WW LXXIX: Fall From Olympus

[Nerwen]

It was said more than once that if I were Dionysus (which, apparently, I was), that would explain for the way I played throughout the game. Will you please tell me how exactly you mean that I played? You see, I played my very best for the good of the gods, I really, trully did. I dreaded being turned the entire time, for I have a hard time changing loyalties like that, and I was actually really upset about being changed at the last minute.
It's hard to explain. You just played like you had a guilty secret, somehow. I know you didn't play cobbler; it isn't that.

*sigh* From the moment I saw Shasta and Nerwen's hints, I knew they were going to come back to bite us. But in fairness to them, they rreally did need to get in contact with each other.
Eh? I never dropped any hints. What would be the point?

And I'd just like to say I quite liked my role. God of war suits me very well, I think....
Believe it or not, that's the first thing that crossed my mind when your role was revealed.:p

[Rikae]

Nerwen:

Nerwen and Nogrod - to be honest, I think they're the standard two innocent vs. innocent that generally appear during day one. The light of my life is smarter than to openly announce that she's Hades, I think.
Thank you.


I read this as "Roger, wolf tower". :p

[satansaloser2005]

I read this as "Roger, wolf tower". :p

Snerk. How'd I miss that one (if it was in fact a hint)? *headdesks*


Also, Foley, I agree with Nerwen. I didn't think you were trying to be evil or that you were trying to trick the village, but you clearly had something to hide.

[Loslote]

I read this as "Roger, wolf tower". :p

This made my day. ^.^

As for pms:

From : Inziladun
To : Loslote
Date : 2010-07-25 05:57
Title : Re: O Eros...
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Ya know how Artemis and Eros get to pm? ... I think you can figure out what I'm going to say from that... :p

Okay, strategy time! Eventually (I'm thinking towards the end) we should sacrifice one of us to try and take out a wolf. Can't leave it up to those silly villagers, can we now? :p And, since you've got the protecting thing as well, probably sacrifice me - if I survive Day 1, that is, and we both know how unlikely that is. :rolleyes: :p

Why hello, Artemis!

Glirdy forgot to tell me initially that we could PM. I'm assuming it's only during the Night Phase. At least I won't be trying to lynch you Day 1 this time. ;)
Yeah, ultimately both of our main purposes are to die in the hopes we can take a wolf with us. If I remember correctly, I think I only get my kill if the wolves come after me. You get yours Day or Night don't you?
There are really two good ways to invite a wolf-kill. The first is obvious: leave Gifted hints. The second is to be someone who isn't suspected by the mob and thus wouldn't leave much of a trail. I tend to have a hard time staying out of the thick of things and wolves like to try and lynch me when I'm on the good side, but with this many players maybe you and I both can make it a few days. :rolleyes:
Maybe I could try keeping a lower profile to make myself more of an inviting target for a Night-kill. Would you want to leave some Gifted hints to get them to come after you, or would you rather try to get yourself lynched once we get some ideas who the wolves might be?

-Inzil

From : Inziladun
To : Loslote
Date : 2010-07-25 15:42
Title : Re: O Eros...
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I'll drop Gifted hints; I have a history of being unable to shut my mouth when I'm Gifted, so they'll hopefully believe that I'm Gifted. We could potentially try a "Lottie pretends to be Gifted so that the wolves will kill her while Zil protects her and thus causes the wolves to lose a Night-kill." Then they'd guess that I wouldn't be protected the next Night and attack me again so I'd get my Hunt...we'd have to wait until after the Ranger is gone for that to work, though.

I get my Hunt for sure if I'm Night-killed and fifty percent of the time if I'm lynched, decided by coin flip.

I think that might be a good plan. We certainly want to be Night-killed instead of lynched, both of us. I say let's just both try to make it through Day 1 for now and then we can take stock on who the wolves might be and refine things.

- Eros


From : Inziladun
To : Loslote
Date : 2010-07-25 16:39
Title : Re: O Eros...
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Excellent. If one of us is in danger of being lynched, should we try to save each other or no? If we did, we'd be in real danger of being Night-killed very early... Or we could use Boro's tactic of blatantly bandwaggoning, which starts an anti-bandwaggon. Or we could play it by ear, which usually works better anyway. :p

If one of us is on the block, it wouldn't hurt for the other to argue mildly against the lynch. That way, if whoever it was did get lynched, the one who spoke against it could look like a possible Seer, and like you said, be a likely choice for their Night-kill.
Playing it by ear probably is the best option though, at least this early. ;)


From : Inziladun
To : Loslote
Date : 2010-07-25 20:04
Title : The Gods Must Be Crazy
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Which is a pretty funny movie, by the way. :D

Well, Lottiemis, I don't guess we can do much in the way of concrete plans til Night 2. Maybe by then we'll have some ideas to roll with on who's who. Let's just try to get through the first Day. If you're in trouble, I'll speak against your lynching, and obviously I won't vote for you. If you do get lynched, pick a wolf and hope the coin-toss goes our way!
I asked Glirdan for a firm answer on whether we could only PM at Night, cos it didn't say one way or the other in his PM to me. I haven't got a response yet, but I'm assuming it's only Night.
It's bedtime for me now. I'll be at work during the first half of the Day, but I'll try to pop in when I can.
Good luck!

