Cryptic Clues

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Peregrin Took.

The peregrine is a bird (in fact it's the fastest living thing), which sounds like the first name of our inquisitive fellow.

The "thousand" part is lost on me, though . . .

[The Saucepan Man]

'Fraid not, Nil. That's the wrong bird and the wrong inquisitive fellow. :p :D

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

*walks away, slams door, like SLAM!*

*walks back to the Quiz Room on tiptoe*

(whispers) I will entuluva. But how about a hint, first? ;)

[The Saucepan Man]

But how about a hint, first?Well OK then, since this question might otherwise go unanswered for a long while.


The "thousand" part is lost on meThink Roman ... :smokin:

[Turambar]

Sméagol?

[The Saucepan Man]

Hey! Good to see you back Turambar. How ya doin'? :)

But I am afraid that I must demand of you an explanation for your answer. ;)

[Turambar]

Well I tried to post a picture of a seagull but that doesn't work on BD. And M (besides being a decent old movie) is the Roman numeral corresponding to 1,000.

[The Saucepan Man]

That'll do for me. :)

All yours ...

[Turambar]

Magic risers about the swift ones' home.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Hint, please?

[Turambar]

"About" = scramble pointer; "swift ones" = swift fliers.

E: And "risers" might be considered a bit of a stright clue, in addition to being part of the anagram ("magic risers"). :smokin:

[The Saucepan Man]

The answer is Crissaegrim.

An anagram of "magic risers", and home to Thorondor, King of the Eagles, and his kin.

[Turambar]

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif

Thank you, thank you!

[Rimbaud]

You're up, oh highly-unsuited-to-sneaking-silently man.

[Morsul the Dark]

just for the sake of having one up here I have a super simple one

Ben Stein's client also is gellin

this is really easy in fact I'll add look through my older posts to find out abouut the "gellin" part of the clue

[The Saucepan Man]

OK, 10 days is up so I shall reclaim my question. :p ;)

Should be a pretty easy one this:

Tearful girl upset in line

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Tearful girl . . .
Upset "in line" . . .

Niniel!

[The Saucepan Man]

But of course.

Take it away, Nil. :)

[The Saucepan Man]

Nilp?

[Marky Lazer]

Dear Lord... I arrived yesterday, so I read today 13 pages of cryptics... and then English isn't my native language... These are hard nuts to crack for a Dutchie. But giving up isn't a word I know...

Sorry for the interuption of the game... Keep them coming please!

If Nilpaurion Felagund isn't reacting I like to toss one in. I think I have made up a good one, but I don't seem to be able so solve any off these myself :(

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

The bloody holiday break took me away from civilisation.

Enedwaith, I came across this silly headline in yesterday's paper:

Jewel precedes charged particle in history!

[The Saucepan Man]

Hmm, could it be Silmarillion?

Jewel = Silmaril

preceding

Charged particle = ion.

The whole being a history of the First Age.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Now I can safely eschew all commitments to the Quiz Room. :smokin:

[Celebriel Esgaledhel]

I believe the next question would fall to The Saucepan Man.

[The Saucepan Man]

Boy in agony abducted hero's father.

[Vinyacoriel]

Denethor? maby?

[The Saucepan Man]

Welcome to the Downs, Vinyacoriel. :)

Unfortunately though, Denethor is not the correct answer.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Like, is "abducted" literal?

[The Saucepan Man]

A clue? But we've hardly got started.

Oh, OK then - if you insist.

No. It's part of the cryptic element. In true cryptic clue style, my literal elements are always at the beginning or end of a clue.

There we are. Two for the price of one. ;)

By the way, Nilp. Do your alter egos have PTs too? :D (Congratulations, by the way - nice choice. :) )

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I'm still having trouble deciphering it. Maybe I'll bring it home and have my analysis team disect it.

Vy ze vay, thanks! :) And yes, Adam has his personal title: Simply Satirical.

And mine is Nearly Nonexistent. It's obvious why.

[The Saucepan Man]

Any takers?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Due to Saucie's vote of confidence, here I am on a thread I've never before been to. The answer is Tuor.

Another word for 'agony' is 'torture', inside of which one can find the name of the boy, 'Tuor'. In agony, because the poor dear was enslaved by Lorgan (or perhaps the only intentional part 'agony' had to play was posing as 'torture'); abducted because he was captured while fleeing the Havons of Sirion... that part was easy. The other literal part was 'hero's father'. Tuor is the father of Earendil.

The only problem, my dear Saucepan Man, is that I'm not all together sure that I can come up with a good cryptic clue of my own. I have a feeling it might take some practice.

Fea

[The Saucepan Man]

The only problem, my dear Saucepan Man, is that I'm not all together sure that I can come up with a good cryptic clue of my own.Well there is another problem - Tuor is not the correct answer. :p ;)

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Well there is another problem - Tuor is not the correct answer.
How inconvenient. I suppose my ego did need to be flicked down a few notches, but I ask you... so brutally? ;) Tell me I did well for my first ever attempt at a cryptic clue though... :)

My other guess was Turin, but I don't like that answer so much.

Boy in agony abducted hero's father.

See, following my same line of thought as last time, agony remains torture, and if one puts 'in' inside of that word, you can get torturine. Agony because of the whole thing with the curse upon his house (falling in love with his sister, killing his friend, etc), and if the apostrophe-'s' means "hero is" than you get 'abducted hero is father' and Hurin was abducted by Morgoth and is quite the hero.

