WWLXX: At the Prison of Ice [Archive] - Page 2 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Boromir88

12-01-2009, 11:19 PM

sally
#79 in character says she doesn't know if she'll be voting.
#82 explains further that she hopes she can vote but doesn't want us waiting on her for she may not be around.
#153 returns and asks for a vote count
#169 doesn't think wolf-Mnemo would vote on a coinflip. Hunch against Shasta. Roa seems too strange. Trusts Nog, wants to leave Mac for tomorrow. And in absolutely no bluntness about it, says I'm the horned and hoofed, trident-wielding overlord of the lake of fire...tell me how you really feel why don't ya? :rolleyes: Votes Roa.
#178 "ties=evil"
#179 questions the legality of Nog's vote
#182 *pulls out hair*

Trademark sally to leave funny quibs and comments after posting up until the DL. I've got nothing on her at the moment, because the only way I can figure her out is if she is in danger of getting lynched. I have (in my opinion) a very nifty "tell" that she will never be able to pry from my cold-dead hands as it's the only thing so far I've been pick up what her role is...:p

Greenie:
#62 lays down the law about the pointlessness of the debate involving moi. Vague good feelings towards Lommy, Brinn, me, and surprisingly Nog. Suspicious of Roa, Inzil, Morsul and Nerwen.
#63 responds to Morsul about voting records can be useful even if it doesn't have bandwaggoning wolves.
#109 the Nog vs. Roa, concludes that both have left her with a headache.
#118 A list
Innocent: Eomer, Brinn, Pitch, Mac, Lommy, and me.
Neither: Inzil, Lottie, Nienna, sally, Roa, Bes, Shasta, wilwa, and trom
Worrying: Mnemo, Morsul and Nog.
#122 disagrees with Eomer about list making
#124 ponders voting either Nog or Mnemo
#132 votes Mnemo as a "gut vote" over Nog
#134 responds to Nog about his implying "if you didn't see this, than you're not an ordo" comments.

Wow, so far, I've had to do the most bolding for Greenie's posts, she's definitely said something about everyone. I personally don't like lists, because I find that I wind up repeating myself, but agree with Greenie that there is merit to them and it's definitely better than banter/nothing. What I want to know Greenie is why did you vote for Mnemo one what you called mostly being a gut thing and not Nog?

Shasta:
#45 "here and reading"
#46 2 cents between mine and Roa's reasonability. Disagrees with me because the wolves like sally can get of scott-free by being totally irrational.
#47 remarks on DL and an in-character post
#68 calls Morsul's comment about votes "wishy-washy fence-sitting"
#117 "here and reading"
#137 Nog vs. Roa, I've made a note to go "re-read this."
#142 response to Nog over the "if A than B and if not A than you're not B" stuff
#143 further clarification of #142
#152 Shasta/Eomer spinoff show
#171 votes Inzil, with no reason at all nor am I aware of any previous suspicion stated about Inzil.

Shasta is on my list of possible wolves. I've noted to go back and re-read 137, as that's been his largest contribution from Day 1. It looked like a lot of work and effort, but also had a feeling that he was enjoying the fight, with the whole awarding points for/against system. From pre-Day 1 he had a nice amount of posts but unlike Greenie from above, I didn't have to do much bolding, as he barely mentioned anyone, for either suspects or innocent. Today he has, but I've only scanned most of the posts from today, and will have to go through more thoroughly. But based on yesterday, he's a wolf-suspect.

Nerwen
#16 in-character responses to Inzil and Lottie.
#34 doesn't want to get paranoid about lynching gifteds and questions me over what I'm trying to say
#56 responds to me
#67 tells Mac that at least one wolf would probably ignore me and says she can't see how she was "attacking" me.
#72 defends Roa's counting slip
#76 people don't pay close attention to things, especially if they're an ordo.
#87 defends herself against Nog for "attacking" me.
#89 says mountain building is popular
#141 "back and reading"
#181 votes on Mac for his "dodgy reasons"

I'm flip-flopping on Nerwen so badly. I didn't take her questions towards me as attacks, but the way she tries to downplay it as purely innocent questioning about me being unclear and pointing out the obvious, makes me nervous.

In #76 she defends Roa against Nog by saying people don't pay a lot of attention especially if they're ordos. It turns out Roa is an ordo, and could coincidental, this is a large group. However, today she's pointed out that we should read into all those who found merit in Nog's case against Roa, since we now know Roa is an ordo. The problem is she doesn't inquire any further, making it look like a red-herring "look here, go get distracted on this" plus, isn't Nerwen over-hyping the suspicion against Roa?

I admit that I considered Nog's reasons for pointing out Roa's mistake, because I knew what he was talking about and wondered the same, as well as Nienna pointing out in her first post there were 4 wolves...so I can see how Nog thought the slip looked intentional. However, that by itself was a really flimsy argument. I also recall many others saying the same thing about it. And I think Nog drew considerable suspicion by pointing out what he did, it just looks like Nerwen is trying to over-hype the amount of suspicion Roa had based on Nog "mountain building" the slip. In my opinion, most people seemed against voting Roa which was why she only got 2 votes.

And in #87:
Honestly, if any molehill's having a mountain made of it, it's this "everyone jumped on Boro!" meme.
I wondered about how quickly people started jumping off once Brinn, Mac, and Nog said they understood it.

I don't like this comment, by Nerwen though (that is to say I find it suspicious). The fact is, Roa wasn't the only one who got on me about it, she was just the loudest one. Inzil, Nerwen, Shasta, Morsul, Pitch, Eomer, and Bes all stated disagreement or suspected me because of it and Nerwen trying to downplay it worries me. It might not have been "everyone" but it was a rather large number of people. You also tried to downplay it by saying that it's possible a wolf would ignore it completely (would you call that obvious?) Then when people saw the point I was trying to make, and how my original response to Inzil got misrepresented people started jumping off one wagon and onto another...the "I don't like how everyone was jumping onto Boro wagon."

You can't tell me there isn't some screwy wolf involvement going on in that pile of people?

Ya, I realize that's a total flip-flop on Nerwen, but will wait for her response.

Edit: I crossed with who knows how many, my mind is fried after that

Macalaure

12-01-2009, 11:38 PM

A few quite... interesting... votes there.

A quick list to order my thoughts before I call it a day.

Innocent
Boro - quite certain of this by now
Shasta - gives me a very innocent feel (a pity Boro suspects him)

Tending innocent
Inzil - don't really see any reason to suspect him anymore
Eomer - is always a bit tricky to figure out, but no alarms so far
Morsul - mostly fine, sometimes hard to follow
Nerwen - has posted sensibly toDay
Green - don't see any reason to suspect her

Undecided
Brinn - has escaped my radar
Pitch - I'll try to figure him out tomorrow
Nienna - another one not on my radar at the moment
Trom - has trouble keeping up, which makes it difficult to figure him out
Lottie - Very confusing
Sally - can't get an idea yet
Lommy - made herself comfortable beneath my radar
Bes - don't know what to think of him yet
Wilwa - not enough data

Tending guilty
Mnemo - see above
Nogrod - see former comment

Guilty
-

Not certain of anybody's guilt yet, but a nice number of likely innocents still gives me a good feeling of being on the right way.

tromkehra

12-01-2009, 11:45 PM

Mac I be a girl :(

Bes

12-01-2009, 11:46 PM

Mac:
#18 In Character
#27 Making a summary, forming early suspicions about Inzil
#57 Doesn't believe Boro is a wolf, forms new 'maybe' suspicions about Pitch and maybe Nerwen.
#93 Responding to Morsul, Nerwen and Inzil.
--------#59 Morsul makes a point that if I'd been payying attention I would have concurred with.
----------------Mac responds sensibly that the statements would be similar, since it was so early, little evidence to go on.
----------------Suggests here that he felt negatively about Inzil and positively about Pitch. Odd, that's not what I read. I'm hardly in a position to call someone on detail consistency, though.
--------Mac goes on to say that Morsul's vote seems to come directly from "Disagreements about Nerwen and Boro"
----------------Morsul's reasoning in #69 IS kind of weak, but not so weak as to be dismissable I feel.
------------------------Mac's response is that if Boro continues his argument, he'd get lynched, so a wolf wouldn't risk it. The complete lack of votes on Day 1 for Boro seems to negate this dismissal of Morsul's reasoning.
--------Mac responds to Nerwen, nothin here catches my attention immediately.
--------Mac makes a good point about Inzil, but nothing truly damning. Again, early.
--------Mac affirms that Roa can't be suspected on flimsy evidence. We all know how that turned out, whee.
#112 Another list! Ceases to suspect Inzil, Nog is strange, Nerwen is forceful but not suspicious, Morsul looks good(?), Pitch is suspicious again.
Boro, Roa and Mnemo are innocent. An appearance of consistency, other than Pitch really.
Summary of people who haven't posted enough, people who haven't posted, and people who have good reasons to have not posted much.
#116 Has been tuning out Nog-Roa-Boro. What? You just went back and forth about it with Morsul, and talked openly about it in your last three posts.
Deflects attention onto Nog and posts #80 and #91. I'm not sure what to think about that.
#139 Now only even tentatively feels like Inzil, Nog or Lommy might be worth voting for. So, again reversing on Pitch, Inzil this time as well. Not happy with his options, but none of his options are explained.
#155 List of votes up to that point.
Points out that on Day1 it's not unusual to jump back and forth about suspicions in response to Inzil.
#159 Bandwagon, onoes! Does two count as a bandwagon? I don't think it does. Even with the speculation that Inzil would likely vote for him... It feels off to claim that this post is anything other than what it appears to be on the surface. Moving on!
#161 Inzil plz. No one new has voted for him yet. Or had much time to do so.
#167 Thanks to Nienna, who concurs with Mac. Which means I'll have to analyze her too now. Head hurts...
#172 Brief reply to Inzil, defending earlier reasoning in a previous response.
#175 Just a vote count
#177 Hesitant vote for Inzil.
#184 Lynched (almost)
#190 List time again! And we're finally back to today. Vote count, in order of votes complete with tally.
--------Suspects Pitch again, and it looks like also Mnemo, Me (understandable), Shasta and Nienna (what? Really? Ok then.), and maybe Nerwen.
#197 fun with Boro, Nog, and a book.
#217 Suspicious of Pitch and Mnemo for certain. Making me suspicious of Pitch, goodness. There's more here, but I'm trying to hurry up a bit now, it's 12:16 as I type and none of it stands out greatly.
#248 Explains why Morsul's vote for him was reasonable. Reply to Inzil, comments on how Boro defends Mac better than Mac does, refering to #231 where Boro makes some good points about interpretation of information.
Mac also blasts Nog's claim that he's been careful not to suspect too many people. I'd say that's half accurate, since it's more like he never suspects too many people in one sitting. And, to be fair, they have mostly been variations on Pitch, Inzil, and person X when appropriate. At the moment that's been upped to Inzil, Mnemo, Pitch, Sally, Lommy, Nerwen and myself.
There's more here, but if I don't move on soon then I might as well just quote the whole post.
#257 List/Analysis of Mnemo.

If I'd looked this closely on Day 1, I probably would have been equally as likely to consider Pitch or Nog for a vote as Mac, and/or not voted. That said, they're all on my watch list now, but I can't say who I think I'm going to vote for today. I'm probably going to have to reread the entire thread tomorrow, if I can manage it.

Probably crossed with several people. ... On the one hand this is all fun, but I think it might be a relief when it's all over, too. And we just got started. X_x

Mnemosyne

12-01-2009, 11:58 PM

It's Pitch time...

Pitch first started to rankle with the "We don't know if it's wolves" post. Roa's bringing this up definitely helped bring him to my attention.

Next, comments on Boro and Nog vs. Roa. Nothing really to disagree with here; I do appreciate his appreciation of Boro's pot-stirring.

Next, suggests that Mac's a hypocrite...

Looks at Nienna and Lottie and here's where something really looks fishy. Let's give them credit for trying to start up the game by restating the rules (which tends to look helpful without being helpful...)?

...while he himself was staying in character?

Pitch, you just gave me the first concrete evidence I've had all game. Which may mean nothing, mind, but still...

Looks at Morsul, nice wee defense which I'll accept.

Yesterday the short posts on various people really did nothing to help... breaking things up into information chunks like that seems to be more of a concern to spread quantity

Again, must look up and see how he normally plays...

Next, Lommy, Green, Brinn, and Eomer... He's pretty neutral on these.

Mild suspicion on Nerwen. Eh.

On Inziladun... Says that Inziladun's been quiet, which I don't quite agree with. Not that Inziladun was loud, either... just enthused as I said before.

Votes Mac using the standard Day One vibe reasoning. ^_^

at the same time I understand why people are saying it looks bandwaggonish. Not sure if I buy that or not.

Sensible response to Boro that could mean anything...

Apparently is still suspicious of Mac.

Again what originally set me off about Pitch was the kind of silly jumpiness that I attribute to Werewolf zeal (Generic YAY or YAY I'M A WOLF). But his spreading his thoughts on people out and putting them into short discrete chunks was seriously irritating. I need to check and see if that's his style or not... And plus the whole Nienna/Lottie thing was weird.

I can explain my suspicion of Inziladun yesterDay away to myself as an irrational distrust. I can't do that so much for Pitch (although I note that the exuberance was again a factor in my vibishness yesterday).

But in the meantime we've got additional weirdness... namely, Lottie's vote. She hadn't left my radar, but...

You can get away with not really explaining votes on Day One. Not Day One Day One, however... I just don't get it.

Brinniel

12-02-2009, 12:03 AM

So Roa dropped? What a shame; I was hoping to see more of the Nog & Roa show. :p But really, before I knew she dropped, I was starting to think it perhaps more likely that those two really were just two innocents at each other's throats. Nogrod can be a bold wolf, so I won't eliminate the possibility, but still it is rather risky to be going at it with an innocent with such force as early as Day One. If they are both innocent, the Roa vs. Nogrod was a great distraction for the wolves. With the events of yesterDay, our baddies could easily set him up for the next lynch target I think, which is why I would be rather uncomfortable to vote for him toDay.

Now, I may be wrong, but it seems to me that I would have said "whether there is a cobbler" rather than "whether we have a cobbler". Honest mistake, slip of the tongue?
Okay, now that really is a stretch. When I said "whether we have a cobbler," I meant "we" as in "the village." I really can't see what was wrong with what I said or why you'd consider it a 'slip.'

I don't exactly understand Loslote's vote for Lommy. She summarises a post of her's, yet fails to provide any of her own commentary.

Boromir88

12-02-2009, 12:16 AM

So I've read here and there mostly try and get a feel of what's going one. I just can't shake the feeling of Boro being a wolf. Mostly because he's so open about the fact of, 'this isn't the way Boro-wolf would act.' I know you're trying not to draw attention to yourself because that can cause potential lynching. Though from what I understand Boro's been doing this a while and could be trying to throw people off by going a completely opposite direction. Something in my gut just doesn't sit right.

Nog I feel is hiding something, nothing in the sense of wolf-mischief. Though something is a little hidden. Also seems that they wanted to make this big uprising against Roa only to have it stolen away. *Pat pat on shoulder.*

Since I wont have a chance to vote tomorrow I'll vote now.

++Boromir88

Good news is I feel pretty good about trom being innocent, despite her vote.

Here's the deal, I sort of have this reputation for being ruthless, slippery SOB...erm wolf. Shasta, I know can certainly fill you in about some down-right evil stories, but we can take a trip down memory lane another time. That's my reputation, people really don't like to trust me, eventhough everything is telling them that they can, because we never liked to get fooled.

I typically find myself spending an abnormal amount of time trying to get everyone to trust me when I'm innocent, and thus the openness. So is the way of the world though, and I'm not sure why I even do it, because it is an impossible thing.

Also, believe as a wolf I am more sly than directly pointing out "I'd do this as a wolf, and since I didn't, I'm not" trick, because I don't hand out my wolf-secrets. Mith, Lommy, Rikae (and apparently Mac now :rolleyes: ) to name a few have picked up on some of the unintentional signs, but there's nothing I hand out.

To refrain from a spiel, I'll leave it at this...I'm innocent. Believe it or not, that's your choice, and if and when I die are you willing to bet eating a toaster when my innocence is proven? :p

Nerwen

12-02-2009, 12:34 AM

I'm flip-flopping on Nerwen so badly. I didn't take her questions towards me as attacks, but the way she tries to downplay it as purely innocent questioning about me being unclear and pointing out the obvious, makes me nervous.

Boro, I was of course probing you a bit. However, it was just innocent questioning, and saying it wasn't an "attack"– as Mac described it– isn't "downplaying" anything.

However, today she's pointed out that we should read into all those who found merit in Nog's case against Roa, since we now know Roa is an ordo. The problem is she doesn't inquire any further, making it look like a red-herring "look here, go get distracted on this" plus, isn't Nerwen over-hyping the suspicion against Roa?

All I said was that the people who fell in with Nogrod's weird case on Roa– I think Eomer was one– are worth looking at. As I intend to, as soon as I have time, which I haven't yet. It's a valid, indeed an obvious, line of inquiry; whether it will lead anywhere is another matter.

IThe fact is, Roa wasn't the only one who got on me about it, she was just the loudest one. Inzil, Nerwen, Shasta, Morsul, Pitch, Eomer, and Bes all stated disagreement or suspected me because of it and Nerwen trying to downplay it worries me. It might not have been "everyone" but it was a rather large number of people. You also tried to downplay it by saying that it's possible a wolf would ignore it completely (would you call that obvious?) Then when people saw the point I was trying to make, and how my original response to Inzil got misrepresented people started jumping off one wagon and onto another...the "I don't like how everyone was jumping onto Boro wagon."

You can't tell me there isn't some screwy wolf involvement going on in that pile of people?

I'm not telling you that... however, the circumstance under which I made my "molehill" remark was that the first three people to question you (Me, Zil, Roa) were the ones coming under attack for it... Nogrod even had a theory of Roa and I being wolves together, based on the fact that a.) we both criticised you and b.) I defended her against his silly case. I maintain that was a serious overreaction. I'd made exactly two posts questioning you and both of them were perfectly reasonable. Look, Boro, it really wasn't clear what you meant.

Now, later there were people who just parrotted us, or even jumped straight to suspecting you– Bes and Morsul spring to mind. Even then, some of those you're listing just said, "meh, pointless topic". (Note: this is from memory, so don't shoot me if I've mixed up who did what.)

Okay... so... I'm not liking these points you're making against me here, Boro. They seem kind of twisty.

EDIT:X'd since Mnemo at #263.

Mnemosyne

12-02-2009, 01:11 AM

Okay, I've looked at Loslote, and things look bad for her. Summarize one person's post and then vote? Really?

At the same time, how wolvish is that?

At any rate she cannot defend herself for the rest of toDay so I'm willing to let her rest and then come down hard on her toMorrow.

Which means that I'm going for the one person I have a concrete, rational reason to suspect at all:

++Pitchwife

I will be available nearer the end of the day, but hopefully voting now will allow me to better focus on what's going on for the rest of the Day.

Again, people, don't vote at the last minute please... YesterDay looked pretty insane.

Finally, to Mac: If I were two-faced, would I be wearing this one? :Merisu:

Nerwen

12-02-2009, 01:41 AM

Okay, now I have looked at the people who followed Nog's case on Roa, and– surprise! surprise! One of them was Boro. :rolleyes:

But it looks so much like purpose slip, because I know what Nog is talking about and I double-checked the captain's notes even before your number slip. You gasp about wolves, and then for some reason give the number of them, but it's the wrong number.

I admit I scan the rules and am liable to miss things, but if someone can't get the number of wolves correct, or the roles that's either plain laziness to not read the captain's notes or someone's faking ignorance. And in this circumstance the number of wolves was stated in more than one place. You are anything but lazy in your analysis Roa, to state the wrong number of wolves, looks more than an innocent slip or failure in double checking.

And the other's Eomer:

Aye, Nogrod, soon as I saw Roa's counting-mistake I remarked: "intentional". Not sure what it means, though. I wouldn't be quick to lynch Roa because she brings a lot to the table in terms of discussion.

Neither of them pursued this, though. I had an impression that people jumped on the "case" much more than they actually did, I think because Nogrod was making so much noise about it.

The fact that Boro was one of them and apparently tried to discourage me from checking actually makes me feel somewhat better about him– because I don't think Borowolf would do anything as silly as that. Eomer has been rather slipping around the edge of things and just chiming in with people... but there's not really enough to go on with him yet.

A point in his favour is that he voted Mnemo, who is suddenly looking very sinister to me after her last post:

Okay, I've looked at Loslote, and things look bad for her. Summarize one person's post and then vote? Really?

At the same time, how wolvish is that?

So far, so good– but then we have this:

Which means that I'm going for the one person I have a concrete, rational reason to suspect at all:

++Pitchwife

What concrete, rational reason is that? In her "analysis" she gives only one real reason for suspecting him:

Looks at Nienna and Lottie and here's where something really looks fishy. Let's give them credit for trying to start up the game by restating the rules (which tends to look helpful without being helpful...)?

But what she's talking about is apparently this:

Nienna mentions wolves, which, however, are unlikely to be found in the Arctic Sea, miles from any land.

Miss Lottie, with all due respect, you seem to be confusing our serious emergency with one those online games your generation indulges in!

i.e. two very obvious ic jokes.

I mean– what?

Shastanis Althreduin

12-02-2009, 01:51 AM

Shasta, I know can certainly fill you in about some down-right evil stories, but we can take a trip down memory lane another time.

Well, I could mention Rangers and crossbows.... :rolleyes:

Brinn, yes, it was a bit of a stretch. However, it fit very nicely with the feelings I was having about your Nerwen-vote, so I added it anyway. :Merisu:

Mnemosyne

12-02-2009, 01:54 AM

I wasn't going to do this...

But this is going to eat at my head if I don't say it.

Reasons Mnemo does not trust players who remind her of her

I am more interested in having fun in a Werewolf game than living or dying.

I am more interested in having fun in a Werewolf game than winning or losing.

I enjoy having fun through banter, compulsively stalking the thread, and sometimes posting for the sake of posting.

I enjoy playing like this.

However, because I still want to win, I would rather not have too many players with these priorities on my side.

Therefore, I do not trust players like this in general.

I know myself. It's easier to project myself and my weaknesses as a player onto other people.

And the fact that the "having fun" bit comes so strongly so early in the game means that if people remind me of me during those first few posts, it's going to be a lasting first impression. So if I think, even on a subconscious level, that some of the players are going to have similar priorities to mine, I'm going to think that they might play like me and so wonder how sound their judgment is on individual players.

Which is really strike 2, as strike 1 for giddy players is that there's another perfectly reasonable explanation: "I'm excited because I'm a WULF this time!" (This also plays itself out when people say things like, "I think X!wolf would be spending more time on the thread than innocent!X)

Anyway, there you have it. I'm posting this because earlier some people (okay, two, but I was pretty high up on the lists yesterDay) found the conclusions I drew from these arguments (without presenting the arguments, which was somewhat dumb) suspicious. All fine and well. Just make sure you're suspecting me for the right reasons.

I'm not going to say anything more on this topic.

Tacking this on: Nerwen, Pitch was joking with people who were playing straight through the game, rationally, as if the confines of the game were still present. Nothing wrong with that, except maybe that it added to that dreadful zeal. But if later on he praises them for playing straight through the game, when at the time he himself was extending the banter... I'd just rather he'd put his money where his mouth was.

Yes, it's small, but it's what I've got at the moment. And now I really must be getting to bed: I have a test tomorrow and a very heavy heart.

...Is it bad that I almost want to get lynched just so that people will know I'm innocent?

Boromir88

12-02-2009, 01:59 AM

Boro seems to make sense and stand independently. I like that.

I don't know if I feel all that independent right now, more like all I'm feeling is my brain getting mashed by a sledgehammer. :rolleyes:

The dilemma is currently I feel that both you and Mac are looking innocent, and I've been getting more confident with that as this continues, but apparently both of you are highly suspicious of the other. For reasons that I'm not understanding. This makes me doubt my own judgement about one (or both of you) as if I'm missing something obviously suspicious. So far, I just feel like more than one wolf is laying low and enjoying, perhaps even antagonizing these situations where the talkers are going back and forth suspecting eachother.

I've been trying to place myself in a wolf-Nog and Mac-wolf shoes and since you haven't been acting like my conception of how your wolf-selves would act, I feel relatively confident to say your innocent.

Like with Mac, I know as a wolf before he has kept me a live when I've defended him before. But that time I was a lose canon and it would have been foolish for Macwolf to have killed me. I also know that I've lynched a Mac-wolf before and have been a major pain in his rear a few times. I know for a fact that Mith as a wolf tries to get rid of me almost as soon as she can...and right now I don't know if I've been that big of a pain to Mac yet. :p And right now, since Mac has seen that I'm not a "lose canon" if he was a wolf, I think he would have jumped at an early opportunity to get me under serious suspicion and not basically say I'm innocent.

And with Nogrod, I've also been a severe pain to him, but I also know Nog likes keeping me around for a few days, no matter how big of a pain I am, and no matter if he's a wolf or not. However, as a wolf I've noticed when I do suspect him he is very aggressive and ready to duke it out. I mean when we get after eachother, if I happen to win, I feel like I'm still leaving bloody and beaten up. :p

Still the fact that you two are suspecting eachother, and that I happen to lean towards trusting both of you at the moment, it's making me paranoid that my conceptions about both of you are horribly off. Ahh, I think I'll just deal with the paranoia for the time being, leave it at that, and focus on other things that aren't so "conspiracy theory" sounding.

Okay... so... I'm not liking these points you're making against me here, Boro. They seem kind of twisty.

It probably does, because it was one of those "heat of the moment" posts. I thought your questioning looked innocent, than when I looked at what I noted on Day 1, plus remembering some of things you've said today, I had a quick flip-flop which sent me into questioning everything else I thought. Then I just kind of stopped and left it at that, because I realized there was a major-flip in my thoughts about you.

Call it innocent probing, since I went through a big turn, I wanted to see your response and then decide whether I should seriously go all out suspect Nerwen or put you back into "innocent feeling." I can give my reasons and a proper response when I wake up tomorrow, but right now my mind is primarily on bed, though you are back into "leaning innocent."

Edit: crossed with Shasta and Mnemo.

Edit: Edit: and Nerwen too, didn't realize she made a recent post

A Little Green

12-02-2009, 03:59 AM

Hello! First off, I have loads of stuff to do today, but I'll be at home so I'll be able to check in every now and then. Then, off to comment stuff that's been said toDay.
But thinking her evil would mean basically that Mac is evil as well…Why?
Greenie I might think more innocentish than not as her reasoning for Mnemo looks more or less like my own... although I get the feeling she picks her instead of me because analysing me would be a too big a work!Hehe. :D No, I picked her instead of you because you were more confusing than suspicious. Or rather, I couldn't figure you out at all because your behaviour made no sense to me regardless of whether I assumed you were a wolf or not. Therefore, I went after Mnemo, who I felt suspicious about because she had been kind of calculatedly nice and gave me evil vibes. I wanted time to figure you out.
That's the kind of exuberance I expect from two kinds of people: 1). wolves, and 2). me.Even with the explanation, this quote (and the entire post) struck me as downright weird. I don't know what to make of it.
What I want to know Greenie is why did you vote for Mnemo one what you called mostly being a gut thing and not Nog?Did my answer to Nog answer you as well? If not, I'll elaborate.

I'd like to make a list but won't have time for it right now. I'll expect to do one still toDay. Just a quick update: I'm torn about Pitch, somewhat confused by Shasta, very confused by Lottie, and lean towards trusting both Nerwen and Boro (who seem to be at each other's throats :().

