Cryptic Clues

[LePetitChoux]

Basically, here you conceal the person/thing/place/word/quote etc. (in short, anything Tolkien-related) in a cryptic clue. This is the same principle as the cryptic clues found in crosswords.

I'll start (this won't be great, though):

Sounds to me like a dwarf letting off light!

It's not brilliant, but I hope it makes sense...

smilies/smile.gif

[ July 10, 2003: Message edited by: LePetitChoux ]

[The Saucepan Man]

Ah, a game for crossword addicts. smilies/smile.gif How can I resist, as most of my attempted riddles end up as cryptic clues. smilies/rolleyes.gif

Is the answer Gloin? A Dwarf, whose name sounds like "glowing", ie giving off light.

[LePetitChoux]

Well done (as usual)! smilies/smile.gif

[The Saucepan Man]

Thank you, my green-leaved friend. smilies/smile.gif

Friend and worker go to one river for visual aid

[LePetitChoux]

So this is what frustration feels like! I have been staring at that, glaring at it, gripping the side of my computer desk until my knuckles turned white, kicking things.....

And there I was, thinking I could just about recognise and therefore solve the different types of cryptic crossword clue...(I went to Cryptic Crossword Club for one or two terms, hehe) smilies/rolleyes.gif

I shall continue striving onwards to achieve enlightenment solution-wise...Or give up trying! smilies/smile.gif

P.S.This is just a gentle bump for
a)the Clamouring Quizmaster to have mercy on my suffering and out of the goodness of his heart give me a hint (wink wink nudge nudge say no more, say no more smilies/wink.gif )
b)the other crossword lovers here to come and try their luck smilies/evil.gif

P.P.S. Wow..I've never used that many smilies before...

[Gil-Galad]

is it something about the lady of the Old Forest river?

[The Saucepan Man]

No, I am afraid that's not it.

I am concerned that, for those who are not familiar with cryptic clues of the type intended on this thread, further explanation may be required.

A cryptic clue is one which contains both a straight clue to the answer and a clue which uses wordplay to portray the answer. So, in LePetit's first question, where the answer was Gloin, the straight clue was "Dwarf" and the cryptic clue was "Sounds like letting off light".

The crytic clue will often involve a number of sub-clues making up diferent parts of the word.

Cryptic clues generally follow a number of conventions. Although this is not a comprehensive list, some common ones are: Synonyms - the clue might include a synonym for a word that makes up part of the answer - for example "big cat ..." for "-lion" in "Ecthelion". Anagrams - the answer or part of it might be an anagram of the clue, with a word such as "confused" or "muddled" to indicate that it is an anagram, eg "a gal is confused ..." for "gala-" in "galadriel". Backwards words - a synonym for the word written backwards, accompanied by words to indicate that the clue is to be reversed, eg "Steal back ..." for "Bor-" in "Boromir" (rob backwards). "Sounds like" - as in LePetit's example, the clue will be accompanied by words indicating that it sounds like the answer (or part of it), such as "It is said ...". Words in words - the answer, or part of it, is to be found in one or more words in the clue, again with words to signify this, for example "Hobbit found in Gerbil Box" for "Bilbo". First or last letters - the first or last letter of the clue is to be taken, depending on the words used, eg "first of May ..." for the letter "M" or last in line for the letter "E". There are also a number of other common clues used for single letters, such as "point" or something similar for one of the compass points (N, S, E or W), and "note" or the like for a musical note (A, B, C, D, E, F or G). Similarly, "article" is often used to signify "a", "an" or "the"; "one" is used for "I" or "A"; "zero" or "nothing" is used for "O", and so on. The answer to the sub-clue might also be its abbreviation, as in "right" and "left" for "R" and "L"; "lake" for "L"; "river" for "R"; "street" and "road" for "ST" and "RD" etc.

The clue may also include words to indicate the order in which the sub-clues are to be put together, The "backwards synonym" clue above is an example. Also words such as "surrounds" or "inside" may indicate that one clue surrounds or is inside the other, such as "Hobbit is left inside apron, leading to nothing" for "Bilbo" (l inside bib plus o). Words may also be used to indicate that a letter is missing, for example "purpose loses nothing", again for "gala-" in "Galadriel" (goal losing o).

I hope that this helps to make things clearer. If not, please feel free to PM me. smilies/smile.gif

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Actually Saucepan's being quite kind, and if you've ever tried the Times crossword you'll know what I mean. The answer to that last one is Palantír, and it works like this:

Friend = pal
Worker = ant
One = Roman numeral 'I'
River = abbreviated to 'r'

The clue for the whole being 'visual aid'. Cunning.

[ July 14, 2003: Message edited by: The Squatter of Amon Rûdh ]

[The Saucepan Man]

Thanks, Squatter. smilies/smile.gif Palantir it is, and for the reasons stated, so you're up next ...

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

These are much harder to invent than they are to solve! Try this one on for size:

Spinner returns trunk after call for silence

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

I have found it!

Sh= a call for silence

elob= bole, a synonym for "trunk", reversed.

Shelob, a great spinner indeed.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Right you are, Sophia. Your turn.

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

Ach, Squatter, right you were about how hard it is to invent these. Next to impossible to reduce it to one line. Hope it's decipherable.

Initially, Kate had air and dreams, but right in the middle it sounds like they let her see her fate following underground.

[ July 16, 2003: Message edited by: Sophia the Thunder Mistress ]

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Khazad-dûm, O esteemed thunderer.

The first letters of Kate had air and dreams, with a letter that sounds like 'see' (z - pronounced 'zee' by Americans), placed in the middle: Khazad

Then Dûm sounds like 'doom', which is fate.