-Inzil


From : Inziladun
To : Loslote
Date : 2010-07-27 05:21
Title : Re: If The Gods Must Be Crazy, What Does That Make The Goddesses?
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Tum is a wolf. I'm rather sure. I don't trust Mac, but I'm not as sure about him. I think Nog is probably a wolf, too, but that's just occured to me and I haven't thought as much about him.

If you don't object, I'll probably hunt Tum toNight.

I don't think you're in much danger of being killed toNight.

So what are your thoughts?

Just now got to work and skimmed through the thread. That's a lot of bloody posts for a Day 1! Ordinarily, I like to stick around to DL to see how other people behave as it gets close, but in this game I just can't do it.
I really didn't want to vote BG, but she invites it so! :(

Nog looked fairly good early on, but he did start to give me an uneasy feeling toward the end of the Day. Like I said in the thread, I always want to lynch Mac anyway because he constantly gives me bad vibes, but he doesn't look particularly evil now. And tum? Yes. I think she looks pretty bad.
What do you think of Nienna and her vote for Eönwë? That was pretty safe, I think. And Boro?
I wonder who I should protect toNight. Can you think of anyone who might have given the wolves some fear? If not, I may stick with someone who looks like a no-trail kill, like kath, or Greenie.

- Inzil


From : Inziladun
To : Loslote
Date : 2010-07-27 10:49
Title : Re: If The Gods Must Be Crazy, What Does That Make The Goddesses?
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Kath or Greenie'd be good choices. I don't know if the wolves would kill Kath first, though - she's been away so long, it seems rude to kill her so quick. I may be wrong, but I don't think the wolves would kill one of the returning vetrans. I can't think of anyone they'd need to kill, though.

Speaking of the Night-kill, if they do kill me, I'm hunting Tum. If I die overNight, please don't let Nog get away.

I may make my save Greenie. I wasn't all that impressed by her reasoning for voting Mac, but it could have been, like my vote, a result of having to vote earlier than most. If you think Boro's probably innocent, I wonder if I might not should consider him too. If I was a wolf, he might well be one of my kill-choices just cos he's Boro, and dangerous.
If tum is indeed a wolf, I think it's almost certain Nog is. Their interactions, especially she toward him, were very strange. If I'm killed by wolves, he'll be my hunt unless something changes.

From : Inziladun
To : Loslote
Date : 2010-07-27 11:05
Title : Re: If The Gods Must Be Crazy, What Does That Make The Goddesses?
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Boro, I think, is confusing enough that the wolves would either kill him just to relieve a headache or leave alive just because they might think he's a lover or something. I wouldn't kill him as a wolf, because he's too easy to get lynched. Same thing with Sally - unless the wolves have a really good reason, I'd be surprised if they killed off such easily framed players.

Hmm. Maybe Nienna might be a save choice as well. I don't guess it would have been wise for her, as a wolf, to criticise my vote for BG, when Nienna herself voted Eönwë even though she admitted he was probably innocent. Killing her might occur to the wolves as a way to frame me, too.


Here is where it is proven that Zil makes a better Ranger than I do. Ups.

From : Inziladun
To : Loslote
Date : 2010-07-27 11:55
Title : Re: If The Gods Must Be Crazy, What Does That Make The Goddesses?
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That's a possibility, but then, she could be framed herself. She's a more likely choice, in my opinion, than Boro or Sally, but I'd still say probably Greenie would be a better choice. Nienna certainly wouldn't be a bad choice, though...

I'll probably make it Greenie, then.
If we're both still around toMorrow, do you want to focus on getting tum lynched?


Should I start throwing Gifted hints toMorrow? And if so, which Gifted should I hint as?

Well, you threw out suspicion on both tum and Nog didn't you? If either of them is a wolf, which seems likely, the wolves might already be considering you as a Seer target.
Had a thought, though: how did you react yesterDay to all that about Eönwë and Dionysus? Did you say anything to the effect that you believed he was the Cursed? If not, I was thinking you could give very subtle Cursed hints, perhaps? What do you think of that?


From : Inziladun
To : Loslote
Date : 2010-07-27 14:10
Title : Re: If The Gods Must Be Crazy, What Does That Make The Goddesses?
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No, I said that I thought he was Cursed and even voted for him. Otherwise it'd be a good idea, but as it is, Seer's probably the best way to go.

Ah, well. I haven't been looking as closely at you in-game, already knowing your role and all. :D

If I focus on Tum but mention sporatically that I suspect Nog, they might get worried that Seer!me would dream Nog and get him lynched the next Day. Especially if I do a complete flip on my opinion of Steve...it'd look like I dreamed Tum Night 1, Steve Night 2, and am going to dream Nog Night 3. You know, this could very well work!

Sounds good. I think it's the best option at this point.
I'm still ruminating on my save. I was almost set on Greenie, then I wondered if indeed they'd go after Eönwë toNight after all? Granted, if there was no kill he'd be immediately suspected, but that would oblige the village to spend an extra Day lynching him, and there would still be four wolves.


Here starts the Great Plan That Failed. It was fun to plan, though.

From : Inziladun
To : Loslote
Date : 2010-07-27 15:46
Title : Re: If The Gods Must Be Crazy, What Does That Make The Goddesses?
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Then again, if Nog is a wolf, he'd know that he played a major part in Steve's being seen as Cursed. If Steve is proven innocent, then Nog's in a bit of trouble. Also, Pan might think to save Steve, too, just in case. I'd still say go with Greenie.

Good points, and I'd forgotten about Pan. Greenie it is. I've just sent it in.