Thinlómien

12-02-2009, 06:17 AM

I'm writing a reply as I read, so forgive me if I repeat stuff people have said...

I'm currently finding Mac quite innocent, andf looking at his vote summary, Shasta and Nienna (ha!) seem slightly bad. YesterDay's voting was quite a mess, and to be honest, I have no idea what to make out of it, except that, like I said, I think Mac is innocent, and possibly Inzil too. That would make it slightly more probable that Mnemo is guilty, or then we are really unlucky.

I'm kind of grudging Legate for making this "humane decision" event. Because now we don't have any dead ie cleared people. And no wolf-kill tracks to follow (although this will be one of those painful games where the kills are more confusing due to the lack of a seer). So it's kind of good Roa had to leave (although that was sad :() because that means we have some information.

Nogrod's case on Roa is just absurdly over the top, it doesn't make any sense. I really wonder if that makes him a wolf. Because that would be the only reason I could see him doing that, "ooh I'll be so crazy and over-the-top that no one will believe I'm actually a wolf"...?

Mnemo is odd.

Can someone accuse me or get me otherwise very involved? Because I feel strangely "unattached" from this game, I'm reading it as if I wasn't playing it myself. Hmph.

I should add that Roa's departure puts paid to my theory that she and Nog were our gifteds staging an uprising. Phooey.Glad I wasn't the only one thinking that. :D

Nogrod has quite good points against Pitchie, but I still wonder about him too.

I'm not sure what to make of Lottie's vote for me. It is poorly reasoned, but not necessarily evil. She's not so much of a newbie anymore, though, so I would expect more depth from her. :p Well but really, she just summarises what I said, doesn't criticise it all or tell why it is suspicious and just votes me. *raises an eyebrow*

I'll be back and more involved later! I'll leave you with a list based on gut-feeling and all the points I've brought up this far:

Leaning innocent
Boro
Mac
Inzil
Greenie
Eomer

In the middle
Bes
trom
Morsul
Lottie
Sally
Brinn
Wilwa
Nerwen

Leaning guilty
Mnemo
Nogrod
Nienna
Pitchie
Shasta

PS. I really feel pitifully uninvolved. I promise I try to do something about that when I come back from school.

Macalaure

12-02-2009, 06:53 AM

I like Bes' analysis, except that it draws a lot on my inconsistencies. Don't forget that ordos, lacking any special knowledge, end up being inconsistent a lot, too.

I think I defended myself against pretty much all of his points already. New ones are that I was calling the votes against me a bandwaggon too early (but there were only a few minutes to go, and with Inzil's expectable one, I was in the lead - definitely enough reason to be concerned, I think), and my suspicion of Nienna (which really isn't strong at all, but her vote tried to save me, and sometimes wolves like to save people they know are innocent because it often earns their trust, and if the saving fails, trying to save a dead known innocent tends to look good).

Sorry, Trom. All that gender confusion in this game... :rolleyes:

I still have to verify my own suspicion of Pitch, but the way the suspicion against him is raised by several people lately makes me very uncomfortable.

I might be hurting myself now, but Boro: wolf-Mac would be very comfortable to keep you alive at this point, enjoying that he has fooled you this far and that you're sometimes hesitant to change your opinions once you've properly formed them. ;)

I was starting to wonder whether Lommy could be evil, but now her suspicions are almost the same as mine, which makes it difficult... unless my suspicions are completely off.

Macalaure

12-02-2009, 06:56 AM

Oh, there's this, too:

I'd say that's half accurate, since it's more like he never suspects too many people in one sitting.But honestly, how often does anybody suspect a larger number of people at the same time and in one post? That would be running loose. :eek:

Morsul the Dark

12-02-2009, 07:55 AM

sally
#79 in character says she doesn't know if she'll be voting.
#82 explains further that she hopes she can vote but doesn't want us waiting on her for she may not be around.
#153 returns and asks for a vote count
#169 doesn't think wolf-Mnemo would vote on a coinflip. Hunch against Shasta. Roa seems too strange. Trusts Nog, wants to leave Mac for tomorrow. And in absolutely no bluntness about it, says I'm the horned and hoofed, trident-wielding overlord of the lake of fire...tell me how you really feel why don't ya? :rolleyes: Votes Roa.
#178 "ties=evil"
#179 questions the legality of Nog's vote
#182 *pulls out hair*

Trademark sally to leave funny quibs and comments after posting up until the DL. I've got nothing on her at the moment, because the only way I can figure her out is if she is in danger of getting lynched. I have (in my opinion) a very nifty "tell" that she will never be able to pry from my cold-dead hands as it's the only thing so far I've been pick up what her role is...:p

Greenie:
#62 lays down the law about the pointlessness of the debate involving moi. Vague good feelings towards Lommy, Brinn, me, and surprisingly Nog. Suspicious of Roa, Inzil, Morsul and Nerwen.
#63 responds to Morsul about voting records can be useful even if it doesn't have bandwaggoning wolves.
#109 the Nog vs. Roa, concludes that both have left her with a headache.
#118 A list
Innocent: Eomer, Brinn, Pitch, Mac, Lommy, and me.
Neither: Inzil, Lottie, Nienna, sally, Roa, Bes, Shasta, wilwa, and trom
Worrying: Mnemo, Morsul and Nog.
#122 disagrees with Eomer about list making
#124 ponders voting either Nog or Mnemo
#132 votes Mnemo as a "gut vote" over Nog
#134 responds to Nog about his implying "if you didn't see this, than you're not an ordo" comments.

Wow, so far, I've had to do the most bolding for Greenie's posts, she's definitely said something about everyone. I personally don't like lists, because I find that I wind up repeating myself, but agree with Greenie that there is merit to them and it's definitely better than banter/nothing. What I want to know Greenie is why did you vote for Mnemo one what you called mostly being a gut thing and not Nog?

Shasta:
#45 "here and reading"
#46 2 cents between mine and Roa's reasonability. Disagrees with me because the wolves like sally can get of scott-free by being totally irrational.
#47 remarks on DL and an in-character post
#68 calls Morsul's comment about votes "wishy-washy fence-sitting"
#117 "here and reading"
#137 Nog vs. Roa, I've made a note to go "re-read this."
#142 response to Nog over the "if A than B and if not A than you're not B" stuff
#143 further clarification of #142
#152 Shasta/Eomer spinoff show
#171 votes Inzil, with no reason at all nor am I aware of any previous suspicion stated about Inzil.

Shasta is on my list of possible wolves. I've noted to go back and re-read 137, as that's been his largest contribution from Day 1. It looked like a lot of work and effort, but also had a feeling that he was enjoying the fight, with the whole awarding points for/against system. From pre-Day 1 he had a nice amount of posts but unlike Greenie from above, I didn't have to do much bolding, as he barely mentioned anyone, for either suspects or innocent. Today he has, but I've only scanned most of the posts from today, and will have to go through more thoroughly. But based on yesterday, he's a wolf-suspect.

Nerwen
#16 in-character responses to Inzil and Lottie.
#34 doesn't want to get paranoid about lynching gifteds and questions me over what I'm trying to say
#56 responds to me
#67 tells Mac that at least one wolf would probably ignore me and says she can't see how she was "attacking" me.
#72 defends Roa's counting slip
#76 people don't pay close attention to things, especially if they're an ordo.
#87 defends herself against Nog for "attacking" me.
#89 says mountain building is popular
#141 "back and reading"
#181 votes on Mac for his "dodgy reasons"

Boro makes points against some people not in the forefront of suspicion looks to be thinking outside the box to prevent bandwagonning looks pretty good...

Mnem Takes a look at Inzil

Inziladun...

First entered my radar with his second post (keep in mind that this is me analyzing my feelings for him after the fact). It just seemed odd: Everyone's been posting in character so far, except two, so what shall we do?

AHA! A SUMMARY!

This was made worse by the fact that he didn't say anything about the two people who were actually trying to post about the game itself (not that either one really said anything more than a restatement of the rules, something which I took issue with myself. At any rate it would have worked better to say something like that rather than "nothing of note".)

Next post he corrects Roa. I could see this going either way.

Next post deals with the small gifted discussion, in response to me. Concludes with "I see no reason why we should continue talking about it," but continues talking with Boro about it, two posts later. I prefer it when players suggest closing a certain discussion and then follow their own advice.

His next post, in response to Mac, looks like a legitimate rebuttal.

Next one defends self for continuing to discuss gifteds with Boro. Again, I can see his points here, since it was only one post. But that doesn't mean that he's off the hook for not following through on not talking about gifteds.

Next he weighs in on Nog's initial anti-Roa post, saying he's overreacting.

Asks Greenie why she voted me... (I suspect, for much the same reasons, sans coin, that I voted for him)

Begins fighting with Mac (at whom I also need to take a closer look). Finally votes him for sheer self-preservation.

So far today he's been continuing to talk about Mac...

She's in a lot of people's crosshairs so picking up on the would be lynchee may be a defense but the list doesn't seem really negative...

now here's an odd thing that makes me weary of Mac...

He called my vote well-reasoned, a description not shared by anyone in fact the closest was pprobably Pitch who said it seemed more a hunch but not bad for such a soon vote...

and in #248 he says So far I've been able to see where people who suspected me came from,

and then on Bes
I like Bes' analysis, except that it draws a lot on my inconsistencies. Don't forget that ordos, lacking any special knowledge, end up being inconsistent a lot, too.

He takes criticism too calmly for my comfort

Nerwen

12-02-2009, 07:59 AM

YAY I'M A WOLF.

Now there's a line you wouldn't want someone to quote out of context.:D

On a more serious note, I'm still not liking Mnemo, and the explanation she gives at #270 does't seem to explain very much:

Tacking this on: Nerwen, Pitch was joking with people who were playing straight through the game, rationally, as if the confines of the game were still present. Nothing wrong with that, except maybe that it added to that dreadful zeal. But if later on he praises them for playing straight through the game, when at the time he himself was extending the banter... I'd just rather he'd put his money where his mouth was.

Yeah, that would be perfectly good argument... except that we are talking about a couple of banter posts in the middle of page one!

I don't particularly care for this, either:

...Is it bad that I almost want to get lynched just so that people will know I'm innocent?

I don't know what to think. Yesterday she seemed fine, and in fact I was very surprised when she became a lynch-candidate. ToDay she's apparently gone off the rails. Understand, I'm not saying Inzil and Pitch aren't wolves– Zil is reminding me of his lupine self from time to time, and I don't believe we know what a Pitchwolf looks like at all– but her stated reasons for suspecting them are terribly weak.

On the subject of weak reasons... well, pretty much everything I could say about Loslote's "list + vote" post has already been said, I think. Why did she do that? She'd actually have got much less attention if she'd said she was voting on "gut-feeling".

EDIT:X'd with Morsul.
EDIT2:typo.

satansaloser2005

12-02-2009, 08:15 AM

I have (in my opinion) a very nifty "tell" that she will never be able to pry from my cold-dead hands as it's the only thing so far I've been pick up what her role is...

Oh really? Somehow I think my tell is not the tell you think it is. And if you're planning to lynch me just to find out that I'm a goodie I don't think I like your reasoning. I'd personally rather save people that are probably innocent in my eyes than lynch them just to see what they are. Or maybe I'm crazy and that's how the New Werewolf is played. Heck if I know. (Of course I'm mostly teasing here because I don't expect him to campaign to kill me at this stage, but if he does make up a big case against me later with little cause I'll be quite concerned.)

(Also, I should note that he had a tongue face at the end of that, but I had to remove it to be able to submit the post.)

Mac I be a girl

Goodie. I thought so, but wasn't sure. You can never tell on these here interwebs. (And sometime I'll have to tell you about when I joined and a certain Miss Kath wanted to call me Stan:rolleyes:)

Okay, to business. Sorry everyone, but I kept falling asleep last night so I gave up and went to bed. I'll be busy this morning (once they need me to actually go in, that is, as I've got some time right now) but the last couple hours of the Day will be blissfully empty so I'll be a bit more vocal, or at least I hope. I'll go finish (although I don't think I got that far:() my Brinn and Nienna analysis, and then I'm going to have a look at either Shasta or Nerwen. Wonder if I've found a pack yet. ;)

Mnemosyne

12-02-2009, 08:19 AM

But honestly, how often does anybody suspect a larger number of people at the same time and in one post? That would be running loose. :eek:

THIS.

Awake and caught up. Looking forward to seeing people's reactions, posts, etc. as they start coming in for the Big Finish.

Mnemosyne

12-02-2009, 08:21 AM

Speaking of "tell"s, Sally, are you a wolf? :p

(Feel free to answer that question or not, my dear)

satansaloser2005

12-02-2009, 08:24 AM

Speaking of "tell"s, Sally, are you a wolf? :p

(Feel free to answer that question or not, my dear)

My dear little duckling, I am not in fact a wolf. Are you? (Not that your answer would tell us anything, but still. It's polite to keep the conversation going, avoid awkward silences and all that.:p)

:Merisu:

Mnemosyne

12-02-2009, 08:26 AM

...but but but...

I love awkward silences! Especially when the awkwardness is broken by a loud and beautiful explosion!

Anyway, thank you, my dear, and no, I am not a wolf.

Shastanis Althreduin

12-02-2009, 08:43 AM

*loud and beautiful explosion*

On a more serious note.... ah, who am I kidding. This post was all about the explosion. :D

Morsul the Dark

12-02-2009, 08:45 AM

KERSPLODY

Mnem: I wasn't going to do this...

But this is going to eat at my head if I don't say it.

Reasons Mnemo does not trust players who remind her of her

I am more interested in having fun in a Werewolf game than living or dying.

I am more interested in having fun in a Werewolf game than winning or losing.

I enjoy having fun through banter, compulsively stalking the thread, and sometimes posting for the sake of posting.

I enjoy playing like this.

However, because I still want to win, I would rather not have too many players with these priorities on my side.

Therefore, I do not trust players like this in general.

I know myself. It's easier to project myself and my weaknesses as a player onto other people.

And the fact that the "having fun" bit comes so strongly so early in the game means that if people remind me of me during those first few posts, it's going to be a lasting first impression. So if I think, even on a subconscious level, that some of the players are going to have similar priorities to mine, I'm going to think that they might play like me and so wonder how sound their judgment is on individual players.

Which is really strike 2, as strike 1 for giddy players is that there's another perfectly reasonable explanation: "I'm excited because I'm a WULF this time!" (This also plays itself out when people say things like, "I think X!wolf would be spending more time on the thread than innocent!X)

Anyway, there you have it. I'm posting this because earlier some people (okay, two, but I was pretty high up on the lists yesterDay) found the conclusions I drew from these arguments (without presenting the arguments, which was somewhat dumb) suspicious. All fine and well. Just make sure you're suspecting me for the right reasons.

I'm not going to say anything more on this topic.

Should I consider You suspicious as this is hoow you're acting and you admit it's suspicious?

and to bring up once again the odd vote from yesterday:
Mnem: (Bolding mine)Okay, so the suspicionometers of everyone else on the thread were a lot less definitive than I thought...

And the vibes aren't giving me any more direction...

Which means it's coinflip time...

++Inziladun
Oh and This bit today:

Quote:
Mnem: YesterDay I had to vote early off no more information than gut feelings, and now that I've had the space of a day to think about it I'd like to actually analyze what I think is setting those feelings off. Feelings, after all, can be really misleading--especially mine (I can think of several other players who've managed to make inspired votes by intuition!).

but then again...

Mnem: Anyway, thank you, my dear, and no, I am not a wolf.

That's a persuasive argument...:rolleyes:

Oh and once again

KERSPLODY!

satansaloser2005

12-02-2009, 08:45 AM

*loud and beautiful explosion*

On a more serious note.... ah, who am I kidding. This post was all about the explosion. :D

*giggles, for she wanted to do the same thing but is busy analyzing*

Shasta, are you a wolf? ;)

*wonders if she can get everyone to sit in a circle and denounce their wolfdom as we eat toasted marshmallows and sing folk songs*

EDIT: x'd with Morsul. Are you a wolf? :p

Morsul the Dark

12-02-2009, 08:50 AM

Answering the question will further no causes... Everyone will say no even wolves...

Rumble(Aftershock)

satansaloser2005

12-02-2009, 08:52 AM

Answering the question will further no causes... Everyone will say no even wolves...

Rumble(Aftershock)

Hence why it's fun. Why does everyone ruin my fun? :(

*goes back to work*

Brinniel

12-02-2009, 08:58 AM

Brinn, yes, it was a bit of a stretch. However, it fit very nicely with the feelings I was having about your Nerwen-vote, so I added it anyway.
Well of course you would add it and I wouldn't expect anything less; after all, twisting words into 'slips' is something wolves enjoy doing. :p

Btw, I'm not exactly sure why my Nerwen vote looks bad. It's not the strongest reasoning, I admit, but I still think it was a valid one. And it's certainly better than no reason at all.

Once again, I really don't have the time I need to get a better grasp on players. I'll try to hold off my vote for now, though it will have to be sometime in the next four hours. Anyway, right now the closest thing I have to a vote is Loslote for her unreasoned vote. She even admitted she didn't have a reason to suspect Lommy. Summarising a post of her's does not make it look better if there's no actual opinion shared or conclusions made.

(And sometime I'll have to tell you about when I joined and a certain Miss Kath wanted to call me Stan)
I think you should've gone by that name. It so much more fun to say, not to mention it's easier to rhyme (like Steve). ;)

satansaloser2005

12-02-2009, 09:00 AM

*eats Brinn with the rest of her breakfast* :p

satansaloser2005

12-02-2009, 09:01 AM

Also....

I think you should've gone by that name. It so much more fun to say, not to mention it's easier to rhyme (like Steve). ;)

I shall now prove you wrong. By the end of the Day (or so I hope) you shall have something proving how easy my name is to rhyme. So there. :p

Morsul the Dark

12-02-2009, 09:12 AM

Sally lurking in an alley....
She crawled up from the valley...
To see the vote Tally...
then went off the Wolf Rally...

I'm actually kind of suspicious of Shasta right now; call it a hunch. Roa seems too strange to me (and as usual, the first Day is rubbish and I'm only able to sparknotes how I think) and while Nog looks weird I trust him so far. Boro's clearly the devil.

*pulls out hair* See what I come back to?

I think the whole end of the Day was rotten, and I'll tell you why as soon as I finish up some laundry. I swear I'll save some time to do a proper post, but unfortunately RL is eating me up.
Also, where's the new kid? I've not seen him/her yet and won't rest properly until I give them a nickname. *pokes them* Sad day. Off to analysis then.
I'll go finish (although I don't think I got that far) my Brinn and Nienna analysis, and then I'm going to have a look at either Shasta or Nerwen. Wonder if I've found a pack yet.
and then post after post of nothing...

Putting off this "analysis because you already know the answer? And Mnem's logic would say she should suspect you... but she doesn't say that I wonder If I have found a pack...

satansaloser2005

12-02-2009, 09:20 AM

Morsul, your vote of confidence is overwhelming. And on that note, I've finally finished Brinn. Sorry it's taken me so long; my brain doesn't like to turn on until at least noon. Heh.

Ugh, I just remembered how awful this deadline is for me. I'm only going to be around for a small window during the first half of the Day, unfortunately. So I'll do my best to participate now, though I'm afraid it's not much.

Nothing.

Nienna seemed to be the first to move away from the banter, which I appreciate. Right now I'm just too tired to process any long bantery posts, so let's just stay on-topic, okay?

I could say “oh, look, she doesn’t care what we say as long as it’s on topic” but I think this is just a busy Brinn who wants to not have to sludge through pages upon pages of IC posting. *shrugs*

On the subject of the gifteds, I agree we just leave it alone and not worry about accidentally lynching them. Our roles are our own responsibility and it's up to the gifted how they play. If we lynch them, it's not our fault; they are the ones to blame because it is by their own actions that makes them suspicious. And anyway, if we focus too much on who the gifteds may be and how to avoid them, we may end up leaving clues for the wolves, which could be quite dangerous if any of them are accurate.

This….this looks so weird to me. “Well, if we lynch the gifteds, that’s too bad; it’d be their fault.” Not necessarily. For instance *drags up old owies* when Shasta was a ranger and our dearest Boro was a wolf Shasta did nothing wrong; on the contrary, he did everything right, and he was still lynched for it because Boro was just darn clever and smooth (no offense, Shasta dear). And I’d honestly love an explanation for the last sentence. How can the ordos leave clues for the wolves on who the gifteds are? They don’t know who the gifteds are. I’m just sayin’ that it is the responsibility of the goodie team as a whole; we have to make a conscious effort not to kill off our gifteds. If it happens or someone mistakenly suspects one, that’s fine, because we all know it happens, but this rather carefree attitude of Brinn’s makes me suspicious of her motives.

Btw, I don't think Boro is saying let's lynch those who make sense and leave alone anyone who is acting suspicious. I think he's just trying to say we need to keep in mind that not everyone who is obviously suspicious is a wolf (and may even be possibly gifted) and not everyone who makes sense is innocent. So we can't make any assumptions based on that alone. Which I agree.

Defends Boro. And in fact they do have a point. Heck, I rarely make sense and I’m rarely a wolf; we do have to keep in mind differences in playing styles. But basically not a lot here, other than trying to (better?) explain Boro’s point of view.

How I hate Day Ones. Not that they're useless, but I always have trouble coming to any conclusions, especially this early in the Day. I don't think it'd be right for me to vote now since it'd have to be completely random and I'm not in the mood for randomness. So I may not vote at all toDay. There's a possibility I'll be able to pop in real quick and vote later toMorrow, but don't have any high expectations.

The thing I find strange about this is that when she does vote (a bit over two hours pre-DL) it looks to me as if she has to manufacture a reason. (More on this later.)

P.S. I also think we should keep in mind that the polar bears are an endangered species and we must work to save them. Because if we can't catch the wolves, the polar bears will totally do the job for us and eat them for breakfast.

Actually that was quite funny. Random, but funny. *grins*

And I'm sure you'd call it equally safe if I were to randomly vote instead. :rolleyes: But at that point of the Day when it's too early to have the slightest suspicion, what else am I supposed to do?

I'm pretty sure Nogrod is talking about my own decision not to vote because it was still too early in the Day, even if I might not return.

But anyway, I am back now, for a short time at least (my participation may be spotty since I am at work). And if I have enough time to look back at some things and see enough to form a suspicion, then I will vote before I leave again.

People have voted with less suspicion and been right before. (And I’m certainly not saying to do it, but it has happened. Anyway....) Not a lot in this other than that snark, so moving on.

I don't like the jump on Boro either. I personally found his message to make perfect sense, so I don't really know what the reactions are all about and for that reason, I would like to go back and take a look at those who did jump on him.

Defending Boro again, and apparently people who find him suspicious are possibly guilty. I’ll have to look into this more, but I may see a hint of a wolf connection. Dunno.

Also, I think voting for someone based only on what you think is a 'slip' is rather ridiculous. If you think that way, then fine. But have some evidence to further back up that suspicion before making the vote.

Yes, but if people do make slips we can’t just let them get away with it. Double standard.

That already happened last game. Back then it was quite fun since I was teamed with them, but if they are in cahoots together yet again, just kill me now.

Btw, I'm voting shortly since I'm done with work soon and I'm tired of looking over my shoulder in fear of getting yelled at by my boss..

Heh. Fair enough. And nothing in here much.

I almost forgot to vote! I'm a bit rushed since I have to run to class, but here we go..

The two people who stuck in my mind as suspicious are Nogrod and Nerwen. Nogrod's certainty over Roa's guilt seems a bit odd; why so confident on Day One? Whoever mentioned that his behaviour seems cobblerish, I agree. The problem is we don't even know whether we have a cobbler or not. As for Nerwen, she was very quick to jump on Roa's attack on Boro earlier; a very bandwaggonish move, which I find suspicious. So...

++Nerwen

Of course it's always possible...and it'd be almost funny if it did happen again. Anyway it seems quite typical for Nogrod and Roa to butt heads; though that does not necessarily point toward innocence or guilt.

This also strikes me as suspicious (see above). Of course we have Shasta’s take on her cobbler mention (which is possible but I’m not betting my RSC Hamlet poster on it) but she seems very uncertain. All of us are on Day One, so that’s all right, but she goes for Nerwen (“um, she looks bandwaggonish”) instead of Nog (“he looks like a cobbler, but we might not have a cobbler”….in my mind that would only leave one option, which is that no matter what he’s evil) and then at the end notes that she does think Nog could be innocent. It’s nearly an afterthought to me, as if Brinn thought to herself “Oh, that won’t look good, so I better throw in that I think the whole Roa/Nog controversy could be ordo-only. There, much better.” I just don’t like it.

(Although for the record I do like her vote for Nerwen itself, as I think she’s a bit shady too.)

So Roa dropped? What a shame; I was hoping to see more of the Nog & Roa show. But really, before I knew she dropped, I was starting to think it perhaps more likely that those two really were just two innocents at each other's throats. Nogrod can be a bold wolf, so I won't eliminate the possibility, but still it is rather risky to be going at it with an innocent with such force as early as Day One. If they are both innocent, the Roa vs. Nogrod was a great distraction for the wolves. With the events of yesterDay, our baddies could easily set him up for the next lynch target I think, which is why I would be rather uncomfortable to vote for him toDay.

Like I said before, basically backing off Nog completely now. More backpedalling? *scratches head* Of course it’s possible she just legitimately changed her mind, but I want to keep a close eye on it just in case as it looks like….well, I don’t know what.

Okay, now that really is a stretch. When I said "whether we have a cobbler," I meant "we" as in "the village." I really can't see what was wrong with what I said or why you'd consider it a 'slip.'

I don't exactly understand Loslote's vote for Lommy. She summarises a post of her's, yet fails to provide any of her own commentary.

She does have a fair point here about Shasta stretching, but her original post did look a bit odd. I’m chalking it up partly to tired/busy Brinn and partly to potential sneaky evil. Also, fair point on Little Lottie’s vote; I need to check into her and see what song she sings in the Night.

Well of course you would add it and I wouldn't expect anything less; after all, twisting words into 'slips' is something wolves enjoy doing.

Btw, I'm not exactly sure why my Nerwen vote looks bad. It's not the strongest reasoning, I admit, but I still think it was a valid one. And it's certainly better than no reason at all.

Once again, I really don't have the time I need to get a better grasp on players. I'll try to hold off my vote for now, though it will have to be sometime in the next four hours. Anyway, right now the closest thing I have to a vote is Loslote for her unreasoned vote. She even admitted she didn't have a reason to suspect Lommy. Summarising a post of her's does not make it look better if there's no actual opinion shared or conclusions made.

I think you should've gone by that name. It so much more fun to say, not to mention it's easier to rhyme (like Steve). ;)

Again, holds fair points, but the Nerwen vote looks off for specifically the reasons I stated above. Another good point about Lottie and then she just attacks me. *sobs bitterly* :p

All in all Brinn seems really busy but as we know we can’t let that keep us from suspecting her. I’m not going to push for a Brinn lynch toDay but I would go along with it if it came up because I think she’s a rather good suspect, busy or no. Sorry muffin.

Sorry, I've got to go into work. I'll be back when I can and will look over Nienna and others. Also, if there's any errors/ommissions in this post feel free to let me know, as I didn't have a chance to check it properly and I don't want to wait to post it. Until I return!

ETA: Just in case you don't realize, all quotes are by Brinn. *toddles*

Nerwen

12-02-2009, 09:26 AM

and then post after post of nothing...

Putting off this "analysis because you already know the answer? And Mnem's logic would say she should suspect you... but she doesn't say that I wonder If I have found a pack...

