to stand.

You may now begin voting.

[Eonwe]

++Celebrimbor

In keeping with the spirit of the Second Age, that being redress of the wrongs of the First, and the uniting of the free realms in peace, Celebrimbor shows himself worthy of the crown of this competition.

Firstly, he turns from the corrupted path of his father and uncles, attmepting to maintain harmony with neighboring realms. Second, he starts the ambicious progect of forging the Three Rings of Power, which were instrumental in the founding of Rivendell, and Lothlorien, both crutial kingdoms by the time of the War of the Ring.

[The 1,000 Reader]

++Celebrimbor.


Celebrimbor is the only accomplished survivor left. He tried to make peace through actual peace, not war, and the three elven rings did more harm than good to Sauron.


The others have not done anything worthy to have gotten this far. Celebrimbor has created the elven rings, tools which helped save the Third Age, as well as the ages to come.

[Firefoot]

Are you saying that Tar-Miriel did nothing? She was put in a bad spot, forced into a marriage against her will to a man who would usurp all the power. It would have been easy for her to give in, but she remained loyal to the Faithful, and would have undoubtedly helped them out quite a bit (she was certainly in some sort of position to do so, even if she would have had to act in secret). But she herself was not able to be saved from the drowning of Numenor - how could she? the Queen could hardly just go missing, and their doings all had to be done in secret. So instead she drowned ascending the heights of Meneltarma. For her bravery, Tar-Miriel is my vote for Survivor.

++Tar-Miriel

Besides, it's about time a woman won one of these, and she's entirely more worthy than Celebrian, who, quite honestly, did very little.

[The 1,000 Reader]

Yes, but Tar-Mirel also did very little. Celebrimbor has done the most and is the most accomplished, so he deserves to win.

[Diamond18]

I've yet to grasp the concept of arguing with each other over our picks (though I'll bet Form enjoys it :p ) because I've yet to see anyone swayed into changing his/her mind.

I must save my vote till later, because I have to come up with something all nicely thought out and Tolkieny in order for it to count. But I'm going to vote for Tar-Miriel. :D

[Formendacil]

I've yet to grasp the concept of arguing with each other over our picks (though I'll bet Form enjoys it :p ) because I've yet to see anyone swayed into changing his/her mind :D

Oh, you bet I enjoy it!

Mind you, I also enjoyed DOING it in past games (more notably Boromir's and Glirdan's, since Anguirel's more exotic format disagreed with my stomach..). There's something incredibly fun about taking a position, and holding to it as though it were the gospel truth.

It's also fun to blow holes in people's arguments.

[Firefoot]

Yes, but Tar-Mirel also did very little. Celebrimbor has done the most and is the most accomplished, so he deserves to win. But Celebrimbor also made a lot more mistakes...

[the phantom]

She was put in a bad spot, forced into a marriage against her will to a man who would usurp all the power.
So, that makes her worthy of winning? :rolleyes:
But she herself was not able to be saved from the drowning of Numenor - how could she? the Queen could hardly just go missing, and their doings all had to be done in secret.
Yeah right. If Tar-Miriel would've been around the Faithful a bit and helped them or at least been in contact with them, there is no doubt that Elendil and his sons would have had a plan to rescue their Queen after Ar-Phar left. Isildur rescued the Tree, didn't he? Then how much more likely would he have been to rescue the heir of the line of Elros that the Tree represented?
It would have been easy for her to give in, but she remained loyal to the Faithful, and would have undoubtedly helped them out quite a bit (she was certainly in some sort of position to do so, even if she would have had to act in secret).
She "undoubtedly" helped the Faithful quite a bit? That's quite a leap of faith you are taking. The Queen disobeying her husband and aiding his enemies is a big deal, especially in this instance. There are tales about the actions of Amandil, Elendil, Isildur, and Anarion before leaving Numenor, tales that tell of their preperations and brave deeds. I don't recall the queen being mentioned.

If Tar-Miriel would've done something it would've been written. Why don't you find something she actually did and then vote for her (that is if you can find something she did worthy of making her Survivor champ). You can't vote for someone based on a guess that they did something brave simply because you want a female to win. That is quite obviously sexist.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

A provisional vote for
+ + Celebrian
She was actually rather adventurous, including
journeying over a rather run-down Redhorn Gate
to visit mom and dad, and she did survive orc poisoning
and ill treatment. Plus her experience with nassty
orcsees had a lot to do with her sons having
a thing for terminating orcs with extreme prejudice .
Oh yeah, and her seamstress daughter made a good
trophy wife.

[Celuien]

++CELEBRIMBOR

For being the only contestant remaining to have actually done something important. The Three Rings were important for the preservation of Rivendell and Lorien, and aiding Gandalf's efforts.

[The Saucepan Man]

Celebrimbor most certainly should not win, for the reasons that I have stated muerous times previously. He managed to get Middle-earth into a terrible mess, almost single-handedly, which others had to sort out, at great cost to themselves, later.

I rather prefer the idea of Celebrian as victor. It must have taken a lot of guts to resist simply succumbing to the torments of the Orcs that had captured her and relinquish her hroar then and there. I reckon that it was her love for her husband and children, and her wish to see them again, which kept her going, and that speaks loudly in her favour as far as I am concerned. Let's not underestimate the courage that is required to survive captivity in such terrible conditions. It is clear that she suffered terribly from the fact that even Elrond was unable, ultimately, fully to heal her spirit.