From : Inziladun
To : Loslote
Date : 2010-07-27 18:50
Title : Fingers Crossed...
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The wolves could be after me as a lynch toMorrow, but I don't see how the innocents could really think I look worse than tum and Nog! If I get pushed into it though, I'll have to reveal and hope they believe me.
Good luck, and happy hunting!

-InzilEros


From : Inziladun
To : Loslote
Date : 2010-07-27 19:06
Title : Re: Fingers Crossed...
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If I make a big enough stink about Tum, I'm sure they'll have a hard time convincing everyone to lynch you. A "seer" frantically insisting to leave you be and lynch Tum would take priority over the supposed dreamed wolf insisting to leave her be and lynch you. Besides, it was a early vote. The later, bandwagony votes look far worse.

You're probably right. Just don't be too overt with your hints. There's not one, but two people who think they're the real Seer, and I'd hate for one of them to decide you're a wolf. :rolleyes:

From : Inziladun
To : Loslote
Date : 2010-07-27 19:49
Title : Re: Fingers Crossed...
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Ah, but that's why there's a chance that it'll work! Both Seers know there's someone else out there who's a Seer, too - and they don't know who it is. They'll both think it has to be me, because they don't know about the other! Of course, they'll realize that I'm just silly when Sir ModGod reveals that I'm Artemis, but until then, I might as well be Hermes or Apollo. Artemis is Apollo's twin, after all. It's only fitting that I steal that particular role. :p

So devious and resourceful- I very much approve. :)
Well, good luck to us, and to the village. With luck we'll get tumwolf lynched at least.
But now it's past bedtime for us old timers. ;) See you on the thread (hopefully).

Good Night!


From : Inziladun
To : Loslote
Date : 2010-07-29 04:21
Title : Re: Pardon me while I go scream or something
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Right. Well, that was pretty much an unmitigated disaster. Plan didn't work because of Boro's death - who I even advised you not to protect! - and I forgot I wasn't even going to be around enough to pursue Tum and Nog and, when it finally started looking up, we kill Steve instead of Nog! Gaaaaaaaah.

Now, trying to regain a semblance of intelligence...:rolleyes:

I don't think I should hunt Nog toNight. He'll be easier to lynch toMorrow than the others. Tum again, do you think?

Pretty frustrating, I agree, I was kicking myself for not saving Boro. And then I couldn't be around most of the Day. I tried to lay out the best case I could on tum, but no one seemed to be interested (at least not until after I went to bed :rolleyes:). What did you think of tum's response to what I said?
I imagine Nog probably will be the target toMorrow. But you know, his last post of the Day made him look a bit better to me, for some reason.
If not Nog for your hunt, you could do tum. Do you have any other wolf candidates? I'm wondering about some of the ones who've slipped under the radar and haven't been controversial. Sally, maybe, or Kath.
I was thinking of saving KeeperMira toNight. Boro had made that odd remark to her which looked like a hint, so I wonder if the wolves might not be inclined to take her out to be on the safe side.


From : Inziladun
To : Loslote
Date : 2010-07-29 17:46
Title : Re: Day Three Plans
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I can usually read Sally pretty well, once she starts talking. I wouldn't worry too much about her yet. I wouldn't be suprised if one of Foley, Lalaith, or Kath (the people I've never played with) were wolves.

I've been wondering about Foley myself. She's an unknown quantity to me also. I've played with Kath, but I don't think I've seen her as a wolf. Lalaith can be very effective as a baddie. The only other time I played with her we were packmates. I was lynched, and she went on to win the game. Technically, anyway. She doesn't feel particularly evil yet though.

Keepandir of Dol Mira would be a good choice, I think. She's quiet enough that it wouldn't frame anyone, and with the Boro thing...

Right, then. I'll leave it with her.

I'm not sure yet who I'm going to hunt, on the off chance they target me toNight. If you're going with tum, I may make mine Nienna or Mac.

I'd suggest Mac, mostly because I don't really suspect Nienna. You can, I think, send him a pm ahead of time saying "if I die, kill x." That's what he has me do - although in my case, I'm usually online at dl.

Good enough. Mac is starting to worry me.
Are you going to try to lynch tum toMorrow, or Nog? I think Nog will indeed be easier.

Well, we got something right, at least.

From : Inziladun
To : Loslote
Date : 2010-07-31 06:18
Title : Re: :eek:
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Well, well, well...we were very off target. Tum's the One True Seer after all. Rikae must be a wolf, then - and we'll have to hope Hestia chose Tum, not Boro (although I do think it's more likely xe chose Boro.)

Insanity! She was so consistantly inconsistant for three Days! I've never been a Seer, but if I was, I think I'd do my best to be the "grey" man, and not attract attention from anyone, at least until I'd dreamed a wolf. I agree that Hestia probably did pick up on Boro's apparent Seer hints and decided to pick him. I see no reason xe would have chosen Tum.

I don't know why The Phantom trusts me so adamently. I suppose it's because of my 'prentending to be a "seer pretending to be a hunter so I don't get Night-killed" so that I would get Night-killed' line Day 2. The idea being, no Hunter in her right mind would actually say that. I don't think it quite worked, though. :rolleyes:

His adamant statements that you were innocent made me think he might be the Seer. I don't know what to make of him now. Could he be Athena, which could give him the ability to know your role?