Or Sally has hacked into Mnemo's account and is busy having a conversation with herself.:smokin:

Seriously– Mnemo has seemed quite unlike herself toDay, and I was just thinking, "Now who does she remind me of... oh, I know... SALLY!"

EDIT:X'd with Sally (or possibly Mnemosally).

Inziladun

12-02-2009, 09:28 AM

I'm trying to peek in and keep up while dodging a pile of work.

I'm making a concious effort to divert my attention from Mac toDay, so who else looks worthy of note?

Boro is seeming too brash and sure of himself, giving off a odd vibe. I don't know I can call it a wolfish vibe just yet though. He's mostly made sense I guess, which by his own reasoning means he should be lynched, right? :p

Lottie's vote for Lommy is certainly unreasoned, and looks to be a perfectly safe vote for a wolf to make. However, I don't know that I want to vote for Lottie just on that.

Nog is a puzzle. He's not really sounding like the Nog I know from the past, yet I have a hard time finding fault with most of what he says. His zeal in pursuing Roa yesterDay was bizarre, and a departure from his usual Day 1 submarine-hunting activities.

Shasta I'm on the fence about. I need to look at him more closely.

Nerwen seems all right.

Greenie...Eh.. Not sure. I'd have to see more.

Brinn...No alarm bells really.

Sally: Nothing jumps out one way or the other.

Lommy looks ok right now.

Morsul: Again, nothing stands out.

Pitch is another one I have a hard time finding fault with. I have no idea how he would come off as a wolf, but he seems reasonable enough.

Eomer is one to watch. He's really done quite well with looking involved at just the right times, but I'm hard pressed to remember anything in particular he's said.

Mac: I'm deliberately leaving him be for now. All I'm saying is I don't plan to vote for him toDay.

Mnemo is worrisome. Her rationale for suspecting me is truly strange. Then there are statements like this:

Which is why I've decided that I'm not going to vote to try to save people anymore, much less vote "politically." And I encourage others to follow suit.

What does that mean? How was voting for me on a coin toss doing either of those things? Am I missing something?

And this:
Shasta: because suddenly guilt becomes relative.

Could you explain what you mean by that?
And she's been proclaiming innocence as well, which most innocents don't feel the need to do. The seeming rising tide against her concerns me somewhat, because I worry that it could be a wolfish plot to frame her. But she's surely given them a lot of ammunition if that's the case. :rolleyes:

I've probably missed someone, but I'm out of time for the moment.

x/d with 2 Sallys, Morsul, and Nerwen

Nerwen

12-02-2009, 09:40 AM

On the subject of the gifteds, I agree we just leave it alone and not worry about accidentally lynching them. Our roles are our own responsibility and it's up to the gifted how they play. If we lynch them, it's not our fault; they are the ones to blame because it is by their own actions that makes them suspicious. And anyway, if we focus too much on who the gifteds may be and how to avoid them, we may end up leaving clues for the wolves, which could be quite dangerous if any of them are accurate.

This….this looks so weird to me. “Well, if we lynch the gifteds, that’s too bad; it’d be their fault.” Not necessarily. For instance *drags up old owies* when Shasta was a ranger and our dearest Boro was a wolf Shasta did nothing wrong; on the contrary, he did everything right, and he was still lynched for it because Boro was just darn clever and smooth (no offense, Shasta dear). And I’d honestly love an explanation for the last sentence. How can the ordos leave clues for the wolves on who the gifteds are? They don’t know who the gifteds are.

I'd imagine she was just meaning the usual reason people avoid talking about gifteds: it's always possible the ordos might spot something the wolves have missed.

Anyway. I will be voting in the next few minutes, for either Lottie or Mnemo, unless something really extraordinary happens in the meantime. I don't like voting this early, but I don't have a choice.

Nienna

12-02-2009, 09:48 AM

I'm here. People who feel a little off to me: Lommy, Shasta, and Nerwen. I shall now commece analyzing them. I'm sorry if others have done so/ are planning on doing so but it only really helps me if I analyze them myself as people can spin their analysis any way they choose depending on their role. I'm sure you understand.

Mnemosyne

12-02-2009, 10:01 AM

Morsul, Sally operates under a completely different set of rules from the rest of us (and besides, I actually know her), so I always read her under different standards.

Inziladun, the coin toss itself weren't political, but the fact that I'd narrowed it down to you and Pitch certainly was because I wanted to vote someone (on top of all the vibishness) who could compete with Nog and Roa.

Nerwen, should I take my sudden Sallyosity as a compliment or an insult?

Morsul the Dark

12-02-2009, 10:12 AM

Wow kids way to be productive so far. Nogrod I'm shocked at you. This is a new side that I haven't seen. Not that it isn't a nice side but its different. :p

So we have 4 wolves, two gifteds and a secret role. Unless the secret role is a seer we don't have one of those. Our gifteds can talk though so they know each other which will give us known innocents later in the game. We've had a lot of early reveals without reason lately and I don't really recommend this. Voting toDay is necessary so someone will be lynched. We don't want to loose a gifted to day One lynching either so that would be the only real reason I can see for revealing.

I'll be around tonight and a few hours before deadline but I have class when deadline is so I won't be around then.
Nothing but restating rules...
Ahhkk I have 5 minutes before work but I'll be on later.

I agree with Mac about Boro. He was just stating something and then when everyone jumped on it he defended the statement.

I see the Nog I know and love coming back.

Lommy is suspecting me for absolutely no reason... this seems vaguely familiar :rolleyes: .... I'm going to do my best not to suspect you out of pure retaliation right now.

No one else stands out to me.

Edit: Crossed w/ Morsul
Not really anything... says she won't suspect Lomy out of retaliation
Ok so I'm super sorry I haven't been around till now. I was working. I'll be on till deadline though I don't know how much help I can be. Lommy is feeling the worst to me so far. Her posts haven't been helpful but I know she is coming on the computer so I'll giver her a slight chance. I don't think that Mnemo is looking all that suspicious. Nog and Roa are probably both innocents. I don't know what to do with Mac or Boro but I probably won't be voting for either of them. I also won't be voting Morsul. Edit: Crossed with a host
Lommy looks worst won't vote for me....
I would also prefer Zil over Mnemo or Mac.
Agrees with Mac odd coupling...
++Zil votes zil instead of Lommy despite Lommy looks worse

I wasn't sure at the time if I was just suspecting her because she suspected me. It was also near deadline and I didn't want Mac or Mnemo to be lynched so I was willing to use my vote to trying to save them as apposed to wasting my vote when I could have made a difference.
Morsul tends to be voted Day Ones because of his playing style and I didn't want to contribute to that.
Edit: Crossed with Morsul.
Two things... voted to save someone instead of going with what she thinks is right... and doesn't vote me based on Metareasons(Which are invalid I've played two games and survived a decent amount of time in one...) but she's the anti Meta Reason person
I'm here. People who feel a little off to me: Lommy, Shasta, and Nerwen. I shall now commece analyzing them. I'm sorry if others have done so/ are planning on doing so but it only really helps me if I analyze them myself as people can spin their analysis any way they choose depending on their role. I'm sure you understand.
We do understand...we also understand You could slant an analysis your own way...

Morsul the Dark

12-02-2009, 10:24 AM

Top suspects at this point...(In no Particular order)

Mac- as stated before takes votes and criticisms too calmly.
Shasta- Once again didn't mention Inzil but still voted him...
Mnem- Tried to put suspicion on me for a badly reasoned vote, yet not a kosher voter herself..

Suspicious but not yet Wolf level

Nienna- not posting much but what is posted is really not anything used meta reasons despite hatred of them.
Sally- same as Nienna I'll get it I've got it can't do it... but enough time to ask pointless questions...

Not really anyone not at all suspicious but they need more looking into...

Macalaure

12-02-2009, 10:29 AM

He takes criticism too calmly for my comfortValid criticism, yes. Shoddy criticism (see Nogrod), no. ;)

Nerwen

12-02-2009, 10:31 AM

Nerwen, should I take my sudden Sallyosity as a compliment or an insult?

Well, that's up to you isn't it?;)

Anyway, I can't leave this any longer, so–

++Mnemosyne

Reasons already stated.

I will add that I'm not really sure about this; she 's being kind of weird, but I'm not sure if it's wolfishly weird... but if I start second-guessing myself I'm be here all Day– and Lottie hasn't had a chance to explain her vote yet at all.

Good night.

EDIT:X'd with Mac and Morsul.

Shastanis Althreduin

12-02-2009, 10:33 AM

Someone ought to go back and see why I voted for Inzil. And by someone, I mean Morsul.

Boromir88

12-02-2009, 10:34 AM

I've got to vote within the next 2 hours, and I'm so behind on everything...urrg this always seems to happen.

Boro is seeming too brash and sure of himself, giving off a odd vibe. I don't know I can call it a wolfish vibe just yet though. He's mostly made sense I guess, which by his own reasoning means he should be lynched, right?~Inzil

Well I'm sure of who I am, but read post 271...that hardly looks like I'm sure of anything at the moment. Mac is all but tempting me to re-think everything on him and as far as who to vote for I have absolutely no idea, with not much time to figure it out.

Possibly Shasta or Greenie, I don't like the way they both jumped on Morsul's comments about placing less faith in votes. As well as both jumping on Nogrod going after Roa's slip.

Possibly Eomer for the fact that I forget he's back and playing.

Possibly you, Inzil, because I was going to vote for you yesterday, and today you haven't convinced me that I shouldn't.

Yep, that's about it right now. So, will catch up on all the reading and be around for the next 2 hours, then vote.

Nienna

12-02-2009, 10:37 AM

We do understand...we also understand You could slant an analysis your own way...

Yes, dear, but my analysis isn't for you all... it's for me. If others get helpful information out of it about me or the person I'm analyzing than good... if not then they should do their own analysis. I was just stating why I was doing an analysis of people who have already been looked at.

Shastanis Althreduin

12-02-2009, 10:40 AM

Morsul the Dark

12-02-2009, 10:45 AM

Someone ought to go back and see why I voted for Inzil. And by someone, I mean Morsul.

Ok I'll bite I've looked through your pots on this thread and don't see Inzil mentioned at all really give me one post number or can you not?

However Boro, Shasta and I disagreed on the value of votes though today they seem more helpful than last time...

Nienna

12-02-2009, 10:45 AM

Lommy

YesterDay:

58 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617316&postcount=58). List: suspects me for making captain obvious statements and starting the ‘lets not lynch the gifteds’ movement. Also vaugly suspects Nog (for weirdness) and Pitch (for maybe being too agreeable) and Mnemo (for captain obvious statements and continuing the ‘lets not lynch the gifteds’ movement…)

So her list was a bit weird. There wasn’t a whole lot of posting to list about. She did make some interesting notes but I believe her suspicion of me is unwarranted and looks quite suspicious in return. I had posted once so far when she posted this. I gave the first non-banter post and even if she thinks it is a Captain Obvious post I thought it was important. I’m very much a teacher in everything that I do and since there are people who haven’t played before I think that making these statements are important. Even for people who have played before it is sometimes important to be reminded of somethings. It is sort of a “Hey kids remember what happened last time? Lets try to not do that again. Kthanks.” And this is true especially with the gifteds revealing. Sorry if you think it is pointless but I do not. :D /rant.

85 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617355&postcount=85). Worried about a Nog/Roa collaboration

This is obviously not pertinent any more. Though it looks sort of like a wolf trying to cast suspicion around.

95 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617367&postcount=95). Thinks Nog/Roa are fellows, thinks their attack seems rather fabricated.

I can’t see where she is coming from at all. Their attack seemed very innocent on innocent to me. An innocent Nog found something to latch onto and an innocent Roa defended herself to the T. This seems very typical for both players involved which I would expect you to know.

151 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617431&postcount=151). Mentions she would push the Nog/Roa situation if she was a wolf (as she is doing) but she says she would also think it odd as an innocent, thinks their petty fight doesn’t actually seems suspicious and thus doesn’t warrant her vote, could vote Me or Mnemo but we haven’t done much to merit it either, could vote Eomer just because he would like it.

She totally flips in this post. She says in 95 that she thinks Nog and Roa are fellows but then when she is challenged that she might be a wolf casting this suspicion on them she totally flips and says she would also do this as an innocent and now that she thinks about it that maybe they aren’t really wolves.

157 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617437&postcount=157). Eomer’s vote for Mnemo makes her hesitant to vote for her and start a bandwagon and she’s not sure that Mnemo deserves a bandwagon, doesn’t know why Nog seems so desperate, still suspects me… maybe even more now that I suspect her though she believes her suspicion of me is justified but not my suspicion of her

This post confused me. She says that she now doesn’t want to vote for Mnemo but I’m not sure where she ever wanted to vote for her. Then she also makes a very complicated mess out of her suspicion of me, which she thinks is justified because she doesn’t suspect the others who have suspected her. /confusion.

163 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617443&postcount=163). A vote for me seems throwaway, debating between Nog or Mnemo.

She is now back to wanting to lynch Nog? He had no votes at the time so I don’t know how a vote for him wouldn’t have been a throwaway but for me would have been.

164 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617444&postcount=164). Thinks that Mac’s latest post doesn’t necessarily say ‘innocent’ to her.

168 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617448&postcount=168). Votes Mnemo

ToDay:

273 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617674&postcount=273). Thinks Shasta and I look bad after the voting, Nog was way over the top with the Roa thing, Mnemo is odd, wonders about Pitchie, not sure what to make of Lottie’s vote for her, list.

In summary: She is being wishy/washy with her suspicions and it seems like trying very hard to not look like a wolf. This definitely reads wolfish to me.

x-ed.

Boromir88

12-02-2009, 10:46 AM

*sighs*

One more time, Boro, and let's see if I can't get it through that delightfully thick skull of yours - I did not jump on Morsul for his comment about votes. I jumped on him for using far too many ellipsi and qualifiers in his paragraph. So there, nyah, :p.

Well I fail at thoroughly reading everything, so it's highly possible I missed you saying that earlier. Most of the time, to be honest, I find myself scrolling through the page looking for a bolded "Boro" and then respond or not. I don't do the serious analysis until after the fact, when I have the time to actually go through it all.

Morsul the Dark

12-02-2009, 10:50 AM

Glad to see I'm not the only one who when in a rush looks only for my name :p

Mnemosyne

12-02-2009, 10:50 AM

Morsul, when exactly did I put suspicion on you?

Boromir88

12-02-2009, 10:52 AM

Well I fail at thoroughly reading everything, so it's highly possible I missed you saying that earlier. Most of the time, to be honest, I find myself scrolling through the page looking for a bolded "Boro" and then respond or not. I don't do the serious analysis until after the fact, when I have the time to actually go through it all.

That also means if someone seriously thinks I need to see something, best just throw in a bolded "Boro" somewhere, then I will see it for sure. If not, there will be no guarantess that I'll see it, and I likely won't get to reading it until the following Day.

Morsul the Dark

12-02-2009, 11:00 AM

Morsul, when exactly did I put suspicion on you?

Hmm You know what thank you for asking that question made me rethink what was said I'll Downgrade you from one of the top suspects to suspicious...

Mnem:On the other hand, Morsul is irritatingly confusing and often confused. Which he is (for me, at least) elsewhere on the thread. Voting him would be easy, especially considering his vote for Mac.

But it's always easy to vote for someone who you think voted weird. I didn't vote for you because 1). you were pretty yourself, as far as I could tell (which my vibes yesterday were saying were off for Inzil and Pitch... analysis of both hopefully coming up in an hour or two), and 2). to me it felt like doing so would be a copout. I don't like making "easy" votes in Werewolf, unless the Seer has come out and told me who a wolf is.

Now I feel I may have put too much stock in these few phrases... However since you asked these were what I was talking about

Macalaure

12-02-2009, 11:34 AM

Thoughts on Roa.

Before I even start, I'll let you know that I will ignore everything Nogrod said, for brevity's sake. It's been talked about enough anyway. My opinion about it is that both a good and an evil Nog could have launched that attack, and it's unlikely to change. Same for her altercation with Boro. I'm mostly looking for the things that might have gone unnoticed.

It's a pity that Roa got entirely sidetracked by those two. No opinions on anyone else at all.

Unless I overlooked something, the only one to give the counting-theory any merit outside of Nogrod is Eomer.
Nerwen went side to side with her for a long time, and it doesn't look like a wolf buddying up to an innocent.
Pitch, Lommy didn't want to lynch her early on. Pitch stays like that, while Lommy changes her mind and thought that she and Nogrod could both be wolves, or at least one of them.
Mnemo defends Nogrod from Roa's cobbler theory.
Eomer explains Nogrod's accusations to Roa. He gives himself a neutral expression.
Brinn votes Nerwen for joining Roa too quickly. Not necessarily a move a wolf knowing about Roa's innocence would do.
Mnemo won't vote Roa, neither will Eomer.
Green doesn't understand Roa. Gives her the longest comment in her suspicion summary. Looks like she really was confused about her and tried to figure her out.
Inzil and especially Shasta are most adamant at defending Roa from Nogrod.
Nienna thinks she's innocent.
Bes suspects both her and Nogrod.
Sally votes Roa.

Alright, these are a whole lot of half-hearted comments that could go either way.
Mnemo's defending Nogrod is slightly suspicious if Nogrod is evil.
Not sure how to interpret Eomer's neutrality.
Nerwen and Brinn look better. So do Green, Inzil, and Shasta to a lesser extent, and Pitch to an even lesser extent, although they could have faked it. I might throw Bes in there, too. Their behaviour around Roa looked more innocent than guilty.
Lommy is too hesitant with her Roa-Nogrod thing.
The rest could really go either way.

Boromir88

12-02-2009, 11:41 AM

The fact that Boro was one of them and apparently tried to discourage me from checking actually makes me feel somewhat better about him– because I don't think Borowolf would do anything as silly as that.~Nerwen
I should explain that I think there is merit in looking at the only piece of concrete info we have.

At that time, I thought you were over-hyping the amount of people who jumped on with Nog's full frontal assault. Plus, since at that time you just left it at "we should go look at this" I was thinking a wolf-Nerwen was trying to give us a red herring. Since you have further anaylzed it though, I'll just add my 2 cents.

I had already admitted to pointing out Roa's mistake, and acknowledging what Nog was talking about. That's why I gave it so much consideration. But you should also realize that after confirming to Nog that I knew what he was talking about, I directly told him that it was weak and I was in no way going to vote for Roa based on a numbers slip.

We can't blame Nog or anyone else for pointing it out, and thinking it was intentional. I mean first, anyone who knew the correct number would have noticed it, and especially in Nienna's first post she said "4 wolves" too.

Neither of them pursued this, though. I had an impression that people jumped on the "case" much more than they actually did, I think because Nogrod was making so much noise about it.
But I still think that Eomer's looks evil, he agreed with Nog that it was intentional, but left it at that.

Oh really? Somehow I think my tell is not the tell you think it is. And if you're planning to lynch me just to find out that I'm a goodie I don't think I like your reasoning. I'd personally rather save people that are probably innocent in my eyes than lynch them just to see what they are. Or maybe I'm crazy and that's how the New Werewolf is played. Heck if I know. (Of course I'm mostly teasing here because I don't expect him to campaign to kill me at this stage, but if he does make up a big case against me later with little cause I'll be quite concerned.)

I didn't say I was planning to lynch you, and neither did I say you had to be lynched for me to notice the sign. I said you had to be in danger of getting lynched, and if this happens, than I will be your knight in shining armor any day. ;) However, since you are not in danger of getting lynched, this tell hasn't happened yet, therefor you're still in the limbo phase of "I don't know."

Glad to see I'm not the only one who when in a rush looks only for my name

I would bow down to anyone and admit their awesomeness if they say they have the time to read everything (on that day) + post + vote. :p

To wilwa: I've been searching for a new rivalry since Menel's departure. If you want to start re-hashing old fights, bring it, because you know the score so far is Wild Eye 1 - Dark Monarch = Zero

All I have on Lommy right now is to say her Boro-radar is still in perfect working condition. But, I'm surprised you're really not being so flippy-floppy, have I really become that predictable to you or are you a more confident wolf?

Nogrod

12-02-2009, 11:56 AM

OMG... I just got to page 8 thinking there would be only a few posts and that I could then join in... but a whole page more!!! :eek:

So it will take some time as I'm a slow reader...

satansaloser2005

12-02-2009, 12:17 PM

Or Sally has hacked into Mnemo's account and is busy having a conversation with herself.:smokin:

Seriously– Mnemo has seemed quite unlike herself toDay, and I was just thinking, "Now who does she remind me of... oh, I know... SALLY!"

EDIT:X'd with Sally (or possibly Mnemosally).

Sally: Mnemo, would you like to hatch a plan?
Mnemo: Absolutely. What plan?
Sally: *smothers Mnemo, takes her laptop and talks to herself*
Mnemo: *muffled* That's not what I had in mind.

Or we could be the gifteds and we planned this out last Night.

OR we're just fun like that.

Your choice.

Morsul, Sally operates under a completely different set of rules from the rest of us (and besides, I actually know her), so I always read her under different standards.

Inziladun, the coin toss itself weren't political, but the fact that I'd narrowed it down to you and Pitch certainly was because I wanted to vote someone (on top of all the vibishness) who could compete with Nog and Roa.

Nerwen, should I take my sudden Sallyosity as a compliment or an insult?

In order: Exactly. Fair enough, but not happy with it. Oi!

Here and have caught up *pets Nog* but need a nap so I'll be back soon-ish.

Nogrod

12-02-2009, 12:27 PM

I would bow down to anyone and admit their awesomeness if they say they have the time to read everything (on that day) + post + vote. :pExpecting a bow now... ;)

I did it!

Hmph, then I have to think... :smokin:

Pitchwife

12-02-2009, 12:35 PM

Back and reading.

Boromir88

12-02-2009, 12:37 PM

Eomer-lysis since I haven't considered any concrete thoughts about him at all yet, and he is someone who shouldn't let slip. I could say that same for Mnemo, haven't put much thought towards her since the very beginning of Day 1, but Eomer has the fewer posts and I have to leave soon. Sorry, Mnemo, you'll have to be postponed to another day.

Eomer:
#75 defends me and tells Nerwen sometimes stating the obvious is necessary. Tells Nog he thought Roa's slip was intentional, he's not sure what it tells him, and after this I don't think he says anything else on it. Thinks Mac is tricky, Morsul is too slippery, and doesn't like Bes's post towards me.
#105 says Roa and Nog could very well both be innocents stoking the flames for reaction or too stubborn to see they're both wrong. He plays mediator and says he won't concentrate on those two anymore.
#113 responds and disagrees with Roa, about part of Nog's reasons being her argument with me.
#119, thinks Inzil's first list was pointless since most of the discussion prior was in character. Says trom was only in character. Disagrees with Mac about whether I would have dropped the point sooner or not as a wolf. Says Lommy's list is just a big block of text and Morsul's suspicion/vote for Mac was "interesting."
#121 agrees with Roa that it was odd for Nog to say his case on her involved me.
#123 jests with Greenie and says he's gone most of the day not arguing with Lommy.
#129 says Mnemo's referenced three times she believes Nog and Roa are innocent
#133 lists of who he won't vote for and who he might.
#144 vote tally
#146 votes Mnemo for shadiness and not wanting to add another name to the vote-getters. Says he's gambling, so "no hard feelings" to Mnemo.
His other 2 posts are jests with Shasta.

Several posts where Eomer looks pretty light-hearted and relaxed, but I've come to see him as that type of player, but I also think he's a rather strong, and very aggressive wolf-hunter. He definitely gets into your face, and so far I haven't been seeing that. Possibly, because it's early on, but I'm not familiar with an Eomer who cares how "soon" it is before he starts getting after suspected wolves.

Most of my suspicions are on the fact that he's not following through, or committing much towards anything. He directly points out noticing what Nog did, but leaves it as feeling neutral. He says Roa and Nog are both probably innocent, tries to mediate, but then suspects Mnemo for saying she believes they are both innocent. Granted, he's got a point about the number of times she mentioned it is strange, but even his vote looks forced.

What I mean is in #133 he has his list of who could get his vote, that's at 8:05. This list includes Inzil, Mnemo, Pitch, Brinn, Mac, Lommy, and Nerwen, then in #146 (8:33 - roughly half an hour later) he votes Mnemo and says he's gambling with it. Not a lot of time elapsed between those 2 posts, and since Eomer hasn't given us much conviction towards anyone, the vote just looks like it was cast for whoever.

The other suspicious thing is in #144 he gives a vote tally, there was one vote each for Mac, Nog, Inzil, Nerwen, and Mnemo, then in #146 he says a reason for Mnemo:
There are a number of shady characters around here, and I don't want to add a new person to the voting list.
The problem is the other 4 people with 1-vote were all on Eomer's possible voting list in #133...so why say that about your vote for Mnemo?

Brinniel

12-02-2009, 12:39 PM

I have to go to class in about 10 minutes, so I'm voting now. And since no better candidates have come forward:

++Loslote

No, she has not been back to explain her vote, and she probably won't return toDay. But even if she does return, I have doubts there will be much explaining considering in the posts before her vote she kept saying she suspects Lommy, but doesn't have a reason for it. She'd probably call it a gut feeling or something like that, but at this point we're beyond gut feelings and unreasoned suspicion. With eight pages of posts, surely everyone should have at least some reason to suspect somebody. With perhaps the exception of those majorly lacking in time. Which I don't think is the case with Loslote, because then I don't think she would've even bothered to summarise Lommy's post. I still don't understand why that summary is even there, if there is no conclusion made from it...or if there is, she's not sharing it which is silly since the conclusion is more important than the summary itself.

If I had time, I'd respond to Sally's analysis of me since I find some points rather flawed, but unfortunately I really must go, so it'll have to wait until toMorrow. Btw dear, while Sally can be rhymed with, Stan is such a better name for rhyming. For example, if you were named Stan, I could write a poem about Stan and the Saucepan Man. So there. :p

Morsul the Dark

12-02-2009, 12:39 PM

Nerwen Why must you be so darn reasonable:mad: :p

I'm looking back over her posts and her vote for Mnem seems logical but.... She's so hard to read... Also doesn't help I always feel sweet talked by her...:rolleyes:

Hmm... Mac seems too polite and doesn't fight back enough for me to call wolf Today...

Mnem and Sally are at this particular point most bothersome but Sally's just being Sally it seems Mnem on the other hand holds different people to different standards but seems not so much wolfish as a new playmate for Sally...

Shasta- Still waiting on your rational for voting Inzil I looked over your posts didn't find Anything about him.

Shasta's a top contender... unless I see something else I know where my votes going.

Nogrod

12-02-2009, 12:42 PM

Well just two general comments first...

Looking at the number of grammatical hair-splitting one would think this is a cruise for humanists and not biologists. :)

There was an odd amount of voting yesterDay where people suspected two others and then decided to vote for the one they suspected less by arguments...

Mac: I'm not suspecting you that heavily (I think you were only the fourth on my list). But your seeming need to defend yourself all the time looks a bit eyebrow-raising as I don't think you're the number one candidate to be lynched toDay anyway. Careful not to suspect too many?Well, yes... or what do you say of this? Too many people look innocent to me right now. I don't want to vote Boro, Eomer, Lottie, Roa, Bes, Shasta, Greenie, and trom, and I would like to avoid voting Mnemo, Morsul, Brinn, Pitch, Nienna, and Nerwen.