But then again, I'm not even positive that I'm going about this the right way...

Fea

[Gil-Galad]

Boy in agony abducted hero's father.


hmmm....

Maeglin?

He was in agony from his father, then he tried to abduct Earendil, elronds father.

first time...

[The Saucepan Man]

Sorry, neither is correct.

Somewhere near the beginning of this thread, I gave a long list of typical cryptic clues. It might be worth checking out.


Tell me I did well for my first ever attempt at a cryptic clue though...Why do you think that I pointed you in this direction? ;)

[the phantom]

Since you pointed me to this thread I suppose I'd better be polite and take a guess.

Don't laugh if I'm wrong. This is the best answer I can think of right now.

Boy- a male hobbit ("They would be small, only children to your eyes" Aragorn speaking of hobbits)

in agony abducted- a male hobbit's name found in "agony abducted"- Bungo

hero's father- Bungo is Bilbo's father, Bilbo is certainly a hero

So I'll guess Bungo.

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

Phantom, I have been puzzling this for over an hour, and now I suspect you're right. Since you and good ole' Fingolfin are doing so splendidly, you should come try your hands here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=10279&goto=lastpost) . I'm getting bored waiting around for answer-ers. I'll even bump it to the top for you...

Sophia

[The Saucepan Man]

You are close, phantom, but no cigar ...

[Gil-Galad]

i think i got it

Boy- a male hobbit ("They would be small, only children to your eyes" Aragorn speaking of hobbits)

in agony abducted- it could be Frodos parents, since they died in a boating accident, well they drowned so they were kind of missing

hero's father- Drago is Frodos father, and we all know that Frodo is a hero

so my guess would be Drago

[The Saucepan Man]

No cigar for you either, Gil-Galad.

[the phantom]

I might've been right before, but I just got the answer the wrong way.

If I'm not right this time then I will be quite angry with you, SP. :p

Boy- a male hobbit ("They would be small, only children to your eyes" Aragorn speaking of hobbits)

in agony abducted- What can be found in "agony abducted"? Bag End!

And who could be found in Bag End? Bungo, Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam

So which one is it?

hero's father- Bilbo and Frodo were not fathers and I don't recall any tales of Sam's children doing heroic things, so it must be Bungo.

[The Saucepan Man]

Had you found the correct answer, phantom, then I would have awarded the thread to you, even if your reasoning was not spot on. :p ;)

By way of a further hint, you are all thinking too literally here. Only two words in the clue provide a literal clue. The rest are all cryptic.

Tell you what, as this is taking some time, here's the reasoning to follow:

Find synonyms for "boy", "agony" and "abducted" and order them according to the clues in the question to find a hero's father.

[the phantom]

Finally! Here it is...

boy = lad

agony = pain

abducted = took

lad in pain = pa-lad-in

Paladin Took!!!! (Pippin's father)

[The Saucepan Man]

Give that phantom a cigar! :smokin:

The thread is yours ...

[the phantom]

:)

Thanks for showing me this thread, Sir Saucepan.

Now I have to come up with one of these things. After my class today I'll start working on it. I might not get a chance to post it this evening, but I promise it will be no later than tomorrow evening.

[the phantom]

Well... here it goes. My first ever cryptic clue-

Elf acquires fish-breath at Georgia anti-girl rally

(yell and curse at me via pm if I did this wrong)

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

Gil-Galad, perchance?

Elf- self explanatory
fish-breath- Gills - Gil
Georgia - abbreviated GA
anti-girl rally - well, lads are boys? - Lad

Sophia

ps, take that gill clue over to Password... ;) ;)

[the phantom]

Right on, Sophia. :)

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

Halfling flees in the past, chats in second person, encounters irritating fly.

[Gil-Galad]

probaly Gollum/Smeagol....i wonder if they ever did a duet...

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

Nope, not.

[The Saucepan Man]

"flees in the past" = ran (the past tense of runs)
"chats in second person" = u (chatspeak for "you")
"irritating fly" = gad (a type of fly - a gadfly)

The whole being Ranugad, the translation of Hamfast, a Hobbit.

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

You are absolutely correct in both answer and reasonings, Saucy.

Sophia

[The Saucepan Man]

Why thank you, Mistress of the Storm. :)

Next up:

Tom's accumulation is small but includes each flower.

[The Saucepan Man]

Anyone ...?

[Turambar]

Is the answer aeglos? A glossary is a sort of accummulation, and aeglos would be a small glossary that includes ea. = "each".

But I don't see where Tom comes in . . . ` :confused:

[The Saucepan Man]

Nope. You are in the right area with your answer, but not the reasoning.

You need to work out what Tom's accumulation might be ... :smokin:

[Encaitare]

I do believe that Tom's accumulation would be lilies... but I still have no idea what the answer might be. Hope if that's right, it helps someone out.

[The Saucepan Man]

It's nothing to do with lilies. :p ;)

[Turambar]

Bombadil? Adventures? Paine? Terrific? English Muffins? :confused: :confused: :confused:

[The Saucepan Man]

Although you have the right Tom.

[the phantom]

You need to work out what Tom's accumulation might be
What does Tom accumulate?

I dunno. Hobbits, maybe?

It does say the accumulation was small, after all. :p

And if that were so, his collection of hobbits would include each flower. Umm... "ea" for each-> eaflower, rearranged-> leaf ower. Did one of the hobbits owe somebody pipe-weed?