And she gave birth to some pretty remarkable chidlren. Arwen, who is likened to none less than Luthien, and whose inspiration of Aragorn contributed to the salvation of Middle-earth. And Elladan and Elrohir, whose qualities as hunters and warriors are undoubted, and who also contributed greatly to the cause at the Pelennor and before the Black Gate.

So, for her courage in the face of horrendous circumstances, and for her contribution, through her children, to the salvation of Middle-earth and ultimate defeat of Sauron in the Third Age:

+ + CELEBRIAN

[the phantom]

I can't find fault in your pro-Celebrian vote, Sauce, so you can rest easy on that.

I do, however, take issue with your anti-Celebrimbor stance (as usual).
He managed to get Middle-earth into a terrible mess, almost single-handedly
A ridiculous statement, if I may say so.

The mess you are speaking of is the Ring mess, obviously. Now answer me this- since the Ring thing would have happened even without him, how can you possibly justify saying that he caused it?

CELEBRIMBOR DID NOT CAUSE THE RING INCIDENT!!!

SAURON DID!!!

The only way the Ring wouldn't have happened is if Sauron hadn't thought of it. Celebrimbor was not necessary to Sauron's Ring plot. The ONLY things Celebrimbor added to the situation was the crafting of three powerful rings that were a great help to the good guys as well as the sensitivity to perceive Sauron's plot just in time to stop it from succeeding.

Without Celebrimbor, the whole Ring affair would've been a far bigger plus for Sauron.

(the above is not opinion- it is FACT!)

[The 1,000 Reader]

But Celebrimbor also made a lot more mistakes...



Yes, and with his mistakes also came helpful things while with the mistakes of the others came only bad things.

On the subject of Celebrian, yes she liked to go on adventures, but seeing as how her most important adventure led her to the thing which ruined her, that isn't a good thing. Also, since orcs are sick little cretins they probably tried to keep her alive so that they could torture her until they got bored, meaning that she didn't live through her throat getting chopped every day. Finally, going into the west (giving up in a sense) doesn't make one a survivor. Tar-Mirel didn't really do anything than be a slave of sorts to Ar-Pharazon. Celebrimbor has done the most for the Second Age, as well as the following Third Age, which helped shape the Fourth Age.

Vote for Celebrimbor, hero of the ages.

(Phantom, if you're going to vote for Celebrimbor, I suggest you put your vote down in the voting tags so that For doesn't say anything to neglect your opinion.)

[The Saucepan Man]

I can't find fault in your pro-Celebrian vote, Sauce, so you can rest easy on that.Whew! I am relieved ... :rolleyes: :p

Now answer me this- since the Ring thing would have happened even without him, how can you possibly justify saying that he caused it?Did you even bother reading my earlier argumentation? The whole point of Sauron's Ring scheme was to gain control over the peoples of ME, especially the Elves. Had he not been able to persuade Celebrimbor and his team to create the other Rings of Power, it is unlikely that he would have gone through with it. And, even had he done so, it is likely that, without their involvement, the One Ring would have been less powerful than it was. Celebrimbor's pride, greed and gullibility was a direct contributor to the mess that prevailed at the end of the Third Age. One which, ultimately, required Eru's direct intervention to sort out.

Finally, going into the west (giving up in a sense) doesn't make one a survivor.Neither, then, does getting butchered as a result of one's pride, greed and gullibility and ending up on an Orcish battle standard ...

[Lalaith]

Who here among us has never had the temptation to rewrite history - just a little - in favour of those innocents that were wronged?

To have saved the noble Germanicus from poisoning, and the Roman empire from the raddled bag of depravities that was his brother Tiberius...

To have stolen into the Tower and smuggled out the two Little Princes...
...or rescued poor, clever, shy Lady Jane Grey from the block, and taken her back to the safe obscurity she craved...

...or to administer a TB jab to a certain young Londoner in the early 1800s, and thus add to the world's greatest poetry the splendour of a mature Keats....

Now we have here, on the Downs, the chance to right a great wrong. Tar-Miriel would, but for the machinations of Sauron and his lap-dog Ar-Pharazon, been a very great Queen, a wise and just ruler of Numenor. I say we crown her Queen of Survivor instead, and allow the viewers a small glimpse what might have been.
++TAR MIRIEL

[JennyHallu]

++Celebrian

So that grace and beauty shall not pass quickly from the world.

I have always had a fascination and reverence for Celebrian. She bore up under the greatest trials and triumphed. She kept herself alive until help came in a hopeless situation and through torture of the mind, body, and spirit, and that she left for healing afterwards cannot be faulted. My vote for her is because her story ends in triumph and reunion.

[Mithalwen]

++Celebrian Think of the consequences if she does not survive into the Third Age. She is a survivor and her largely untold story encapsulates so many aspects of the wider history of middle earth.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Nomen est omen, as the Romans used to say. Let's see:

Celebrimbor: "Silver-fist". Silver -> a second place -> not worthy of winning.

Celebrían: "Silver queen". See above.

Tar-Míriel: Tar = high lady, queen. Mîr, Míre = jewel. This dazzling woman is the jewel of the show. She might be a diamond in the rough, her brilliance dimmed by her ever so horrible husband, but she has got a lot of potential in her (and a personal name compared to the Celeb-something-club), so let us now give her a chance to shine.