The whole being underground.

[ July 16, 2003: Message edited by: The Squatter of Amon Rûdh ]

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

Splendid, Squatter, do carry on. And I learn something new about the alphabet, something I thought I had finally mastered. smilies/tongue.gif

[ July 16, 2003: Message edited by: Sophia the Thunder Mistress ]

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

With pleasure. I hope you other Britons were watching, because I shan't explain why 'see' sounds like 'zed' again.

Unleavened sundry pursued by the Spanish insect in old forest

[The Saucepan Man]

Nan Elmoth, I do believe

"Unleavened sundry" - Nan bread, an unleavened accompaniment for sundry curries smilies/wink.gif
"pursued by the Spanish" - El is Spanish for "the"
"insect" - moth

"in old forest" - Nan Elmoth, meaning Star Dusk Valley, was a forest in Beleriand.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Spot on, Sir. Pray continue.

[The Saucepan Man]

If you insist, old chap. smilies/smile.gif

Black rider misses river after upsetting Frodo in northern territory.

[Annunfuiniel]

Forodwaith - the Northern waste.

Black rider misses river - Wraith minus R = -waith

after upsetting Frodo - "upset" Frodo gives Forod-

in the northern territory = Forodwaith

Any good?

smilies/wink.gifAnnun

[ July 17, 2003: Message edited by: Annunfuiniel ]

[The Saucepan Man]

Perfect, Annun. Good to see you back. smilies/smile.gif

[Annunfuiniel]

Thank you, dear Man; it's good to be back (though I was just in the neighborhood...)! smilies/smile.gif

Ok,

Short foreign lord with a stern face meets you in the middle, in arms.

~Annun

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

You seem to have defeated all of us with that one, Annunfuiniel. Could we perhaps have a clue?

[Annunfuiniel]

Yup, seems I have killed this thread... smilies/wink.gif Well, if you can't solve this one, don't worry; most likely the fault's not in you but in the clue itself!

As for hints: in arms alludes somewhat straight to the answer I'm looking for AND - warning! - to solve this clue you need to use that horrid, unnatural, distorted language that made even the ever-so-manly Earnur Etceteron's pants shake!

Hope that helps! smilies/biggrin.gif

~Annun

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

Is it Merry Brandybuck? It was after all the Witch-King who made Earnur panic, and Merry was a short 'foreign lord' in that he was the son of the Master of Brandy Hall. But actually the 'in arms' part makes me wonder.

[Annunfuiniel]

Not the answer I had in mind, sorry.

~Annun

[Turambar]

Is the horrid, etc. language the Black Speech? smilies/eek.gif

[ July 29, 2003: Message edited by: Turambar ]

[Annunfuiniel]

As Black as it can get! smilies/wink.gif

(Hope you all are familiar with the Revenge of the Entish Bow -RPG...)

~Annun

[Turambar]

Is it solvable if you aren't familiar with the Revenge ?

I love the idea of this game. smilies/smile.gif

[Annunfuiniel]

It should be; I honestly hope it is...

Ok, that last clue hints to only one letter, in the middle.

~Annun

Btw. Turambar: nice to see you again; I deem it's been a while.

[Turambar]

Nice to see you too !

OK -- thinking out loud, in the hope that this will guilt you into steering me in the right direction . . .

"you in the middle" suggests that there's a "U" in the middle of . . . what? Of "meets", or a synonym or anagram of "meets", or of "in arms", ditto. Hmmm.

The first part of the puzzle is of the synonym type, I'd guess. "Short foreign lord" = ???? Napoleon? smilies/biggrin.gif

"A stern" suggests "astern", meaning in the back, so "face" (or a synonym or anagram) goes in the back of . . .

I'VE GOT IT ! It's Nap-u-phiz, Black Speech for corn muffin. My turn?

[ July 29, 2003: Message edited by: Turambar ]

[Annunfuiniel]

"you in the middle" suggests that there's a "U" in the middle
Correctomundo!
"Short foreign lord" = ???? Napoleon?
smilies/biggrin.gif
I'VE GOT IT ! It's Nap-u-phiz, Black Speech for corn muffin. My turn?
Er... Keep on trying, dear! smilies/biggrin.gif smilies/biggrin.gif

~Annun

[Turambar]

I'll ponder it some more but nothing is coming to me. Anyone else have any ideas?

[Cinderella]

I'm with Turambar on the corn muffin... no seriously I have no clue, I've been looking at this for twenty minutes and i think I'm actully understanding it less as time passes smilies/tongue.gif

[Turambar]

Herugrim http://forum.barrowdowns.com/ubb/icons/icon5.gif

[Beren87]

Or, perhaps, Naugrim?

Na-being the Napolean
U-already explained
Grim-stern face

[Turambar]

Annunfuiniel smilies/biggrin.gif'd at the Napoleon guess, which I took to mean "incorrect".

Hmmm - one meeaning of G. Herr is "lord", so "Her-" would be a foreign lord, short one letter. "-grim" would be stern, and they meet in the middle at "-u-".

And "in arms" is the straight clue, as Annun said. Herugrim was Theoden's sword.

[ July 29, 2003: Message edited by: Turambar ]

[Annunfuiniel]

*Wild applause and three cheers*

Turambar, perfect reasoning! smilies/smile.gif The ungrateful task of creating a new clue is yours now...

~Annun

[Beren87]

Mine rhymed with the right answer.. smilies/tongue.gif

I'll just be going now..

[Turambar]

Crafty actor goes back to earth tones.

[The Barrow-Wight]

Sorry, this is not a guess.