Sally and Wilwa aren't newbies to me, but apart from those, they are the two who haven't provided much. Don't like voting them for that, of course, but I would rather do that than vote any of the above.That's only 16/19... :D

Inziladun

12-02-2009, 12:48 PM

Unless I overlooked something, the only one to give the counting-theory any merit outside of Nogrod is Eomer.

Boro said:But I still think that Eomer's looks evil, he agreed with Nog that it was intentional, but left it at that.

I had forgotten that, and what Eomer said about it left no doubt of Roa's simply making a mistake. But then he backed off from actually accusing her.

Aye, Nogrod, soon as I saw Roa's counting-mistake I remarked: "intentional". Not sure what it means, though. I wouldn't be quick to lynch Roa because she brings a lot to the table in terms of discussion.

Possibly a wolf wanting to fan some flames a bit, but not wanting his hands to get too dirty.
Then again, that's not conclusive of anything. Eomer does set off some warning bells though because of that, and a general feeling I have from the way he appears to be trying to lie low.

x/d with several-fixed the second quote to indicate it was Boro's

A Little Green

12-02-2009, 12:55 PM

Can someone accuse me or get me otherwise very involved? Because I feel strangely "unattached" from this game, I'm reading it as if I wasn't playing it myself. Hmph.You're a wolf. :p Satisfied?
I was starting to wonder whether Lommy could be evil, but now her suspicions are almost the same as mine, which makes it difficult... unless my suspicions are completely off.Why exactly would a Lommywolf sharing your suspicions automatically mean your suspicions are off? True, it would require a Lommywolf who has some wolf-on-wolf -suspicions, but then, we've seen that before.
I don't know what to think. Yesterday she seemed fine, and in fact I was very surprised when she became a lynch-candidate. ToDay she's apparently gone off the rails.I don't know what to think, either. YesterDay she seemed too calculated and nice. ToDay, she's indeed "gone off the rails" (though that sounds a bit nasty, sorry Mnemo), but I can't decide if it makes her look better or worse. More confusing, at least. So: is she a wolf who realised that being reasonable and measured and agreeable gets her suspected and thus decided to change strategies? Or an ordo who's just having more fun toDay that yesterDay? Eurgh I don't know. She's still featuring in the top of my suspicion list.
Possibly Shasta or Greenie, I don't like the way they both jumped on Morsul's comments about placing less faith in votes. As well as both jumping on Nogrod going after Roa's slip.I don't think I jumped on Morsul - at least I didn't intend to - I disagreed with his point. As for Nogrod, his jumping on Roa's "slip" was downright illogical and weird so of course it drew my attention and I confess I might have jumped a bit.
I would bow down to anyone and admit their awesomeness if they say they have the time to read everything (on that day) + post + vote.A bow, please, sir. I do that every day. :smokin:

EDIT: x-ed with Zil

Nienna

12-02-2009, 01:00 PM

Morsul: Check out 171 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617451&postcount=171) for Shasta's vote reasoning... I'm analyzing him and just got to that one it might help your confusion.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

12-02-2009, 01:01 PM

Ice to see you all.

:rolleyes:

As for laying low, some of us have work. You'll mostly see me make a post at the very start of the day, and then appear for the final couple of hours.

Well, I'll answer a couple of points against me but I won't spend too much time on it. Too old, too cold, to get worked up. Look at the quotation over Roa's counting:

'Aye, Nogrod, soon as I saw Roa's counting-mistake I remarked: "intentional" '

Now, perhaps you're interpreting this differently to me, but all I did was, soon as I saw Roa's post, literally say out loud: "Ah ha! Intentional miscount!" A split-second reaction that I thought I'd share. Believe it or not but I didn't actually commit to thinking Roa was up to something, hence why I didn't pursue it and actively stated that I thought Roa was likely innocent. I can see why you think that's fanning flames but oh well.

Boro, you mentioned that I was in the substantial group of people speaking against your 'reason/rationality warning' but I wasn't.

Short post to follow, with one other point for Boromir.

Mnemosyne

12-02-2009, 01:01 PM

Thinlómien

12-02-2009, 01:02 PM

Why's everybody so jumpy? Mnemo, for one, as Nerwen pointed out. And Sally too? Who's really been threatening to lynch her? And Mnemo has got about as many defenders as accusers.

Mnemo and Sally's little exchange is interesting. Awkward, sort of, and makes me raise my eyebrows. Not sure what to make of it, though. Sally seems innocent since she continues that joke a bit over the top (I'm not sure if she'd dare to do that as a wolf) but Mnemo is a bit more worrying case. I mean, the carefulness in which she states that Sally can or can not answer is slightly weird...

Morsul, you seem more and more innocent to me all the time, but I will change my opinion if you keep posting such horribly long quotes! :p

Sally's case on Brinn is quite interesting and I can see it having some merit. Although, if Brinn seems suspicious to me, she's most probably innocent because when she's guilty I never suspect her... :rolleyes:

Nienna, I was sort of torn about Nog and Roa, because at first it looked so fabricated (because although they always quarrell, it's normally not this rash and blind) and then not so much... I wanted to give them more time to get a better picture of them, although back by the end of the Day I was thinking that everybody should "get more time" as much as them so I considered voting Nogrod.

She is being wishy/washy with her suspicions and it seems like trying very hard to not look like a wolf.No, if I really was a wolf I would be thinking what kind of impression I'm giving and truth be told the whole thing hasn't crossed my mind until now...

All I have on Lommy right now is to say her Boro-radar is still in perfect working condition. But, I'm surprised you're really not being so flippy-floppy, have I really become that predictable to you or are you a more confident wolf?Predictable? Nope. If you remember, last time we played I was quite sure you were a wolf, you got lynched and you weren't one. This time I just feel pretty confident about your innocence, I'm not certain I'm right, but it's generally easier for me to read you than many others.

edit: xed with whole page 9

Boromir88

12-02-2009, 01:02 PM

Expecting a bow now...

I did it!

Hmph, then I have to think...

A bow, please, sir. I do that every day.

It must be a Finnish thing. :p *Bows and admits the Finns awesomeness*

So, now that you've read everything, how much have you managed to maintain? :p

Pitchwife

12-02-2009, 01:06 PM

Mnemo, suspect me all you want, but this is weak. So it's suspicious that I post in small spread-out chunks, right (among other things, but those have been commented on by others in the meantime)? I'm sure you can do better.
I'll tell you why I do that (and I've been doing it in the last two games or so). I'm a really slow writer, because I think with my fingers on the keyboard, and a bit of a perfectionist too, and I've realized that trying to make comprehensive lists or lengthy posts of any substance and follow an agitated discussion at the same time is just hopeless for me - either I lose sight of what's going on at same time, or I never get anything posted. So I'm trying to do it this way - post a chunk, read on, go back, post another chunk, etc. as they come. And I intend to go on with it, if you don't mind.
And now I'd rather start thinking about who to vote toDay.

Shastanis Althreduin

12-02-2009, 01:07 PM

Morsul -

Page 6, post 220, middle of the post.

To answer Mac - I wasn't "sure" that you and Mnemo were innocent, but to my mind there was less "evidence" against either than you than there was against Inzil, who was the only other possible lynch. I didn't vote for him because you suggested it.

X'd with Pitch.

Thinlómien

12-02-2009, 01:08 PM

That's only 16/19... Fair catch - it is often the wolves who suspect the least people, or rather, "not-suspect" the most people.

You're a wolf. Satisfied?Better than Mnemo's un-quoteworthy try... :Merisu: :p

YesterDay she seemed too calculated and nice. ToDay, she's indeed "gone off the rails" (though that sounds a bit nasty, sorry Mnemo), but I can't decide if it makes her look better or worse. More confusing, at least. So: is she a wolf who realised that being reasonable and measured and agreeable gets her suspected and thus decided to change strategies?Nicely phrased.

It must be a Finnish thing. *Bows and admits the Finns awesomeness*Exactly, I did it too. ;)

edit: xed with Pitch and Sha-sha-sha-shasta

Shastanis Althreduin

12-02-2009, 01:09 PM

As far as voting goes, I haven't seen anything to sway me away from Nerwen, so she's probably who (whom?) I'll be voting. I'll be here through deadline, though.

X'd with Lommy.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

12-02-2009, 01:09 PM

Boro quoted me here:

"There are a number of shady characters around here, and I don't want to add a new person to the voting list."

The problem is the other 4 people with 1-vote were all on Eomer's possible voting list in #133...so why say that about your vote for Mnemo?

Actually, Boro, Nogrod had received a vote too; he wasn't on my list.

And also on my list were Pitch, Brinn and Lommy. Surely, you see my point that I didn't want to vote for one of them?

I effectively gave myself a shortlist of 4 and picked one.

Morsul the Dark

12-02-2009, 01:10 PM

Sorry Lommy I just prefer my arguments in context :cool:

And Nienna I saw that quote but to me it just says 'm voting Zil because I'm not voting the others... And he doesn't mention any qualms with zil before that

Thinlómien

12-02-2009, 01:11 PM

Ooh, the next jumpy player around. Soon we'll have four ie all the wolves. ;)

edit: xed with everybody

Boromir88

12-02-2009, 01:12 PM

Boro, you mentioned that I was in the substantial group of people speaking against your 'reason/rationality warning' but I wasn't.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't a list of substantial people who disagreed/spoke out against, if it's the post I'm thinking you're thinking (It's past 2:00 which means I have to leave in like 5 minutes) than I was telling Nerwen all the people who commented on it. And I recall that you did say 2 things in general. First, that you agreed with the principle, and secondly to Mac disagreeing that I wouldn't have dropped it easily if I was a wolf.

I want to give Eomer a benefit of having more time to answer, so will vote who I wanted to yesterday...

++Inzil

For the reasons I was going to mention yesterday, but you can check the first post of today. And I haven't seen Inzil say anything to me to convince me otherwise.

Mnemosyne

12-02-2009, 01:14 PM

Not so much suspicious as annoying, Pitch. But it's also a tactic that's very easy for a wolf to hide behind because it can look as if you're saying more than you actually are. So not objectively wrong in and of itself, but combined with the other matters...

Yes, weak, but all the other cases I came up with last night were even weaker. Hopefully toMorrow I'll be able to start shifting my eyes elsewhere as we get more and more substance... and more knowledge of roles, and a death choice (unless, of course, we get a Ranger save). But I wanted to try to explain to myself why I was feeling odd about you yesterday, and I found more evidence for you than anyone else I looked at.

Mnemosyne

12-02-2009, 01:15 PM

Lommy, I have two words for you:

Neener. Neener.

Thinlómien

12-02-2009, 01:16 PM

Lommy, I have two words for you:

Neener. Neener.Is that an anagram of Nerwen? :Merisu:

Nienna

12-02-2009, 01:19 PM

Shasta

YesterDay

46 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617295&postcount=46). Summarized the Day: Boro v. Roa on ‘Reasonableness’

47 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617296&postcount=47). In character but the deadline is weird for him

68 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617334&postcount=68). Calls Morsul wishy-washy and fence sitting

137 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617417&postcount=137). Points against Nog for being definitive in his suspicion against Roa, point against Eomer for subtly backing Nog up, point for Roa for her reaction to Nog, point against Nog for wild accusations on flimsy evidence, point for Roa… not sure why, point for Nog for giving a more accurate representation of what Boro said, 3 points against Nog for bringing up something her shouldn’t really bring up anyway, point against Roa for the Nog-Cobbler theory because it’s a stretch. Nog has now cleared up some ambiguities and he’d rather not vote for him, he won’t vote Roa but would be willing to vote Eomer.

This is an interesting post… I think it is a good analysis of the Nog/Roa thing giving them each criticisms

142-3 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617422&postcount=142). Clarifying for Nog

171 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617451&postcount=171). Votes for Zil, would rather not see Mac or Mnemo go

I voted for him for the same reason so I cannot fault it.

ToDay:

220 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617602&postcount=220). Isn’t really buying Boro’s ‘this isn’t how I play as a wolf’ act, didn’t vote for Zil because Mac suggested it, defends not throwing away his vote

Seems reasonable (do with that what you will)

234 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617622&postcount=234). Notices a weird phrasing by Brinn, Newen’s vote was mostly out of nowhere, at the last moment, and would have sealed Mac’s fate. He doesn’t trust Nerwen

I disagree with the point about Brinn’s phrasing as it made perfect sense to me. I do think that Nerwen’s vote was a little dodgy.

256 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617647&postcount=256). Agrees that his point against Brinn might be a bit of a stretch

In Summary: I’m not sure why he was ringing alarm bells for me… he seems to be making reasonable points, his thing about Brinn was a stretch but he knows that… I’m going to just have to keep watching him.

Edit: Crossed.

Mnemosyne

12-02-2009, 01:20 PM

Nope, just some onamatopoetic mockery.

Pitchwife

12-02-2009, 01:21 PM

Morsul: Check out 171 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617451&postcount=171) for Shasta's vote reasoning... I'm analyzing him and just got to that one it might help your confusion.
You mean this? :
I don't see anything on either Mnemo or Mac and I'd rather neither went.
++Inziladun
Not where I expected my vote to have to go, at all, but I don't see any more support for Nogrod, and none at all for Eomer.
Explaining why (or rather mentioning that) he didn't want to vote some others, but where's the reason for the vote he actually made?

Nienna

12-02-2009, 01:24 PM

You mean this? :

Explaining why (or rather mentioning that) he didn't want to vote some others, but where's the reason for the vote he actually made?

I believe he was voting to save Mac and Mnemo not necessarily to kill Zil... does that make sense? ...and Shasta feel free to correct me as I'm speaking about something that might be untrue.

Morsul the Dark

12-02-2009, 01:26 PM

Votes... Voters
Lommy... Loslote not really a reason given
Boro... Trom bad feeling boo's too open
Pitch... Mnem only one with "concrete evidence"
Mnem... Nerwen Reasons already stated
Loslote... Brinn No better candidates
ZIl.. Boro giving Eomer more time

Lommy-1
Boro-1
Pitch-1
Mnem-1
Loslote-1
Zil-1

And I agree with pitch that post doesn't explain anything as far as I can tell...

wilwarin538

12-02-2009, 01:32 PM

Wow, that took me a long time. So some thoughts:

Good news is I feel pretty good about trom being innocent, despite her vote.

Here's the deal, I sort of have this reputation for being ruthless, slippery SOB...erm wolf. Shasta, I know can certainly fill you in about some down-right evil stories, but we can take a trip down memory lane another time. That's my reputation, people really don't like to trust me, eventhough everything is telling them that they can, because we never liked to get fooled.

I typically find myself spending an abnormal amount of time trying to get everyone to trust me when I'm innocent, and thus the openness. So is the way of the world though, and I'm not sure why I even do it, because it is an impossible thing.

Also, believe as a wolf I am more sly than directly pointing out "I'd do this as a wolf, and since I didn't, I'm not" trick, because I don't hand out my wolf-secrets. Mith, Lommy, Rikae (and apparently Mac now) to name a few have picked up on some of the unintentional signs, but there's nothing I hand out.

To refrain from a spiel, I'll leave it at this...I'm innocent. Believe it or not, that's your choice, and if and when I die are you willing to bet eating a toaster when my innocence is proven? :p

Dislike. Everyone has the potential to act differently every game, some people may have little things that they do all the time, but no matter what strategies are subject to change. The more games you play the more your strategies change. So saying "this is not how I act as a wolf" and using that as your argument really does not make me think you're innocent, cause since you know how you may act as a wolf of course you'll act differently when you're a wolf again. It just isn't right.

I'm kind of grudging Legate for making this "humane decision" event. Because now we don't have any dead ie cleared people. And no wolf-kill tracks to follow (although this will be one of those painful games where the kills are more confusing due to the lack of a seer). So it's kind of good Roa had to leave (although that was sad :() because that means we have some information.

I agree, having the votes is great and avoiding the chance of lynching an innocent is good, but having those two deaths Day 2 always helps, even though it sucks when they're innocents, or worse gifteds. My thinking aswell is that now we're not going to go after Inzil for a while, since even though he didn't die people may think "oh, well lets go for someone else today" and then he could be a wolf this whole time and we could be letting him get by. Does that make sense? I mean I'm not saying "lets get Inzil and finish what we started" cause I don't really suspect him, but it just feels so weird to me.

To wilwa: I've been searching for a new rivalry since Menel's departure. If you want to start re-hashing old fights, bring it, because you know the score so far is Wild Eye 1 - Dark Monarch = Zero

Negative, baddies totally won that game! Dark Monarch = 1, Wild Eye= -50. :p

Morsul is making me uneasy, he gives all these super long quotes and then like a 1 sentence comment, doesn't seem like much. So keeping my eye on him. Nothing really concrete though I guess.

Eomer is under my radar, which is weird.

Mnemo is acting a bit different then yesterday, but I still don't really feel suspicious of her.

Nog, Mac and Nerwen I'm all good with so far.

Shasta I'm iffy about, a few things seem off (his comment about Brinn's "slip of the tongue" is a little weird), but not really enough to truly suspect.

My vote might be going to Boro, I don't really know yet.

I desperetly need to study for a bit, but I'll come back for about the last 40 minutes before DL, which is in 1.5 hours right???

x'ed with a bunches

Nienna

12-02-2009, 01:35 PM

Yes, Wilwa, that is deadline.

Morsul the Dark

12-02-2009, 01:37 PM

Wiiillwaaaa wilwa...:D
I agree, having the votes is great and avoiding the chance of lynching an innocent is good, but having those two deaths Day 2 always helps, even though it sucks when they're innocents, or worse gifteds. My thinking aswell is that now we're not going to go after Inzil for a while, since even though he didn't die people may think "oh, well lets go for someone else today" and then he could be a wolf this whole time and we could be letting him get by. Does that make sense? I mean I'm not saying "lets get Inzil and finish what we started" cause I don't really suspect him, but it just feels so weird to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boromir88
To wilwa: I've been searching for a new rivalry since Menel's departure. If you want to start re-hashing old fights, bring it, because you know the score so far is Wild Eye 1 - Dark Monarch = Zero
Negative, baddies totally won that game! Dark Monarch = 1, Wild Eye= -50.

Morsul is making me uneasy, he gives all these super long quotes and then like a 1 sentence comment, doesn't seem like much. So keeping my eye on him. Nothing really concrete though I guess.

Eomer is under my radar, which is weird.

Mnemo is acting a bit different then yesterday, but I still don't really feel suspicious of her.

Nog, Mac and Nerwen I'm all good with so far.

Shasta I'm iffy about, a few things seem off (his comment about Brinn's "slip of the tongue" is a little weird), but not really enough to truly suspect.

My vote might be going to Boro, I don't really know yet.

I desperetly need to study for a bit, but I'll come back for about the last 40 minutes before DL, which is in 1.5 hours right???

x'ed with a bunches[/B]

Yeah I do that sometimes :p

Nogrod

12-02-2009, 01:42 PM

Sorry but I had to make a fast late-dinner before continuing...

EDIT: Heh, Morsul seems to have done this already but well... I'll post this anyway.

Lottie -> Lommy (says first she is suspicious but says also she has no reason for suspecting her, then later refers to her two posts without any comment on them and just votes her)
trom -> Boro (“because he's so open about the fact of, 'this isn't the way Boro-wolf would act.'”)
Mnemo -> Pitch (based on her analysis on him)
Nerwen -> Mnemo (she’s gone off the rails on D2 and her “rational reasons” to vote for Pitch are bad)
Brinn -> Lottie (because of her odd vote for Lommy)
Boro -> Inzil (because Inzil’s “case” yesterday was not only weak but faulty and he has dsone nothing today to make Boro change his mind)

No one can't say we are not able to spread votes enough... :rolleyes:

Looking only at toDay's votes Lottie's & Mnemo's votes look the worst - and I must say that Boro's vote is actually a bit "lame" - if you get what I mean. I mean with all his participation, is that the best he can come up with?

Thinlómien

12-02-2009, 01:45 PM

On the vote situation

Lommy-1
Boro-1
Pitch-1
Mnem-1
Loslote-1
Zil-1

It looks really open now (see Nienna, a fellow Captain obvious here ;)) and anyone could get lynched, but of these suggestions...

...I'm obviously against lynching myself.
...I'm also against lynching Boro, because he gives me good vibes by seeming exactly like his normal innocent self.
...I wouldn't be so sorry if Pitch died, because there's something fishy in his posts.
...I would be even less sorry to see Mnemo die because she's actually the one I most feel like voting at the moment.
...I'm hesitant about lynching Loslote, because although she's acting weird, I'd rather hear her explanation first because her behaviour can be accounted for by mere newbieishness, although (as I haven't played recently) I'm not sure if she should be past that phase or not.
...I can't see why people suspect Zil so much.

edit: xed with Nooglewoogle

Inziladun

12-02-2009, 01:46 PM

Despite lingering misgivings about Boro and due to a forced break from Mac, I think Mnemo, Eomer, and Lottie still look the worst to me. I want to re-check Lottie, to see if anything about her strikes me, beyond the obviously flimsy vote for Lommy.

x/d with Lommy

Eomer of the Rohirrim

12-02-2009, 01:49 PM

Boro said:

"I'm pretty sure that wasn't a list of substantial people who disagreed/spoke out against, if it's the post I'm thinking you're thinking ... than I was telling Nerwen all the people who commented on it."

But here's the quotation:

The fact is, Roa wasn't the only one who got on me about it, she was just the loudest one. Inzil, Nerwen, Shasta, Morsul, Pitch, Eomer, and Bes all stated disagreement or suspected me because of it and Nerwen trying to downplay it worries me.

So you'll see, Boro, that you are placing me in a group to which I don't belong. :)

Now to concentrate on my suspicions.

satansaloser2005

12-02-2009, 01:52 PM

All right, Morsul, I see how you could read those statements that way. Maybe. ;)

For the record, although Sally and I totally would do something like that, she doesn't have my password and since it's based on something she'll never read I doubt she could guess it.

I, on the other hand, have hers...

(Seriously, dahling, you probably ought to change that. For all you know I could have been flirting with Legate as you for the past five months!)

...There, is that motivating enough, Lom?

Yes, but dear, if I killed you and stole your computer I wouldn't need your password, you see. Ever-so-helpful Virae (and do accept apologies if I spelled that wrong) would just give it to me. Besides, I'm too lazy to change my password because then I won't remember it. Now be gone with your meta!

Why's everybody so jumpy? Mnemo, for one, as Nerwen pointed out. And Sally too? Who's really been threatening to lynch her? And Mnemo has got about as many defenders as accusers.

Mnemo and Sally's little exchange is interesting. Awkward, sort of, and makes me raise my eyebrows. Not sure what to make of it, though. Sally seems innocent since she continues that joke a bit over the top (I'm not sure if she'd dare to do that as a wolf) but Mnemo is a bit more worrying case. I mean, the carefulness in which she states that Sally can or can not answer is slightly weird...

Wait, someone's accusing me? When did I say that. Oh, that's right. Never. Although I'm (sort of) wondering about why Little Mnemo's being so blabby; she enjoys playing for the sake of it but this seems wrong to me. Unfortunately I simply don't have time to analyze her. :(

Also, when have I not been over the top? :Merisu:

Okay, a list from me will soon be forthcoming. *dashes off to catch up again*

Shastanis Althreduin

12-02-2009, 01:59 PM

I believe he was voting to save Mac and Mnemo not necessarily to kill Zil... does that make sense? ...and Shasta feel free to correct me as I'm speaking about something that might be untrue.

Correct.

++Nerwen

Mnemosyne

12-02-2009, 01:59 PM

So everyone's just been doing lists for the past While, especially vote counts and voter lists... I honestly cannot think of anything to say on those... not till the commitment of an actual VOTE!

Could we please get some more of those, please? It's hard to tell where the game's going otherwise. Not that it matters for me, now...

Can you people tell I hate being unavailable for the last hour? :p

Nogrod

12-02-2009, 02:00 PM

Voting-wise it seems Mnemo has made two quite odd votes.

I don't get Mnemo's suspicion on Pitch that because he posts in "chunks" he's suspicious. Quite a strech - not the first one in this game though...

But I think some of Pitchie's posting does look odd and over-careful - at least yesterDay. Here are two prime examples: Looking at some of our quieter ones.
I'll give credit to Nienna (and to a lesser degree Lottie , as she mostly agreed with Ni)for their early effort to get the game started in earnest. It's not proof of innocence, of course; I could imagine a wolf wanting to appear eager and helpful so as to look like s/he cares about our best interests. On the other hand, it's no proof against them.
I'll lump Lommy, Greenie, Brinn and Eomer together (probably Shasta too), as all of them have shown some activity but not quite enough for me to form a definitive impression. Seen nothing that stands out against any of them. I'd say Eomer makes a little more good points than the rest (to be expected from a veteran of the first hour, as I think he is).
Nerwen - well, I don't know. She's been more controversial than I remember her from other Day 1's. Usually she's more calm, cool, collected, very balanced and sensible to the point of inscrutability, especially early in the game, but I think I've seen her get pointed and - well, not quite passionate, but something in that direction - when the situation seemed to call for it. So, maybe a bit untypical, but 'sinister' is taking it too far, I think.I can't see the point of posting a lot of these... except if one wishes especially to look contributing, well-tuned and friendly and careful not to rub anyone the wrong way...

A Little Green

12-02-2009, 02:00 PM

LEANING INNOCENT:

Boromir88 - I still have a good feeling about him.

Eomer - Seems generally innocentish and makes a lot of sense. He gives a rather calculated impression, though, and I haven't played with him often enough to know if that's a normal state of things or not.

Brinn - Leaning good.

Macalaure - Good vibes.

Thinlómien - Seems her usual flip-floppy self.

NEITHER INNOCENT NOR GUILTY, OR BOTH:

Inziladun - I don't know if it's about him being slippery or me being negligent and careless, but I can't get a read on him even though he contributes a fair deal.

Morsul - No idea.

Pitchwife - My gut says innocent, my logic says "too agreeable, too contributing without rubbing anyone the wrong way, baaaaad". I just realised (and again, may be partly due to my own unfocused reading) that while I remember him posting actively, I can't recall a single thing he's said. It isn't that he hasn't said anything, it's that he hasn't said stuff that would have been contradictory or wrong-feeling or weird or different enough to stick to my memory.

Nienna - Securely under my radar.

Nogrod - Eurgh. He was very very confusing yesterDay. His explanation about his behaviour towards Roa explained some of it. ToDay he has seemed more in his senses. I'll be watching him, but he's off the hook for now.

sally - No idea whatsoever.

Nerwen - I agree with Morsul that she's too darn reasonable. No idea what her role might be.

Bes - Under my radar.

Shasta - No idea, for some reason or another.

wilwa - Too little to go on.

tromkehra - Likewise.

WARY OF:

Mnemosyne - Argh. I think I babbled enough about her in my previous post, but let's shorten it here for clarity's sake: yesterDay she was too agreeable and calculated, toDay she seems more than a bit off.

Loslote - Confuses me a lot. Her suspicions are completely weird, but I'm trying to decide whether it's a sign of wolvery or not.

----

I'm rather worried about the size of my no idea -section. I'd believe, somehow, that at this point of the game I'd have more suspicions, but I don't. I don't know why exactly that is. It's either that my wolf-spotting sucks in this game or we have wolves who are too good for me. It looks as if I'm going to vote Mnemo again. Her, at least, I'm suspicious of.

EDIT: eurgh x-ed with a host... since my previous post, actually. :eek:

Morsul the Dark

12-02-2009, 02:04 PM

Lommy-1
Boro-1
Pitch-1
Mnem-1
Loslote-1
Zil-1
Nerwen-1

What if eveyone gets one vote? then what?:rolleyes:

satansaloser2005

12-02-2009, 02:05 PM

Pancakes. :Merisu:

Anyway, here's a list from me. I limited myself to four wolves and it was really really hard, but there's....well, you can see the categories.