I trust that a voting decision that is based on languages that were so dear to Tolkien is Middle-earthian enough... :p However, just in case:

++TAR-MÍRIEL

Because she would have deserved to be the fourth Ruling Queen of Númenor. Winning the Second Age Survivor may serve as a consolation prize.

[Lalaith]

the Celeb-something-club
Yeah. I'm sick of the whole Celeb culture. ;)

[Diamond18]

Tar-Míriel: Tar = high lady, queen. Mîr, Míre = jewel.

As one also possessing a jewel-like name, I must toss my hat in with the tragic Queen of Númenor. Re-writing history with unrepentant glee, we right the wrongs done unto not only her but the whole Isle of Númenor. Let this survivor's island be the new Isle of Númenor, with Tar-Miriel ruling as Queen, as is her right as the only heir of Tar-Palantir, last decent King of Númenor.

+ + Tar-Míriel

Or in other words, because I damn well please.

;)

[Diamond18]

Tar-Míriel: 4 votes
Celebrían: 4 votes
Celebrimbor: 3 votes

And since phantom hasn't officially voted but voiced a clear preference, one can almost say Celebrimbor has 4 votes. And you know what that means, boys and girls...

Three Way SMACKDOWN! I mean, er, three way tie.

[Firefoot]

If Tar-Miriel would've done something it would've been written. Because Tolkien always finished everything he wrote. :rolleyes: You can't vote for someone based on a guess that they did something brave simply because you want a female to win. That is quite obviously sexist. And you aren't biased at all. :rolleyes: Besides, I'm not inventing, I'm inferring. Blame it on RPG's, if you will.

[Diamond18]

You can't vote for someone based on a guess that they did something brave simply because you want a female to win. That is quite obviously sexist.And you aren't biased at all. :rolleyes: Besides, I'm not inventing, I'm inferring. Blame it on RPG's, if you will.

:D

And don't forget, we can and will vote however we want as long as its based in Tolkien one way or another. I think that inferring and imagining based on what Tolkien wrote falls under that header. ;)

[the phantom]

Three Way SMACKDOWN! I mean, er, three way tie.
Actually, I'd sort of like to see a tie. I wonder what Formy would do....

Should we find out?

Yeah. Let's see what he does with a tie.

+ + Celebrimbor

For previously stated reasons (making the three rings, getting them hidden before Sauron's plan could catch them, and refusing to reveal their whereabouts when tortured). And I also like the way he and those under his leadership forged such an excellent relationship with the dwarves of Moria. Isn't that nice? :)

[the phantom]

If Tar-Miriel would've done something it would've been written.
Because Tolkien always finished everything he wrote. :rolleyes:
Oh, please. I'm well aware he didn't finish everything, but he certainly managed the major details of stories he wrote. For instance, he didn't leave the whole bit about Turin slaying Glaurung out of the Turin story and think "Oh, I'll get to it later". He took care of the main characters and deeds.

Now, Queen Tar-Miriel aiding the Faithful and doing brave deeds behind Ar-Phar's back- that is a major character doing a major deed, and thus it would not have been left out of the story if it had happened.
You can't vote for someone based on a guess that they did something brave simply because you want a female to win. That is quite obviously sexist.
And you aren't biased at all. :rolleyes:
No, I'm not. Picking a Survivor Champion based on qualifications is no more biased than hiring someone because they are the most qualified. On the other hand, hiring someone who isn't the most qualified because they are male/female/white/black is biased, as is voting for a less qualified Survivor Champion.

This isn't just a game- this is a test of ethics that will have a massive bearing on the rest of your life. Sure, it sounds like a simple thing to pick a bad candidate today, but next thing you know you'll beating up little old ladies and stealing lunch money from children.

Stop, before it's too late!

[Diamond18]

next thing you know you'll beating up little old ladies and stealing lunch money from children.

Add auto theft and speeding to that and I think we have the makings of a right good time!

Seriously though, would you be comparing Celebrimbor to old ladies and children, then? *looks innocent*

[the phantom]

would you be comparing Celebrimbor to old ladies and children, then?
The comparison might fit, in the sense that, like little old ladies and children, Celebrimbor is being wronged and is unable to defend himself (by virtue of the fact that he does not exist).

So that further explains my point. Today, you are wronging a defenseless fictional character- tomorrow, real life defenseless people. It's a slippery slope.

[Diamond18]

The comparison might fit, in the sense that, like little old ladies and children, Celebrimbor is being wronged and is unable to defend himself (by virtue of the fact that he does not exist).

And the same can be said for Tar-Miriel and Celebrian, depending on one's viewpoint. They're all fictional and, frankly, none of them are the most deeply drawn characters, so most of what we think of them comes from our own preconceived notions about what makes a preferable Survivor champ. It's all about what tinted glasses you're wearing. None of this is concrete, like little old ladies and children, it's all subjective conjecture and imagination. Personally I am not voting for Celebrimbor because he leaves the least to the imagination. That's my prefered shade of glasses: that the character who I can best make up my own pleasant fantasy about gets my vote. Such is the world of fiction and games compared to the real one. ;)

[The 1,000 Reader]

The comparison might fit, in the sense that, like little old ladies and children, Celebrimbor is being wronged and is unable to defend himself (by virtue of the fact that he does not exist)


Just like what happened to the Witch-King a few pages back. Oh well, at least it's an accomplishment that he got to the finals when he didn't even do anything in the Second Age.



