Iceland in Tolkien's Work?

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by davem

Well, no, its not unique to the Icelandic concept of valour. One would not expect it to be, given that both the Anglo-Saxons & the Icelanders were Germanic peoples, & their attitudes reflect a cultural norm. However, being that this thread is discussing (possible) Icelandic influences on Tolkien, I don't see that pointing out that another society held the same view adds to the discussion. The fact that the Anglo-Saxons held to the 'Northern theory of courage' doesn't negate the fact that the Icelanders also did. Both Icelanders & Anglo-Saxons held to the concept of weregild. Men in both societies wore tunics.

Being that the 'thread is discussing (possible) Icelandic influences on Tolkien', isn't pointing out when something is not necessarily exclusive to Icelandic nature, but present in Anglo-Saxon literature as well, germane to the discussion, particularly in regards to an Anglo-Saxon scholar such as Tolkien?

Originally Posted by davem

The real point is that we have nothing like the Sagas from Anglo-Saxon England, no extensive literature which depicts everyday life in Dark Age/Medieval England. The Children of Hurin is the closest thing we have in style & structure to an Icelandic Saga from Tolkien, & there is nothing in the whole of Anglo-Saxon literature that is anything like it - as far as I'm aware.

Certainly, CoH bears a great debt to the Sagas, but more so the Eddas, as Lalaith pointed out. But then again, there are certain similarities to the Finnish Kalevala as well (Kullervo seducing a maiden, only to find out it is his sister, and then later killing himself, for instance). Kullervo is an anti-hero much in the mold of Turin.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Certainly, CoH bears a great debt to the Sagas, but more the the Eddas, as Lalaith pointed out. But then again, there are certain similarities to the Finnish Kalevala as well (Kullervo seducing a maiden, only to find out it is his sister, and then later killing himself, for instance). Kullervo is an anti-hero much in the mold of Turin.

The similarities with the stories of Kullervo from Kalevala and Turín surely go deeper than this but some people tend to overestimate the similarities as well.

We probably should not forget that Tolkien was an eclectic - or should we say an Eclectic - picking this and that thing from here and there to make a mythology of his liking. So there may be paths and motives from Icelandic sagas and others from Finnish epic - which kind of nicely is a 19th century production of a person who had the romantic ideas of Hölderlin in his backpack as well. And sharing things from other Germanic lore and even the old Greeks and Romas as well?

[Hookbill the Goomba]

I think that Tolkien, like most people, had many interests. The Icelandic sagas, Norse Mythology and good old fashioned Englishness were quite forefront in the many cultures of Middle Earth. The Culture of Numenor, while having Atlantian qualities, did, I think, have some allusions to the Icelandic sagas. Likewise, The Shire, while one of its main functions was, no doubt, to satisfy Tolkien's amusement with quintessential Englishness, had some of the Icelandic traits as well. One must always keep in mind that Tolkien had to create a new world and new cultures and all he had to work with was his imagination and cultures that already exsist, past or present. A completely new culture that is not base, even loosely, on another is an incredibly difficult thing to do, if not nigh on impossible. One must always be considering what has gone before, the good parts, the bad parts and all the parts in between.

The Shire, with its Icelandic housing and such Tolkein had studied in his time is mixed with the quirky English traits that he had observed his whole life. There are new things, of course, Hobbits themselves are not English people, nor are they Norsemen. They are, sorry to point out the obvious, Hobbits. Their creator may have had certain ideas about English folk and Icelandic houses as well as a whole host of other things, but they themselves are a peculiar race. I always imagined that the Hobbits (especially Bilbo in The Hobbit) were rather like Arthur Dent in The Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Unexpected travelers in a far flung land of wonder and magnificence, and yet retaining those odd little personalities from their homeland that makes them stick out like a set of grossly disproportionate infected and possibly contagious sore thumbs.

As with any of Tolkien's cultures in Middle Earth, one must not always look too deeply at things. I do often wonder how many of the connections and similarities he was aware of. If I may speak from experience, it is only when another person reads something I have written that they say, "Ho-ho! This is inspired by X" or "Ah! A little like the thing that happened when so and so did the other thing..."

At least, that's how this struck me...