Wolves:
Brinn
Lommie
Nerwen
Eomer

Possible wolves:
Nienna
Nog (meh)
Pitch
Shasta
Greenie
Lottie

Dunno:
Mnemo
Dun (possible possible but was too shifty on him so I put him here)
Morsul
Mac
Boro

Innocent/nothing:
Bes
Kehra
Wilwa
Sally (the former rather than the latter, of course)

EDIT: x'd with 2/3 of the House of Finns and Morsul. Also, I need to check over Lommie and Lottie again because I may have flipped them in my list. I'll check to be sure.

Pitchwife

12-02-2009, 02:08 PM

Nienna and Shasta - I understand voting to save somebody you'd like to keep, but on the other hand, giving somebody else their 2nd or 3rd vote instead with no given case behind it doesn't exactly look obviously innocent to me.
Otherwise, I must say I've nothing against either of you at the moment.

P.S. Just saw Shasta's vote. Is that a classic example of voting those who're too reasonable, or what? *confused*

Morsul the Dark

12-02-2009, 02:08 PM

Trying to find someone else suspicious other than Shasta seeing how the votes clearly aren't going anywhere...:eek:

Thinlómien

12-02-2009, 02:10 PM

So everyone's just been doing lists for the past While, especially vote counts and voter lists... I honestly cannot think of anything to say on those... not till the commitment of an actual VOTE!

Could we please get some more of those, please? If you wish...

++Mnemo

See, now I won't be voting in the last minute.

Although, I hope I won't change my mind since I've had the same top suspect for all Day and most of yesterDay, too.

wilwarin538

12-02-2009, 02:12 PM

For my own thinking purposes I'm re-posting the votes:
Lommy-1
Boro-1
Pitch-1
Mnem-2
Loslote-1
Zil-1
Nerwen-1

uhmm....I'm definitely gonna vote for someone on this list, cause there's no way I'm bringing a number 8 into the mix. Lommy hasn't stood out to me, Boro makes me uneasy so maybe him, Pitch too though after a quick skim through he was iffy too, Mnemo I'm fairly ok with, Lottie haven't really payed attention too, Zil I don't even know why people are suspicious of him, and Nerwen I'm good with.

So between Boro and Pitch I guess, though I'm kinda leaning towards Boro....I'm gonna wait a bit longer since I can be around at DL.

Morsul the Dark

12-02-2009, 02:12 PM

and the tie is broken!

Mnem-2
Lommy-1
Boro-1
Pitch-1
Loslote-1
Zil-1
Nerwen-1

Nogrod

12-02-2009, 02:12 PM

Morsul the Dark

12-02-2009, 02:15 PM

loslote voted for seemingly no reason...
Mnem I have the same suspicions though not sure enough

otherwise Nienna and Shasta and mac on day 1's vote seemed to be working together...

Inziladun

12-02-2009, 02:17 PM

Yes, another long quote.

Okay, I'll have to vote way early. Deadline problems again...and I have no idea who to vote for.

Inzil and Mac don't look furry to me, so I don't think I'll be voting for them.

Morsul is suspicious looking, but then, I always suspect him, mostly because I can't follow his logic.

I've never played with Eomer before, but he seems to be making sense, so I don't think I'd vote for him today unless something extreme happens.

I can't get a read on Boro, despite the 'issue' yesterDay - or maybe because of it.

Brinn is another one I always suspect. This game I think she's good, which worries me...gah. Enough paranoia.

Pitchie looks suspicious, but I don't have anything solid yet. I think I will look more closely at him.

Mnemo doesn't seem furry, but I'm not anywheres near certain, and am not crossing her off the list anytime soon.

I haven't gotten much read on Nienna yet.

Nogrod is the most suspicious yet...but even he doesn't scream wolf...more like whisper it.

Not getting much from Sally, either.

Lommy seems suspicious, but I have no reason for it.

Nerwen looks good. At least, I haven't seen anything that doesn't seem genuine yet.

Bes is new. I don't know his style yet, but he does seem a tad bit off. I'll look at him later, probably not toDay.

I don't think Shasta's a wolf...but I can't quite tell.

Wilwa hasn't been around much due to RL. Understandable.

Haven't picked much up on Greenie yet, either.

Tromkehra's new, too. Can't tell very much, but his (her?) repeated posing in role kind of rankles...but not in a particularly furry way...

That turned into a list. I wasn't actually expecting that. I do lists a lot, don't I?

EDIT: xed with Shasta, Morsul, and Mnemo

So four people were 'suspicious' to her then: Morsul, who she said always looked that way; Pitch, (but nothing 'solid'); Nog, the 'most suspicious yet'; and Lommy (but 'no reason).

She noted Bes looked 'off'. In her next post, 227, Nog, Lommy and Bes looked the most 'wolvish'. Oddly, in 223 she had allowed that Bes was new, and she didn't know his style.

It looks like her suspicion of Nog was based on the way he worded a certain post, and when advised he was not a native English-speaker, she seems to have dismissed him.

And then there was the vote for Lommy with no reason given.

Conclusion: Lottie doesn't look all that good at the moment, especially the way Bes suddenly went from looking a little 'off' (with the allowance that he was new and she didn't know him), to one of her top suspects.

x'd with a host

satansaloser2005

12-02-2009, 02:19 PM

Question: Is Bes in fact a guy? 'Cause I don't know. I thought she was....well, a she, but that's because his/her name was Bes. *shrugs* No idea.

EDIT: Never mind, Bes is a guy. Wow. When I'm wrong....

A Little Green

12-02-2009, 02:19 PM

Now, perhaps you're interpreting this differently to me, but all I did was, soon as I saw Roa's post, literally say out loud: "Ah ha! Intentional miscount!" A split-second reaction that I thought I'd share. Believe it or not but I didn't actually commit to thinking Roa was up to something, hence why I didn't pursue it and actively stated that I thought Roa was likely innocent. I can see why you think that's fanning flames but oh well.Just to get things clear, for I think I'm missing something: you thought she miscounted the number of wolves intentionally yet wasn't up to anything? How's that?

Sally - could you explain your list a bit? Like, why are people where they are on your list? It would be interesting.

EDIT: x-ed with Zil and Sally

Eomer of the Rohirrim

12-02-2009, 02:19 PM

:pLoslote didn't vote yesterday, and her vote for Lommy was obviously strange. I'll be happy to let her explain tomorrow.

Trom's vote for Boro; well Boro has been bletherin' a lot and he's doing the whole "I'm innocent, trust me" thing. He is looking worse than he did yesterday.

Mnemo voted Inziladun yesterday, and switched to Pitch today. She is also guilty of an "I promise you I'm innocent" post.

Nerwen voted Mac yesterday and changed to Mnemo today, which is reasonable as she notes Mnemo's strange posting today. I agree with her suspicion.

Brinn voted Nerwen yesterday, but changed to Loslote today. Also reasonable, giving Loslote's behaviour.

Boro did not vote yesterday and voted Inziladun today.

----------------------------------

I still suspect Mnemo, probably even more than I did yesterday. It's tempting to kill her because, if she is a wolf, it would tell us so much! Shasta and Nienna would be suspects for trying to save her; Inziladun would be innocent (sacrificed to save Mnemo) and Nerwen would also likely be innocent after going strongly against Mnemo today.

I suppose you could make such a point about most people's potential lynching, though. :p

Sorry for picking on you, Mnemo, I'm going to look and see if anyone else deserves my vote more than you. There's always a danger in this game of becoming too set in your ways.

Macalaure

12-02-2009, 02:21 PM

Mac: I'm not suspecting you that heavily (I think you were only the fourth on my list).Downplaying.

That's only 16/19... :DJoking.

I saw it coming:It might have been that you only scanned my posts (yeah, I remember one post in which I didn't really suspect anybody, and did I only picked up one suspicioun (Mnemo) after considering other people's points), but considering how suspicious you have been of me all of toDay, and how often you refer to me in other people's suspicion comments, I won't buy that.

He pretty much reacts the way a wolf reacts after he realised that the shoddy reasons with which he attacked an innocent blew up and came to haunt him.

Name count from Nogrod's suspicion summary #233 (the actual summary only):
Mac 8, Inzil 6, Mnemo 4, Pitch 3, rest less.
Your suspicion of me takes a quite cardinal position in your thinking right now, no matter where you actually rank me. This in connection with your bad case against me is very suspicious.

I think I crossed with a whole page... now who to vote for?

Nogrod

12-02-2009, 02:21 PM

Okay. Looking at the list of votes gives me a few possibilities.

Mnemo's voting looks especially weird and she's not the easy-going voice of reason she was in the early part of D1 - when not yet suspected.

Pitch for being such a nice one taking care not to rub anyone the wrong way but still making an impression he's at it all the time and considers things for the good of us all.

Nerwen I'm just having bad gut feelings and if I have time I'll try and look back for her a little bit to see whether my suspicions are valid or not (I wouldn't like to vote her with just this bad feeling).

Lottie's vote is just plain odd and kind of scandalous, but is it evil as well? A tough call...

satansaloser2005

12-02-2009, 02:22 PM

Sally - could you explain your list a bit? Like, why are people where they are on your list? It would be interesting.

I was actually just going to get to that, so no worries. Some of it is mostly feelings, I'll admit, but I'm going to explain a good chunk.

Must make a couple calls first though, alas. Back soon.

EDIT: x'd with Mac and Nog, whom I agree with rather splendidly (Nog that is).

Pitchwife

12-02-2009, 02:25 PM

*What me and Greenie just said* Yeah. I know. Can't help it. I mean besides not liking their votes, I went looking for anything else that stood out as suspicious and found nothing. Sorry for saying so.:rolleyes:

Thinlómien

12-02-2009, 02:26 PM

Mac is getting weird and jumpy. (Ha! Fourth jumpy wolf!) Nog, on the other hand, seems more reasonable.

Only the fact that Mnemo is gathering more and more suspicion is making me doubtful: like I've been telling people who never listen to me (:p), if someone who is not shouting a wolf is lynched with too much of a consensus s/he's probably an innocent.

edit: xed with Pitchfork

Nienna

12-02-2009, 02:27 PM

I'm probably going to vote Lommy unless something major happens.

A Little Green

12-02-2009, 02:27 PM

I was actually just going to get to that, so no worries. Some of it is mostly feelings, I'll admit, but I'm going to explain a good chunk.Cool. Other than that, well, I have an exam tomorrow and I want to check my notes before bed, so I'll probably vote in a minute (not literally). I might be tempted to hang around until deadline, though, just because it's so soon.. :rolleyes:

EDIT: x-ed since Sally

Nogrod

12-02-2009, 02:28 PM

Mac, you're really too touchy this time around...

Morsul the Dark

12-02-2009, 02:33 PM

Mnem-2
Loslote-2
Lommy-1
Boro-1
Pitch-1
Zil-1
Nerwen-1

++Loslote

Her vote today was way out there considering she did a list of his posts with no rel negative remarks on it....

this list includes my vote

Macalaure

12-02-2009, 02:34 PM

Skimmed 2 pages, barely found anything worth commenting on. Maybe on a reread tomorrow. I'm getting vague bad vibes from Eomer, but can't go after that now.

Fair catch

No, not a fair catch. If you accuse someone of not suspecting many people it means you have to look at all of their posts. Picking one is shoddy.

Jumpy? Touchy? *shrug* whatever...

Jesus, the voting is all over the place. :rolleyes:

Mnemo leading by 2 over half the village with 1. Mnemo actually sounds like a ok choice to me.

wilwarin538

12-02-2009, 02:35 PM

K, so for a bit I thought I might go with Pitch, but I've decided it'd be best for me to stick with Boro as previously stated:

++Boro

And now I must study for realz...

Eomer of the Rohirrim

12-02-2009, 02:36 PM

There's a ridiculous smiley at the start of my last post. I'm sure one of you put it there, somehow... Please ignore it (I won't edit my post for fear of being labelled a cheat).

So many posts: I really need to start taking notes during the night phases!

Morsul the Dark

12-02-2009, 02:36 PM

Mnem-2
Loslote-2
Boro-2
Lommy-1
Pitch-1
Zil-1
Nerwen-1

astounding vote list!:p:rolleyes::D

Nogrod

12-02-2009, 02:37 PM

I really need to start taking notes during the night phases!You're that sure you'll wake up alive, now how come? :p

A Little Green

12-02-2009, 02:39 PM

++ Mnemo

Going after my top suspect, since nothing devastating has happened. Check for reasons in my previous posts, I've ranted enough about her there. I might or might not post again toDay, I'm awful tired and need to wake up early so I think I'm going to bed...

satansaloser2005

12-02-2009, 02:39 PM

Just copying my list and adding explanations.

Wolves:
Brinn: for reasons stated in my analysis post
Lommie: for just plain weirdness and not being ordo-Lommie like, and also for (in my eyes) trying to make me (and others) look jumpy who aren't; opportunistic
Nerwen: bad feeling and her vote yesterDay
Eomer: I keep forgetting about him and that's never good with him (really he could be moved down into the possible category but I needed a fourth and couldn't convince myself there'd be an all-female wolf pack again)

Possible wolves:
Nienna: don't like her vote and she looks too strange to me
Nog (meh): he's acting a bit strange but I really can't say either way
Pitch: another bad vibe, to be honest; I had evidence but can't remember what it was right now, so basically he's just acting strange and I don't like it
Shasta: rather the same as Lommie; grasping at straws for guilt
Greenie: another vibe
Lottie: acting shifty and with her votes and posting I don't trust her

Dunno:
Mnemo: she's actually moved up to the possible category now because she seems to be getting too buddy-buddy with me and while I love my duck (wow, that's lame, I can't find a good VeggieTales video for that) I can't help but feel something's wrong there
Dun (possible possible but was too shifty on him so I put him here): just another bit of shiftiness and I don't trust him on principle because he's sneaky
Morsul: no feelings one way or the other
Mac: seemed sincere enough yesterDay but can't decide, and now he's getting very strange so I'll have to take a look at him yet again
Boro: again, no feelings, although he seems to be a bit....don't know, but I want to take another look at him

Innocent/nothing:
Bes
Kehra
Wilwa
Sally (the former rather than the latter, of course)

Morsul the Dark

12-02-2009, 02:39 PM

You're that sure you'll wake up alive, now how come? :p

good point sir, eh eomer

Morsul the Dark

12-02-2009, 02:41 PM

Mnem-3
Loslote-2
Boro-2
Lommy-1
Pitch-1
Zil-1
Nerwen-1

Eomer of the Rohirrim

12-02-2009, 02:42 PM

Hi Nienna, are you going to analyse Nerwen?

Macalaure

12-02-2009, 02:43 PM

Lottie -> Lommy (major eyeroll)
Kehra -> Boro (minor eyeroll)
Mnemo -> Pitch (don't like her cases much)
Nerwen -> Mnemo (trusting Nerwen at the moment, making me feel better about most probably following this vote)
Brinn -> Lottie (going after the weird one is not always the best thing to do)
Boro -> Inzil (I think Boro is a little off with some of his suspicion...)
Shasta -> Nerwen (so is Shasta)
Lommy -> Mnemo(2) (I don't know where to place Lommy in this game...)
Morsul -> Lottie(2) (same as Brinn)
Wilwa -> Boro(2) (not good, methinks)
Green -> Mnemo(3) (another person I trust going for Mnemo)

Actually, why wait now.

++Mnemosyne

Mac -> Mnemo(4)

satansaloser2005

12-02-2009, 02:43 PM

Nienna

12-02-2009, 02:45 PM

Hi Nienna, are you going to analyse Nerwen?

Sorry! I ran out of time. It takes me a super long time to do those. ToMorrow if we are both alive.

Inziladun

12-02-2009, 02:45 PM

At this point, it looks like a vote for Eomer would be a waste, so that leaves it down to Mnemo and Lottie.

Mnemo has looked downright bizarre toDay. So much so, in fact, that it's hard for me to see a wolf acting that way.
Then again, I don't think I've ever seen her as a wolf, and the change in tone from yesterDay to toDay has been notable.

Lottie's vote was unexplained, and there are inconsistencies in her remarks toDay.

Hmmm.

Thinlómien

12-02-2009, 02:47 PM

So for what it's worth I'd really prefer Brinn or Lommie, but at the current rate I'd probably go for Lottie since it seems there's no chance of lynching Brinn (so far) and I'm convinced yet completely torn at the same time on the Lommie front.
I'm still here if you need me to answer any questions or anything...

And I won't really protest if you guys lynch Lottie but if she's an innocent I'm not going to be surprised. *:rolleyes: at self*

I kind of agree with Mac that Wilwa's Boro-vote looks bad, but then again, Wilwa seems innocent enough otherwise.

edit: xed with Nienna and Zil

Pitchwife

12-02-2009, 02:47 PM

otherwise Nienna and Shasta and mac on day 1's vote seemed to be working together...
Nope. Mac clearly voted in self-defense, and after having suspected Zil for most of the Day (not with any reasons that convinced me, but still). I'm still unsatisfied about Nienna's and Shasta's votes, but Mac's is the most understandable of the three.
À propos, I'm not that confident anymore about the reasons I voted Mac yesterDay - not enough to vote him again, I mean. At least part of them were apparently based on misunderstanding his statements, and what he's said toDay looks OK. Let's see how he carries on.

I'd rather vote MnemotoDay. I don't like either of her votes. One with no given reason at all but 'vibes', the other with reasons that look much too fabricated. (All right, I'm not exactly impartial in the last case...) And suspecting people because they play too much like herself. Plus I get really really tired of being suspected for my style of thinking and posting. (That goes to you as well, Nog. You said much the same things about me last game, and we know what you were then.)
Therefore,
++Mnemo

satansaloser2005

12-02-2009, 02:47 PM

Eomer of the Rohirrim

12-02-2009, 02:47 PM

Nogrod, you know fine well that's like saying "I could be hit by a bus tomorrow: so I'm not going to bother making any plans!" :p I've been basically glued to my screen this evening looking through stuff, half of which could probably have been done yesterday. It's quite a drain on my time (lucky Cailin's not in tonight or I'd be in trouble).

Pitchwife, there's been a fair bit of gender-confusion in this game - I rather like my obvious name - but I presumed you were female. No-one else seems to. Help me out? :)

Nienna

12-02-2009, 02:47 PM

Sally... what does Strange mean... :rolleyes: this seems to happen to me all the time... :(

Shastanis Althreduin

12-02-2009, 02:47 PM

And this is why I tend to wait until the last second to vote - my vote is basically useless and I hate making useless votes. :rolleyes:

satansaloser2005

12-02-2009, 02:50 PM

Sally... what does Strange mean... this seems to happen to me all the time... :(

*pets you*

Lommie, no questions right now, but thanks. And Eomer, Pitch is in fact a guy. Or was last time we asked. :eek::rolleyes:

Macalaure

12-02-2009, 02:50 PM

I kind of agree with Mac that Wilwa's Boro-vote looks bad, but then again, Wilwa seems innocent enough otherwise.

I didn't even mean that - not enough time to look at it closely. Just didn't like it to see someone I think is innocent so close to the top.

Inziladun

12-02-2009, 02:51 PM

Ok..

++Lottie

Strange as Mnemo looks, the tide against her seems to have a bandwaggonish feel.

wilwarin538

12-02-2009, 02:52 PM

I kind of agree with Mac that Wilwa's Boro-vote looks bad, but then again, Wilwa seems innocent enough otherwise.

I don't get why you would think so. I've been pretty consistent with my suspicion of him, and though it may not be a strong case I did give ample reasoning. And I voted at a time when practically everyone else had only 1 vote, therefore not bandwagonning or bringing more people into the mix. So I don't see the problem.

satansaloser2005

12-02-2009, 02:52 PM

Ok..

++Lottie

Strange as Mnemo looks, the tide against her seems to have a bandwaggonish feel.

I'll second that. Well, the vote, that is. I think I'd be happy either way.

++Lottie

Nogrod

12-02-2009, 02:52 PM

My gut-feeling actually agrees with Mac on Lottie's weirdness being probably less suspicious wolf-wise than Mnemo's...

Okay, a (relatively)newbie-wolf trying to exit looking like she was actually doing something to back her vote but fell drastically short. That kind of half-measure would actually be more believable coming from someone who is not making a hard judgement for real but just has to exit with voting someone... Well that just might make sense as well.

Hmm... A hard decision indeed as Mnemo clearly has been quite suspicious as long as she has been under some pressure...

Pitchwife

12-02-2009, 02:52 PM

Pitchwife, there's been a fair bit of gender-confusion in this game - I rather like my obvious name - but I presumed you were female. No-one else seems to. Help me out? :)
They don't presume so because they've played with me before and know better. But it happens to me all the time.

Nienna

12-02-2009, 02:53 PM

++ Lommy

and I'm not terribly sure where this Lottie-wagon came from...

Morsul the Dark

12-02-2009, 02:54 PM

Mnem-5
Loslote-4
Boro-2
Lommy-1
Pitch-1
Zil-1
Nerwen-1

Thinlómien

12-02-2009, 02:54 PM

Wilwa, the problem, I guess, is that I happen to think Boro's innocent. And your self-consciousness ("I have been pretty consistent" etc) is kind of creepy.

edit: xed with Nienna and Morsul

Morsul the Dark

12-02-2009, 02:54 PM

Mnem-5
Loslote-4
Boro-2
Lommy-2
Pitch-1
Zil-1
Nerwen-1

Macalaure

12-02-2009, 02:55 PM

We've been tapping through the knowledgeless dark for two days. How much are we going to learn from Lottie's role if she's innocent? Mnemo's role would reveal some things in every case. :(

Eomer of the Rohirrim

12-02-2009, 02:55 PM

Sorry! I ran out of time. It takes me a super long time to do those. ToMorrow if we are both alive.

I just found it interesting that of all the people in the expedition, you choose to analyse 3 people (only managing to do 2) and one of them was Shasta, who you are accused of teaming up with to save Mnemo/kill Inziladun. Your conclusion of him is, well, see for yourself:

"In Summary: I’m not sure why he was ringing alarm bells for me… he seems to be making reasonable points, his thing about Brinn was a stretch but he knows that… I’m going to just have to keep watching him."

Oh aye? :p

Nogrod

12-02-2009, 02:57 PM

Interersting vote Nienna... I hope you can explain that hand-washing toMorrow...

Okay. I'll stick to

++ Mnemo

Mac has a good point on her death telling us more than Lottie's.

satansaloser2005

12-02-2009, 02:57 PM

++ Lommy

and I'm not terribly sure where this Lottie-wagon came from...

From a place deep within me that none shall ever know. :Merisu:

Thinlómien

12-02-2009, 02:57 PM

Good points, Mac and Eomer. (Wow, that was Scottish. :p)

Mnemo's still on the lead...

edit: xed with Nog and Saltwater-Sally

Bes

12-02-2009, 02:58 PM

I won't be voting today; I can't conscientiously do so, because I just got in and need to read all of pages 7 thru 11 yet, with 5 minutes to go. I still suspect Mac, but not any more or less than Nog and Pitch. Without a minute or 30 to look at their replies, it would be kind of a crappy vote to make a second time around. Also, so much for my plan to write up additional analysis. :(

If I'm still here (I haven't looked at the votes yet even) on Day 3, then I'll definitely have something to post up.

satansaloser2005

12-02-2009, 02:58 PM

We've been tapping through the knowledgeless dark for two days. How much are we going to learn from Lottie's role if she's innocent? Mnemo's role would reveal some things in every case. :(

This is a good point, to be honest. Hence I'd be happy either way. And in meta-land, it'll make seeing Mnemo this weekend a lot easier if one of us is dead. ;)

Eomer of the Rohirrim

12-02-2009, 02:59 PM

Morsul the Dark

12-02-2009, 02:59 PM

Mnem-7
Loslote-4
Boro-2
Lommy-2
Pitch-1
Zil-1
Nerwen-1

ok 8 hours straight I need the deadline so I can actuall leave the computer....:p

satansaloser2005

12-02-2009, 02:59 PM

Good points, Mac and Eomer. (Wow, that was Scottish. :p)

Mnemo's still on the lead...

edit: xed with Nog and Saltwater-Sally

Bwah?

Legate of Amon Lanc

12-02-2009, 03:00 PM

DEADLINE! Stop posting everybody.

All right... summary with the announcement of the lynchee's role coming in a while (just after I for myself properly check the votes), narration itself in a bit later time (hopefully in an hour or two).

Night 3 begins! Werewolves, you can send me your kill at last. Ranger, you can send me your pick too. Everybody, stop posting. Nightly people of course start PMing.

satansaloser2005

12-02-2009, 03:00 PM

++MNEMO

Have at it. She was suspicious yesterday and she's been a bit odd today. Her "I almost hope you do kill me to see how innocent I am" post is the Ice-ing on the cake.

Yas min, one last ice pun min! :smokin:

*headdesks* See if I do anything to help you later. The Ice Man cometh (for you toNight, I hope. ;))

EDIT: I've undoubtedly x'd with Legate.

Legate of Amon Lanc

12-02-2009, 03:07 PM

Mnemo is lynched and she was... your first Werewolf.

So no posting here now; like I said, narration coming in a while; those who have Nightly activities, you may perform them.

Legate of Amon Lanc

12-02-2009, 04:42 PM

The night of December 2nd/3rd. That night will remain in my memory forever. And also the imprint of the images of horror I saw will remain in my memory until I die.

Throughout the day, our discussion has improved greatly in terms of professional approach, as far as we could consider ourselves "investigators" and as far as I can judge. We were no longer groping in the dark and it looked as if we had a purpose. Yet there was still the prevailing gloomy attitude, reflecting the recent events which took place aboard our ship. To the general depression was added the fact that during most of the day there was utmost darkness all around. Sun would never rise above the horizon, but around 6 AM very faint light could be seen in the south, and around 10, slight glow will illuminate the frozen landscape. Two hours later, there will be again darkness, and the temperatures falling down past twenty below zero.

This time we were more one-minded in our decision, and various evidence made us suspect our field medic. I do not know if we would have had the strength of will to attempt to seize her if we knew what is going to happen.

I can offer no scientific explanation to what had happened afterwards. When our survival guide came forwards to lead our medic to the compartment where the night before our meteorologist was being kept, the medic refused and seemed ready to put up violent resistance. Despite our persuasion and appeals to her reason, she remained obstinate. Then our survival guide took out a gun and pointed it at her.

What followed I could hardly describe without shivering when I recall that moment. Our field medic had hurled herself against the survival guide, but there was something different - something unnatural - something hideous, bewildering our scientific minds. For how could a woman's nails suddenly turn into long black claws, burrowing into our survival guide's flesh? How could her teeth become sharp fangs, biting deep into her neck? It took but a few seconds, but it seemed to us like minutes. Then a shot rang. Our survival guide, holding her gun up when the other woman attacked her, pressed the trigger. Even at that time, I could recall well how she has been explaining cheerfully to us, on the first day of our ill-fated journey, that she was always carrying her gun with her - "I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have one", that's what she said - and now a bullet from that gun went right through our field medic's chest.

Both women fell to the deck. Instantly we knelt around our survival guide to see if anything could be done to help. Yet her wounds were deep. We tried all we could to stop the loss of blood, but as far as we could tell, her arteries have been penetrated, and none of us had enough skill in first aid. Maybe had our medic been alive, she could have saved our guide's life. But she was not alive anymore - in fact, she was not there at all. A body of a gray-furred wolf, stained with blood, lay motionless on the deck next to her victim.