To put my words into orcish form, "What's wrong with you people?! You're voting for two girls that was pretty much a slave and had the **** beaten out of 'er? Vote for the elf lord who made the three rings! At least he did something."

[Lhunardawen]

Actually, I'd sort of like to see a tie. I wonder what Formy would do....I'll take a stab at it. He'll do like this:

++TAR-MÍRIEL

and say that it's his thread. :p

Okay, okay...he'll do only the first part.

But why Tar-Miríel? Because Celebrían, respectable though she is, is not exactly a Survivor in a sense. Not that we can blame her for giving up on life, but we have a game to consider.

Celebrimbor, while deserving credit for the creation of the rings, was in some way just following the footsteps of his grandfather: he created something grand, then died because of it. Mind that I don't have anything against Feanor...or maybe I do. :p

NO ONE else in Middle-earth history had a life similar to our dear tragic queen's. And she died holding on (quite literally) to what she believed in. Beat that!

Yess we could, preciouss.

I know, Gollum, but you're NOT Second Age. Now scram!

[Formendacil]

Actually, the FIRST thing he'll do is declare voting over.

He will then leave the thread to percolate until tomorrow afternoon, when he will have time to properly analyse the Tolkienity of the votes.

Although the voting is CLOSED, and no further votes will be counted, I should mention that I haven't decided yet how to deal with the tie...

Meanwhile, you may return to your discussions of "what Formendacil will do?"

[Lhunardawen]

I maintain my stand and rest my case. :p

Besides, as I see it, there's no tie for you to deal with.

[Formendacil]

I maintain my stand and rest my case. :p

Besides, as I see it, there's no tie for you to deal with.

Ssshhh!!!

Don't give the game away, little sister...

Be back tomorrow with the official analysis. I hope all your votes were Tolkien-valid...

[Diamond18]

Oh you awful, awful, teasing man. :p

[Anguirel]

Lord. Truly the nick of time. At dawn, look to the east.

Curufin was brilliant because he defied his lovey-dovey simpering culture of nobility and heroism to become a treacherous fiend.

But Celebrimbor went one better. In a society dminated by Curufin's treacherous fiendishness, he also proved a rebel and reverted to old noble codes of honour.

I don't know if any of you have read Philosopher at Large's internet Luthien script, filled with Shakespeare and Beowulf and goodness? Celebrimbor is tremendous in it...

If we believe in the Galadriel/Feanor failed romance, it's one of the most tragic and brilliant in Tolkien.

The Sons of Feanor are wonderful because they are paradigms of talented, charismatic, valiant princes going horribly wrong. Celebrimbor shows us what they could have achieved.

But he too is Under the Curse.

For Feanor's line!

++CELEBRIMBOR

[Diamond18]

Um, Ang...? Nearly an hour after Form declared voting closed is not what one would call in the nick of time. Nor even fashionably late.... :o

[Anguirel]

Oh, blast. Well, at least my feelings on the matter are recorded...

[Diamond18]

Perhaps if you said you started writing it an hour ago he would reconsider?

Not that I'd ever advocate being duplicitous.

[Formendacil]

Okay, the official tally. Here we are:

++Celebrimbor

In keeping with the spirit of the Second Age, that being redress of the wrongs of the First, and the uniting of the free realms in peace, Celebrimbor shows himself worthy of the crown of this competition.

Firstly, he turns from the corrupted path of his father and uncles, attmepting to maintain harmony with neighboring realms. Second, he starts the ambicious progect of forging the Three Rings of Power, which were instrumental in the founding of Rivendell, and Lothlorien, both crutial kingdoms by the time of the War of the Ring.

COUNTED- for reference to Celebrimbor’s break with his father, and his creation of the Elven Rings of Power.

++Celebrimbor.

Celebrimbor is the only accomplished survivor left. He tried to make peace through actual peace, not war, and the three elven rings did more harm than good to Sauron.

The others have not done anything worthy to have gotten this far. Celebrimbor has created the elven rings, tools which helped save the Third Age, as well as the ages to come.

COUNTED- for reference to the Elven Rings and their effect on the Third Age.

Are you saying that Tar-Miriel did nothing? She was put in a bad spot, forced into a marriage against her will to a man who would usurp all the power. It would have been easy for her to give in, but she remained loyal to the Faithful, and would have undoubtedly helped them out quite a bit (she was certainly in some sort of position to do so, even if she would have had to act in secret). But she herself was not able to be saved from the drowning of Numenor - how could she? the Queen could hardly just go missing, and their doings all had to be done in secret. So instead she drowned ascending the heights of Meneltarma. For her bravery, Tar-Miriel is my vote for Survivor.

++Tar-Miriel

COUNTED- for reference, amongst other speculation, to Tar-Míriel’s final ascent of Meneltarma.

++ Celebrian
She was actually rather adventurous, including journeying over a rather run-down Redhorn Gate to visit mom and dad, and she did survive orc poisoning and ill treatment. Plus her experience with nasty orcsees had a lot to do with her sons having a thing for terminating orcs with extreme prejudice . Oh yeah, and her seamstress daughter made a good trophy wife.

COUNTED- for reference to Celebrían’s trips over the Redhorn pass.

++CELEBRIMBOR

For being the only contestant remaining to have actually done something important. The Three Rings were important for the preservation of Rivendell and Lorien, and aiding Gandalf's efforts.