Can we trust Pan to protect Tum toNight? Even if we can, though, I don't really have any suggestions as to who you could protect.

Well, there are two Rangers in the picture, which makes it more difficult for the wolves than usual. But if Pan and I both protect her toNight neither of us can the next Night. Pan should know this, and the wolves almost certainly do as well. Ordinarily, as a Ranger I couldn't take a chance like that and leave a revealed Seer unprotected, but in this case one of us has to. It's a gamble, to be sure, since I'm banking on either Pan protecting Tum or the wolves not daring to go after her toNight. It really puts us Rangers in a bind more so than the wolves! :rolleyes:
If not Tum, who? A submairine like Kath? Greenie, again? Kath's looking less likely as a wolf, cos it's hard for me to see a wolf being so uninvolved. Plus, in my mind, that's a cheap way for a wolf to get a victory. I'm considering tp also.
For my hunt, I might go for Nienna, or maybe Nerwen. Nienna's been on my radar for a while, and I think Nerwen might look worse now that we know Nog was innocent.
Speaking of Nog, if I read the rules, correctly, if Glirdan picks BG or Steve out of the hat, xe and Nog will return. As ordos in BG's case I would assume, thought that isn't clear. But at least there will be two more known innocents. If Boro is picked (being the False Seer), no one comes back.

Thoughts?

Oh, and *happy dances* you saved Mira! :D

Thanks! It was nice to make them miss a kill. :)


From : Inziladun
To : Loslote
Date : 2010-07-31 14:16
Title : Re: :eek:
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All right. I've spent the past couple of hours looking back over the entire game thread. I gave the people with unknown identities pluses for things I thought which particularly spoke for their innocence, and minuses for things that made them look potentially lupine. Here's what I came up with. I'd like to know what you think.

Wilwa: - 2 (Posts 408 and 628)
Kath: Neutral
Nienna: - 2 (Posts 526 and 622). Also, in 622 she says Rikae is "helpful", "logical", and "consistant".
Nerwen: - 1 (Post 255)
Folwren: + 2
Lalaith: + 1
Greenie: - 2 (Posts 109 and 114)
Shasta: + 1
Mac: + 2
phantom: + 3
Sally: + 1, - 2 (posts 784 and 820)

I'm probably wrong about a great deal of it, but what are you gonna do? :rolleyes:

I don't know why The Phantom trusts me so adamently. I suppose it's because of my 'prentending to be a "seer pretending to be a hunter so I don't get Night-killed" so that I would get Night-killed' line Day 2. The idea being, no Hunter in her right mind would actually say that. I don't think it quite worked, though. :rolleyes:

His adamant statements that you were innocent made me think he might be the Seer. I don't know what to make of him now. Could he be Athena, which could give him the ability to know your role?

...I think you might be right. I thought I was going to be killed yesterDay - I got the last vote and was tied with Nog - and I guessed that Glirdy just counted Nerwen's late vote. Athena's extra vote would explain that...I think you're on to something there.

I also noticed in my readthrough that tp said in # 488 that he had "no feelings" about you, and in 575 he merely said "Lottie's entrance was not bad". I wonder if that doesn't speak against his being Athena, since he doesn't look to be so sure about you the whole time. But why else would he become so certain of you? He really doesn't seem like a wolf, though I freely admit I have no idea what a wolftom is like.
As for the vote that saved you, didn't Glirdy say that he wasn't paying attention to the time stamp and counted Nerwen's vote even though it was late?

Kath didn't vote yesterDay, did she? The wolves might hold off on killing her, in case she gets modfired. Greenie could be a good idea, or tp.

Kath did vote the Day before, so I don't think she's in danger of a modfire just yet. And that level of inactivity would be a nice no-trial kill, I think. As for Greenie, my readthrough made me wonder about her.

I've still not looked closely at Nienna, but I tend to trust her. I'd say Nerwen more than Nienna just because of that, but either way is fine by me. I don't think we should hunt Wolfkae, though - better to lynch her. I don't know who I'm going to hunt yet, mostly because all of my suspects have been all but cleared yesterDay (I say all but because I'm still uncertain about Mac). How are you feeling about Lalaith? She's jumping out at me as being suspicious, but I've never played with her before.

We certainly shouldn't hunt Rikae. Since Tum was proven correct about Nog, Rikae should be the only lynch on the plate toMorrow.
Mac looks better to me than he did. Lalaith didn't really stand out to me, and actually got a plus. Trouble is, she makes a very innocent-acting wolf. Like I said, the previous game I played with her both of her packmates, Fea and I, were dead by Day 2. And she manged to make it all the way to the end by herself. That was Mnemo's Cottage of Lost Play game, if you want to see what she looks like as a baddie.


From : Inziladun
To : Loslote
Date : 2010-07-31 19:25
Title : 'Tis Done
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Just sent in my picks. My save is tp and my hunt is Nienna.
Like I said, I doubt we'll have to worry about getting lynched toMorrow; it seems a pretty open and shut case against Rikae. With luck, Tum will still be with us and will have a dream to share, with at least a known innocent. I only hope it's not someone we already know, like one of us or Mira. It's possible they get after her toNight again, but there's nothing I can do about that.
I should have most of the Day toMorrow for the game. However, I'm going out of town for three days starting Monday, and my internet access will be questionable. I'll do my best to at least vote on Day 5, but I don't know how much more I'll be around. I'm coming back home Thursday, so if I'm still alive I can post Day 6. I'm going to put this on the Admin Thread as well.
If you get in a bind after Rikae's gone and you're about to get lynched, don't forget to give Mira up as a known innocent just before DL. I'd do the same if DL wasn't about 4 hours after I go to bed. :rolleyes:
I actually thought about revealing toMorrow, but I was only going to do it if Nog had returned with a known innocent. I had such hopes: Nog, plus whoever returned with him, plus Tum. Then me, you, and Mira. 6 innocents, and a major headache for the wolves. Oh, well.
Anyway, let's do what we can toMorrow to try and ferret out Rikae's mates.