LIVING MEMBERS OF THE EXPEDITION:

Inziladun - meteorologist
Boromir88 - senior assistant to a professor of glaciology
Eomer of the Rohirrim - sea pilot
Loslote - rich funder's spoiled daughter
Morsul - federal grants lawyer
Brinn - polar bear biologist
Pitchwife - marine biologist
Nienna - navigator
Nogrod - old palaeoecologist with is own theory of climate change
Macalaure - palaeomathematician
sally - the original initiator of the expedition
Thinlómien - whale expert
Nerwen - mechanic
Bes - room/store manager
Shasta - sled-dog handler
wilwa - crewmember
Greenie - senior assitant to important scientists in the company
tromkehra - cook/bartender

DEAD:
Roa - survival guide - died on blood loss from Werewolf attack on Day 2 (left game, innocent)
Mnemosyne - field medic - shot by the survival guide on Day 2 (Werewolf)

Legate of Amon Lanc

12-03-2009, 03:00 PM

What is a man of science supposed to do in a situation like this? That was what we were asking ourselves. What occured right in front of our eyes did not make any sense at all. We could have, of course, come up with several explanations. Mass hallucination attributed to stress from the previous events and the unfavourable climate. Psychological effects of long stay on the ship. Several people told me at once that they feel like being in the middle of a disturbing dream and that they feel like they must wake up in a moment. Yet the events were too real to be dismissed like that. We have witnessed something incredible, and we had to cope with that.

Most of us, though, in the end voiced the opinion that it is the best if we all get some rest first. I am not sure if we would have been able to fall asleep, anyway, in spite of the late hour, but we at least tried. But it was obvious that most of us were in shock - more in shock than afraid, perhaps, because had we been afraid, we would have never separated and went to our rooms - and once again, things would have probably taken a very different course. But the event was just so incredible that we could not believe it was true unless we gained some perspective first.

And so after taking care of the dead bodies we went to our rooms. I could not fall asleep at all - so after barely half an hour of laying in the dark, reviving my old habits from the college, I put the light on and started to scribble into my diary the account of the previous days.

And so it was that I have been awake when the sound came from the cargo compartement, a sound of banging and then a loud human scream. And then silence. When I opened the door of my cabin, I saw an empty corridor, but the door to the cargo compartment ajar and for a brief moment, I thought I glimpsed a silhouette of a human disappearing in the stairwell. But before I reached it, door banging echoed through the whole deck and soon all the other crewmembers started to appear, apparently also awakened by the noise. Together we moved closer to the cargo compartment. Together we entered. And together we saw the mutilated body of no one other than our meteorologist, lying on the floor in a pool of blood.

If some of us have passed the shock of seeing our field medic transform into a completely different species and hoped that the horror has stopped with her death, their hopes have been shattered at that very moment. The deep wounds on the dead man's body were the same as we saw on our survival guide's body the evening before.

LIVING MEMBERS OF THE EXPEDITION:

Boromir88 - senior assistant to a professor of glaciology
Eomer of the Rohirrim - sea pilot
Loslote - rich funder's spoiled daughter
Morsul - federal grants lawyer
Brinn - polar bear biologist
Pitchwife - marine biologist
Nienna - navigator
Nogrod - old palaeoecologist with is own theory of climate change
Macalaure - palaeomathematician
sally - the original initiator of the expedition
Thinlómien - whale expert
Nerwen - mechanic
Bes - room/store manager
Shasta - sled-dog handler
wilwa - crewmember
Greenie - senior assitant to important scientists in the company
tromkehra - cook/bartender - innocent (left the game - edited 1:45 h after DL)

DEAD:
Roa - survival guide - died on blood loss from Werewolf attack on Day 2 (left game, innocent)
Mnemosyne - field medic - shot by the survival guide on Day 2 (Werewolf)
Inziladun - meteorologist - killed by Werewolves on Night 3 (innocent, also a would-be lynchee of Day 1)

Day 3 has started. Werewolves, Ranger and Hunter, stop PMing. Expedition people, start talking.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

12-03-2009, 03:04 PM

Inziladun, eh? Makes sense, insofar as he was proven innocent by Mnemo's guilt. Here is a little note I typed soon as I saw Legate's post about Mnemo's wolvery.

----------------------------------------------

Green: probably innocent, voted Mnemo first.

Eomer: definitely innocent, put Mnemo in lead.

Lommy: definitely innocent, put Mnemo onto 3 votes.

Mac: possibly guilty, said he'd prefer Inzi over Mnemo a lot. Maybe too strong and incriminating for a wolf? Also, highly suspicious of Mnemo next day. PROBABLY INNOCENT.

Shasta: guilty? tried to save Mnemo

Nienna: guilty? ditto

Inzi: innocent, sacrificed to save Mnemo on first day and Mnemo also suspected him the day after, after he already had a lot of votes.

Nerwen: probably innocent, strongly against Mnemo on second day.

Pitch: innocent? voted for by Mnemo at start of day two.

Wilwa: guilty? when votes are 1 each for lots of people, wilwa defends Mnemo.

Nogrod: innocent? seems critical of Mnemo

Sally: guilty? also doesn't want to vote Mnemo

Nienna tried to save Mnemo again by killing Loslote. GUILTY

---------------------------------------------

I think the wolves are in cr-ice-is.

Pitchwife

12-03-2009, 03:22 PM

Green: probably innocent, voted Mnemo first.
Eomer: definitely innocent, put Mnemo in lead.
Lommy: definitely innocent, put Mnemo onto 3 votes.
Wait a moment, that's not what I saw.
Mnemo-voters in order of appearance:
Nerwen (1)
Lommy (2)
Greenie (3)
Mac (4)
Pitch (5)
Nog (6)
Eomer (7)
You call that putting her in the lead? I'd say your vote was rather a safe one - after Nog's Mnemo was pretty much dead meat.
That's saying nothing against the rest of your conclusions, of course.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

12-03-2009, 03:24 PM

On Day One, Pitch. Probably should have been clearer.

Pitchwife

12-03-2009, 03:30 PM

OK, I might have thought of that. Thanks for the clarification.

Boromir88

12-03-2009, 03:35 PM

Now there's the Eomer I love seeing, aggressive and straight to the point. Going to take a gander and see if there's a possibility of wolf-on-wolf voting, and then just general interaction between Mnemo and everyone else.

satansaloser2005

12-03-2009, 03:38 PM

Eomer of the Rohirrim

12-03-2009, 03:42 PM

The only potential wolf-on-wolf votes I see, Boro, are Mac and Nogrod; but from their questioning of Mnemo earlier in the day (i.e. before she shot into the lead) I tend to think it's unlikely.

Pitchwife

12-03-2009, 03:46 PM

Further minor nitpicking on your list, Eomer: Nienna voted Lommy, not Loslote (and expressly stated concern about the Lottie-bandwagon). I made the same mistake when taking notes yesterDay and had to correct it.
Doesn't mean she couldn't have still been voting to save Mnemo, of course, but less likely to work - her vote vor Lommy was only the 2nd, while Mnemo had 5 at the time and Lottie 4, so Lommy was less likely to be lynched in Mnemo's stead than Lottie. If you and Nog had voted differently, maybe... but do you think she expected you to?

Shastanis Althreduin

12-03-2009, 03:48 PM

Well, Mnemo fooled me. :( A point, I guess, against voting to save someone - not that I've changed my stance on that, anyway. I'm going to go read over Day 2, now that we've got something to go on. Back in a bit.

Nienna

12-03-2009, 03:49 PM

Eomer: I'm on your list twice... I assume you are doing Day One and Day Two votes (or the one's you think are important). I do regret on Day One voting to try and save Mnemo but I had no way to know she was a wolf and she hadn't been acting suspicious in my view. Mac was also more ahead of Mnemo and I was more concerned with saving him... though for all I know he could be a wolf too. On Day Two I voted for Lommy not for Lottie because Lommy looked the most suspicious of me. I did wonder where all the Lottie voting was coming from but I was not trying to save Mnemo.

I'm going to look at the Lottie voters because she was the closest thing the wolves had to save Mnemo. I'd bet that there are at least 2 wolves in her wagon.

Edit: x-ed

Eomer of the Rohirrim

12-03-2009, 03:50 PM

Don't think so, Eomer, and you're putting words in my mouth; I said I was perfectly happy with Mnemo getting killed, I just didn't have a preference between the top two lynchees.

Actually, Sally, when Mnemo had 3 votes, and her nearest rival had 2 votes, you posted:

"So for what it's worth I'd really prefer Brinn or Lommie, but at the current rate I'd probably go for Lottie since it seems there's no chance of lynching Brinn (so far) and I'm convinced yet completely torn at the same time on the Lommie front."

(You posted at the exact same moment as Macalaure, who pushed Mnemo onto 4 votes) So not even mentioning Mnemo there, and listing 3 other suspects.

Mnemo then gets onto 5 votes, her fate looks close to sealed, and you claim that you'd be happy with either her or Loslote dying. You vote Loslote.

So, as I'm sure you'll understand, you do look pretty suspicious. :)

Eomer of the Rohirrim

12-03-2009, 03:55 PM

Apologies Nienna! You and Pitch are, of course, correct. I think I was confusing your vote with Sally's (too many white avatars on this site).

Sorry for the confusion. Now I need to see if this makes you less suspicious. :p

Nogrod

12-03-2009, 04:02 PM

Well, wolves can vote wolves, even in tight situations and innocents can vote innocents. But I'm leaning towards agreeing with Eomer's approach. At least I think it's pretty safe to take it as our first guideline for toDay's search.

So can we read from the votings?

Nienna's votes look the worst as she has tried to save Mnemo two Days in a row. The only thing that bothers me there is why she voted for Lommy and not Lottie yesterDay (she could have made it 5-5)? Maybe she thought it would have been too obvious... but not taking sides at that point between the two only real candidates would look bad anyway...

Sally brought Lottie back to offer some real competiton (but helped by Inzil who was innocent). So that's a bit trickier one to assess.

Mnemo's quite early vote for Pitch yesterDay (as there were some suspicions going his way) makes me think Pitch a bit more innocent than not. It's not conclusive by any means but would make sense.

Overall I tend to think that Mnemo voters look better. Especially good would be Lommy who really was seriously lynching Mnemo both Days and Greenie who has also voted for her twice. Mac and Pitch look rather good as well as they gave Mnemo fourth and fifth vote yesterDay (while the closest contender was at two votes).

Nerwen's vote is the first to Mnemo and a bit more safe to place if she were in cahoots with her, but looking at her strong suspicions on her I tend to think her more on the good side.

Eomer is a bit harder one to call. He has actually voted Mnemo twice but on Day2 his vote had no real meaning anymore and on D1, even if he was putting Mnemo in the lead giving her the second vote, I wouldn't call it definitively innocent (loads of votes still to come at that point and only giving the second one). What makes me be a bit cautious here is the fact that on D1 he said he was "gambling with" his vote and now he portrays himself as the "definitive innocent"... Or then it's just vanity? :)

Anyway. Based on that I would say that to me the six:
Lommy
Greenie
Mac
Pitch
Nerwen
Eomer
appear quite good. Although I would be a bit surprised if there was no wolf in there. :eek:

And after repeating that Nienna looks pretty bad indeed, that leaves me still with eight people of whom one or two ar wolves - okay could be three but I just don't believe it, at least yet. So we have quite a work to do anyway.

EDIT: X'd with quite much everyone after Eomer's first post...

Nogrod

12-03-2009, 04:06 PM

I'm going to look at the Lottie voters because she was the closest thing the wolves had to save Mnemo. I'd bet that there are at least 2 wolves in her wagon.But if Lottie is a wolf as well? It would have been an interestingly nightmarish situation for a wolf to be? :rolleyes:

Actually, we should not dismiss that option either. I mean Lottie's vote yesterDay was weird and off...

Eomer of the Rohirrim

12-03-2009, 04:08 PM

Innocent

Eomer of the Rohirrim
Pitchwife
Thinlómien
Nerwen
Greenie

Probably innocent

Nogrod
Macalaure

Unsure

Boromir88
Loslote
Morsul
Brinn
Bes
tromkehra

Split their skulls to see if evil lurks within?

sally
Shasta
wilwa
Nienna (but her last of all, because of my incorrect and highly impolite slight on her today ;) )

Pitchwife

12-03-2009, 04:09 PM

I did wonder where all the Lottie voting was coming from
Me too. She didn't look too good yesterDay, but I remember seeing her play in a very similar way before when she was innocent; the first time around, I voted her for it and have since been wary to make the same mistake again.
I'd still very much appreciate her to improve somewhat toDay.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

12-03-2009, 04:14 PM

What makes me be a bit cautious here is the fact that on D1 he said he was "gambling with" his vote and now he portrays himself as the "definitive innocent"... Or then it's just vanity? :)

Ok, I'll change it to say that, to all of you, I should appear as probably innocent.

To me, of course, I am definitely innocent.

Remember the early days, when some of us would reference ourselves in lists as: definitely innocent, impeccably honest and true, and pretty darn handsome too, if I may say so; so handsome, in fact, that were he a wolf, he would have been murdered a long time ago by a pack of envious lupine males.

These days are not over.

Morsul the Dark

12-03-2009, 04:21 PM

I just realized I won't be available tomorrow at all so I have to vote now but it's not really fair to vote for anyone without more information so avoid being ModFired

++Morsul

Pitchwife

12-03-2009, 04:25 PM

but not taking sides at that point between the two only real candidates would look bad anyway...
That depends on your (or everybody's) personal Werewolf credo. I see your point, of course, but if somebody has no strong feelings or reasons for or against either of the top candidates, but a grounded suspicion against a third person, I think it's totally understandable and legitimate for them to follow their conscience and vote that person instead.

Boromir88

12-03-2009, 04:34 PM

The only potential wolf-on-wolf votes I see, Boro, are Mac and Nogrod; but from their questioning of Mnemo earlier in the day (i.e. before she shot into the lead) I tend to think it's unlikely.

In general I tend to think that wolves don't plan to go kamikaze early on. Even though if there are 4 of them, this is a large group of scientists, and scheming to lose a wolf on the 1st-lynch makes wolf-on-wolf less likely. I think those who did defend her, and even vote to lynch someone else (Lottie) should be under serious suspicion, but being obvious again...an innocent could have been blinded by Mnemo's wolvery. All those who defended and have suspicious votes to get someone else lynched, I'm expecting full details for your reasons.

However, be aware of the different situation. For the sake of unconfusion, I'm calling yesterday Day 2, and the previous Day 1. On Day 1, Mnemo acquired 3-votes, so it is likely they all recognized she was going to be in possible danger. So, going into Day 2, even though there was no lynch, she and her buddies knew she could be a viable lynch. Therefor, I find it more likely that a wolf could have voted for her, or applied suspicion on her at some point in the day, in an attempt to make him/herself look better. Don't forget that Mac acquired 4 votes, and Nog was under growing suspicion for him going after Roa, so just because they mentions bad feelings about her earlier, that to me does not let them off the hook. Depending upon their votes for now a known wolf, it might, but this is a different situation due to no Day-1 lynch.

For my vote against Inzil, I know I didn't get the chance to explain it greatly due to time, but to answer I believe Nog (and Mac) for it looking rather sloppy. It was. I realized that I spent more of the day trying to start eliminating people as wolves, trying to figure out people I could trust, and not enough on who I thought were wolves. By the time I turned my attention, I was getting pressed for time, and I would say I was more suspicious of Eomer than Inzil, but I didn't want to vote for Eomer based on a snap judgement of beginning to suspect him. I thought he should be able to answer, what earlier yesterday and today I was suspicious of Inzil, he had not answered my suspicions, thus my vote.

Today, with a wolf bagged and in exchange they only got an ordo (RIP beneath the ice Inzil, but I would gladly make that trade anyday), I've got more pep in my step, and you can expect better out of me.

Nienna

12-03-2009, 04:45 PM

Lottie --> Lommy
Trom --> Boro
Mnemo --> Pitchwife
Nerwen --> Mnemo
Brinn --> Lottie
Boro --> Zil
Shasta --> Nerwen
Lommy --> Mnemo
Morsul --> Lottie
Wilwa --> Boro (2)
Greenie --> Mnemo
Mac --> Mnemo
Pitchwife --> Mnemo
Zil --> Lottie
Sally --> Lottie (4)
Nienna --> Lommy (2)
Nog --> Mnemo
Eomer --> Mnemo (7)

Here's yesterDay's voting for easy access.

Shastanis Althreduin

12-03-2009, 04:46 PM

I just realized I won't be available tomorrow at all so I have to vote now but it's not really fair to vote for anyone without more information so avoid being ModFired

++Morsul

I don't think missing one vote will get you modfired, Morsul, just FYI. :)

satansaloser2005

12-03-2009, 04:48 PM

Nogrod

12-03-2009, 04:49 PM

Okay. My "remaining eight" then (just their votes as I have not time for more right now).

In the order of their voting yesterDay...

Lottie - does not vote on D1, makes the odd vote for Lommy ("I suspect but don't have a reason", then refers two Lommy's posts and just votes her) on D2.

trom - does not vote on D1, but makes a decent argument for voting Boro (because he keeps saying the way he acts is not the way a Boro-wolf would act) on D2.

Brinn - votes Nerwen for bandwaggoning (ideas, not votes) on D1 and Lottie (because of her terrible vote on Lommy) on D2.

Boro - did not vote on D1, votes Inzil (because his case on D1 was "not only weak but faulty") on D2.

Shasta - votes Inzil on D1 (would have wished to vote for Eomer or me, did not want to vote Mnemo or Mac), on D2 votes Nerwen because of her last minute (late) vote for Mac that came out from nowhere (his points in #234 are worth a look).

Morsul - apart from quoting others in large chunks has had time to vote as well: makes the decentish vote for Mac (giving similar depictions but coming up with opposite judgements on people) on D1, on D2 votes Lottie because of her odd vote. And votes himself toDay I see... :confused:

Wilwa - did not vote on D1, votes Boro becasue he makes her uneasy (earlier refers to the same thing trom did *look above*) on D2.

Sally - votes Roa on D1 because she trusted my conviction, on D2 votes for Lottie for "acting shifty" - and clearly taking care her vote counts (eg. not voting for anyone on the top of her list).

satansaloser2005

12-03-2009, 04:51 PM

I'm going to fix up some dinner then go through and hopefully offer some commentary. Back soon.

Pitchwife

12-03-2009, 05:09 PM

Of the Lottie-voters, I'd say Brinn looks the most innocent to me (it's probably obvious, but I thought I'd mention it anyway). I have the impression Lottie's been getting on Brinn's nerves ever since their first game together (when innocent Lottie tried to make a case against innocent Brinn based on some blatant word-twisting). Also, Brinn's vote for Lottie was the first at a time when there were plenty other contenders for the noose.
This is saying nothing for or against Lottie herself, of course.

Pitchwife

12-03-2009, 05:33 PM

I'm working on morning shift tomorrow and have to get up early, so it's bedtime for me again. On the bright side, that means I'll come home in the early afternoon (GMT+1) and have oodles of time to participate and *ahem* hopefully post something that says anything and is worth posting at all before DL.:)

Nogrod

12-03-2009, 05:39 PM

Heh, "Mr. Agreeable" hits again... :D

But just as a remainder. Even if I tend to agree with you that Brinn looks pretty good, one could also interpret her votes as the real-calculated ones. Being short of time and forced to vote early because of RL a wolf like Brinn would like to show up like a rational, case-based voter. Both votes she made are "rational" and argumented but also more or less easy to produce.

The problem of course is that an innocent Brinn would have probably acted the very same way.

So I'm not disagreeing with you (another Mr. Agreeable then? :rolleyes:), but it's not so obvious you let us understand...

Of the others in my 8.

Lottie's vote still looks bad. The problem is whether it's "evilly bad" or just sloppy innocent.

Boro's voting-history is terrible, but he has happily both confessed that and promised to show his qualities (dang, it was the younger bro...).

Morsul manages to confuse me 100-0.

trom's vote looks decent but I'd like to hear so much more from her.

Shasta and Sally don't look so bad some of you others are painting them... but hard to say. Then again I'm not at all easy with Wilwa.

And I just realised I have totally forgotten about Bes! He voted for Mac on D1... It would be good to hear from him as well more toDay.

Legate of Amon Lanc

12-03-2009, 05:46 PM

Regrettably, I have to announce that tromkehra had to withdraw from the game (too much of RL obligations). Once again, I am going to announce her departure in the evening narration, but for now, let it he known that she was an ordinary innocent cook. (Reposting this on the admin thread too, and up to the daily summary above so that people can read it...)

Nienna

12-03-2009, 06:33 PM

Lottie:

Day One:

9 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617239&postcount=9). Agrees with me that reveals and false-reveals should be avoided because they are a headache and not really helpful. Hopes she can make it back by deadline.

This seems fine.

15 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617250&postcount=15). Talking about McCaber’s game and how we let a wolf skip through for a while

Unnecessary but not particularly suspicious.

Day Two:

223 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617605&postcount=223). Deadline problems so she has to vote early. List: Pitch looks suspicious, Mnemo doesn’t seem furry but isn’t crossing her off the list, Nog whisper’s wolf, Lommy seems suspicious

The list seems genuine… her take on Mnemo seems a little safe but her take on a lot of people looks this way… so… not much there.

227 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617611&postcount=227). Nog, Lommy, and Bes look the most wolvish followed by Morsul, Mnemo, or Pitchie but she doesn’t have any reasons.

229 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617614&postcount=229). Nit-pick’s Nog’s phrasing

241 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617631&postcount=241). Didn’t realize Nog isn’t a native English speaker so his weird phrasing makes more sense now.

244 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617635&postcount=244). Analyzes Lommy but only puts one post one then gives a list.

This one is super weird… I’m thinking that since Lommy had much more than one post when Lottie posted this that she had other information but forgot to post it… because it seems kind of pointless to just say “Post 1: ...” but then not put any other posts… in my opinion anyway.

Ok… so since I see very little suspicious about her behavior except not finishing her Lommy analysis before voting for her I am assuming this is why so many people voted her yesterday. Basically after some clarification from Lottie I will either be settled in my comfort of her or I will start to re-examine her… but for now she is going on the “could go either way” list.

wilwarin538

12-03-2009, 07:26 PM

K, here, gonna take a look at Mnemo's posts, and then I'll be back...

Loslote

12-03-2009, 07:56 PM

Here and reading.

Nienna

12-03-2009, 08:00 PM

Nerwen:

Day One:

34 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617280&postcount=34). Isn’t much the village can do to prevent lynching gifteds, wonders if Boro is saying that we shouldn’t lynch suspicious people.

56 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617313&postcount=56). Vs. Boro on Reasonableness

One interesting quote that sticks out “Wolves try all kinds of tactics” … it doesn’t necessarily say innocent nor does it say guilty but it is interesting.

72 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617340&postcount=72). Argues with Nog about Roa’s “slip”

It would have been easy for a wolf to jump onto the slip to frame an innocent Roa … but she could also not want to be caught trying to frame Roa if she turned out innocent.

87 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617357&postcount=87). More vs. Boro

181 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617461&postcount=181). Votes Mac “for dodgy reasoning” (late).

This concerns me… maybe because she admits that it is not even bad reasoning but ‘dodgy’.

Day Two

216 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617593&postcount=216). Doesn’t want to assume that since Mac and Zil didn’t reveal when they were about to be lynched that they aren’t gifteds.

238 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617627&postcount=238). Thinks she knows what Nog’s meta-reasoning is but she isn’t sure

This could be after a nice chat with fellow wolves about what Nog was talking about.

246 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617637&postcount=246). Wonders why Lottie voted Lommy

253 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617644&postcount=253). Doesn’t like Mnemo’s argument against Zil

Wolf-on-wolf? Possible.

266 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617658&postcount=266). Defends herself

268 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617660&postcount=268). Looks at people who agreed with Nog against Roa and found only Boro and Eomer but thought Boro looked okay and not enough to go on Eomer, find’s Mnemo starting to look very sinister.

I’m not sure if a fellow would necessarily point out a sinister looking Mnemo… but it is possible

277 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617679&postcount=277). Quotes Mnemo saying she is a wolf, gives more reasons for not liking Mnemo

I’m thinking that a wolf-Nerwen wouldn’t directly quote a wolf-Mnemo saying she’s a wolf… so I’m thinking better of Nerwen… I could be wrong though…

293 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617697&postcount=293). Sally/Mnemo switcheroo theory.

Strange…

301 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617710&postcount=301). Votes Mnemo but adds that she isn’t really sure about it.

Summary: I’m feeling better about Nerwen after having looked at her. She could be a tricksy wolf but it doesn’t feel like it to me.

Loslote

12-03-2009, 08:08 PM

Sorry about yesterDay. I had planned to look at all of her posts, but I hadn't even finished her first when I had to go. I barely managed to finish that one. In hindsight, I probably should have just dropped that Post 1 analysis, but...:rolleyes:

Macalaure

12-03-2009, 08:24 PM

I don't seem to be able to think today, so I won't contribute much now. Just a list of my current impressions, taking our newly-acquired knowledge into consideration. From good to bad:

Lommy - two crucial votes for Mnemo. Unless the wolves are really twisted, she's none.

Greenie - one early and one crucial votes for Mnemo, plus tons of sense in her posts. Innocent.

Eomer - two votes for Mnemo, though the second one was very late. Pretty innocent.

Nerwen - bad vote on D1, good vote on D2. I'm pretty confident of her innocence now.

Boro - a no vote and a first vote for someone with little support. His record isn't pretty, but I still feel good about him.

Pitch - difficult one. Tied me with Mnemo on D1 and voted Mnemo in fifth place, while everyone else had 2 or less (high wolf-on-wolf probability). Mnemo goes after him and votes him, too, which would make this a double wolf-on-wolf, whew. Sketchy situation that is cleared in Pitch's favour by the wolves killing Inzil, Mnemo's other main suspect. Safe to say, I think, that the wolves would not have chosen him if Pitch was one of them.

Morsul - he tied Lottie with Mnemo, which is bad. Other than that, I don't find much fault with him.

Lottie - can't say much. Confused, but I don't think maliciously so.

Brinn - first vote for Lottie, a promising bandwaggon after her strange behaviour. If I was a co-wolf of Mnemo and looking for a subtle way to save her (since it was obvious she would be in trouble), this would be a good way. Brinn continues to be a big question mark for me.

Bes - tied me with Mnemo on D1, then a no-vote. Deserves scrutiny.

Wilwa - first a no-vote, and then she tied Boro with the rest. Worth a careful look.

Nogrod - kept himself out of the fray with his vote for Roa on D2, voted Mnemo when it was clear that she would be gone eventually anyway. Nogrod isn't known to be scrupulous about his mates, especially when they're in danger.

Shasta - voted Inzil to save Mnemo (and not me)? Threw away vote on D2. Suspicious, which is annoying because I had faith in him so far.

Nienna - voted Inzil to save Mnemo (and not me)? Threw away vote on D2. Suspicious.

Sally - threw away her vote on D1 and made Lottie's waggon competitive again on D2 (very quickly after Inzil made it seem possible again). Very bad.

wilwarin538

12-03-2009, 08:26 PM

Alright, so here are some of Mnemo's more important posts, I left out some that were repetitive, I did this fairly quickly and I'm tired, but cause I won't be around too too much tomorrow I wanted to contribute at least a bit....

#20: As far as the role discussion goes... that's basically everyone's attempts to get something productive done on a Day One scenario. Since we're not given too much new material to chew over, I can't think of any other productive pot-stirring methods. At the same time, what else is there really to say, except, "Don't Reveal"?