COUNTED- Again, for reference to the creation of the Three Elven Rings, and the resulting effect in the Third Age.

I rather prefer the idea of Celebrian as victor. It must have taken a lot of guts to resist simply succumbing to the torments of the Orcs that had captured her and relinquish her hroar then and there. I reckon that it was her love for her husband and children, and her wish to see them again, which kept her going, and that speaks loudly in her favour as far as I am concerned. Let's not underestimate the courage that is required to survive captivity in such terrible conditions. It is clear that she suffered terribly from the fact that even Elrond was unable, ultimately, fully to heal her spirit.

And she gave birth to some pretty remarkable chidlren. Arwen, who is likened to none less than Luthien, and whose inspiration of Aragorn contributed to the salvation of Middle-earth. And Elladan and Elrohir, whose qualities as hunters and warriors are undoubted, and who also contributed greatly to the cause at the Pelennor and before the Black Gate.

So, for her courage in the face of horrendous circumstances, and for her contribution, through her children, to the salvation of Middle-earth and ultimate defeat of Sauron in the Third Age:

++ CELEBRIAN

COUNTED- For recitation of Celebrían’s general history and the inferred personality she bore.

Who here among us has never had the temptation to rewrite history - just a little - in favour of those innocents that were wronged?

To have saved the noble Germanicus from poisoning, and the Roman empire from the raddled bag of depravities that was his brother Tiberius...

To have stolen into the Tower and smuggled out the two Little Princes...
...or rescued poor, clever, shy Lady Jane Grey from the block, and taken her back to the safe obscurity she craved...

...or to administer a TB jab to a certain young Londoner in the early 1800s, and thus add to the world's greatest poetry the splendour of a mature Keats....

Now we have here, on the Downs, the chance to right a great wrong. Tar-Miriel would, but for the machinations of Sauron and his lap-dog Ar-Pharazon, been a very great Queen, a wise and just ruler of Numenor. I say we crown her Queen of Survivor instead, and allow the viewers a small glimpse what might have been.
++TAR MIRIEL

COUNTED- for summation of Tar-Míriel’s history, and the desire to rewrite the history regarding her. (Formendacil, as a historaphile, is- by the way- very appreciate of this rewriting strategy, and may just plagiarize it in the future…)

++Celebrian

So that grace and beauty shall not pass quickly from the world.

I have always had a fascination and reverence for Celebrian. She bore up under the greatest trials and triumphed. She kept herself alive until help came in a hopeless situation and through torture of the mind, body, and spirit, and that she left for healing afterwards cannot be faulted. My vote for her is because her story ends in triumph and reunion.

COUNTED- For reference to Celebrían’s survival in face of orkish peril- and reference to Elrond’s reunion with her in Valinor.

++Celebrian Think of the consequences if she does not survive into the Third Age. She is a survivor and her largely untold story encapsulates so many aspects of the wider history of middle earth.

COUNTED- for noting the fact that Celebrían actually did survive a nasty situation.

Celebrimbor: "Silver-fist". Silver -> a second place -> not worthy of winning.

Celebrían: "Silver queen". See above.

Tar-Míriel: Tar = high lady, queen. Mîr, Míre = jewel. This dazzling woman is the jewel of the show. She might be a diamond in the rough, her brilliance dimmed by her ever so horrible husband, but she has got a lot of potential in her (and a personal name compared to the Celeb-something-club), so let us now give her a chance to shine.

I trust that a voting decision that is based on languages that were so dear to Tolkien is Middle-earthian enough... However, just in case:

++TAR-MÍRIEL

COUNTED- Languages and Tolkien go together like fish and chips. Oh, and there is an alternative reasoning, if one doesn’t like this.

As one also possessing a jewel-like name, I must toss my hat in with the tragic Queen of Númenor. Re-writing history with unrepentant glee, we right the wrongs done unto not only her but the whole Isle of Númenor. Let this survivor's island be the new Isle of Númenor, with Tar-Miriel ruling as Queen, as is her right as the only heir of Tar-Palantir, last decent King of Númenor.

++ Tar-Míriel

COUNTED- for reference to Tar-Míriel’s right to be queen, her tragic loss of that privalege, and her status as Tar-Palantír’s only child.

++ Celebrimbor

For previously stated reasons (making the three rings, getting them hidden before Sauron's plan could catch them, and refusing to reveal their whereabouts when tortured). And I also like the way he and those under his leadership forged such an excellent relationship with the dwarves of Moria. Isn't that nice?

COUNTED- For reference to Celebrimbor’s hiding the Rings ere Sauron could reach them, and for reference to his bravery in face of torture, and for reference to his exceptional relationship with the Dwarves.

++TAR-MÍRIEL

and say that it's his thread. :p

Okay, okay...he'll do only the first part.

But why Tar-Miríel? Because Celebrían, respectable though she is, is not exactly a Survivor in a sense. Not that we can blame her for giving up on life, but we have a game to consider.

Celebrimbor, while deserving credit for the creation of the rings, was in some way just following the footsteps of his grandfather: he created something grand, then died because of it. Mind that I don't have anything against Feanor...or maybe I do. :p

NO ONE else in Middle-earth history had a life similar to our dear tragic queen's. And she died holding on (quite literally) to what she believed in. Beat that!

COUNTED- for reference to Tar-Míriel’s death on Meneltarma. You were lucky, sis… Your vote almost didn’t have a Tolkien-based reference to deal with Tar-Míriel.