Good Night!

And, for kicks:

From : Boromir88
To : Loslote
Date : 2010-07-31 21:52
Title : Re: Your hunt
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You've been marked for death by them evil wolves. I'm opening the thread for Glirdan today, and need your kill choice por favor. :)

Alas, the foul wolves have picked the Night when I am least certain about anything. My mind wanders amidst dark, meandering...trail...things...

Oh, what the hey. I pick Wilwa. Good Night, O Wonderous Modly Glirdy and O Semi-Wonderous Deathly Boro.

Thank you. For not being certain, you should be quite pleased with the outcome. :D


Also, I've disabled smilies, because I didn't want to go through that and delete them.

[Lalaith]

Even though I was a wolf, I meant it when I said I was impressed by the Eros/Artemis combo. Saving Mira on the one hand and hunting Wilwa on the other was pretty impressive...
My worst day was my last. I felt awful about handing poor Foley the poisoned chalice, and I was desperate not to leave any kind of trail to her door. I realised that
a. the only possible remaining wolves were either myself, Folwren or Mira, but that
b. Folwren´s one possible hope for surviving the following day was to persuade the others that Mira was Dionysus, and so I couldn´t attack either of them.
I did have a wild idea that given that I was pretty sure Nerwen knew my identity, I could try to attack Folwren as a double bluff, but I was worried that the clever players that were left would see through that.
In the end I decided that the better part of discretion was valour and just made that one post. I did feel mean though.

[Boromir88]

Wow, I think by pure luck I managed to be the least disastrous false seer ever. My post to Mira was to try and confirm to myself as quickly as possible whether I was the real seer or not. I figured if she really was the Mytho hopefully she'd catch on and pick me, so it wouldn't matter whether I died, we'd still get a true seer (didn't think about the real Mytho, aka Kath, would possibly pick me then :rolleyes: ) . And if she had no clue what I was talking about, then I know I'm the fake seer, and it's all about still trying to look like the real one and dying as quickly as possible.

As far as my Zeus comments to the phantom, that is really hilarious because it was completely accidental. My real hint in the first post was a reference Hermes for those familiar with the Disney movie. :p

[Nerwen]

Nerwen:
I read this as "Roger, wolf tower". :p
Oh, yeah, I'd forgotten about that. But I actually didn't guess him that Night, because then I started thinking, oh, it couldn't be this easy, so I went for Wilwa instead.

[wilwarin538]

Oh, yeah, I'd forgotten about that. But I actually didn't guess him that Night, because then I started thinking, oh, it couldn't be this easy, so I went for Wilwa instead.

Why though? Haha, did I leave some hints without realising?

As far as my Zeus comments to the phantom, that is really hilarious because it was completely accidental.

Ahaha, that is so funny. Cause in that post you used the word 'antsy' and Phantom got all into the mythology and how Zeus made a bunch of dudes from ants. :P

Oh, what the hey. I pick Wilwa. Good Night, O Wonderous Modly Glirdy and O Semi-Wonderous Deathly Boro.

Thank you. For not being certain, you should be quite pleased with the outcome. :D

Grrr. Lottie as a hunter is probably the worse thing ever for wolves, what with her being psychic and always knowing who we are. :rolleyes:

Even worse was that I didn't really want to kill Lottie. I wanted to kill Mira (who had been our choice the night before but had been saved by the ranger), since the chances of her being protected again were slim. But my other wolvies all wanted to kill Lottie so I went with the majority. I hope they feel bad. :p

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nerwen
Oh, yeah, I'd forgotten about that. But I actually didn't guess him that Night, because then I started thinking, oh, it couldn't be this easy, so I went for Wilwa instead.
Why though? Haha, did I leave some hints without realising?
Not exactly. You were just a little too jolly: "Oh, helloooo, boys and girls! Isn't this a splendid Day One we're having? How perfectly peachy everything is!"

I think I know my Wolfwa by now.:D;):p

[the phantom]

No time to say much at the moment, but I can explain the Tum kill briefly since I saw someone ask.

The good team had the true Seer, two Rangers to protect that Seer, a Hunter, a pair of Shirrifs, Athena (who knew a gifted), Demeter (who knew Persy), plus another possible true Seer (the Mythomaniac), plus one of the Rangers knew an innocent because of the save.

It was an impossible mountain for the baddies to climb, even if they had all been alive. But of course, Wilwa was dead and Rikae was the surefire lynch the next day, so it was basically two Wolves versus all of that firepower. If I had come over to the good side and used my kill on Shasta, then we're basically down to one single Wolf (Lalaith) versus all of those gifteds plus me and plus Nerwen with her dream. Ridiculous.