[The Saucepan Man]

Nope. Nothing to do with Hobbitses.

There is a clear reference in the Book to Tom accumulating something other than lilies ...

[Turambar]

Mallos, I think:

Tom was a moss-gatherer, as Gandalf tells us. His small accumulation is therefore MOS; if it includes ALL ("each"), we get the bell-shaped flower of Lebennin.

Excellent clues! http://forum.barrowdowns.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif

[The Saucepan Man]

Well done Turambar. :)

I yield the thread to you.

[Turambar]

Through the great battle on we fought,
And he who led us, later us taught.

[Gil-Galad]

i keep thinking its a man... Elendil maybe?

[Turambar]

Not Elendil, and not a man. http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL645/2415369/4767997/83996722.jpg

This one is both cryptic and "straight".

[Gil-Galad]

me thinks Finrod Felagund now...

[Turambar]

No.

FYI, there is a good description of "cryptic" clues here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=73530&postcount=7) . :smokin:

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Eonwë

It's right there in the clue:

Through the great battle on we fought

And, of course, Eonwë was a teacher as well as the leader in that battle.

[Turambar]

Squatter is correct - Eönwë was the embedded captain/teacher.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Ta muchly, old bean. Here's an easy one to ease me back in.

Steward of Gondolin? Could be a wet

[Turambar]

Ecthelion?

The name was used by a Ruling Steward of Gondor as well as by an elf of Gondolin; the latter was associated with a fountain ("wet").

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

No need to be so tentative, old boy; I'm not that devious. Your turn.

[Turambar]

A banner flying backwards, showing a muddled connector, denotes a wizard.

[Gil-Galad]

hmmm....denotes a wizard seems like Denethor/Gandalf... but i'll say Gandalf

[Turambar]

Correct! "Flag" backwards, with a scrambled "and" in the middle. Your turn.

[Gil-Galad]

oh joy...

A hot-headed earth driven rascal, one style maybe, are you?


have fun...

[Gil-Galad]

its really not that hard...

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

before you start hinting. Sometimes we have to think about it a little first. :cool:

Believe you me, we're pondering.

Sophia

[Gil-Galad]

at least its good to know people are pondering....took me awhile to figure it out myself actually

[Mithalwen]

Well I am going up various garden paths and .... am distracted by "one style" almost being an anagram of Estelyn ... which is not helpful..... but I am still feeling there might be an anagram in there somewhere ...

[Gil-Galad]

maybe...maybe not...who knows..wait i do...


keep guessing by the way

[Gil-Galad]

Hint: there is no anagrams

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Fingon?

Why? How?

I have no idea.

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

I'm tempted to go with Feanor. I can't make any sense of the clue cryptically, but as far as straight clues go, Feanor was certainly hot-headed. And earth driven too, if you think about his love for things mined and then crafted.

The one style clue makes me think of the Tengwar, which were developed by him, and were written in several styles (the Quenya style which used no vowel letters, just tehtar; and the Sindarin sound which incorporated letters for vowels).

:rolleyes:

[Gil-Galad]

Sophia is very close indeed....explore Around Feanor

[Celebriel Esgaledhel]

My first guess would have been Feanor....but as Gil said "around Feanor", I'm thinking perhaps

Melkor,

Who could be described as hot-headed, and as earth-driven, he sought to dominate the world...

[Gil-Galad]

close again, but no

[Turambar]

Eru?

[Gil-Galad]

nope...now your getting colder...

[Turambar]

Maybe a hint is needed. :confused:

Are the clues cryptic (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=73530&postcount=7) within The Saucepan Man's definition?

[Gil-Galad]

not entirely... like i said, its around Feanor...

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Maedhros?

"Hot-headed" may be seen as red-headed.

"Earth-driven." Try Earth-diving. :p

[Mithalwen]

I wondered about hot headed meaning redhaired .. or if it were Arien ..... (but then Earth driven would make no sense) and the last parts aieeeeee..........

[Gil-Galad]

Nil is correct, it was Maedhros


A Hot-headed Earth Driven Rascal, One Style Maybe, are you?


basically i used it in Pig Latin...that explains the a and the y

the one style means that he was the only son to try and go for peace, his style of doing things was much different then each other son...your turn nil

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

A well rare jewel begins in every name.

[Mithalwen]

Faramir?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I have to beg all your pardon, as the puzzle was constructed quite hastily. I shall give a better version of it.

A rare jewel well followed by beginning in every name.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Anyone? Anybody at all? :(

[NightKnight]

Something ending with -ien, that much I can make out. But the rest is dizzy.

[Mithalwen]

Silmarien then ..... Silma .. the substance fromwhich the Silmarils were made .. can't explain the well though..... :(

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Silmarien it is!

A rare jewel well = Silmaril - il (sounds like "ill", something you're not if you're well).

The thread is thine, Wandering Wraith. :)

[Mithalwen]

Splendid - a quick and easy one cos I am in class!

Cheer a flower?


Ed... maybe not as easy as I expected?

[Mithalwen]

Clue required?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Is it Gladden River? Cheer (gladden) a flôwer (river).

[Mithalwen]

No that is absolutely perfect.... :) Couldn't resist since one of the first things my mother taught me about cryptic crosswords was that a flower was a river .... :D

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Light goblin home.

[Gil-Galad]

hmmmm.....Goblin Town?