Once the answers are given, I understand them, but until that moment I am left scratching my head. Would it be too much to ask that we at least categorize our clues? By that, I mean could we say if the answer is a person, place or thing? Or would that be making them too easy?


Would it be possible for a few easy ones so usnon-cryptic people can get the hang of it?

Thanks! Looking forward to figuring one of these out!

[Turambar]

Reposting for this page:

Crafty actor goes back to earth tones.

HINT: person.

Barrow-Wight: be sure to read The Saucepan Man's excellent summary of the tricks of the trade for these puzzles, on page 1 of this thread.

[The Saucepan Man]

Would it be possible for a few easy ones so usnon-cryptic people can get the hang of it?

B-W, I pondered Annun's clue for ages and got no further than the "-grim" bit, so being familiar with these types of clues doesn't always help with the really tricksy ones.

The trick is to work out which is the straight clue and which are the cryptic clues. Then you can test various answers for the straight clue and see how they work with the cryptic ones.

Turambar - Is the answer Mahal?

Actors can be "Hams" and "Ham" backwards gives "Mah". I've no idea how to get "-al" from earth tones, but Mahal, aka Aule, was a pretty crafty chap. smilies/smile.gif

[Turambar]

You're very close, Saucepan. Your hammy reasoning is correct.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

It's Fëanor's father-in-law, the smith Mahtan.

The beginning of the solution is Saucepan's inverted 'ham', but earth tones is tan.

[Arestevana]

So you want Mahtan, tan being an earth tone. If that's right, give it to Saucepan, since I never would have gotten the Mah, and won't be able to form a new clue anyway. smilies/rolleyes.gif

Edit: Ah, beaten to the answer by about three seconds.
smilies/biggrin.gif

[ July 30, 2003: Message edited by: Arestevana ]

[Turambar]

Yep, that's it. http://forum.barrowdowns.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif

"Crafty" probably wasn't the best "straight" clue -- I mis-remembered, and thought Mahtan was described as a craftsman rather than a smith -- but "The actor Mr. Smith" would have been too easy anyway.

Anyway, your turn, Squatter.

I like this game ! smilies/smile.gif

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

So do I, Turambar, although I'm still kicking myself over Herugrim.

Anyway, here's a nice easy one as per the Barrow-Wight's request:

Fair city can include southern port

[Sharkû]

can = tin
includes a southern port = Rio [de Janeiro]

=> fair city Tirion

[ July 31, 2003: Message edited by: Sharkû ]

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Spot on, Sharkû. Welcome to the game.

[Sharkû]

Eh, she fell asleep somewhere around that part a lot. Place.

[Finwe]

Doriath?

[Sharkû]

Nope. 2 words, btw.

[Turambar]

*wonders which part is the "straight" clue* smilies/eek.gif

[ July 31, 2003: Message edited by: Turambar ]

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

It's Cabed Naeramarth, although I've only really solved the 'abed' part: a place to fall asleep. And of course 'naer' is an anagram of 'near'. Close enough?

[Sharkû]

Told you it was, silly. smilies/tongue.gif

EH plays on the stereotype of it being a typical CAnadian interjection.
A LOT should be read as 'a fate/doom' and is then, of course, AMARTH.

Niniel fell there to her eternal sleep, and earlier near there, when Túrin first met her again, fleeing from Glaurung.

[ August 03, 2003: Message edited by: Sharkû ]

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Oh, come on: at least let me pretend that it wasn't a wild guess. Here's another to cover up my discomfort.

Perilous dwelling is empty point reached by five-hundred when ad confused.

[Sharkû]

Bar-en-danwedh?

WHEN AD is an anagram for ANWEDH, preceeded by the Roman numeral D for 500 = DANWEDH.

BAR-EN contains BARE, 'empty', and the whole House of Ransom proved a dangerous abode for Túrin & co.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

You're right again, old man. The 'N' is the point (North). It was, I suppose, rather cheeky of me to use a question that's answered by my own location.

[Sharkû]

Around a year, the knight no longer had water, only nitrogen.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

It's Sirannon, old boy.

One addresses a knight as Sir; 'a year' is Latin anno and 'nitrogen' is represented by its chemical symbol N.

The gate-stream of Khazad-Dûm had been dammed when it was reached by the Fellowship of the Ring, hence no water issued forth.

[Sharkû]

Perfect answer.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Ah, so much like the answerer.

Roman drove erratically, sighting diminutive hero

[Kaiserin]

I hope nobody minds if I join in...

Are you talking about Roverandom?
I know it might be remotely related to M-E stuff, but Roman drove is an "erratic" version of Roverandom, and "random" itself means "erratic".

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

You're quite right, Kaiserin. Welcome to the game.

[Kaiserin]

Okay... I guess it's my turn now. Here goes...

Seemed at first like a tall tale, so I fled
(Just doing as the guy said!)
Then was followed by a demon-in-red

I'm talking about a person. I guess this would be easy. smilies/smile.gif

[Arestevana]

Seemed at first like a tall tale, so I fled
(Just doing as the guy said!)
Then was followed by a demon-in-red

Mithrandir?
A tall tale = Myth = Mith
Fled = Ran
Demon-in-red = D. I. R.

[ August 07, 2003: Message edited by: Arestevana ]

[Kaiserin]

smilies/tongue.gif Told you it was easy.
You got it!

[Arestevana]

Ah, but can I think up a new one? smilies/eek.gif
Here goes:

Baby boys, otherwise we meet Mike without Kim.

Edit: Better, but probably too easy.

[ August 10, 2003: Message edited by: Arestevana ]

[Turambar]

Elured and Elurin?