So there we have it. The tally is:

Celebrían: IIII
Celebrimbor: IIII

Tar-Míriel: IIIII

So close to a tie... so close. Of course, I'd have vote Tar-Míriel anyway. :D But that unnecessary dirtying of my hands has been avoided, and so it is with great pleasure (mwahahahaa: Moderator Win) that I crown Míriel, daughter of Palantír, Queen of Survivor: The Second Age.

GAME OVER

Those of you needing a Survivor fix are directed over to Diamond's Survivor: The Minor Works, Round 5 of Survivor: Middle-Earth.

~Michael A. Joosten - Survivor: The Second Age Moderator Emeritus~

[Formendacil]

POSTSCRIPT:

In the case of a tie for 2nd and 3rd Place, I hereby, as my last act as Survivor Moderator, declare Celebrimbor son of Curufin as 2nd Place Champion, in light of Anguirel's post-deadline vote for him.

~Finis~

[The 1,000 Reader]

Okay...the person who didn't do a single thing and was pushed around throughout her lifetime won simply because of far-fetched what-ifs and because she was touching a building when she died.

...................

....


"What's wrong with you people?!"

[Diamond18]

Why is no one else celebrating??

*cavorts around tossing candy and confetti in the air*

Or bemoaning for that matter?

*hands out sackcloth and ashes*

(X-posted with 1,000 Reader.)

[The 1,000 Reader]

Get yer' bombs boys, we're sinkin' this queen with er' isle again.

[Firefoot]

I'll celebrate with you, Diamond! :D

To tell the truth, Tar-Miriel is one of the ones I was hoping might win. Even though she is so minor, she has always been one of my favorite minor characters. I had not ever realized before this just how little was explicitly written about her. Guess that shows you what a little imagination can do. Sometimes it is nice that Tolkien leaves us little holes to fill in.

[The 1,000 Reader]

"With our research over, George Bush is a better writer than Shakespeare because there is a 3% chance that he was abducted by aliens and injected with writing-enhancing formulas."

Seriously, people shouldn't win because of far-fetched dreams that aren't in tune with the story they came from. "She died in a tower" doesn't really mean anything. Any other character would have gone to the tower if they couldn't reach a boat.

(As a sidenote, you might want to find a new island for the next survivor. Heh heh. ;))

[Diamond18]

Nobody likes an aggressively sore loser. It's annoying.

Also, your analogy holds no water since Shakespeare and George Bush are real people and Tar-Miriel et al are (say it with me everyone) fictional.

fic·tion n.

1.a. An imaginative creation or a pretense that does not represent actuality but has been invented.
1.b. The act of inventing such a creation or pretense.

2. A lie.

3.a. A literary work whose content is produced by the imagination and is not necessarily based on fact.
3.b. The category of literature comprising works of this kind, including novels and short stories.

Finally, saying that you're going to blow up the island because you didn't like the outcome of the game is childish. Or, to put it into another analogy, blowing up games you didn't win today leads to beating up grandmothers and stealing candy from children the next. It's a slippery slope. ;)

[The 1,000 Reader]

Nobody likes an aggressively sore loser. It's annoying.

Pardon me, but I just don't think that Tar-Mirel deserved to win when she didn't really do anything.

Also, your analogy holds no water since Shakespeare and George Bush are real people and Tar-Miriel et al are (say it with me everyone) fictional.

What I'm saying is that someone who hasn't shown any proof of their skill and has only shown the lack of it should not be chosen over one who has shown proof of their skill.

fic·tion n.

1.a. An imaginative creation or a pretense that does not represent actuality but has been invented.
1.b. The act of inventing such a creation or pretense.

2. A lie.

3.a. A literary work whose content is produced by the imagination and is not necessarily based on fact.
3.b. The category of literature comprising works of this kind, including novels and short stories.

Yes, but even fiction needs order and something to rely upon. If we go outside of canon then we are not being true to the fiction, potentially unraveling it. We should remain true to origins, not the stuff of fan-fics.

Finally, saying that you're going to blow up the island because you didn't like the outcome of the game is childish. Or, to put it into another analogy, blowing up games you didn't win today leads to beating up grandmothers and stealing candy from children the next. It's a slippery slope. ;)

This is Middle-Earth Mirth. "Childish" things belong here if anywhere. Besides, how would you like it if you worked your tail off to get a job and the person who didn't do anything got it instead? Finally, I fail to see how a post in a mirthful corner of the internet will suddenly drive me to attack innocent citizens. That's like the "Eeee! videogames are evil!" arguement, except using tetris as an example. To add onto that, I typed in "orc-fashion." If I was serious, I wouldn't go to that length.

Tar-Mirel won, yes, that happened, but that doesn't mean I can't answer in a silly fashion, just like when I first used "orc-talk" here.

Seriously though, you should get off that island. A fearsome looking hermit known only as "Robinson Crusoe" is rumored to turn into a large worm and grab people from underground. Others say he is a psychic snapping turtle without skin.

Run for your lives. He has already ensalved the wildlife and is using them for food. If legend is true, then he is the fearsome "Euro pean" said to bring a great plague to all life, as his kind did to the "N D ans."