*sigh*

Not much to be done, really. I can never get a feel for anyone off Day One, and the "what if this suspect's a gifted?" paranoia is doubled because the gifteds, like the baddies, know each other--giving the teams one more similarity that my addled pate really can't afford.

Nothing really stands out to me here, seems like a fairly common thing to say.

#41: The vote is the one powerful tool we as a group have; if we give that up all we are are meaningless numbers. Yeah, we might screw things up, but at least we did something.

Plus as Roa said lynch votes can be really helpful for analysis, plus all that the wolves would have to do is give us a completely flusterworthy no-trace kill and we'd be back in the same pickle.

And if we want to translate this into numbers... the wolves (and, to an extent, the Ranger) already have control of who dies toNight. We control (and yes, there are wolves in our number, but in this case they are just four among many) who dies toDay.

#97: Am I the only one who's convinced that the current tiffs are just opinionated ordos going insane, and the real wolves are sitting back and practically rubbing their hands with glee?

Although Roa's CobNog theory is interesting... Still, I think that Nogrod as a good cobbler would try to hold out until after Day One to start wreaking havoc. I'd just like to lay off both of them for a while and look at other possibilities...

I am glad, however, that we no longer have the problem we had thirteen hours ago or so! At the very least Boro and Roa should be commended for their apt bit of pot-stirring.

Since we've been discussing wolf strategies so much (reasonability etc.), could we please try to look at things from other angles? What I'm thinking of is more of along the lines of IC versus OOC. With a good deal of us (that's where the strategy falls short--our beloved n00bs!) there's a huge paper trail for how they normally play as innocent villagers. I think that that's a much better indicator of wolf-hood than whether a person sounds reasonable or not.

Mentions Nog and Boro here, not really anything overly huge though.

#108: a bit of a list, says she definitely won't vote for Nog, Roa or Boro...didn't like that Lottie and Nienna "restated the rules"...tempted to vote Morsul for confusion and Mac vote...good with Mac and Eomer...Pitch and Inzil feel "off"...wants to hear more from Brinn....wants more from Lommy and Shasta and myself...

So the fact that she was so sure about Nog, Roa and Boro makes me think that either Boro or Nog might be a wolf, mentions alot of others pretty lightly.

#128: wolf vibes from Pitch and Inzil

#130: coin flips them, goes with Inzil

#192: Which is why I've decided that I'm not going to vote to try to save people anymore, much less vote "politically." And I encourage others to follow suit. Granted, we all had little information to go off of yesterday, and we have little more information to go off of today. But when everyone's doing this sort of thing it creates divisions within the crew, divisions that wolves will be all too happy to exploit.

#222: Shasta: because suddenly guilt becomes relative.

Still don't really know what she meant by this.

#225: But it's always easy to vote for someone who you think voted weird. I didn't vote for you because 1). you were pretty yourself, as far as I could tell (which my vibes yesterday were saying were off for Inzil and Pitch... analysis of both hopefully coming up in an hour or two), and 2). to me it felt like doing so would be a copout. I don't like making "easy" votes in Werewolf, unless the Seer has come out and told me who a wolf is.

#237: Summary about Inzil, Several of the posts he made, especially early on, seemed to be for sheer zeal of the game... that first summary, continuing on with Boro... even correcting Roa! That's the kind of exuberance I expect from two kinds of people: 1). wolves, and 2). me. The fact that he was in the most previous game pushes him more into the "wolf" camp, as I know that much of my own exuberance comes from the fact that I take long breaks in between games.

In short, I've been suspecting him because if he's not a wolf, then he's acting too much like me for my own liking. I don't trust people who act like me.

# 243: Even when I analyze people, it tends to be what this says about me and not what it says about the player, because I actually know myself and how I think!

Go ahead and suspect me because of my vote yesterDay. I completely deserve that, because I should have taken a few deep breaths and thought things over some more. But finding me suspicious because of who I am as a reader of the gamethread and as a player makes me just a tad bit sad.

#263: Pitch Analasis, "silly jumpiness", and "short discrete chunks" also found Lottie's vote weird

#267: votes Pitch and says that it's a "concrete rational reason"

#270: linking this one, cause it's so long and interesting here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=617662&postcount=270)

random banter with Sally for quite a while

and then that's about it, not really as useful as I had hoped.
So really she doesn't mention too many people all that much. The one thing I got from all this is that I think Pitch might be innocent, she mostly concentrated on Inzil and Pitch and Inzil was innocent, and she voted for Pitch at a time that he very well could have been lynched, so I think he's probably fine. Her exchange with Sally is a bit weird, not really enough to suspect Sally, but I'll be keeping an eye on her. She seemed to be very positive of Nog's innocence, saying so more then once and insisting that the RoaNog exchange was innocent on innocent. So that's a bit interesting, the fact that Roa ended up innocent, perhaps Nog wasn't and she was trying to make it look like it really was innocent on innocent debate. I don't however find Nog all that suspicious, but still, I'm gonna keep that in mind.

Wow I was really hoping to get more out of all that, but I'm really exhausted and have to work late tomorrow. So I'll be back in the morning for a little bit, my vote will be early I'm afraid. Maybe someone will see something in Mnemo's posts that I didn't.

edit: x'ed with Lottie and Mac

Loslote

12-03-2009, 08:39 PM

Looking at people:

Boro is fairly logical and makes sense most of the time, but I can't quite get a reading on him.

Eomer I have no idea about, but probably innocent.

I don't think Morsul is a wolf, but I can't say with anything like certainty that he's an ordo.

I think Brinn's innocent...we just get on each other's nerves...

Pitchie seems innocent, maybe too much so? I'm not too worried about him right now, though.

Nienna seems good. She's one of the ones I feel most confident about...not that that's very confident...

Something still feels off about Nogrod, but I can't put my finger on it.

I thought Mac looked good yesterday, and I think so even more now. When he mentioned that we wouldn't learn too much from my role if I died, and more from Mnemo's - that seemed ordoish.

I don't know what to think about sally. She doesn't jump out as a wolf, but she's done some things that make me think.

Lommy, as you may have noticed, definitely looks furry to me. I still have no proof or reasoning, so I'll probably ease back on that one.

Nerwen looks genuine.

Bes still looks suspicious to me. He is a newbie, so I'm not looking very hard at him yet, but I do think he could easily be a wolf.

Shasta could go either way for me.

Wilwa looks suspicious, but she's not at the top of my list.

Greenie I'm not sure about.

So, Suspicious:
Bes, Lommy, and Nog still look the worst to me.

Slightly suspicious:
Wilwa, sally, and maybe Pitchie.

Unsure:
Shasta, Greenie, Morsul

Leaning innocent:
Brinn, Boro, Eomer

Probably innocent:
Nerwen, Nienna, Mac.

EDIT: xed with wilwa and Mac

Morsul the Dark

12-03-2009, 09:03 PM

I don't think missing one vote will get you modfired, Morsul, just FYI. :)

Yes but on day 3...4 th next day I can't vote so I'd be missing two votes I panicked about getting modfired for missing two votes... my show ended earlier than I thought...

Morsul the Dark

12-03-2009, 09:06 PM

For the record I still would have voted tonight so the reasonings still would have been bad I voted myself because it's a neutral vote..

Loslote

12-03-2009, 09:10 PM

Oh, and just to get this out of the way, because I know it's going to come up...

Don't lynch me toDay, because I am the Secret Role. I am a limited seer. I have only one dream, on Night Four - aka, toNight.

I don't know how much longer I'll have online, but I should be able to get on later. Hopefully. Until then, have fun being chaotic.

Nienna

12-03-2009, 09:28 PM

Loslote

12-03-2009, 09:48 PM

Ok kids we need to find some new suspects because I'm not a wolf and I'm pretty sure Sally isn't a wolf... and since I think it is safe to assume for the moment that Lottie isn't a wolf... new suspects need to be brought forward.

Not again...

For a new suspect: How about Bes? The more I look at him, the more uneasy I get, but I don't have time to analyze him right now. I've only got fifteen minutes or so before I've got to go...

Loslote

12-03-2009, 10:05 PM

Oh, well. Looking at Bes:

Post 1: IC banter, comments on the Boro issue, suggests no one votes Day 1.

Post 2: Backs off when Roa and Mnemo veto the 'no voting' suggestion.

Post 3: IC banter, says he's going to sleep.

Post 4: Says he's reading up and waiting for Legate to answer a question on the rules.

Post 5: Backpedals on the Boro issue; says he doesn't know what to think about Nog and Roa; votes Mac because Inzil's arguments looked best.

Post 6: Apologizes for his hasty Mac vote earlier; promises to be more careful.

Post 7: Summarizes Mac's posts; says Pitchie looked just as suspicious

Post 8: Says he won't be voting; promises to post more on Day 3 if he's still here.

He hasn't come on again, but when you look at him, he never really says anything...might just be newbieness, might be wolfishness. As he's my top suspect,

++Bes

So sorry if you're innocent...

Brinniel

12-03-2009, 10:08 PM

I have the impression Lottie's been getting on Brinn's nerves ever since their first game together (when innocent Lottie tried to make a case against innocent Brinn based on some blatant word-twisting). Also, Brinn's vote for Lottie was the first at a time when there were plenty other contenders for the noose.
Heh, I didn't even remember that until you mentioned it...and even then it's still blurry. But really, I don't have any harsh feelings against Loslote; I simply found her actions yesterDay to be suspicious.

Green: probably innocent, voted Mnemo first.

Eomer: definitely innocent, put Mnemo in lead.

Lommy: definitely innocent, put Mnemo onto 3 votes.

Mac: possibly guilty, said he'd prefer Inzi over Mnemo a lot. Maybe too strong and incriminating for a wolf? Also, highly suspicious of Mnemo next day. PROBABLY INNOCENT.

Shasta: guilty? tried to save Mnemo

Nienna: guilty? ditto

Inzi: innocent, sacrificed to save Mnemo on first day and Mnemo also suspected him the day after, after he already had a lot of votes.

Nerwen: probably innocent, strongly against Mnemo on second day.

Pitch: innocent? voted for by Mnemo at start of day two.

Wilwa: guilty? when votes are 1 each for lots of people, wilwa defends Mnemo.

Nogrod: innocent? seems critical of Mnemo

Sally: guilty? also doesn't want to vote Mnemo

Nienna tried to save Mnemo again by killing Loslote. GUILTY
So apparently Eomer has come to the conclusion that everyone who voted Mnemo is innocent and those who tried to save her are probably guilty. That is a horrible assumption to make. While those who weren't convinced of Mnemo's guilt may look more suspicious, that doesn't necessarily mean they are. And with seven votes for Mnemo, I think it could be very likely that at least one is wolf-on-wolf. There are players among the Mnemo voters who are risk-takers and would probably be perfectly okay with sacrificing a wolf to make them look better.

Btw, I'm slightly concerned about this jump on Nienna. Yes, she tried to save Mnemo twice, but that doesn't make her automatically guilty. I've seen plenty of innocents get lynched in the past for this reason and because of that, the wolves could easily set Nienna up to be toDay's lynch, so let's not jump to conclusions. Of course now that I've said this, she'll probably turn out to be a wolf after all. :rolleyes: But unless she does something majorly suspicious toDay, I doubt I'll vote her.

Don't lynch me toDay, because I am the Secret Role. I am a limited seer. I have only one dream, on Night Four - aka, toNight.
Hmm...I'm not convinced. The problem with the secret role is that it's so much easier for a baddie to get away with a fake reveal since we don't know what the role is. One dream for the entire game? A limited seer is certainly possible, though I honestly expected more from a secret role.

While I'm still not sure whether to believe Loslote's claim, I will give her the benefit of the doubt for toDay and see what dream she comes up with toMorrow. It'd be pretty silly to lynch her now with the chance that she is telling the truth. I wonder if there'll be a counter reveal...

Bes

12-03-2009, 11:09 PM

I can't fault Lottie's reasons for suspecting me, she makes valid points. I mean, I can sit here and explain why I haven't been active all day, but you guys don't know me to be sure whether or not I'm being sincere (By the by, called in to work today unexpectedly. I was expecting to be available to play from 4PM to 8PM EST, but it didn't happen that way. One of the other employees sprung a doctor's appointment on the supervisor as a surprise. :rolleyes:)

I am surprised by her reveal, though. I mean, very surprised. Bear with me: If she's telling the truth, then she's put herself in a perfect position to get night killed, and (if I understand how it works properly) be prevented from ever revealing her dream. Waiting until tomorrow to reveal and telling everyone what she dreamed would have easily prevented that, and I don't think the suspicion against her is sufficient at the moment for lynching to be a big concern for her. Which makes me think that this is a false reveal by a nervous wolf, following up an easy vote on someone that's been stumbling over his own feet through the game so far.

I dunno, other people's thoughts? Also, I'm a slow typist, so I expect to cross with a few people.

Edit: Really? Huh, no I didn't. But I am reminded: Brinn is convinced by this reveal awfully quickly...

Brinniel

12-03-2009, 11:25 PM

I am surprised by her reveal, though. I mean, very surprised. Bear with me: If she's telling the truth, then she's put herself in a perfect position to get night killed, and (if I understand how it works properly) be prevented from ever revealing her dream.
Well, so long as the ranger is still alive by toNight, they can protect her. I too thought it odd that she would reveal now considering she's not even a serious lynch candidate at the moment. But if she is telling the truth and considering it doesn't look like she'll be back before deadline, she could've just panicked.

But I am reminded: Brinn is convinced by this reveal awfully quickly...
Wait, what? I just said I'm NOT convinced of her reveal. But still, even if there is a counter reveal, I'll still give her the benefit of the doubt for toDay because I don't want to risk the chance that she is what she says she is and lose a possible dream. If this is a false reveal, we will figure it out eventually; we always do.

Boromir88

12-03-2009, 11:26 PM

Ok kids we need to find some new suspects because I'm not a wolf and I'm pretty sure Sally isn't a wolf... and since I think it is safe to assume for the moment that Lottie isn't a wolf... new suspects need to be brought forward. I'd also appreciate some reasoning behind why people seem to find me very suspicious and willing to kill just to see if I'm evil. *Waits patiently to be analyzed*

Well now you can't expect us to just sit here and be hunky-dory about those who defended Mnemo and voted in an attempt to save her. You are under suspicion for strong and understandable reasons.

However, as I said before, I think votes can be craftily manipulated by the wolves. And since Mnemo had 3-votes on Day 1 I'm putting more stock into the wolf-on-wolf than Eomer is. That still doesn't change the fact that several people defended her, and several more didn't have much to say about her, so Eomer is being 100% understandable in his focus on those who defended Mnemo.

Taking other stuff into consideration, aside from the voting, I think you look pretty good Nienna. Your consistant efforts against Lommy make you look more innocent than others who defended Mnemo. Lommy is a tough lynch, and I would think any wolves who were trying some sort of effort to save Mnemo would try to turn the focus on someone who was under more suspicion/an easier lynch.

I will just tell you though, I have no idea what you're seeing that is suspicious with Lommy. I may be putting too much stock in judging people based on feelings and words, but Lommy said she was "detached." A wolf doesn't say that, plain and simple. A wolf is excited to be a wolf, they may not be a loud/active player, but there still is a certain level of excitement, and involvement, about having the role.

So apparently Eomer has come to the conclusion that everyone who voted Mnemo is innocent and those who tried to save her are probably guilty. That is a horrible assumption to make. While those who weren't convinced of Mnemo's guilt may look more suspicious, that doesn't necessarily mean they are. And with seven votes for Mnemo, I think it could be very likely that at least one is wolf-on-wolf. There are players among the Mnemo voters who are risk-takers and would probably be perfectly okay with sacrificing a wolf to make them look better.

Eomer is pretty much saying that, but that's still an exaggeration. It's like when people thought I was saying we should lynch all the reasonable players. Eomer isn't saying lynch everyone who defended/voted to save Mnemo, because there just aren't that many wolves. But he is rightfully pointing attention to the sizeable group of people who did something to defend Mnemo. Anyone in that group could be a wolf and it's only right they all should come under suspicion for it.

Edit: crossed with Brinn

Bes

12-03-2009, 11:30 PM

Brinn: That's what I get for speed reading. Appologies. Also, I need to get to bed. See you all tomorrow. I'd say I'd get more done, but honestly that seems to be the kiss of death for my productivity so far. We'll see. :-/

Boromir88

12-03-2009, 11:38 PM

Lottie's reveal makes perfect sense. If she only gets one dream, her task was to stay alive to get it, and with the Ranger's help, she'll get it.

I see no reason to doubt it. The wolves just lost one yesterday, why throw another one out into the water? We'll find out if she's telling the truth or not within a few days.

I do think with what happened yesterday, Lottie wasn't going to be under suspicion like she was yesterday, but if she's gone for the rest of the day I certainly understand her reason to not want to risk it.

Brinniel

12-04-2009, 12:02 AM

Eomer isn't saying lynch everyone who defended/voted to save Mnemo, because there just aren't that many wolves. But he is rightfully pointing attention to the sizeable group of people who did something to defend Mnemo. Anyone in that group could be a wolf and it's only right they all should come under suspicion for it.
Well, I didn't say I thought Eomer wanted to lynch everyone who defended Mnemo, just that he labeled them all as suspicious. But I was more concerned about him labeling everyone who voted Mnemo as most likely innocent. I agree that those who defended Mnemo should be looked at because there's a good chance one is a wolf, but I also think it's just as likely that there's one wolf among the group that voted Mnemo.

Nerwen

12-04-2009, 12:31 AM

Hi all. I've wasted an hour or more going through Mnemo's posts, but I've decided there's no point posting my full analysis, because it came up with pretty much the same result as Wilwa's. Which is to say that she left no clear leads to anyone; might have a connection with Sally because of all their bantering (but might also have been trying to make it look that way); and that her repeated statements about feeling sure that both Nogrod and Roa were innocent might point at Nogrod. Or not; it could have been meant to make herself look good if either were lynched and proven innocent. I also agree that her vote for Pitchwife is unlikely to have been wolf-on-wolf, unless she assumed no-one would follow it.

This is what perplexes me; she was careless enough to get herself lynched yesterDay with her downright absurd "cases" ("Zil plays like me! That makes him a wolf!"), yet careful enough to leave no real trails. Interesting.

Her comments on Lottie are a case in point; in the same post that she votes Pitch she describes Lottie as "wolvish". Now, is she fake-suspecting a packmate (while voting someone else) or trying to keep an innocent in the running? Not much help in evaluating Lottie's claim, anyway.

EDIT:fixed formatting.

Boromir88

12-04-2009, 12:49 AM

Greenie:

Day 1-
#109 agrees with Mnemo that everyone should take a deep breath
#118 wary of Mnemo for popping in being active, but not being very confrontational
#124 will vote for Nog or Mnemo
#132 votes Mnemo (1/3)
Day 2-
#272 explains vote for Mnemo instead of Nog
#324 agrees with Nerwen that Mnemo's had a change in behavior from Day 1 to Day 2. Is confused by it, but still suspicious
#357 will probably vote for Mnemo
#385 votes Mnemo (3/7 and breaks 3-way tie)

All I can say is if Greenie's a wolf, this is an absolutely bravura performance and you would deserve to win. It's tempting to think conspiratorily and say "what a perfectly placed Day 2 vote if Greenie's a wolf, because it breaks the 3-way tie," but all your other posts are consistant and match up.

Plus Greenie and Nerwen point out Mnemo's change in behavior from Day 1 to Day 2. I have no reservations about assuming Greenie is innocent.

Wilwa

Day 2-
#239 good with Nerwen and Mnemo
#346
Mnemo is acting a bit different then yesterday, but I still don't really feel suspicious of her.
Acknowledges Nerwen's point of Mnemo's behavior change, but if that isn't trying to deflect suspicion away from it I don't know what is.
#363
uhmm....I'm definitely gonna vote for someone on this list, cause there's no way I'm bringing a number 8 into the mix. Lommy hasn't stood out to me, Boro makes me uneasy so maybe him, Pitch too though after a quick skim through he was iffy too, Mnemo I'm fairly ok with, Lottie haven't really payed attention too, Zil I don't even know why people are suspicious of him, and Nerwen I'm good with.
Within 40 minutes Mnemo changes from "don't really feel suspicious of her," to "fairly ok with."
#381 votes Boro (ties me with Mnemo), as she previously stated

Not only does wilwa look bad based on her defense of Mnemo, but her suspicions against me are flat out weak. I expect some unfamiliar players to get adjusted to my style, like trom and Bes, but wilwa should be much more familiar with me.

Ya, ya, I know we can all be different, and change and all that jazz, but just look at her reason for voting me. All she says about me several times is I make her uneasy" and then she points out a quote saying my last line looked strange. Chalk-full of vague, negatively connotated words that really don't point to someone being a wolf at all, but everyone thinks "strange" and "odd" = suspicious

Look at #363 too when she's trying to figure out who to vote, Mnemo's got 2 and everyone else has 1. She doesn't want to add another name, so she looks at everyone with votes. Trying to figure out who would be a good one to tie Mnemo with, but by the time you go and vote you realize you've only said I'm making you "uneasy?" Besides, throwing a random "maybe Pitch" in there? I have no reservations about calling wilwa a wolf.

With that, nap time, I'll finish on everyone else tomorrow. Nog, good to see me return to true form? :p

Edit: crossed with Nerwen

Boromir88

12-04-2009, 01:06 AM

One quick thing before...

Well, I didn't say I thought Eomer wanted to lynch everyone who defended Mnemo, just that he labeled them all as suspicious. But I was more concerned about him labeling everyone who voted Mnemo as most likely innocent. I agree that those who defended Mnemo should be looked at because there's a good chance one is a wolf, but I also think it's just as likely that there's one wolf among the group that voted Mnemo.

Fair enough, and by fair enough, I mean I concede that you weren't exaggerating anything. I tend to think Eomer stays much more focused and straight to the point, which is why I'm very pleased to see this from him. Of course there are weaknesses to going with the black and white approach, but there are also several strengths. For one, you don't drive yourself crazy trying to endlessly spin your head in circles of all the possibities (some reasonable possiblities, others plain outrageous :p).

Shastanis Althreduin

12-04-2009, 02:51 AM

Read and caught up (mostly - will need to probably re-read tomorrow), but as it's nearly three in the morning, I should get to bed.

What I can say is this - Brinniel could be a wolf (not discounting her D1 connection to Nerwen) trying to save a Niennawolf with that next-to-most-recent post of hers. She brings up valid points, but it's almost with a "I'm not sure it's a good idea, but you guys do what you wanna do" attitude.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

12-04-2009, 03:11 AM

Well, Brinn, Werewolf can be a simple game. I have reasons for finding the Mnemo voters probably innocent, for now at least. After a few days we can examine more theories but for now, when we still have so many people alive in this expedition, I'm not going to complicate things.

Aye, they could have voted wolf-on-wolf, but I won't bother seriously entertaining that possibility - because I have four other villagers in my sight who are, to my mind, obviously more suspicious.

Or should I say susp-ice-ous?

Yes, yes I should.

Macalaure

12-04-2009, 05:31 AM

Boromir88

12-04-2009, 05:44 AM

Now up and continuing...

Shasta

Day 1-
#171 doesn't see anything on Mnemo and Mac, votes Inzil.
Day 2-
#220 defends Day 1 vote saying he wasn't "sure" about Mac and Mnemo's innocence, but Inzil looked the least innocent of the three.
#234 doesn't trust Nerwen, her vote could have been to kill Mac, or to save Inzil or possibly Mnemo.
#354 votes Nerwen (1/1), confirms what Nienna said about his Day 1 vote.
I believe he was voting to save Mac and Mnemo not necessarily to kill Zil... does that make sense? ...and Shasta feel free to correct me as I'm speaking about something that might be untrue.

I don't think his Day 1 vote looks bad. In principle it's not bad to cast a vote to save someone you think is more innocent. I don't think the most suspicious part is his defense of voting for Inzil, but the fact that he doesn't trust Nerwen's Day 1 vote, because her vote could have been to save Inzil or Mnemo (or kill Mac). Now, Shasta said he was voting not to kill Inzil because he really thought he was a wolf, but to save Mac and Mnemo who he thought looked more innocent. If you weren't all that suspicious of Inzil in the first place, then why jump on Nerwen's vote?

Then his Day 2 vote is suspicious, not in wilwa's way, but by adding in another name to the pot a Shasta-wolf could have been hoping Mnemo would have gotten lost in the mix of names. Shasta looks highly suspicious, but I'm not willing to rule out being a misled innocent just yet.

Bes

Day 1- #42 notes Roa and Mnemo's point about lynching people on Day 1.

And that was the only time I noticed Bes say something to Mnemo. Possibly a wolf trying to keep at a distance, but that's weak paranoid speculation on my part. Based on interaction with Mnemo, he looks ok.

Nerwen

Day 1- Nada, intended to vote Mac.
Day 2-
#268 Mnemo suddenly looks sinister (I believe referring to #263)
#277 still not liking Mnemo
#293 thinks sally hacked into Mnemo's account
#293 debates Mnemo or Lottie
#301 votes Mnemo (1/7) but expresses uncertainty about it.

First to vote for Mnemo, which could be a wolf-on-wolf spot, but like Greenie everything matches up with Nerwen. She was the first to notice Mnemo was very different than from Day 1. It appeared to take Nerwen (and several others) by surprise. Even though everyone could see it (shouldn't say everyone, because I chose to ignore it completely), why would another wolf draw attention to it? I have no reservations about assuming Nerwen innocent.

Lommy

Day 1-
#58 a list and Mnemo is quite "eye-brow raising"
#95 suspects Mnemo a bit
#151 could vote for Nienna or Mnemo
#157 doesn't want to be the 3rd straight vote for Mnemo, because that would start a band-wagon and doesn't think Mnemo deserves it.
#163 Nienna would be a throw away, so Nog or Mnemo...
#168 votes Mnemo (3/3)
Day 2-
#273 Mnemo is odd and leaning towards guilty
#328 Mnemo and sally both raising eye-brows. Mnemo slightly more
#350 would be least sorry to lynch Mnemo
#362 votes Mnemo (and breaks the massive tie of 1-vote getters)

Voted for Mnemo twice which makes her look very innocent. Also the placement of her 2-votes don't make sense for being wolf-on-wolf. Unless if for Day 2 Mnemo was planning to go sacrificial, but even then it doesn't make sense considering #328 where Lommy makes the astute point:
And Mnemo has got about as many defenders as accusers.
This is worthy of more consideration. But first it's time to continue the increasingly lame use of playing with ice puns...Mnemo was definitely polar-izing! :rolleyes: Ok, back to Lommy. Anyway, Lommy makes that point, and if a fellow-wolf notices that Mnemo has still quite a lot of defenders, why put her in the lead at that point?

One more thing for you Lommy, don't take offense, it's further attempt to offer help. From Day 1, from #157
Darn, Eomer's vote for Mnemo makes me hesitant to vote her, because that would turn the Mnemo-votes to a bandwagon and I'm not sure if she deserves that.
Now, I've come to expect a certain flippety-floppety from you, but that's just silly. You were going to vote for Mnemo, but were seriously considering not to because then it would be a bandwagon? Then you wind up casting the 3rd vote anyway (albeit Bes voted for Mac inbetween) but how could you rationalize that you still weren't bandwagoning? *sigh of disbelief*

For a normal person, I would be scratching my head at that silly line of reasoning, and seriously consider it for looking wolf-on-wolf. But, you are not normal, :p and strangely enough I understand the Finns are much nicer, and more considerate than me. Seriously though, realize you've got skillz at this and don't doubt yourself so much, least of all for something as silly as not wanting to bandwagon.