(Can't be right.)

[Kaiserin]

Okay... I'm still wondering which one is the straight clue. Here's a shot:

Nino is a spanish word for "baby boy",
Or can mean "otherwise",
Mike without Kim is the letter E...

Is it Nienor?

[ August 13, 2003: Message edited by: Kaiserin ]

[Turambar]

Hmm, you're probably right, but why baby boys (which would be ninos), I wonder? And using a foreign word without a clue that you're doing this is cryptic indeed. smilies/wink.gif

[Arestevana]

Oh, Kaiserin, so close! Nope, no foreign words, but the last two parts of your guess were correct. smilies/wink.gif Okay, I should have said this at the beginning: the answer is a place. Good luck!

[Cathelm]

I think I've got it... Numenor!

I can't see where the 'e' is supposed to go, but Numen- pronouced like 'New men'- is where the baby boys part comes in, and then we've already addressed the 'or'.

Hope I got it!

[Kaiserin]

Then it must be Númenorë. I found a place where it is spelled like that.

[Arestevana]

Right! Your turn.

[Kaiserin]

Whew! smilies/smile.gif Thanks..

I'm sorry if this sounds like a riddle, and must therefore be in another thread.. but it's just cryptic, trust me!

That which matter
would go under
And for follower
that precedes after
Flowing over
the sad sepulchre

It's NOT a place... I'd like to tell you what category it falls under, but if I did, that would give it away. Have fun!

[ August 15, 2003: Message edited by: Kaiserin ]

[ August 15, 2003: Message edited by: Kaiserin ]

[Kaiserin]

Two days and still no one? I'm surprised... And I'm sorry; I either came up with a clue that is too hard, or made one one that really sucks. smilies/frown.gif

Anyway, I'll rephrase the same clue above, to make it simpler:

"For" follower that precedes "after"
And that which goes "over matter"
Flowing on a sepulchre

I't not a person or a place or an animal; it's more of an object but it's not really an object. This might make it a little too easy, but at least it will get the thread going.

Have fun! smilies/biggrin.gif

[ August 18, 2003: Message edited by: Kaiserin ]

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Evermind

Ever can follow 'for' to make 'forever' or precede 'after' to mean much the same thing; 'mind over matter' is a common phrase. The whole, a translation of simbelmynë, grows on the the graves of men.

[ August 18, 2003: Message edited by: The Squatter of Amon Rûdh ]

[Kaiserin]

Excellent, Squatter!

I was also using the word "flowing" to refer to Evermind as a flow-er, or flower, but anyhow you're very right. smilies/smile.gif

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Let's see what you make of this one:

Damp spot can be found in what? A lantern?

[The Saucepan Man]

Is it Atalante, which can be found in "what? A lantern", and is a very damp spot being as it is under the water?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Indeed it is. Carry on.

[The Saucepan Man]

Right you are, sir. smilies/wink.gif

It summons aid for one in an airborne spectacle

Should be fairly straightforward.

[Sharkû]

Aerandir?

In the middle of A-IR we have an ER[R]AND, which can be a mission to summon help.
Aerandir was, in turn, one of Earendil's companions on the mission to summon the help of the Valar. They made the journey in Earendil's ship, which was soon to become the airborne spectacle of the morning star.

I have a feeling I am way off; if so, I demand extra points for a creative answer.

[The Saucepan Man]

You are correct, Sharkû. That's not the answer. Extra points hereby awarded. smilies/wink.gif

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Red Arrow

This is a double meaning. The Royal Air Force's aerobatic display team is the Red Arrows, and the Red Arrow of Gondor summons aid.

[The Saucepan Man]

Spot on. Please continue. smilies/smile.gif

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Very well: here's one for you:

Wood-lady's dossier, we hear, is illuminating

[The Saucepan Man]

Galadriel's phial?

Galadriel is the lady of the Wood and phial sounds like file, a synonym for dossier (dodgy or otherwise smilies/wink.gif ).

[Turambar]

Three minutes !?

Mom! Squatter and Saucepan aren't letting anyone else play!

smilies/biggrin.gif

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Well, I was looking for 'Phial of Galadriel' but I'm not about to split hairs. I think that one might have been a bit too easy.

Anyway it's your turn again, Saucepan.

It's not my fault if we're too quick for you, Turambar. If you're too busy with your job to watch this game all day then that's just too bad. smilies/wink.gif

[ August 22, 2003: Message edited by: The Squatter of Amon Rûdh ]

[The Saucepan Man]

OK, mice on mouse pads. Ready, steady ...

Behemoth in a state since being surrounded by girl.

.. GO!

[The Saucepan Man]

*Lowers starter pistol and surveys the scene of intense inactivity*

Anyone?

[Arestevana]

We did 'Go', honest! It's just taking us a while to get around the track. smilies/wink.gif perhaps a hint would speed us up a little?

[The Saucepan Man]

Weeeell ... OK, if you insist. smilies/wink.gif

'State' in the clue refers to an abbreviation for a US State ...

[Turambar]

That should puzzle the Brits here. smilies/biggrin.gif

Here (http://www.princeton.edu/Main/postal.html) you go.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Saucepan is a Brit. Actually that wasn't the part of the clue that was giving me trouble, since it's a common ploy in cryptic crosswords to use the state abbreviations. It's coming up with the right girl's name that's giving me nightmares.

However, there aren't that many behemoths to choose from in Middle-earth, and I can't seem to shake the idea that the state is California and that somehow the rest of the clue must translate to Fastitocalon (http://www.hum.au.dk/romansk/borges/vakalo/zf/html/body_fastitocalon.html).

