Ulmo and the Ring War - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Elenhin · 03-19-2002, 01:52 PM

This is an interesting topic indeed.

I don't think that it's really justifiable to say that the Valar, excluding Ulmo, really ever abandonded the Children. They did send the Istari, and I'd say that there was some intervention from Manwe during the War of the Ring (the winds arising at exactly the right time during the Battle of Pelennor), and possibly some from Lorien as well (all the dreams Frodo had in the beginning of his journey). Of course, it was Ulmo who intervened the most.

Tuor's line definitely had a connection with water, and therefore with Ulmo as well. Tuor, Earendil, Elros and many Numenorean Kings after him were all "chosen ones" of Ulmo, and I tend to think that this connection extends to Aragorn as well. This is just a hunch, though - there isn't much text about Aragorn's sea-faring experiences.

I think that Ulmo's interventions are most evident in the cases of Boromir and Faramir. Boromir at Rauros is a quite obvious connection between them and Ulmo, but I don't think that it was the only instance where the sons of Denethor were helped.

"Seek for the sword that was broken:
In Imladris it dwells,
There shall counsels be taken
Stronger than morgul-spells..."

This is, of course, the poem which Faramir and Boromir heard in their dreams. Where did this prophetic dream come from? My guess is Ulmo. He had influenced both Turgon and Finrod by showing them visions in dreams, and I think that Faramir and Boromir's case was similar.

I tend to agree with the most of you about the water in Mordor: Sauron had defiled the land and its streams so that Ulmo had no way of influencing the waters there, at least without a great effort which would have been against the Valar's non-interventionist policy. Still, it was thought that only Ulmo could ever purify Mordor:
"They had come to the desolation that lay before Mordor: the lasting monument to the dark labour of its slaves that should endure when all their purposes were made void; a land defiled, diseased beyond all healing, unless the Great Sea should enter in and wash it with oblivion."

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03-19-2002, 01:52 PM	#7
Elenhin Wight Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Vantaa, Finland Posts: 205	This is an interesting topic indeed. I don't think that it's really justifiable to say that the Valar, excluding Ulmo, really ever abandonded the Children. They did send the Istari, and I'd say that there was some intervention from Manwe during the War of the Ring (the winds arising at exactly the right time during the Battle of Pelennor), and possibly some from Lorien as well (all the dreams Frodo had in the beginning of his journey). Of course, it was Ulmo who intervened the most. Tuor's line definitely had a connection with water, and therefore with Ulmo as well. Tuor, Earendil, Elros and many Numenorean Kings after him were all "chosen ones" of Ulmo, and I tend to think that this connection extends to Aragorn as well. This is just a hunch, though - there isn't much text about Aragorn's sea-faring experiences. I think that Ulmo's interventions are most evident in the cases of Boromir and Faramir. Boromir at Rauros is a quite obvious connection between them and Ulmo, but I don't think that it was the only instance where the sons of Denethor were helped. "Seek for the sword that was broken: In Imladris it dwells, There shall counsels be taken Stronger than morgul-spells..." This is, of course, the poem which Faramir and Boromir heard in their dreams. Where did this prophetic dream come from? My guess is Ulmo. He had influenced both Turgon and Finrod by showing them visions in dreams, and I think that Faramir and Boromir's case was similar. I tend to agree with the most of you about the water in Mordor: Sauron had defiled the land and its streams so that Ulmo had no way of influencing the waters there, at least without a great effort which would have been against the Valar's non-interventionist policy. Still, it was thought that only Ulmo could ever purify Mordor: "They had come to the desolation that lay before Mordor: the lasting monument to the dark labour of its slaves that should endure when all their purposes were made void; a land defiled, diseased beyond all healing, unless the Great Sea should enter in and wash it with oblivion."