Light=town is basically not a heavilly populated as oh say a city

rest is explained

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

"Light" is used in a different context. ;)

[Gil-Galad]

hey at least i tried...gotta conserve my energy for my play! woot woot oh i've lost all interest...


Gundabad? light = spark of gun? i better be hitting the dusty trail...

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Try another meaning of "light". :p

[Mithalwen]

well light can be light in weight, as well as illumination (both either in literal or metaphorical senses). It can be a verb or a noun....

Syntactically it may either stand alone or refer to goblin alone or goblin could relate to home or all may be linked... hmm..... I can't help thinking that the use of goblin is significant since other than in "the Hobbit" Orc is the more common term.
So I had wondered if it might be Gondolin since I have an anagram obsession and it contains the letters of goblin "light" of one letter... but all this thinking aloud (and realising it is home not city ...) has given another idea

Light goblin home- Aglarond? The glittering caves. Goblins live in caves cos most of them can't stand the light and Aglar means shining with light?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Your only shots that scratched the target were:

well light can be light in weight (Mith)
Yes, it is light as in "not heavy." ;)

I can't help thinking that the use of goblin is significant since other than in "the Hobbit" Orc is the more common term. (Mith)
Ja, it is in The Hobbit.

[The Saucepan Man]

Gram?

Sounds like gramme, which is a measure of weight - a single gramme not being particularly heavy.

And Mount Gram was a home to Goblins.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

"Gramme" is "Gram" to Americans.

So, yes, I was thinking of that. The thread is thine. :)

[The Saucepan Man]

Thanks Nilp. :)

"Gramme" is "Gram" to Americans.Two countries separated by a common language. :D

Here's the next one:

Master gunner does not hesitate by lake.

Fairly straightforward ...

[Turambar]

Bombadil ?

[The Saucepan Man]

Bombadil ?Please explain. :p ;)

[Turambar]

Sorry.

The gunner (BOMBADIER) does not hesitate (say "ER"); rather, he stands by an L(ake).

Very clever. The clue, I mean.

[The Saucepan Man]

Top notch. :)

Please proceed ...

[Turambar]

Jewelry promotion came back to outlaw.

[Mithalwen]

Bumping up becasue I am still puzzling over it.... but haven't got very far (evidently) .....

Cannot even decide if I am looking for a jewel or an outlaw (though either, to me suggests I am looking for something from the Silmarillion and there is a suggestion of letters in reverse order .... but I am not sure that I am like Butterbur in being able to see through brick walls given time .... so Master of Doom ... are any of the trees I am barking up of the correct species? :D

[Turambar]

You're on the right track - "translate" Jewelry promotion, run it backwards, and you'll have an outlaw from the Silmarillion.

[Celebrian]

Melkor? (rok=rock, klem=climb)

[Mithalwen]

So..... it is well over 10 days - what now?

[The Saucepan Man]

Well, strictly speaking, anyone can ask a new question. But, since there have been only a few responses, it would be better to wait for Turambar to give another clue.

[Turambar]

I apologize for snoozing on this thread. HINT: one of 12 outlaws. The Silmarillion.

[Celebrian]

Bregolas?
jewelry-> gold + sale backwards ->las + outlaw

[Turambar]

The answer is one of Barahir's band of 12 outlaws. "Jewely promotion" backward gives you his name.

Here are the twelve outlaws:

Beren , Baragund, Belegund, Radhruin, Dairuin, Dagnir, Ragnor, Gildor, Gorlim, Arthad, Urthel, and Hathaldir. :rolleyes:

[Mithalwen]

Dagnir? Ring + jewellery ad(d) could be interpreted as promotion?

[Turambar]

Yes. Thank you.

[Mithalwen]

No thank you.... given that the clue was very helpful.....

Erm try this...

Lonely lady dwarf after Elvish woods, I hear?

[The Saucepan Man]

Elvish woods, I hear = Eren (sounds like Eryn, Elvish for woods)
lady dwarf = Dis

The whole is Erendis, a lonely lady.

[Mithalwen]

That is it..... a whole half an hour.... does that make it a good clue or a bad clue I wonder.... lol

NB Erendis means lonely lady/bride in elvish but that is probably trying too hard...

[The Saucepan Man]

Thanks Mithalwen. :)

I would say that it was a good clue as it followed the usual conventions.

Next one should be fairly simple.

Wretched fellow is sad taking look around.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Wretched fellow is sad taking look around.
Taking a look can, of course, be "tour"ing, and turning around the spelling of that a bit, you get Tuor. One who took Tuor somewhere was Gelmir. When I started digging up information about Gelmir, it came back to me that the other Gelmir was indeed a wretched fellow, captured by Morgoth during the Dagor Bragollach and whose public maiming begain the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. Taking a look around while that was happening would make any wretched fellow sad.

So... is Gelmir close? Or should I give up entirely...

[Mithalwen]

Well I thought wretched mioght indicate an anagram .... but I tend to see signs of anagrams in the same way as McCarthyites saw signs of communists so.... :confused:

[The Saucepan Man]

So... is Gelmir close? Or should I give up entirely...Yup. :p ;)

Actually, the answer is a lot less complicated.

"Wretched fellow" is the straight clue. The rest is the cryptic clue.

[Mithalwen]

In that case Sador would surely be too straightforward...?

[The Saucepan Man]

'Fraid so.

[Mithalwen]

Erm well unless there is an unhappy character called Losadok who I have somehow preiously never noticed... I am stumped ....

*notes an improbability factor sufficient to transverse the universe*

I am stumped....