[ August 27, 2003: Message edited by: The Squatter of Amon Rûdh ]

[Turambar]

Ah, a girls's name! I was trying lass, miss, etc. and getting nowhere.

Mumakil has "Alaska" in the middle, but there's no more a girl named Mumil than there is one named Fastitoon, I suppose.

[The Saucepan Man]

Alas, Squatter, the answer is not Fastitocalon. Nor is it Mumakil, Turambar.

Squatter is on the right track, but to successfully track down this Behemoth you must take account of the word "since". smilies/tongue.gif

[ August 27, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ]

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Ancalagon

Cal is a shortened state
ago can mean 'since'
Ann is the girl, who surrounds the above.

[Kaiserin]

Darn... I was thinking yesterday that Ancalagon was the behemoth in question, but I hesitated to post an answer. smilies/frown.gif

Oh, well. I get a zero for being a sissy then.

[ August 28, 2003: Message edited by: Kaiserin ]

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Let that be a lesson to you, then: the quiz room is no place for hesitation. ;)

[The Saucepan Man]

That's the beastie, Squatter. Pray continue.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

It all makes sense once one separates behemoths from the sea in one's mind. Anyway, on with the quizzing:
Gloomy individual condemns chap regularly to mend around five by a river

[Rimbaud]

Doom of Mandos?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

'Fraid not, old boy. You're thinking along the right lines, though.

[Rimbaud]

Hmm, can't escape that initial thought.

Doomsman of the Valar fits better.

'Gloomy individual', self-explanatory. 'Condemns chap' - dooms man. 'V' for five, of course.

Mend around five refers to the surrounding letters, 'he' and 'al', making 'heal'.

Also, 'of the' contains oft, or 'regularly'.

'By a river' contains the ultimate 'ar'.

[ August 29, 2003: Message edited by: Rimbaud ]

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Indeed it is. The floor is yours, sir.

[Rimbaud]

Through wine, feline stutters and agrees.

[Rimbaud]

Nobody?

[Cathelm]

I think a hint may be on order, Rimbaud...

[Rimbaud]

Clue #1 : The first half of the answer is in Latin.

[Turambar]

Pervinca Took ?

I see per-vin-cat but not the rest of the clue.

EDIT -- ah I see -- O-Okay.

[Rimbaud]

Yes and yes, T.

[The Saucepan Man]

Good grief Sir Poet, that was devilishly difficult indeed. smilies/eek.gif My non-appearance with a suggested answer was not through lack of racking my brains, alas to no avail. smilies/frown.gif

[Turambar]

Addled queen was a prong creator

P.s. I hate writing these!

[ September 03, 2003: Message edited by: Turambar ]

[The Saucepan Man]

Hmm, I think that we may need a hint on this one, Turambar. smilies/confused.gif smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Turambar]

Sorry -- the answer is a queen, her name is an anagram of two terms (initials T.M.) that are synonyms of the two key words in the clue.

If no one gets it shortly, I'll just give the answer; this truly isn't a very good one.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Now it becomes clear. I was looking for an addled queen, messing about with variations on 'rotten' and barking up all manner of wrong trees.

Anyway, this one is Kementári ('Queen of the Earth') from the letters of Tine and Maker, which could also refer to Yavanna. That was clever rather than bad, telling us that the final answer is an anagram of your anagrams. One might even go so far as to call it 'fiendish'. ;)

[Turambar]

Yep, that's it. Even when I wrote it I knew it was lame -- prong creator ??? smilies/biggrin.gif Ah well.

Give us a better one, Squatter.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Perhaps 'better' is pushing it, but here's another clue all the same:

Ancient order is present with sacred word as celestial bodies align over point

[The Saucepan Man]

Heren Istarion?

Present = Here
Sacred word = Ni (held sacred by the Knights who say it smilies/biggrin.gif )
Heavenly bodies = Star and Io
Point = N(orth)

The whole being an Ancient Order.

[Turambar]

Praise him with great praise, for using "Ni" as a clue. smilies/biggrin.gif

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

That's the one, Saucepan. The floor is yours.

I thought you fellows might appreciate that clue. Sadly there was no room for 'peng' and 'nee-wom', but I see this as an opportunity for the future.

[The Saucepan Man]

Give that man a shrubbery! smilies/biggrin.gif

Thank you, Squatter. The next one should be fairly straightforward:

Ancient city seen by girl running back to port.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Why, thank you. It is a good shrubbery.

Swaying uncertainly towards the subject at hand, Rome is an ancient city, once again our retiring girl is Ann and the port in question is the Númenórean city of Rómenna.

[The Saucepan Man]

Precisely, my dear Spectre of Decay. smilies/smile.gif Would you be good enough to furnish us with the next clue?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

It would be my pleasure.

Pale tower abandoned by monarch is home to many a lost love

[Annunfuiniel]

Ok, I'm 99,9% sure that the answer is Wandlimb, the entwife Treebeard is so fond of, but someone has to clarify a thing or two for me... I see:

*pale=wan
*tower=(c)limb,

and the 'lost love' part is clear but that -D- in the middle gives me a headache (or it would if I had the time to really start pondering it).

~Annun

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Oh, all right. Galling though it is to have my fiendishly complicated clue guessed, I can't in all conscience withhold the laurels. Wandlimb it is.

You're right about 'wan', and the 'lost love', but 'tower' can't be 'climb' and there's nothing to suggest the removal of a 'c'. My clue works like this:

'Pale' = wan
'Tower' = limber (a vehicle used for towing artillery pieces), with a monarch (E[lizabeth] R[egina]) removed.
'Is home to many', in other words 'houses many'. In this case, 'many' is five-hundred, represented by the Roman numeral D.