[Diamond18]

It wasn't my intention to engage in a debate about the game results. There is little point since it is over, and the winner has been crowned, and there is no chance of changing the result. So since you keep belaboring the point I read it as the ranting of a sore loser rather than anything really mirthful. I meant "childish" in the "a child throwing a fit" sense rather than the more pleasant connotations of the word. Which somewhat brings out the stern librarian in me, hence why I bothered posting about it. :) As far as blowing up the island, you may wrestle the game away from all the others who have played it and turn it into your own private RPG, regardless of the vote counts, but really, where is the good taste in that?

The little old lady/children comment was a tongue-in-cheek reference to phantom's analogy, which I disagreed with, in case you misunderstood and took me seriously.

[The 1,000 Reader]

It wasn't my intention to engage in a debate about the game results. There is little point since it is over, and the winner has been crowned, and there is no chance of changing the result. So since you keep belaboring the point I read it as the ranting of a sore loser rather than anything really mirthful. I meant "childish" in the "a child throwing a fit" sense rather than the more pleasant connotations of the word. Which somewhat brings out the stern librarian in me, hence why I bothered posting about it. :) As far as blowing up the island, you may wrestle the game away from all the others who have played it and turn it into your own private RPG, regardless of the vote counts, but really, where is the good taste in that?

The little old lady/children comment was a tongue-in-cheek reference to phantom's analogy, which I disagreed with, in case you misunderstood and took me seriously.

Not a debate, just an opinion. I just think that she was undeserving so I'm expressing my opinion in a mirth-based way, just as you are "celebrating." As you are a "stern librarian" I am a "stern boss." I have no wish to make any sort of game from that comment, I was simply making a response. Finally, I knew very well that Phantom made that comment, I just simply felt the need to respond to that "dig."

Let's just end this discussion now to avoid flames and whatnot.

(That Crusoe guy also has a stick that shoots fire. Combined with his deadly "beer" he could enter a rampage at any moment and burn the forest. Run from the island before you fall to the "Euro pean.") :p

[Lalaith]

*Arrives clutching bottle of Bolly*

Oh, am I too late, did the party break up?
Tar Miriel was my fave from the start, I have to confess. Where is Nilp, btw? I would have expected him to be hanging out the bunting, for sure....

[Anguirel]

I am not wholly displeased by this result, though Celebrimbor and Celeborn, the two rivals, were my main candidates. By Form's mercy Celebrimbor is second, at least. And after my Smaug triumph I suppose I owe Lalaith a chance to revel in victory.

So all power to Tar-Miriel. Pull out the stopper, let's have a whopper. And appropriately enough

God Save The Queen

[Lalaith]

*hands Ang champagne flute*

Ah, thank you sir, most magnanimous of you, and welcome back. Sorry about helping to vote off Celeborn, but needs must, when milady Miriel was beset by eviction threats.

[Anguirel]

I have the satisfaction of knowing the anti-Celebornists were only able to take him down by cravenly waiting for my absence...another moral victory for Celeborn, just like LOTR...

Glug glug. Now to the Minor Works...

[Celuien]

Ah, well, I guess I can join the celebration. My preference would have been for Celeborn, Galadriel or Celebrimbor (in that order), but Tar-Miriel isn't so bad. I tried my best, but was outflanked by superior forces. :D

Pass that champagne over here, Ang. :cool:

[Diamond18]

I have the satisfaction of knowing the anti-Celebornists were only able to take him down by cravenly waiting for my absence...another moral victory for Celeborn, just like LOTR...

It was quite shameless of us, but thank you for going on vacation anyway. ;)

[Mithalwen]

Oh so Tar- who? won ... was this an ironic choice? Not my idea of a survivor......

*sulks* :p Tolkien didn't even think it was worth giving her a name of her own.....and her namesake is not exactly a fine example of resilience :rolleyes:

A silvery type person has to win something sometime......

[the phantom]

Okay...the person who didn't do a single thing and was pushed around throughout her lifetime won simply because of far-fetched what-ifs and because she was touching a building when she died.
Oh so Tar- who? won ... was this an ironic choice? Not my idea of a survivor......

*sulks* :p Tolkien didn't even think it was worth giving her a name of her own.....and her namesake is not exactly a fine example of resilience :rolleyes:
Surely the two of you aren't surprised by the outcome. I'm really not.

People tend to vote for who they identify with. An average person obviously identifies with average characters- characters who don't change the world and don't have an extraordinary amount of power and ability.

But naturally, no one likes to think of themselves as being "average", and this shows through in the way they treat their very average favorite characters. They attempt to build them up through speculation and pretend that they did great things that just weren't mentioned, just as they pretend that they themselves have done things of value.

And they also love to say that their character could've been great, if only etc etc, because that is what they would like to believe about themselves ("I could/would/should be great, if only....").

Heh. I can almost feel the icy glares of my opponents through my computer. My work here is done.

:p

[Lalaith]

*offers phantom glass of champagne...has second thoughts and proffers saucer of milk instead*

[the phantom]

*offers phantom glass of champagne...has second thoughts and proffers saucer of milk instead*
Ah yes, you definitely don't want me to have too much champagne. I might start hitting on Tar-Miriel.

Or you, perhaps.

[Formendacil]

Surely the two of you aren't surprised by the outcome. I'm really not.

People tend to vote for who they identify with. An average person obviously identifies with average characters- characters who don't change the world and don't have an extraordinary amount of power and ability.