[The Saucepan Man]

Wretched fellow is sad taking look around.

To solve the cryptic clues, you need to find synonyms for "sad" and "look".

Taking = the latter word is within the former.

Around = turn the word before around.

Now, surely you can find the wretched fellow that I'm looking for ...

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Ooh, any chance it would be Gollum?

Synonym for "look" is "lo". When it's tuned around it becomes "ol".
Another word for sad could be "glum".

So, when "ol" is placed within "glum" we get Gollum. He sure was a wretched fellow.

[The Saucepan Man]

Spot on dancing spawn. Well done.

Your go. :)

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Thank you! I wouldn't have guessed it without your hints, though. I have never done cryptic clues before so I'm not sure if I can do this right. But let's see.

This noble guy is no Brit. when he follows a twisted mouse plus by hearsay he's sick.

[Arestevana]

A twisted mouse - Tar (rat backwards)
followed by...
he - a man
plus - perhaps adding a 'd' to 'a man' to get 'and'?
by hearsay he's sick - il (sounds like ill)

Giving you the noble Tar-Amandil, third king of Númenor.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Aww, you got it right away! Though you solved it in a different way than what I had thought.
(No Brit. = Am, plus = and)
Great job, anyway! :)
Your turn!

[Arestevana]

Thanks, Dancing Spawn. Here's the next:

The road goes ever on and on: Avian advisor hears ocean following

[Arestevana]

Oh, dear. I'm not very good at making these up...

Avian Advisor is the straight clue.

[Gil-Galad]

if thats a straight clue then it might mean Eagles or Thorondor, who were the eyes for Manwe...

[Arestevana]

Yes, "avian advisor" is a straight clue...but at least take a shot at the cryptic part. ;)

The answer is not Eagles or Thorondor.

[Arestevana]

Perhaps a hint is in order?

If the road "goes ever on and on", how else might you describe it?

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

You came up with a rather tricky cryptic clue, Arestevana.
If the road "goes ever on and on", how else might you describe it? Umm, long? Tiring? Eternal? A blister in your toe?

And then there's that "hears ocean following" part. Should I search synonymes for ocean? How about sea, deep or brine? On the other hand, an ocean can rush, swish, roar or din... Another hint wouldn't hurt. ;)

[Mettare]

If the road "goes ever on and on", how else might you describe it?

Endless?

The only thing I can think of is Endless Stair... :rolleyes:

[Arestevana]

Yes, my clue does seem to be too confusing, doesn't it? :( You are both on the right track with your reasoning, but not with your answers. The clue refers, literally, to an avian advisor.

Mettare is correct with "endless", and dancing spawn is correct with the synonymous "sea". This gives you the instructions for solving the cryptic clue. Endless modifies the road, and one hears "sea" not "ocean". Is this sufficient, or is another hint required?

[Mettare]

Endless road = roa
Sea following = c

So is it Roäc?

[Arestevana]

It is indeed. :) The thread is yours.

[Mettare]

... let's give a try...

Look over the pond: you see boundary and behind it one sheep standing, followed by the first of nightingales

;)


EDIT: I'm going away for about ten days, so you'll have to wait till I come back...

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

At first glance I'd say it's Linaewen. A ewe is obviously there, followed by the first of 'nightingales' (n), but I'm still not sure where the boundary comes from. The whole, of course, is Sindarin for 'Lake of Birds'. One might call it a pond at a pinch.

[Arestevana]

Wild Guesswork? I'm sure you're dead on, Squatter. ;)
For one thing, boundary could be 'line' (or if needed, 'lin') which fits quite nicely with your answer.

[Mettare]

Yes, that's correct. ;)

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Worldly jewellery unsuitable for choral piece.

[Morsul the Dark]

Bilbo's Mithril coat?

MItril more valuable than jewels
and it is mined from the earth Worldly

And unsuitable....
for choral piece... oh I got this one the elf king sasy "Bilbo you are more worthy to wear that suit than some that have looked more comely in it"

Unsuitable for choral piece or more great persons the greater of course being those in great tales and songs "Choral piece"

Mithril Coat

[Mithalwen]

Hmm - not convinced - I think it may be tighter than that. Decision for me is if the "straight clue" is wordly jewellery or choral piece .

Obvious choice for choral piece in ME would be the music of the Ainur but I cannot make the worldly jewellery fit that just now....

If choral piece is cryptic then I think that part of the word "choral" is found in the answer. (Edit but that doesnt work either :( ) Off to dig more......

[Morsul the Dark]

um Squatter is one of us right I mean I know Im usually wrong but i think i might have this one :p

By ten days I think sundasy would be day ten from the last post

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Sorry about that: I forgot I'd posted one here.

Neither of you has the answer, but Mithalwen is on the right track. This is an obscure one, but you'll find that the answer's quite close to home.

[Morsul the Dark]

Maybe dwarves, more specificly the seven dwarf fathers?

Eru did not create them so they were "unsuitable for choral piece"

but they laid in the ground until the elves came hence "worldly jewelry?"

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

That's quite a long way from being the right answer. This one has no more to do with Dwarves than with any other race. I really don't see how lying on the ground makes the Fathers of the Dwarves fit 'worldly jewellery' anyway.