[Annunfuiniel]

Ah, as always after the residue of my stupidity is removed, the answer appears crystal clear. Thanks for the clarification, Squatter.

Before thief turns his head kingdom is reached.

~Annun

[The Saucepan Man]

my fiendishly complicated clue ...

You can say that again, Squatter. smilies/eek.gif Well done indeed on getting that one, Annun. smilies/smile.gif As for yours, is it Erebor?

Before = Ere
Thief with his head turned = Bor (Rob reversed)

The whole being a Kingdom.

[Annunfuiniel]

Thanks, Saucy! smilies/smile.gif

Luckily I didn't err to call my clue fiendish or complicated, not to mention fiendishly complicated... smilies/rolleyes.gif Yes, 'tis Erebor!

And that was my part; may Mister Saucepan take the lead. *Annun bows and retreats back to the shadows from whence she came*

[The Saucepan Man]

Well, this one is neither fiendish nor complicated.

After dark this part of the Shire becomes terrifying.

Sorry, it's late. smilies/rolleyes.gif

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Marish

When placed after dark (night) it becomes more than frightening.

[The Saucepan Man]

Quite right.

I'll have to try to think up something a little more fiendish next time. Actually, I have a whole stack of cryptic clues for the Cryptic Crossword that I'm putting together for the main site, but I'm resisitng the temptation of resorting to those.

Anyway, the thread is yours, Squatter. smilies/smile.gif

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

By no means are you to spoil your crossword for us: I'd rather have easy clues. Here's one to mull over while I'm away this weekend.

Too bright, that fellow, for irregular feast.

[Cathelm]

I got Galadriel.
Galad means 'radience', gal means 'celebration', and lad is another word for fellow.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Sorry. I'm afraid that's not the one.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Surely this can't have you all stumped. You're clearly not trying hard enough.

[Cathelm]

A hint, Sir Squatter?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Right you are.

Ask yourself what something is when it's too bright. And think of all the high days you know of in Middle-earth.

[Finwe]

Is the answer to the first half of the clue, "blinding"?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I'm afraid not.

[Turambar]

Overlithe ? (Over-lit, he)

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Spot on, Turambar. I was beginning to despair of that one ever being answered.

[Turambar]

The foreign father's smile captured the young hobbit.

[Annunfuiniel]

Peregrin Took

pere=father (Spanish?)
grin=smile
took=captured

[Turambar]

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif

29 minutes!

My next one will be much harder.

[ October 06, 2003: Message edited by: Turambar ]

[Annunfuiniel]

No, no, that was a good one, Turambar (and I'm not saying this only because I knew the right answer, you know... smilies/wink.gif ).

Gods, that is a returning girl - with Nazgûl's head, to begin with!

Well, imagine that... smilies/rolleyes.gif

~Annun

[The Saucepan Man]

Is the answer Nienna, Annun?

Nazgul's head placed at the beginning = N
That is = ie
Returning girl = Ann backwards

Nienna is a God of sorts, being one of the Valar.

[Annunfuiniel]

Perfect, Saucy; simply perfect! smilies/smile.gif

~Annun

[The Saucepan Man]

Well I try my best, Annun. smilies/wink.gif

Orc and queen seen together after fellow embarrassed by anger returned for one who remained behind.

[ October 07, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ]

[Finwe]

Turin? Nellas?

I'm quite bewildered here. A clue would be rather nice.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Surely you can't mean that.

'Fellow' is F
'Embarrassed' is red
'Anger returned' is 'rage' backwards: egar

'Orc' is Bolg
'Queen' is either of two queens of England: ER

All of which adds up to Fredegar Bolger, one who remained behind.

[Turambar]

Geez, Squatter, since you solved that conundrum, you probably could make short work of the Password.

[The Saucepan Man]

Word perfect as always, Squatter. smilies/smile.gif

The thread is yours ...

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Thanks, Saucepan. Here's another for your delectation.

Mordorian communiqué is fastest

[The Saucepan Man]

Aha, got it. smilies/smile.gif

Mordorian = Shadow
communiqué = fax

The answer being Shadowfax, who was the fastest.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Indeed it is. That was quick.

[The Saucepan Man]

Like answer, like solver. smilies/wink.gif

Here's another:

Short elf lord has edge over standard elf.

[The Saucepan Man]

Surely it's not that difficult ...

[Silmarien]

Elrond?

[The Saucepan Man]

Nope, not Elrond. Think of another Elven Lord for the first, cryptic, part of the clue.

The answer is the name of another Elf, although I'm not sure that he was actually an Elven Lord.

[Telchar]

Earendil/Cirdan ?

[Sleepy Ranger]

Can I join in?
I think its Maeglin.

[The Saucepan Man]

No and no.

And in any event I am not accepting any answer which does not explain its reasoning ... smilies/evil.gif

[Finwe]

Gildor because he was the only one who had "-dor" in his name, whereas many other Elf lords had "Gil" in their name.

(I'm heavily dosed on allergy medication, so work with me. )

[Turambar]

I'm not getting what Saucepan means by "edge". smilies/eek.gif

[Telchar]

Ok I know that this is not it as Saucepans keeps saying 'he' and 'elflord', but its amazing how well it fits Arwen (halfelven) who has a 'swordedge' over Galadriel in Eomers mind smilies/wink.gif


I dont think Saucepans could mean Tuor over Maeglin, although Tuor did throw Maeglin over the edge of Caragdûr, as Tuor was never 'Halfelven' ???