But naturally, no one likes to think of themselves as being "average", and this shows through in the way they treat their very average favorite characters. They attempt to build them up through speculation and pretend that they did great things that just weren't mentioned, just as they pretend that they themselves have done things of value.

And they also love to say that their character could've been great, if only etc etc, because that is what they would like to believe about themselves ("I could/would/should be great, if only....").

Heh. I can almost feel the icy glares of my opponents through my computer. My work here is done.

:p

No icy glares here, sorry...

Just wondering how you're going to fit Smaug's victory in Survivor: The Hobbit into this theory.

[Diamond18]

Eh? Phantom's accusing others of having delusions of granduer? :eek: ;)

[the phantom]

Just wondering how you're going to fit Smaug's victory in Survivor: The Hobbit into this theory.
Well, what were the demographics of that game? Mostly male or female, oldies or newbies, mean or nice, etc? A different group of people is going to get you a different result.

In this game, an overabundance of members who feel threatened by people with superior talents and powers led to the crowning of a character without superior talents and powers.

See how that works? :p

"What do you mean, 'a character without superior talents and powers', Mister Phantom?!"

"Oh, Tar-Miriel, honey, I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about....er...Celebrian, who almost won."

"And why are you talking about her? Like blondes, do you?"

"Oh no, baby, I like the exact shade of hair yours is."

"Aw, you're so much sweeter than Ar-Pharazon."

"Of course I am. Now, let's go to my underground lair and celebrate your victory."

"Ooh, sounds like fun. Let's go."

Mwu ha ha ha!

[Diamond18]

I think he's gotten into the champagne. http://www.deephousepage.com/smilies/all_coholic.gif

[The 1,000 Reader]

Well, what were the demographics of that game? Mostly male or female, oldies or newbies, mean or nice, etc? A different group of people is going to get you a different result.

In this game, an overabundance of members who feel threatened by people with superior talents and powers led to the crowning of a character without superior talents and powers.

I deeply respect you now. You pretty much said everything I wanted to say.

(I don't think Tar-Mirel will take kindly to your "underground lair" where four midgets were nearly killed and your cousin Barry was slain by a magical forest hermit.)

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

*shrugs* Oh, well.

To borrow a phrase used by tp, Lal, and Boro: MWA HA HA HA HA!

I wished WW was this easy to play. The only threat we had came from the phantom's league, and the endgame was too much for them.

26. a8(Q)#

Pawn reaches eighth rank, queens, checkmate. Sorry, guys, but nice try. ;)

And I didn't even have to vote for the character I had declared I wanted to win ever since my first post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=449573&postcount=10). (Although I had wanted to, I have the end of classes to blame for that. :( )

Oh, victory is sweet, indeed. No champagne for me, thanks.

[the phantom]

To borrow a phrase used by tp, Lal, and Boro: MWA HA HA HA HA!
Hee hee... our finest moment. :D
The only threat we had came from the phantom's league, and the endgame was too much for them.
The League could have been called upon on the final day to ensure a landslide Celebrimbor victory, but I figured too many people would whine about it and so I chose not to bring the League into it.
I think he's gotten into the champagne.
What ever are you talking about?
*hic*
Whatcha doin' later, sweetie?

[Mithalwen]

Surely the two of you aren't surprised by the outcome. I'm really not.

:p

I didn't say I was surprised, I said I was sulking. So you can give me the champagne, and make sure it is chilled, better than Moet, and at least a magnum(rehoboam to nebuchadnezzar if I have to share. :p )You can keep the milk.... lactose intolerant....

[The 1,000 Reader]

*shrugs* Oh, well.

To borrow a phrase used by tp, Lal, and Boro: MWA HA HA HA HA!

I wished WW was this easy to play. The only threat we had came from the phantom's league, and the endgame was too much for them.

26. a8(Q)#

Pawn reaches eighth rank, queens, checkmate. Sorry, guys, but nice try. ;)

And I didn't even have to vote for the character I had declared I wanted to win ever since my first post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=449573&postcount=10). (Although I had wanted to, I have the end of classes to blame for that. :( )

Oh, victory is sweet, indeed. No champagne for me, thanks.

That crossed the line of mirth. Now you just seem like a jerk.

(You didn't call up the league...I just lost that respect for you Phantom. Weird people whining is better than them gloating and rubbing it in everyone's faces. You got into that wine before the game, didn't you?)

(P.S. Tar-Mirel ran away after seeing the smushed hand of your cousin Barry.)

[Diamond18]

What ever are you talking about?
*hic*
Whatcha doin' later, sweetie?

Sweetie? Sweetie?! I'll have you know, I'm Grunzilda (http://www.psy-strike.com/Diamond18.jpg), fearsome Chief Hag! See my stick? Fear its strange twisted growth!

Oh wait, that's off topic. Let's try this again.



What ever are you talking about?
*hic*
Whatcha doin' later, sweetie?

Funny you should ask, Hot Stuff; I'm moderating Minor Works Survivor, 'at's wot I'm doin'. As well as affecting a bad British accent. Frightening, isn't it?

[The 1,000 Reader]

Funny you should ask, Hot Stuff; I'm moderating Minor Works Suvivor, 'at's wot I'm doin'. As well as affecting a bad British accent. Frightening, isn't it?



That's more of swearing at grammar, actually.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

That crossed the line of mirth. Now you just seem like a jerk.*nods* I'll take that.

[Urwen]

All Hail Tar-miriel!!!!!*bows*:d