[Morsul the Dark]

Squatter this is me we're talking about :p you know im horrible at these

I just say what sounds right to me anyway I will think about it and be back tommorow I figured Worldy because they were in the ground jewelry because they were fathers of an entire race so very very important(thats how i made it fit)

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I think you're just trying too hard with the answers. With my clues, you only need to look at the possible meanings of the words in the sentence. I do like to play around with puns and double meanings, so it's a good idea to know all of the dictionary definitions for each word in the clue. Another good idea to trawl a thesaurus for each word's synonyms. Also I can't recommend highly enough Saucepan Man's list of crossword conventions on page 1 of this thread. Useful things to know are the abbreviations of American states, the system of Roman numerals, the definite and indefinite articles in, say, French, Spanish, German and Latin, and the meaning of the Latin-derived notations (e.g., n.b, i.e., c.f., etc.). The meaning is more often hidden with obscure language than in a series of arcane connections between concepts or objects in Middle-earth, although the more you know about that the better. I would probably have described the seven fathers of the Dwarves as 'Somnolent patriarchs unknown to Snow White'.

The real art of these is to offer a description of the answer that is accurate, reasonable, logical and yet completely misleading. An example would be to describe 'Anduin' as 'large flower found in the Brown Lands' (to pick an example at random), expecting the reader to rack their brains about the flora of Middle-earth when they should be thinking about things which flow. Even when a clue is given, the elegant thing is to make that just as cryptic as the original question, as with my comment in an earlier post:

Neither of you has the answer, but Mithalwen is on the right track. This is an obscure one, but you'll find that the answer's quite close to home.

[Mithalwen]

I know some of the theory but it is the leap into practice that is hard ... and alas real life has left me out of practice (and sudoku is comptetition).... so thought I know about butter and spanner and flowers..... and various other bits of the arcane art.. I am not sure that being on the right track will help .... yet I will give it another go....

Edit - best guess is a star. Since Squatter has suggested that it is not particularly linked to a race of ME and they are part of our world (IE close to home). What we know as planets Tolkien described as Stars so I wondered if it was the elvish name for Pluto since that is missing from Holst's Planet Suit (unsuitable) ... inconveniently I think it is an orchestral work though Jupiter is used a setting for "I vow to thee my country". I think Jupiter is identified with Carnil. So that is as good as I get so far since the elves only named planets as far out as Neptune anyway..... but I don't think I am right..

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Since Squatter has suggested that it is not particularly linked to a race of ME and they are part of our world (IE close to home).

I think you may have misunderstood. I said This one has no more to do with Dwarves than with any other race.By that I mean that it isn't more relevant to any one race than the others. You're right in saying that the Planets suite isn't a choral piece, and Elvish cosmology isn't going to furnish the answer: I don't think it would be that accurate to refer to the planets as 'jewellery'. I can see where you're going with 'worldly', and you're in the right forest if barking up the wrong tree. You were closer to working out the reasoning last time: remember that something can be the solution for part of the clue without being the overall answer.

[Morsul the Dark]

10 day rule

Ok,

The Coyote's Bane of the giants

[Turambar]

Well I would like to know what the answer to Squatter's clue is. :(

[Celebrian]

How about the Nauglamir?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

If Nauglamír is an answer to my clue, I should point out that we're on a new one now. To satisfy your curiosity, though, I'll tell you that it isn't the solution.

Since I mean to recycle 'worldly jewellery' until someone solves it, I can't give Turambar the answer either. Looks as though you'll have to exercise your wits, old boy.

Coyote's banes? Giants? Sounds to me like a reference to The Hobbit. Presumably the coyote here is the Road Runner's arch enemy, who was regularly crushed by falling stones. I seem to recall that it's rocks that the stone-giants hurl at one another. Could that be the answer?

[Turambar]

Or football, since Thorin suggests that the stone-giants were playing football with the rocks? :confused:

http://www.minastirith.com/ubb/icons/icon3.gif Or simply, stone-giants ?

[Morsul the Dark]

actually giant is a straight translation...and Im reffering to roadrunner as squatter pointed out not the rocks

[Turambar]

Quickbeam?

[Morsul the Dark]

yay you can go

[Turambar]

I suggest we again try to solve Squatter's last puzzle.

Worldly jewellery unsuitable for choral piece

I'll try some thinking aloud, and perhaps with a team effort we can solve this one:

1. The first difficulty is, what is the straight clue? Somehow I don't think that either worldly jewelry or choral piece is a straight clue, so maybe this is a rare cryptic clue without a "straight" part.

2. "Worldly" – Eä?

3. "Jewelry" inevitably suggests "ring" to me.

4. "Unsuitable" – ah, there's the rub. This must be a cryptic "pointer" of some kind, but what can it mean? "Unsuitable" means it doesn't fit. Could that mean that whatever "worldly jewelry" means, you shorten it before combining it with "choral piece"?

5. Finally, "choral piece" – probably means "CHOR", "CHO" or something like this.

Which gives us . . . WHAT, exactly? I thought of ECHORIATH, which has EARTH ("worldly"?) plus CHO ("choral piece"), but it doesn't fit with the rest.

Anyone else have an idea?

[NightKnight]

Actually, it fits quite well, since it's a "ring" of mountains, a very "earthly" ring.

[Turambar]

Hmmm - but what about "unsuitable"? :confused:

[Morsul the Dark]

actually is there perhaps another name for that? I mean maybe its "unsuitable for you to have that particular answer i mean...it could be that but another name for it?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

There's some impressive thinking going on there. Unfortunately it's leading in entirely the wrong direction. I'll lend a hand by telling you that 'choral piece' doesn't refer to a portion of the word 'choral', and that 'echoriath' isn't the answer. Turambar's suggestions regarding 'worldly' and 'jewellery' are on the money, though. 'Unsuitable' carries on the jewellery metaphor, but the answer I'm looking for certainly wasn't welcome. I'm looking for an obscure alternative description for something ubiquitous in the legendarium.