[ October 21, 2003: Message edited by: Telchar ]

[Turambar]

Telchar - you're interpreting short elf as "halfelven" but couldn't it also mean an elf lord with one or more letters removed?

[The Saucepan Man]

I'm not getting what Saucepan means by "edge".

Think of another word for "edge".

... but couldn't it also mean an elf lord with one or more letters removed?

It could indeed, Turambar. smilies/wink.gif

[ October 21, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ]

[Turambar]

Synonyms for edge: border, brim, brink, fringe, hem, margin, perimeter, periphery, skirt, verge.

I'm guessing that "border" is the culprit.

smilies/smile.gif

[The Saucepan Man]

Synonyms for edge: border, brim, brink, fringe, hem, margin, perimeter, periphery, skirt, verge.

Correct. smilies/evil.gif

[Turambar]

You're in a smilies/evil.gif mood today!

OK, elf lords: Elwë or Thingol, Cirdan, Olwë, Elrond . . .

[The Saucepan Man]

Elwë or Thingol, Cirdan, Olwë, Elrond . . .

Nope, none of those.

Hint: The word "standard" is an important clue to the identity of the Elf whose name is the answer to the question ...

[The Saucepan Man]

A "short" Elven Lord has (ie takes in) a synonym for "edge" to give a "standard" Elf.

Come on, I'm practically giving it away here. smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Nuranar]

Just stumbled across this and couldn't resist capitalizing on everyone else's hard work. smilies/tongue.gif

Celebrimbor.

Start with the Elven Lord Celeborn. Shorten by subtracting "n" and add "brim," a synonym for edge, and you have Celebrimbor.

[Turambar]

Thanks Nuranar, that one was driving me nuts.

[The Saucepan Man]

At last! Well done Nuranar, and it's good to see you here. smilies/smile.gif

Standard Elf - geddit! smilies/biggrin.gif

[Nuranar]

Good deal - glad I wasn't spoiling anyone's fun. But no - I still don't get "Standard Elf" - what's up with that? smilies/frown.gif (A most humiliating confession to have to make, I assure you.)

This is my first attempt, so bear with me. I'm sure it's way too easy. (The only other possibility is that it's way too far-fetched...but that should only be an enticement to you champion cryptic clue-ers, eh? smilies/wink.gif)

One of many between the evergreen and the Spanish main.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Could it be Fíriel? One (i) between an evergreen (fir) and the usual Spanish word for 'the' (el).

[Nuranar]

Nope. Good guess, though...

[Turambar]

Firimar (elvish, mortals) http://forum.barrowdowns.com/ubb/icons/icon5.gif

[Nuranar]

Absolutely. Your turn! *tag* smilies/biggrin.gif

[Turambar]

With anger lessened, eat at the end point in the path.

[The Saucepan Man]

Anger lessened: Remove W from Wrath to get Rath
Eat: Dine
At end point: N (for North)

Giving Rath Dinen, the Street of Silence in Minas Tirith.

[Turambar]

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif

[The Saucepan Man]

Thank you Turambar. Sorry, folks, forgot about this one.

Next clue should be easy ...

Large fish from river grabbed diminutive adventurer

[Finwe]

Bilbo Baggins?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Smeagol?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

No, wait. It must be Sharkey.

[The Saucepan Man]

Bilbo Baggins?

Smeagol?

Too literal.

It must be Sharkey.

I can see where you are coming from, Nilpaurion, but that's not it.

Keep them coming. smilies/smile.gif

[Finwe]

This just came to me, but could it be Aragorn?

[The Saucepan Man]

No, it couldn't. smilies/tongue.gif smilies/wink.gif

[Estanesse]

is it Sam

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Isengar Took?

The large fish is a gar, the river is the Isen and 'grabbed' means 'took', the whole being a diminutive seafaring adventurer.

[Turambar]

These are always so obvious. Once you're told the answer. smilies/smile.gif

[The Saucepan Man]

Spot on, Squatter. Fire away. smilies/smile.gif

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I feel like easing myself back into this contest gently.

Celestial harvester

[Finwe]

The Valacirca (sp?)?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I was looking for 'Sickle of the Valar', but 'Valacirca' will do nicely.

[Finwe]

Ah, ok, then! Here goes:



Flaming thunder god, not being below something, and a short, swinging entrance make a large bird.

[Turambar]

Thorondor ?

[ November 18, 2003: Message edited by: Turambar ]

[Finwe]

Why yes indeed! Your turn!

[Finwe]

*bump* Someone? Anyone?

[Turambar]

At the peak, two rings surround me, near disposession point.

[The Laurenendorian]

Frodo?

[Turambar]

Not Frodo.

HINT: place.

Also, Saucepan's summary of "cryptic" clues on p. 1 of this thread is very useful.
smilies/smile.gif

[ November 25, 2003: Message edited by: Turambar ]

[The Saucepan Man]

Saucepan's summary of "cryptic" clues on p. 1 of this thread is very useful.

Indeed, I found it very helpful. smilies/wink.gif

The answer is Oiolossë:

Two rings: Oo
Surrounding me: I
Dispossession: loss
Point: E (East)

And the whole is a peak, the high seat of Manwë and Varda, no less. smilies/smile.gif

[Turambar]

Yep that's it. http://forum.barrowdowns.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif

[The Saucepan Man]

Mistakenly bearing south first and then right rapidly.

[The Saucepan Man]

Anyone?

[The Saucepan Man]

It's not that difficult, honestly ...

[Turambar]

A hint maybe? I can't even figure out what the straight part of the clue is.