From the very beginning Wilwa and I were saying via IM that the baddies needed to catch some breaks right at the beginning if they hoped to have any chance at all due to the fact that they were facing an entire village of gifteds (I mean think about it- I've seen villages this size with only three gifteds versus four wolves, where as this village had a dozen or so!). A lover being lynched the first day was a blow to be sure, and when Wilwa died, the game had slaughter written all over it had I defected completely.

Not to mention it makes more sense for a lover to strike in anger against the side that actually killed their sweetheart, doesn't it?

[satansaloser2005]

Really, though, you're just a jerk. We all know it. ;)



By the way, in case everyone hadn't already figured it out, I of course knew Dun.

[Inziladun]

Oh, and Shasta? You need to link that post, 'cause I can't find it. That hint completely made my Day though. Of course I was hoping I could butter you up for a while (or that you'd just stay lurking in the shadows and that my precious Dun would kill you, but obviously that ddn't pan out) but again, somebody ruined my fun. Jerk. ;)

Meh, sorry about that. :o I remember considering Shasta for my hunt at one point, but he wasn't in the top three my last Night.

[satansaloser2005]

Meh, sorry about that. :o I remember considering Shasta for my hunt at one point, but he wasn't in the top three my last Night.

Yeah, that's why I more or less sold you out to the wolves. I was hoping you'd get killed and take one down, but then Greenie died instead and I felt a bit rubbish.

I'm assuming you caught my big hint of big? ;)

[Inziladun]

Yeah, that's why I more or less sold you out to the wolves. I was hoping you'd get killed and take one down, but then Greenie died instead and I felt a bit rubbish.

I'm assuming you caught my big hint of big? ;)

Eventually, when I stopped focusing on the wrong people. :rolleyes:

[Nerwen]

No time to say much at the moment, but I can explain the Tum kill briefly since I saw someone ask.

The good team had the true Seer, two Rangers to protect that Seer, a Hunter, a pair of Shirrifs, Athena (who knew a gifted), Demeter (who knew Persy), plus another possible true Seer (the Mythomaniac), plus one of the Rangers knew an innocent because of the save.

It was an impossible mountain for the baddies to climb, even if they had all been alive. But of course, Wilwa was dead and Rikae was the surefire lynch the next day, so it was basically two Wolves versus all of that firepower. If I had come over to the good side and used my kill on Shasta, then we're basically down to one single Wolf (Lalaith) versus all of those gifteds plus me and plus Nerwen with her dream. Ridiculous.

I thought that was it– I'm not sure what I'd have done in your place, actually. I don't like jeopardising my chances of winning, but then, the game was pretty unbalanced– it might have felt like a hollow victory.

I'm sorry if that comes across like a criticism of our Modgod– it's just that it is hard to make these experimental games fair to both sides.

[Glirdan]

I'm sorry if that comes across like a criticism of our Modgod– it's just that it is hard to make these experimental games fair to both sides.

It is difficult and I take no offense whatsoever. It was unbalanced, and I put the Wolves through hell and back again with this game. I tried finding ways of balancing things, but then RL stuff decided to rear it's ugly head in my face and knock me down a few notches.

Still, well played EVERYONE. It was kind amusing to read all of this and watch it all unfold.

On a passing note, I did want the Wolvsies to win by the way. And I was sorely disappointed when Wilwa was taken down because her and phantom were making a killer team.

None the less, I am quite happy with the turnout....Just looks like I need to get back into writing again. Some of my narrations were not as good as I would have liked them, with the exception of the select few of course (Foley, I will say, as long as it was to write yours, I had an absolute BLAST writing it! Definitely up there on my list :D)

[Loslote]

And I was sorely disappointed when Wilwa was taken down because her and phantom were making a killer team.

Beloved Yet Fearsome ModGod, I live to serve, you know that, but

*thbbbbt*

:p

[Boromir88]

This concept of a win feeling "unworthy" or "unjust" or that it has to be a "fair" win is just completely over my head.

Yes, as a mod you try to balance the game as best as you can, but in the end is it truly balanced? There's something that goes overlooked, maybe there's a mistake, or one side always starts with an advantage, whatever the case just think about it. It's like umping a baseball game. Human error, you make a bad call, do you compound the problem by purposefully making another bad call against the other team, to "even" out the number of bad calls? That doesn't make you a fair umpire, that just makes you incompetant.

This trend that every game has to come down to the final lynching for it to be a worthy game, a worthy win, because if it came down to the last lynching than it must have been truly balanced, I think is silly.

I doubt Mith liked having two of her wolves dreamt of and lynched the first two days, and then the third wolf lynched the next. It wasn't any imbalance, that's just how the game unfolded. She didn't say "naughty" village for lynching wolves the first 2 days, lemme even this up a bit. How is that any different from a player trying to evem a game out due to some perceived imbalance?

Wilwa, you died because your pack chose to kill the hunter. That was your choice, no offense met, but sorry your own tough luck. You didn't get a kill because of a ranger protection, again sorry your packs tough luck. Things didn't go the wolves way this time, that's how it unfolded. But maybe you should think about the wolves decisions first before declaring there's some kind of game imbalance.

And maybe the wolves started out in a tighter corner because of the number of gifteds in this game. Maybe they needed some luck to go their way to win, and clearly they didn't get that at the beginning. But how many times does the village need luck go their way to beat the wolves?

All this mid-game tinkering because Mods or someone else feels like one side got the short straw, (and forbid a game not being fair) is part of the recent decline. In poker, is it "fair" if my hand is KK, when someone else's is AA? Each game the village is dealt a hand, and the wolves theirs. You nut up, shut up, and just play the hand your dealt to the best that you can.

