Iceland in Tolkien's Work?

[davem]

Originally Posted by Kath

Ah, well, that's not entirely true according to some of those who live there. Many people still believe in 'the little people', and have done for a long time. In fact the belief is so strong that when roads were built they made sure not to build them over where the little people lived for fear that if they did it would cause these legends to become angry with them.

And there are episodes in the sagas where individuals fight trolls, Elves & ghosts. 'Ghosts' are interesting in Scandinavian lore, as they have a physical presence & engage in combat with heroes (Grettir fights trolls & breaks into a barrow to steal grave goods. He has to fight the ghost of the inhabitant, & defeats him in the traditional way - beheading the ghost & placing its head between its buttocks.

Clearly there was a belief right from the start that Iceland was inhabited by supernatural beings, & that they had to be respected or combatted.

[Lalaith]

The supernatural people of Iceland were traditionally not "little" - they were "hidden" (huldufolk - hidden people). They are as big as humans, possibly bigger, and more beautiful. So elves, not hobbits.

Leif was named Lucky not because he found America, nor because he lost it again. (I think I've told this joke before...) He was called lucky because he rescued people from a shipwreck.
This is revealing of the Norse view of luck. To have good fortune has a moral dimension which is quite hard to explain.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

The supernatural people of Iceland were traditionally not "little" - they were "hidden" (huldufolk - hidden people). They are as big as humans, possibly bigger, and more beautiful. So elves, not hobbits.

Leif was named Lucky not because he found America, nor because he lost it again. (I think I've told this joke before...) He was called lucky because he rescued people from a shipwreck.
This is revealing of the Norse view of luck. To have good fortune has a moral dimension which is quite hard to explain.

I thought he only rescued one person. . .I suppose today we would have named the survivor "the lucky"

Anyways In Danish he is known as Leif den Lykkelige. . . and Lykkelig is now used to descripe the highest form of Happiness. The word must have changed meaning and hence caused a lot of confusion, I for one did not understand what he was so happy about.

[Lalaith]

I suppose today we would have named the survivor "the lucky"

Exactly.
I think Tolkien understood the whole idea very well....I think the Turin/Tuor parallel is a good illustration of the difference between fortune and misfortune in the Norse sense - compare Skarphedin with Kari, those of you who have read Njalssaga....

[Lalwendë]

Could that be where the phrase "happy go lucky" comes from?

Originally Posted by davem

And there are episodes in the sagas where individuals fight trolls, Elves & ghosts. 'Ghosts' are interesting in Scandinavian lore, as they have a physical presence & engage in combat with heroes (Grettir fights trolls & breaks into a barrow to steal grave goods. He has to fight the ghost of the inhabitant, & defeats him in the traditional way - beheading the ghost & placing its head between its buttocks.

I wonder why that image will not go from my mind...

It would certainly mean that the ghost had no chance of pursuing its victim!

Now those Elves...the scandinavian people even had rituals of sacrifice made to the Elves - the Alfablot. That's how serious they were/are about Elves!

[Lalaith]

Still light elf-fires...alfabrennur....on Twelfth Night.

[davem]

Another similarity with Hobbit traditions:

At the expensive feasts & offerings of hospitality that figure prominently in the literature, the quality of relationships was judged by noting whether the host sent his guest off with 'good gifts'. (Byock 'Viking Age iceland')

In other words, its the party guests who recieved gifts.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Was the hobbit tradition not only so at birthdays?

Because I think it was a more general thing back around the year 1000. It did not have to be a birthday party or even a party, it would always be the host that treated the guests. In sertain cases the guest might bring something as well I supposse.

Anyways, the quote made me think of Morwen. . . she seems to share this view. When Thingol sents messengers to her with gifts, she feels obliged to give them gifts as well.

I cannot remember if the gifts was for Thingol or the messengers. . . .that could be important.