As I said earlier, the answer is quite close to Home.

[Mithalwen]

You mean we need to have read HoME?

[Turambar]

The fact that it's obscure makes me feel better.

"Ubiquitous in the Legendarium" would make a good name for a band.

EDIT: I think that "choral piece" may be the straight clue. A choral piece is a song or lay. I don't know any obscure alternative names, other than ann-thennath, which refers to a particular type of song. :eek:

[Mithalwen]

The fact that it's obscure makes me feel better.

"Ubiquitous in the Legendarium" would make a good name for a band.


Suddenly I have the feeling that English is not my first language... :(

[the phantom]

Turambar's suggestions regarding 'worldly' and 'jewellery' are on the money
Okay, and Turumbar's said-
2. "Worldly" – Eä?

3. "Jewelry" inevitably suggests "ring" to me.
Well- that certainly brings Morgoth's Ring to my mind, since it is the entire World made into a Ring.

[Celebrian]

How about Ring of Doom or Mahanaxar?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

The Phantom has extended his dominion by getting the right answer.

Worldly jewellery: all of Middle-earth was Morgoth's ring.
Unsuitable for choral piece: the marring of Arda implicit in making it into Morgoth's ring was unsuitable for the choral piece.

Close to home: Morgoth's Ring is the title of HoME X.

[the phantom]

:)

Here's one that probably won't take as long to solve-

Sports Illustrated, The Foremost in League Coverage: Massachusetts rivulet and charged particle destroys team unity in Valinor.

[The Saucepan Man]

Silmarillion?

Sports Illustrated = SI
The Foremost in League Coverage = L
Massachusetts = Ma
rivulet = Rill
charged particle = Ion

The Silmarillion concerns the destruction of "team unity in Valinor".

[Turambar]

http://www.anchoredbygrace.com/smileys/eek2.gif

With those reasoning skills surely you could solve one of the remaining Password clues (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=413598&postcount=1145)

[the phantom]

Perfect, Sauce. :)

Your turn.

[the phantom]

Either SPM is busy working on an absurdly difficult clue, or he is drawing a blank and is waiting for the ten day rule to save him.

[The Saucepan Man]

Neither. I forgot that it was my turn ... :rolleyes:

In an effort to attract fresh blood to this thread, here's an absurdly easy one:

Swift ray is faster than most.

[Morsul the Dark]

SPM you're talking to us welll especially me since when have i got these right? :p

if its "absurdly easy" Ill go with the obvious choice:

Shadowfax

[Gothmog]

I'd say Quickbeam. Quick=faster than most, Beam= ray.

And if I'm supposed to guess anything right, it can't get harder than this :) I've red a few early clues here, and I'm truly impressed by you folks.

[The Saucepan Man]

Sorry Morsul, it's not Shadowfax, although that's a good guess.

In fact, Gothmog is correct with Quickbeam.

Well done, Gothmog. The thread's all yours. :)

[Morsul the Dark]

good job gothmog that actually was fairly i thought it was a horse though ;)

[Gothmog]

Thank you Morsul!

Oh your supposed to come up with one of these now? Whoa, that's not easy. I've constructed one, but I don't know if it is too simple or impossible to guess... Well, I trust SpM, phantom & Co could figure out anything so here i go:

A long way for the friend is this clue

Remember this is my first time...

[Morsul the Dark]

a long way for the friend
the friend is sam so

he came a long way to mordor?

mordor?

that doesnt sound right at all

[Mithalwen]

mellon? Elvish for friend that was the clue to getting into Moria? But that doesn't explain the long way..

[Gothmog]

Good guesses but no. Mithalwen is on the right track...sort of. This might be harder than I expected now when I think about it. I wanted something challenging for the quiz-pros I've seen in action here. I'll wait a while longer before giving any hints I think.

I hope I did this the right way. It is more of a clue to the name than the person... Good luck to you! ;)

P.S. OK, now you know it's a person. It just slipped me :)

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Is it Gimli (elf friend)?
he might have taken the straight road with Legolas.

[Gothmog]

Sorry, not Gimli either... As I said it's all about the name. And very cryptic ;)

Is this to far-fetched I wonder. Well, hint's coming up on monday if nobody gets it before that.

[Gothmog]

Obviously this wasn't a good question. Well, here's a hint as promised. This was my original version (not posted):
A long way for the french friend is this clue And if that's not good enough, I'll have to find some more clues... But as I said, it's a clue to the name of the person, not the person itself.

[The Saucepan Man]

A long way = far
french friend = ami (if my very rusty French serves me correctly)

Is it Faramir?

[Gothmog]

Brilliant guessing and yes, that is most correct. I'll try to do a better one next time, was in a bit of a hurry...sorry.

The thread is all yours, SpM!

[Gothmog]

A small BUMP! to SpM. I'm looking forward to something new to figure out! I'd like to keep this confusing thread alive!

[Morsul the Dark]

Uh 10 day rule i guess.....