[Nerwen]

All this mid-game tinkering because Mods or someone else feels like one side got the short straw, (and forbid a game not being fair) is part of the recent decline. In poker, is it "fair" if my hand is KK, when someone else's is AA? Each game the village is dealt a hand, and the wolves theirs. You nut up, shut up, and just play the hand your dealt to the best that you can.
But Boro, the rules of a poker game aren't supposed to favour a particular "side" to begin with either. The WW equivalent of the "luck of the draw" would be more like who gets what role, or how successful a gifted's early random pick is. So I'm just saying– with all respect and gratitude for Glirdy's hard work– I do think this game was rather weighted against the wolves. At least until phantom zapped tum, anyway. It was that action of his I was (semi-)approving, rather than attacking Glirdan, in case you thought I was. (As I said, it really is hard to make experimental games even.)

Also, I– ahem!– do hope you're not referring to my recent game as part of the "decline"?:rolleyes:

[Folwren]

On a passing note, I did want the Wolvsies to win by the way. And I was sorely disappointed when Wilwa was taken down because her and phantom were making a killer team.


You did? That's interesting. I usually like it when the village wins. I've played before when the wolves won, and it wasn't nice. Throughout most of the game, I hoped the villagers would win this time....even after I'd been turned, I wasn't sure what I wanted.

Phantom, your explenation makes sense. I figured it was something along those lines, which was why I figured you must've been Zues, for no one else, that I knew of, would do it.

Nerwen and Sally - I think I understand what you're saying. I just need to play more, I think.

[Boromir88]

Also, I– ahem!– do hope you're not referring to my recent game as part of the "decline"?

Apologies if I've left that impression. My post wasn't intended as any negativity towards anyone or any game. It was my general feelings and inability to understand the feelings of the majority. I simply don't get why we should feel like if there's something imbalanced, we need to "fix" it and even it out.

Maybe with the number of gifteds this particular game did put the wolves at a disadvantage, but it wasn't an unforgivably, impossible imbalance, at the start. The reason the wolves got severely behind wasn't due to any "unfair" play. It was because the ranger stopped one of their kills, they then killed the hunter who made a correct guess (you saw Lottie's PM, she wasn't sure about her choice, it just happened to be Hera), and the seer dreamt of another one. They didn't get in that position because the game was imbalanced, they got there because of the play of the village. It's not any attack about the merits of the wolves, the fact is we've all played this game have good and bad games, no one needs to prove themselves here. But the wolves got quickly behind not because of a game imbalance, but because the events that unfolded.

Let me ask this, in this idea that we need to fix out all the imbalances. How was what happened fair to Tum? I don't mean to put anyone on the spot, tum probably really doesn't care, I don't know. But she was the seer, she did what she was supposed to she did her job. How is it fair to her that her own side punishes her for doing what she's supposed to do and has to be told "sorry, you're gone."

Or let's say this. I think a village with 3 wolves and a seer as gifted, the wolves actually start with a pretty good advantage. However, this seems to be generally accepted as a "balanced" game, so I'll say yes that's a balanced game. Now, Nerwen, what if the wolves are you phantom, and Fea, and the seer is a first-time seer? Is that still so even? And lets say the seer makes a slip that you catch, at night you alert your packmates, and first kill is the seer. Now, lets say next night, your packmates say to you, you know what we're such an awesome team we already started out at an advantage, their only gifteds gone...Nerwen we're going to kill you because this games so uneven now and we should balance this out. Would you think that's fair? But hey, it's for the sake of balance, so it has to be right?

I hope you can at least understand my position here. Try as we might, every game is going to skew things to favor one side. It's not our job to try to balance it out, it's our job to play the roles we're given. Should be that simple at least, because I'm not going to start thinking I should start holding back out of fear that performing the role that's given to me will unbalance the game and then I face retaliation from people who are supposed to be on my own team.

[Rikae]

Experimental games are often going to be unbalanced - it's the nature of the beast. I don't consider it such a bad thing: what's wrong with an additional challenge for one side once in a while? Still, I wouldn't necessarily say this game was unbalanced. Early on we wolves were quite confident, knowing we had, potentially, three lovers and a cursed on our side. It could very easily have ended up with a village more "cobbler" than innocent (which would have been fun to see).
Foley, if you want the village to win when you're a wolf... I don't know what to say. I mean, it kind of ruins the whole point of the game, know what I mean?

[satansaloser2005]

Well, look at the wolves (and their lovers) first of all.

Wilwa: veteran player
Phantom: veteran player, even if he doesn't play much
Shasta: veteran player
Nerwen: veteran player
Lal: veteran player, even if she doesn't play much anymore
BG: complete newbie


Now the gifteds.

Dun: veteran player
Lottie: newer player but old enough to be considered skilled
Tum: newbie, first time gifted if I remember correctly
Nienna: veteran player
Boro/Kath: both veterans, but they weren't really gifteds anyway


So we had essentially five veterans and a complete newbie up against two veterans, another experienced player, and a newbie. Of course I knew Dun and there was some severe gifted PMing between Lottie and Dun, but the wolves each had more or less two votes per person if they chose. Add to it the revenge kills and whatever else they had and for goodness' sake, they had power.


Really, I don't see how that's terribly unbalanced. Of course the way the game ended up going yes, it became that way, but Glirdan can't control the flow of the game, only the start of it. I think the game was as balanced as it could have been.