Edit: crossed with Mac

Thinlómien

12-04-2009, 07:12 AM

I wish I had time to reread all for myself, but that's not case due to my bad timing (again). :rolleyes: Anyway, I trust Wilwa's version of Mnemo's sayings, especially if Nerwen verifies it. And I guess it's ok to trust voting summaries too.

Loslote confuses me, mostly because when I saw her list post I was screaming "GUILTY!" to my screen and in the next post she claims to have the secret role. :rolleyes: But I agree with whoever it was who suggested waiting at least until toMorrow. At this point, we would harm ourselves much more by distrusting her than by trusting her.

Nienna's votes look the worst as she has tried to save Mnemo two Days in a row. The only thing that bothers me there is why she voted for Lommy and not Lottie yesterDay (she could have made it 5-5)? Maybe she thought it would have been too obvious... but not taking sides at that point between the two only real candidates would look bad anyway...It's easy to fall to that trap as a wolf, I know, I've done it sometimes. It's the sort of "uncertain wolf" approach: not voting a fellow so as not to abandon the hope s/he might be saved after all but not voting on another serious lynch candidate either because that would be too incriminating. If you think of it, it's not very smart, but it's very easy to do it if you're unsure/torn.

Remember the early days, when some of us would reference ourselves in lists as: definitely innocent, impeccably honest and true, and pretty darn handsome too, if I may say so; so handsome, in fact, that were he a wolf, he would have been murdered a long time ago by a pack of envious lupine males.

These days are not over.Awwww.

Morsul's self-vote is weird, but I guess it makes sense by his logic. And it makes me feel good about him: I think a wolf would be more paranoid and careful and thus not vote himself but cast a random vote.

Now, I've come to expect a certain flippety-floppety from you, but that's just silly. You were going to vote for Mnemo, but were seriously considering not to because then it would be a bandwagon? Then you wind up casting the 3rd vote anyway (albeit Bes voted for Mac inbetween) but how could you rationalize that you still weren't bandwagoning? *sigh of disbelief*

For a normal person, I would be scratching my head at that silly line of reasoning, and seriously consider it for looking wolf-on-wolf. But, you are not normal, and strangely enough I understand the Finns are much nicer, and more considerate than me. Seriously though, realize you've got skillz at this and don't doubt yourself so much, least of all for something as silly as not wanting to bandwagon.Aww, it's my personal Dr Phil again! :D But it's really that I didn't suspect Mnemo so much, especially not on Day1. (Actually, when I read the news about her role at the end of yesterDay, I was slightly surprised, or more like "wow, I was correct" than "I told you so"...) And because I didn't really have much to go on, I didn't want her to die because of my vague suspicions, but then I reached the conclusion I suspect her more than anyone else anyway so she deserves my vote.

And here comes a quick list about my current feelings

Innocent
Greenie
Morsul
Loslote (?)

Probably innocent
Pitch
Nog
Boro

More innocent than guilty
Nerwen
Eomer
Bes

More guilty than innocent
Brinn
Mac
Wilwa

Probably guilty
Sally
Nienna
Shasta

Guilty
At least two of the previous cathegory and one from either there or somewhere else...

Ha! It goes 3-3-3-3-3! Nice. I'll be back later and I can elaborate on stuff then.

satansaloser2005

12-04-2009, 07:18 AM

My problem right now is that evidence and feeling arr quite far apart for me right now.

By evidence:
Good: Eomer, Lommy, Green
Quite good: Lottie (after reveal), Pitch, Nerwen
Unsure: Boro, Morsul, Brinn, Nogrod (ranked him a bit too low in my list above, I guess)
Quite bad: Bes, Wilwa
Bad: Nienna, Sally, Shasta

By feeling:
Good: Boro, Lottie, Nerwen, Green
Quite good: Eomer, Pitch, Sally, Shasta
Unsure: Morsul, Nienna, Bes, Wilwa
Quite bad: Brinn, Nogrod, Lommy
Bad: ./.

My feeling is undeservedly bad on Brinn, Nogrod, and esp. Lommy, and undeservedly good on Nienna, Shasta, and Sally, all those that are really bad by evidence (Boro, too, but I'm not so worried about him). I have to try and figure this out toDay. No time right now, but a few hours before the deadline I will be there most of the time.

Your opinion's got a pretty wide range there doesn't it, Mac? (However, while I still don't see the problem with me, I'll second you on Shasta and Nienna; I'll have to give them both another look but alas I fell asleep on the job last night and wasn't that productive.) Need to get ready for work but I was analyzing Lottie last night so I'll finish that as I dash about.

Nienna

12-04-2009, 07:24 AM

I just wanted to let everyone know I'll be gone from now until about an hour before deadline.

Make good choices.

satansaloser2005

12-04-2009, 07:30 AM

I just wanted to let everyone know I'll be gone from now until about an hour before deadline.

Make good choices.

Will do, precious. Have a good day.

satansaloser2005

12-04-2009, 07:32 AM

Interesting discussion so far. Many long words. I found it inspiring. I'd try to understand it, but honestly, I'm too lazy. I'll just say Nog was being very scientific and Mnemo, for some reason, doesn't appreciate the lack of showers. Meh...not too much to comment on, is there?

Nothing here.

Agreed. McCaber's game was just painful. Let's try to avoid tons of reveals and false-reveals and counter-reveals and such. They pretty much just make major headaches. And like Nienna said, it's not really helpful.

Deadline is iffy for me, too, but I should be around. It's noon my time, but I probably can get on around eleven...here's hoping.

Past-game commentary and a caution for people not to reveal. *wonders about this* Other than that, nothing.

Yes. They ended up being helpful. Mostly because no one knew what was going on. And remember, we skipped over the wolf in the batch, Morsul, and left him alive for much longer than he probably would have lasted otherwise. Plus, I had already written "for Morsul was the Agent" in my poem, and when I finally figured out what had happened, the poem was already ruined.

Again, more past and meta conversation.

Here and reading.

Nada.

Okay, I'll have to vote way early. Deadline problems again...and I have no idea who to vote for.

Inzil and Mac don't look furry to me, so I don't think I'll be voting for them.

Morsul is suspicious looking, but then, I always suspect him, mostly because I can't follow his logic.

I've never played with Eomer before, but he seems to be making sense, so I don't think I'd vote for him today unless something extreme happens.

I can't get a read on Boro, despite the 'issue' yesterDay - or maybe because of it.

Brinn is another one I always suspect. This game I think she's good, which worries me...gah. Enough paranoia.

Pitchie looks suspicious, but I don't have anything solid yet. I think I will look more closely at him.

Mnemo doesn't seem furry, but I'm not anywheres near certain, and am not crossing her off the list anytime soon.

I haven't gotten much read on Nienna yet.

Nogrod is the most suspicious yet...but even he doesn't scream wolf...more like whisper it.

Not getting much from Sally, either.

Lommy seems suspicious, but I have no reason for it.

Nerwen looks good. At least, I haven't seen anything that doesn't seem genuine yet.

Bes is new. I don't know his style yet, but he does seem a tad bit off. I'll look at him later, probably not toDay.

I don't think Shasta's a wolf...but I can't quite tell.

Wilwa hasn't been around much due to RL. Understandable.

Haven't picked much up on Greenie yet, either.

Tromkehra's new, too. Can't tell very much, but his (her?) repeated posing in role kind of rankles...but not in a particularly furry way...

That turned into a list. I wasn't actually expecting that. I do lists a lot, don't I?

EDIT: xed with Shasta, Morsul, and Mnemo

Morsul is automatically suspicious, Eomer being reasonable earns him a get out of jail free card, has no opinion (or rather seems to be avoiding having an opinion) on Mnemo, suspects Brinn, Nog, Pitch, and Lommie but doesn’t know why. Thinks Shasta’s okay, and isn’t sure about Kehra. I know I’m hardly one to talk, but this seems like a list for the sake of a list.

Really, I think only Nog, Lommy, and Bes look at all wolvish to me. I suppose Morsul, Mnemo, or Pitchie could also be wolves, but I seriously don't have any reasons.

EDIT: xed with wilwa

Suspicious: Nog, Lommie, Bess, as well as Morsul, Mnemo, and Pitch. No reasoning, and says she doesn’t have any to offer. Which is pretty impressive considering that she just did a suspicion list in her last post. (Of course as I mentioned the list wasn’t that intricate but it’s the principle of the thing. Seems to me like repeating herself for the sake of looking useful.)

This again: the post is manipulative and confusing. "It's one of those things a player is not allowed to produce evidence for" - that's where Roa thought he was trying to hint that he was a seer. One of the other gifteds could fit here, too - and we know that Roa wasn't trying to mislead us now.

"Which is actually just fair" - a weak sentence on its own. The subject is 'which' - this naturally confuses the reader. Which is not a strong subject. The verb 'is' happens to be a linking verb. Linking verbs are weak verbs, and confuse readers. 'Actually just fair' - do I really have to break this down? It's three descriptions, one after the other. One would have done the job, and would have been much easier to read.

This is another point of interest to me (especially given her recent ‘reveal’). Then she just picks at Noggie’s grammar. *hugs him* So not a lot.

Erm...yeah...didn't know that one. The wording makes more sense now...

EDIT: xed with Inzil

Just got corrected (well, you know) on why Nog’s sentence structure isn’t perfect. Nada.

Looking at Lommy.

Post 1: She is busy, won't be able to post much. She's happy to be playing.

List:

Inzil seems okay but she doesn't want to jump to conclusions.
Mnemosyne she distrusts.
Boromir88 she thinks is acting strangely but not suspiciously.
Eomer hasn't been around.
Me : she thought I could be anything but said I was funny. (Thanks!)
Morsul she had no idea about.
Brinn seems normal; could be anything.
Pitchwife was funny and nice; Lommy thought maybe too nice.
Nienna she thought looked suspicious and didn't know why everyone was saying she wasn't.
Nogrod she thought was bantering too much to be quite normal.
Macalaure she makes reference to an old game.
sally she forgot to say anything about.
Thinlómien identifies herself and flies away. I'm guessing this was joking. ;)
Nerwen is controversial; Lommy doesn't think she would be as a wolf.
Roa she thought was innocent.
Bes she appreciated seeing him, but wanted to see him more.
Shasta she thought seemed good.
wilwa hasn't been around.
Greenie was waiting on her.
tromkehra she wanted to see more out of character posts.

I have to go now, and won't be on again until toMorrow. So...

++Lommy

So….I know she’s mentioned this before but even with no time, if you’re going to make yourself look purposefully ridiculously (no offense, dear) guilty I think it’d be better to say nothing at all. I also find it interesting that she voted Lommie and not Nog at this stage.

Here and reading.

Nada.

Sorry about yesterDay. I had planned to look at all of her posts, but I hadn't even finished her first when I had to go. I barely managed to finish that one. In hindsight, I probably should have just dropped that Post 1 analysis, but...:rolleyes:

In hindsight she shouldn’t have appeared to vote based on Lommie’s suspicion list, silly post in her analysis or no. This post looks again intentionally apologetic(ish) and pleasing for the sake of looking better.

Looking at people:

Boro is fairly logical and makes sense most of the time, but I can't quite get a reading on him.

Eomer I have no idea about, but probably innocent.

I don't think Morsul is a wolf, but I can't say with anything like certainty that he's an ordo.

I think Brinn's innocent...we just get on each other's nerves...

Pitchie seems innocent, maybe too much so? I'm not too worried about him right now, though.

Nienna seems good. She's one of the ones I feel most confident about...not that that's very confident...

Something still feels off about Nogrod, but I can't put my finger on it.

I thought Mac looked good yesterday, and I think so even more now. When he mentioned that we wouldn't learn too much from my role if I died, and more from Mnemo's - that seemed ordoish.

I don't know what to think about sally. She doesn't jump out as a wolf, but she's done some things that make me think.

Lommy, as you may have noticed, definitely looks furry to me. I still have no proof or reasoning, so I'll probably ease back on that one.

Nerwen looks genuine.

Bes still looks suspicious to me. He is a newbie, so I'm not looking very hard at him yet, but I do think he could easily be a wolf.

Shasta could go either way for me.

Wilwa looks suspicious, but she's not at the top of my list.

Greenie I'm not sure about.

So, Suspicious:
Bes, Lommy, and Nog still look the worst to me.

Slightly suspicious:
Wilwa, sally, and maybe Pitchie.

Unsure:
Shasta, Greenie, Morsul

Leaning innocent:
Brinn, Boro, Eomer

Probably innocent:
Nerwen, Nienna, Mac.

EDIT: xed with wilwa and Mac

And again, nothing. She’s allegedly looked at all Lommie’s posts (even if she didn’t type notes on all of them) but she has nothing to say on her? Rubbish. Even I’ve got something to say on someone by this stage in the game. Also, the comment about Mac looking ordo-ish based on him wanting to learn more about Mnemo’s role looked strange to me, almost too calculated and possibly petting a mate or someone else she might be in cahoots with. No idea (and while I know from personal experience that Mac’s got no qualms about bussing people I’m not sure Lottie would hold the same philosophy).

Oh, and just to get this out of the way, because I know it's going to come up...

Don't lynch me toDay, because I am the Secret Role. I am a limited seer. I have only one dream, on Night Four - aka, toNight.

I don't know how much longer I'll have online, but I should be able to get on later. Hopefully. Until then, have fun being chaotic.

Ahhhh, well then. Perfect timing, precious. I’m just ready to vote you and you come along and say “Don’t lynch me, I’m the magical one-hit wonder pixie dust and cake seer! I’m special!” Again, don’t know her style that well but at this point she wasn’t the main suspect so I’m concerned about why she felt it necessary to reveal now. (Then again, since this game we don’t have retractables I’ll give her that point.)

Oh, well. Looking at Bes:

Post 1: IC banter, comments on the Boro issue, suggests no one votes Day 1.

Post 2: Backs off when Roa and Mnemo veto the 'no voting' suggestion.

Post 3: IC banter, says he's going to sleep.

Post 4: Says he's reading up and waiting for Legate to answer a question on the rules.

Post 5: Backpedals on the Boro issue; says he doesn't know what to think about Nog and Roa; votes Mac because Inzil's arguments looked best.

Post 6: Apologizes for his hasty Mac vote earlier; promises to be more careful.

Post 7: Summarizes Mac's posts; says Pitchie looked just as suspicious

Post 8: Says he won't be voting; promises to post more on Day 3 if he's still here.

He hasn't come on again, but when you look at him, he never really says anything...might just be newbieness, might be wolfishness. As he's my top suspect,

++Bes

So sorry if you're innocent...

Whoa, what happened to Lommie being your top suspect? :eek: That’s a switch!

All in all I’m very confused by Lottie and very concerned. The trouble with this is that the more I look at Lottie the worse she looks to me, and yet there’s people I’m more worried about. Gah, I hate being so torn; this is why I voted for her yesterday, because she looks completely strange and rather guilty and obviously those are the types I automatically suspect. (Wow, that sentence got away from me.) Moral of the story is that yes, I want to lynch her, because I think she’s got insane amounts of guilt and fur, but I will agree with the others who stated it that, on the off chance she’s telling the truth, I’ll save her until toMorrow and worry about others. But Lottie, don’t think you’re off the hook.

*A note: Sorry for the lack of bolding and stuff. I've really got to get a move on, but if I've the chance I'll be going back and fixing the formatting when I get to the office. In advance, as always, no actual content will be changed. Just an fyi.

satansaloser2005

12-04-2009, 07:34 AM

A list in order:

Lottie
Lommie (?)
Nerwen

Shasta, you should be well aware of this list, because you're really close to it. Nienna too but not so much based on a few observations I've made, so I'll back off of her for a bit and look at others.

Nogrod

12-04-2009, 07:38 AM

Some random notes while reading myself up to date...

Mac, do you see a pattern: almost anyone who votes you or suspects you is suspicious to you? You should know better... :)

Even if it is possible Nienna and Lottie are both innocents (or that Lottie has that secret role) I still don't like what they do. First Nienna makes a careful whitewashing of Lottie - I mean not open or straightforward but kind of discreet one and calling for new suspects immediately after the "reveal", then Lottie says this...
Nienna seems good. She's one of the ones I feel most confident about...not that that's very confident...I just feel bad about this.

And Lottie's list of suspiciouns and trust seems to basically run counter to mine so I naturally look at her with suspicious mind... Not to say that her vote doesn't look very good either. She appears to pull Bes out from a hat and makes a hasty last fifteen minute analysis. Not good.

Btw, I'm slightly concerned about this jump on Nienna. Yes, she tried to save Mnemo twice, but that doesn't make her automatically guilty. I've seen plenty of innocents get lynched in the past for this reason and because of that, the wolves could easily set Nienna up to be toDay's lynch, so let's not jump to conclusions.How do the wolves set up her if she herself makes the votes? Or how do they do that because "plenty of innocents have been lynched that way"?

I don't think Nienna is "automatically guilty" or assume that those voting for Mnemo are obviously innocent. And I'm not sure anyone does that (I see Eomer cleared that up already...). So why do you Brinn wish to make it look like people thought like that?

Hmm...I'm not convinced. The problem with the secret role is that it's so much easier for a baddie to get away with a fake reveal since we don't know what the role is. One dream for the entire game? A limited seer is certainly possible, though I honestly expected more from a secret role.Exactly my thoughts as well. And the problem is we have no way of confirming or disproving whatever she says toMorrow leaving us with the worst scenario two wolves as "revealed innocents" (herself and whoever she reveals) - and by drawing the ranger to protect her the next Night she'd give the wolves a free kill the next Night... well that is if she is a wolf.

It might be something clever wolves could have planned last Night even though I'm the first one to take that kind of rthings with a pinch of salt: we oftentimes imagine wolves making much grander plans they actually do. But anyway.

While I'm still not sure whether to believe Loslote's claim, I will give her the benefit of the doubt for toDay and see what dream she comes up with toMorrow. It'd be pretty silly to lynch her now with the chance that she is telling the truth. I wonder if there'll be a counter reveal...Without a counter-reveal I think we have no other chance... But the problem is that if the other role is cobbler-like or in anyway evil-leaning there will be none - and if it is a strong role for good there will be none either... :confused:

I'm not suggesting lynching Lottie toDay unless some serious counter-reveals emerge, but I'm really quite confused and untrusting of her right now.

Nooo, there are so long new ones... just a moment.

wilwarin538

12-04-2009, 07:52 AM

Within 40 minutes Mnemo changes from "don't really feel suspicious of her," to "fairly ok with."
#381 votes Boro (ties me with Mnemo), as she previously stated

.....

Look at #363 too when she's trying to figure out who to vote, Mnemo's got 2 and everyone else has 1. She doesn't want to add another name, so she looks at everyone with votes. Trying to figure out who would be a good one to tie Mnemo with, but by the time you go and vote you realize you've only said I'm making you "uneasy?" Besides, throwing a random "maybe Pitch" in there? I have no reservations about calling wilwa a wolf.

First, what really is the difference between "not really suspicious" and "fairly ok"??? You're making it sound like that's some huge jump, but really it's not, they're practically the same. And I wasn't suspicious enough of Mnemo to vote for her, so of course whoever I would have voted for would have caused a tie with her, it's just the way it was when I wanted to vote, and there was no way I was bringing someone else into the mix. Would you have rathered I voted for her when I wasn't suspicious of her?? Cause that wouldn't have made me look bad at all :rolleyes: It seems no matter how logical my first vote is in a game, it always manages to make me look bad, I swear I'm cursed.

About Lottie's reveal, I'm not really sure about it. First, a 1 dream seer, and on Night 4, doesn't really seem like that great of a secret role (no offense to Mr. Mod if it really is the secret role). Second, she wasn't yet in that much danger of being lynched, so I think that decision was a little rushed. And the Ranger thing isn't guaranteed, what if the Ranger protected Lottie last Night, or we lynch the Ranger today by accident? She's not guaranteed safety. I'm not saying I completely don't believe her, but the whole thing just seems a bit weird. But I suppose there's nothing more to do then to just wait it out.

So.....I don't really feel all that suspicious of anyone, which I hate and it always seems to be the same way with me every game. :rolleyes: Just Nog a bit, but really just because of the way Mnemo felt about him, not really anything else, so not anything concrete there and then Boro uneasiness, which I won't pursue anymore for now because 1) I don't have anything concrete, I'm aware of that fact, and 2) no one else seems to be finding anything wrong with him so I'm probably just imagining things. Basically, I have no ideas and I have to vote within the next 2 hours. So....I need to go read everything again.

Now don't jump on me if I come back in an hour or two *suddenly* suspecting someone. :rolleyes:

edit: x'ed with Nog and Sally x3

Boromir88

12-04-2009, 07:59 AM

After I'm done with this I'm really going to have to whip you two (sally and Nog) into shape.

What are you trying to prove contesting her reveal? If you're the Limitted seer secret-role than come out with it already, but if you aren't you're not proving anything by going through post-by-post of hers and saying that before the reveal she wasn't making sense to you, therefor you doubt believing her.

Here's the deal.

1. The wolves lost one of their own 1st-lynch. If you think they're going to throw another out there the next day, that's real brass.

2. She disclosed details about the role. When wolves make a fake reveal how much detail do you think they want to get into? That's rhetorical, but I'll say it anyway, as little as possible. She said, I'm a limitted seer, I get one dream on Night-4. That kind of specifics about the role proves (at least to me) she's not a wolf, because when making fake reveals wolves like to stay away from specifics, since they're full of crap.

3. She gets her dream, if she says she's got a wolf, we lynch. That person is a wolf, we're all good. If not we lynch Lottie next day. If she reveals an innocent and Lottie (or the "known" innocent) doesn't get killed soon we lynch her.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me. Like I said, perhaps based on what happened yesterday she may not have been a major suspect today. However, the fact is she was yesterday, we already know she can't be on that often and she doesn't want to risk it...and if she's a special role that has 1-dream, I'm glad she isn't risking it, especially with the way you two are acting about it.

sally, I think you grossly exaggerate some of your analysis of her too, which I will get to eventually, but I'm returning back to the more useful thing I was doing.

Nerwen

12-04-2009, 08:12 AM

My apologies for lack of participation toDay– I've been working to a deadline.

I'll need to vote shortly and won't have time to do any proper analyses, so I'll just be picking someone who looks generally suspicious.

I haven't read the latest posts yet– back soon.

satansaloser2005

12-04-2009, 08:16 AM

Boro, you have to keep in mind that this is exactly what wolves do; they lie. And if they are in a "cri-ice-is" as Mister Punny would say, they'll take advantage of any....well, advantage. If there's a secret role they can make up as much as they like and no one (except for the secret role, and who believes second reveals most of the time anyway?) could contest them.

And besides, keep this in mind. Who's to say that the secret role isn't a modified wolf? (Think of Shasta's game where there was a seer wolf, etc.) Lottie could be telling the truth and still be evil.

Speaking of whipping into shape, I'm surprised you didn't consider that.:confused:

ETA: x'd with Nerwen

satansaloser2005

12-04-2009, 08:28 AM

By the way, I'll be busy most/all of the morning so I'll be only commenting in snippets if at all; apologies in advance. I'll be able to vote as far as I know, but this is just an FYI in case I'm kept away from my computer for a while.

Boromir88

12-04-2009, 08:38 AM

And besides, keep this in mind. Who's to say that the secret role isn't a modified wolf? (Think of Shasta's game where there was a seer wolf, etc.) Lottie could be telling the truth and still be evil.

Speaking of whipping into shape, I'm surprised you didn't consider that.:confused:

Or maybe it's because I have you pegged as some type of modified cobbler role? One that gets to pick a name every so often to send to the wolves? I'll explain that out-lost-in-the-tundra theory in a bit, because you should know I have your posting interactions with Mnemo down, I just need to finish the rest.

But I will entertain your what-if she's a wolf-seer. If she's wolf-seer it would be totally idiotic to throw herself out there like she did. If she's revealing innocents and not dead after 2 days (as in killed by the wolves dead) then she would be lynched.

There is a fine line between stating your doubts about any reveal, and why, and doing a post-by-post analysis to try and discredit her reveal based on you don't like how she's been playing, or she isn't making sense in her reasons/votes.

Boromir88

12-04-2009, 08:43 AM

Oh I kind of forgot the other thing to blow the wolf-seer theory out of the water. There's stated 4 wolves + 2 secret roles. A wolf-seer would still be considered a wolf, thus not one of the secret roles. ;)

wilwarin538

12-04-2009, 09:13 AM

Ok, so a bit of a list here from me, I just read over Day 2 stuff, cause I don't have time to go all the way back to Day 1. And lots of Day 2 stuff had quotes from Day 1so I think I managed to get a pretty good understanding of everyone. Lots of this is off memory, so if something is wrong I apologise, and I'm pretty sure I have everyone here:

Nienna: Day 1 she voted for Inzil because she didn't want Mnemo or Mac to be lynched, but she was suspicious of Lommy. She later explained that it was because she wanted her vote to actually contribute to something, and not be a throw-away type thing. Day 2 she mentions she thinks the RoaNog thing was maybe innocent-on-innocent, which is a pretty wide assumption, so nothing really strange there (though Mnemo also thought this). She votes Lommy Day 2, which was in a sense a bit of a throw-away, which is what she was trying to avoid Day 1, and it could have still been an attempt to save Mnemo without looking like she was trying to save Mnemo (since Lottie actually have more votes then Lommy at this time). Over all there are a few things that look kinda bad, but then some that don't. I'm half and half about her right now.

Pitch: After re-reading some of his stuff I see that my considering to vote for him yesterDay was not just random, it was conrete suspicion, but it wasn't out of the blue either. His votes are a little off, Day 1 he tied Mac with Mnemo, and Day 2 he was the 5th to vote for Mnemo, so that could be wolf-on-wolf voting. His posts all seem very hesitant to me, which is why that stood out to me yesterDay. Very agreeable, but also not necessarily unhelpful or anything. So he is making me a bit wary.

Morsul: His self vote was odd, and his posts kinda make me iffy, cause lots of them are just quotes with like 1 sentence responses, which makes him look far more helpful then he might actually be. But nothing really strong is making me suspect him, so I think I'll let him be for now.

Lommy: I'm very torn about. She kept mentioning how she didn't like how "jumpy" people were, but then I found she kinda was, or atleast more flippy-floppy, lots of her sentences kinda sounded like "Well what X did looks really bad, but then again..." and that sort of thing, almost like she was trying to agree with people who found certain players suspicious, while still trying to agree with the people who found those same players innocent (savvy?). Even though her votes were both for Mnemo, it could still be wolf-on-wolf. So she's up there for me.

Boro: I've talked enough about, gonna take my attention elsewhere for now.

Shasta: His votes are weird, he protected Mnemo Day 1, but otherwise I see nothing wrong witih him. So I'm fairly good here.

Lottie: Gonna let her be to test out this reveal of hers.

Sally: Also had weird votes similar to Shasta, I always have a hard time getting a lock on her and usually just let her be, but this time I think I'm gonna keep a closer eye on her.

Nogrod: Mnemo being sure about him and his intense suspect of Roa are about the only things I didn't like here, but Mnemo was just as sure about Roa who was innocent, and the Roa vs Nog thing is fairly normal. Unsure here.

Mac, Nerwen, Eomer, Bes, Brinn & Greenie: all have not really stood out to me, so I'm gonna take that as a positive for now

So overall (lists in no specific order):

Most uneasy
Pitch
Lommy

Kinda uneasy
Nienna
Boro
Sally

Totally unsure
Morsul
Lottie
Nogrod

Good with/under reindeer
Shasta
Mac
Nerwen
Bes
Eomer
Brinn
Greenie