Jaws that decieve and make leprecans dance

this is pretty simple but its a fun clue to say

[Morsul the Dark]

does no one have any ideas or does no one care? if its the first tell me ill give a clue

[Gothmog]

I've given it some thought, but have no idea. But on the other hand, I'm not too good at these. Wild guessing isn't usually my way to tackle a problem like this.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

What is leprecans ?¨

I will guess allthough I dont understand that word.

Saruman ?

[Morsul the Dark]

Wild guessing isn't usually my way to tackle a problem like this

should have tried it Rhune got it

Jaws: jaws is a shark sharki :p

leprecaNS ARE LITTLE IRISH GUYS THAT LOVE GOLD AND RAINBOWS(SARUMAN OF MANY COLORS) AND DECIEVE IS THE STRAIGHT CLUE GO AHEAD

oops hit caps lock but too lazy to retype it in lowercase

Rhune go ahead

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

This might be difficult.

an explorers home on the sea

[Morsul the Dark]

Well an explorers home on the sea ship was first in mind
however bilbo could be considered an explorer and he had many homes bagend rivendel but most notably on the sea

Lake-Town?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

nope

go with you're first thought Morsul ;)

[Morsul the Dark]

well Eriol was the explorer he went to the cottage of lost play so i looked at the lost tales for eriols ship i didnt find it however....

Vai is the outer ocean with the world ship on top of it so...

Since the Cottage is west I would have to Say

NUME?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

It's Unfinished Tales rather than The Book of Lost Tales in which we must look for this answer.

This floating palace is Eämbar, or Sea-home, which was built by Aldarion, king of Númenor. It was a home both for the king himself and for his guild of explorers, so it's an explorer's and an explorers' home, literally on the sea. :smokin:

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh I salute you!

You may proced :)

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

And I you. I like fiendish clues.

Without further ado I shall begin to make use of my newly acquired thread. Tell me, ye luminaries, the meaning of this.

King, for example, backed by unconventional advance, builds a nation

[Morsul the Dark]

ok

thorondor?
hes king for example EG kind of like eagles

King for eagles his origin is unknown(unconventional advance)and he built eyries in the high mountains of someplace(i dont know what an eyrie is buti looked over all the kings i couuld think of and this one fit best

[Gil-Galad]

Gwaihir the Windlord?

unconvential advance could mean the wind pshing him...

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Nothing to do with eagles, I'm afraid.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I'm not so patient as the Green Knight, so I'm sending this monster back to the surface. If it shames an answer out of anyone it's worth my saying that my clue isn't difficult:

King, for example, backed by unconventional advance, builds a nation

Clue: you've probably already seen the answer today.

[Mithalwen]

I guess unconventional could be signalling an anagram..

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Indeed it could.

[Morsul the Dark]

I think we've all but given up on this one a few hints if you would my good sir

[Mithalwen]

How many letters would be useful :D

[JennyHallu]

It looks to me that the answer is going to consist of the name of a or a synonym for king, followed by an anagram of "advance" and will spell out a nation. I'm not very good at cryptic clues though, so I'm wondering if anyone else has had the same idea. The clue seems awfully straightforward.

[Mithalwen]

That is what I would expect Jenny but it hasn't got me any closer. :(

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I'm not telling anyone the number of letters in the solution, but I will expand on Jenny's interpretation of the clue. As usual, if it seems too simple to be true, it probably is.

A lesser-known cryptic technique, known to such as the benighted souls who do the Grauniad crossword, is for the word that is an anagram to be defined in the clue but not actually given. For example:

'Youngster always allowed to run amok' = Anagram of 'ever let' = Leveret.

I also draw your attention to my use of the phrase 'for example', which is significant, although not at all cryptic in its meaning.

[Mithalwen]

This will be hopeless - I am too Telegraph-minded!

[Turambar]

And I'm too Nation-minded, but . . .

Cardolan ? ;)

A king is one type of card, and a loan is an advance . . .

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I hope I'm not expected to congratulate you for following my highway to the answer. Good to see you back on the thread all the same.

See what I mean, folks, about having already seen the answer today?

[Turambar]

Thank you for solving my three and a half month old puzzle - is that what you meant to say? :p

I'll try to think of a new one today.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Well, that too, obviously. I didn't realise it had been so long. How time flies when you're in stasis. :smokin:

[Turambar]

Fish lost its tail, but swims after endless perdition to the sea.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Fish lost its tail: 'carp' minus its 'p' - car
Endless perdition: 'Hell' without its last letter - hel

Which would leave us with Helcar, a sea.

[The Saucepan Man]

Well, Squatter's had me compeletely stumped, but I think I have an idea about this one.

Endless perdition = Hel minus l = Hel
Tailless fish = Carp minus p = Car

Tailless fish swimming after endless perdition = Helcar

Helcar is an inland sea.

So, Helcar. :smokin:

[The Saucepan Man]

Bah! Pipped to the post. Curse you, Squatter! ;)

Btw, good to see you back, Turambar. :)

[Turambar]

Thank you!

I'm thinking that it would take a difficult puzzle indeed to stump either of you. Not that Helcar was very tough.

I'm going to try make my next one a true poser.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Hopefully this manages to avoid the Scylla of dispensing clues for three months, although it may easily be sucked into the Charybdis of being answered within an hour.

Merchant town: her togas are in a terrible state.

[The Saucepan Man]

Being in such a state of disarray, I feel it my duty to rearrange her togas forthwith, to provide Esgaroth, the merchant town of the Long Lake.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I didn't realise you were such a dab hand with linens. Esgaroth it is.