Also, let's not forget my first game, where I had six wolves. The village still won. My last game Nerwen dreamt three wolves in a row, including the freshly turned cursed I believe, and the game was over far too quickly for my liking. Mods can't predict what players might do or whom the village might lynch. It's impossible.


ETA: 3800 posts. Not like to 4000, and then victory! ;)

[Folwren]

Foley, if you want the village to win when you're a wolf... I don't know what to say. I mean, it kind of ruins the whole point of the game, know what I mean?

Yep, I do. Problem is, I played all but two rounds of the game an innocent bystander. I'm a very loyal type of person, and the entire role went against my grain of character. I did my best, you must understand, as soon as I was turned to a wolf, but when I first read the PM saying that Dionysus had been turned, I was pretty upset. I got over it and began plotting away. Inexperienced as I was, my plots went all astray and I ended up losing, and I was sad about that, too.

Or do you mean I should've played the entire game on the wolves side?

And to clarify, I've never played as a wolf and hoped that the village wins.

[Nerwen]

Really, I don't see how that's terribly unbalanced. Of course the way the game ended up going yes, it became that way, but Glirdan can't control the flow of the game, only the start of it. I think the game was as balanced as it could have been.


Also, let's not forget my first game, where I had six wolves. The village still won. My last game Nerwen dreamt three wolves in a row, including the freshly turned cursed I believe, and the game was over far too quickly for my liking. Mods can't predict what players might do or whom the village might lynch. It's impossible.

I don't mean unbalanced in terms of player-strengths, I mean in terms of roles n' rules. See, tum got Rikae and Lottie got Wilwa– that was good playing and good luck. But then the village found a loophole in the rules by which tum could be protected continuously, as long as the Rangers survived. That was, well, a loophole. Add to that the number of players who knew others' roles, and the fact that everyone had a unique role, and thus could basically find the wolves just by elimination.

Look, it's hard to discuss this without making it look like I'm jumping on Gllrdan. It's not that– if you run a complex game with a whole lot of new rules, it's a practical impossibility to think of everything (you, know, "even the very wise cannot see all ends" and all that). I'm just saying that I'm rather glad the phantom killed tum, as the endgame would have been lacking in drama otherwise. As it was, the village still won pretty easily.

Yep, I do. Problem is, I played all but two rounds of the game an innocent bystander. I'm a very loyal type of person, and the entire role went against my grain of character. I did my best, you must understand, as soon as I was turned to a wolf, but when I first read the PM saying that Dionysus had been turned, I was pretty upset. I got over it and began plotting away. Inexperienced as I was, my plots went all astray and I ended up losing, and I was sad about that, too.

Or do you mean I should've played the entire game on the wolves side?
Not necessarily– what if you'd never been turned? Some people just assume the Cursed will play for the wolves all along, but that really depends on the player.

[Lalaith]

I liked the way that everyone in the game had a role, and the wolf/lover pairings which did make things harder for the village at times.
The main glitches/issues as I saw them:
1. the fact that everyone had a role made things harder at the end-game. It was easy for innocents to hint or reveal their roles, if no-one came to gainsay they were kind-of proven innocent, so very hard for a wolf to hide.

2. The role of Demeter. As protector of Persephone, whose side is she on? Perhaps Greenie could elucidate how she felt about her role.


Btw - in retrospect, I wonder if Shasta and I could arguably have made things easier for ourselves if we had killed Nerwen rather than Nienna on Night 6. That way we could have also got a revenge kill. However, Nerwen will be glad to know that this option was never even discussed.

[A Little Green]

Thanks everyone for the game, and Glirdan for modding! It was wonderful to play with you guys. After I had died Agan revealed to me who the wolves were. My reaction was something like "Oh my. The village has no chance against that pack." Well, apparently it did, so hats off to us!

Mac, I'm sorry for pursuing you like that, but seeing as I knew Nerwen's role your reaction to her Hades comment did look suspicious. I have no idea how I could miss Shasta's Hades hint though! :o

2. The role of Demeter. As protector of Persephone, whose side is she on? Perhaps Greenie could elucidate how she felt about her role.I wondered about that myself, to the extent that I PM'd Glirdan and asked him whether my first goal was to protect Persephone or help the village to win. He said pretty much that should the two contradict one another I was free to do as I chose. Basically the way I thought about it I set getting Hades killed as my first priority (and look how well I succeeded :rolleyes: ) as his death would lead to Persephone becoming a total innocent again and thus my two goals would not contradict each other anymore.

[satansaloser2005]

You know what I want now, right? I want to go back to the library game and sacrifice a gifted or two (or three, for that matter). The wolves were so disadvantaged that I think we should award the evil side posthumous victory, since there was no one to even out the score for them. [/sarcasm]


Anyway, this game was super fun, even if Phantom was trying to drive me nuts most of the game. :)

ETA: To clarify, this is not a response to Nerwen. I never thought she was picking on Glirdan, for the record. And I agree that Tum being killed wasn't necessarily a bad thing. I just don't think Phantom should have necessarily taken it upon himself to do so.

ETA #2: I'll reply to Greenie at a later point. I'd had similar thoughts about the role earlier and wanted to ask her some things, but I'm too tired. ;)

[Blind Guardian]

I didn't realize at first that I was suppose to be hinting :P And thus I only got one hint out. I believe Nerwen saw it.