[ 7:24 PM December 03, 2003: Message edited by: Turambar ]

[The Saucepan Man]

The straight part of the clue should always be either at the beginning or at the end.

Now, what might "mistakenly" denote ...

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Let's see: 'Mistakenly bearing south' could be 'out' reversed: Tuo, which with right makes Tuor.

I've not read Tuor's story recently, but I think he bore South to begin with before encountering Ulmo and going in search of Gondolin, so it could be him. Is it?

[The Saucepan Man]

Nope. I am afraid that's not the answer, Squatter.

The straight clue is "rapidly", although it's a bit deceptive. smilies/evil.gif

[Turambar]

Errantry ? smilies/eek.gif

[Finwe]

Frodo?

He was wandering south initially, then suddenly turned right towards Bree and eventually Rivendell when the Ringwraiths attacked.

[The Saucepan Man]

Nope. Neither of those is correct, I'm afraid.

Now, what might "mistakenly" denote ...

Might it call for some rearrangement of the letters? smilies/rolleyes.gif smilies/tongue.gif smilies/wink.gif

[Finwe]

Turin?

[The Saucepan Man]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!! smilies/tongue.gif smilies/wink.gif

[Finwe]

Morgoth?

[The Saucepan Man]

Now you're just guessing. smilies/biggrin.gif

Look at the hints that I have given. And think laterally about "rapidly".

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Limlight? smilies/cool.gif

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 9:14 PM December 09, 2003: Message edited by: Nilpaurion Felagund ]

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Although I feel an utter fool for not spotting this before, I have to prove that I'm less dense than the rest of you. ;)

It's Sarn Gebir: an anagram of 'bearing' and the first letter of South, followed by right; the whole being some rapids on the Anduin.

[The Saucepan Man]

A hit! A palpable hit!

There now, it wasn't that difficult after all, was it? Well done Squatter. Please proceed to perplex us further. smilies/smile.gif

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Very well, then. How's this?

The Waste Land causes depression of subterranean lord.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I'll take the silliest wild stab in the history of mankind, and say Anfauglith.

Anfauglith is The Wasteland.
There was fought the War of Wrath, which caused our subterranean lord(Morgoth, in this case) to "depress," which can be interpreted as going underground or losing.

Now, before you do the worst torture imaginable, I would like you to make sure my marigolds are watered... smilies/biggrin.gif

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 10:21 PM December 10, 2003: Message edited by: Nilpaurion Felagund ]

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I'm afraid that's not the answer, although you're on the right track.

[Finwe]

The plains of Ard-galen?

As the battle was raging, Fingolfin rode to challenge Morgoth, and severely wounded him, effective depressing the Dark Lord.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I'm afraid it isn't Ard-galen either. I like the reasoning, but it's a bit more complicated than mine.

[Finwe]

Doriath?

Thingol was probably depressed when Luthien was missing, and was traveling in the Anfauglith (if she even did, I'm guessing here).

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Wow. My silliest wild stab wasn't silly at all.

Anyways, will it be...Withered Heath?

Withered Heath is The Waste Land.
From there came Smaug, which was/caused our subterranean lord(himself) to be depressed, or to reside inside Erebor.

OK, tell me the bad news... smilies/cool.gif

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

You have no idea how close you are, Nilpaurion; but that's still not the answer. I'm afraid that it isn't Doriath either, Finwë.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Am I close? Am I close? I'm so close I could practically smell the...wait, should close the loo.

OK, where was I? Oh, yeah. Another guess.

Will it be...The Desolation of Smaug?

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 4:05 AM December 16, 2003: Message edited by: Nilpaurion Felagund ]

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

That's the one.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Thank you, Lord Etceteron! *bows*

And here is my conundrum:

The King's laughter after the morning is noteless.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 1:42 AM December 19, 2003: Message edited by: Nilpaurion Felagund ]

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I thank thee for thy kind words, but this riddle is hard to fathom. Mayhap my noble brand knoweth the king whereof thou speakest:

How many times do I have to tell you not to speak that way? You're getting such a cut next time I'm out

Give me the answer or I won't get that new whetstone.

All right already! It's Amroth. Now shut up and go away

This maketh no sense to me, but so it ever is with matters of thought. Could it be that the sword speaks sooth?

[Finwe]

I'm guessing wildly... Minhiriath?

(I know it makes no sense whatsoever, but when you're as sleep-deprived and caffeine-overdosed as I am, you start thinking about the strangest things.)

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I'd hate to break the bad news to Wylkynsion, but...no. Don't let him kill me...

Finwe! Your answer is...oh, wait...wrong.

Keep guessing! smilies/cool.gif

[Finwe]

Hmmm...

Minuial? Mitheithel?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

It's a person...The King is a straight clue... smilies/wink.gif

[Finwe]

Hmmm... Aragorn?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

We have a negative, Sierra-Four. I repeat, we have a negative!

Keep guessing. smilies/wink.gif I might be kind enough for a hint, too. smilies/wink.gif

[The Saucepan Man]

Hints are for wimps. smilies/tongue.gif smilies/wink.gif

I believe that the answer is Amlaith.

The King's laughter after the morning is noteless.

"Lalaith" means laughter. Being noteless, it loses the note "la" to become "laith".

Putting it after "am" (morning), we get "Amlaith", the first King of Arthedain.

Am I right, or what? smilies/cool.gif

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Haha! Wrong! Not so smart now, eh...

Wait, you're freaking right! Aaaaah!!!!!

[The Saucepan Man]

Wait, you're freaking right!

Of course I am. smilies/tongue.gif smilies/biggrin.gif

Possessive female from the Mark taking you, we hear, as a Rider.