Tol-in-Gaurhoth XLVII: Dueling Wizards Werewolf II

[Kath]

Hmm, and just a note as I've looked at the latest posts, Rikae has a very good point about Lommy. I don't see floodposting, flipflopping and general presence. Definitely something to look at.

[Kath]

Day 1, page 2:

Roa - good point about the EW not wanting to share information.

Lhuna - agrees with Roa about looking for wolves rather than wizards (and why does that remind me of Horcruxes or Hallows? ) but also agrees with phantom that it will be tough.

Durelin - points out that wolves can slip up of their own accord.

Gwath - agrees with phantom that it's the EW that needs to be focused on.

Brinn - good point that looking for connections is possible because the wolves and the EW know each other. Actually this post settles the Roa/phantom argument for me, if only they agreed.

Izzy - basically what Brinn just said.

Cailin - repeats above and does what phantom wanted, tried to work out who might be an EW. Oh, no it was a list of wolves not wizards.

Mac - good point that wolves can be sacrificed because the EW can always make more and that we should simply lynch those who appear evil. Looks at Roa for a comment, some suspicion of Shasta too. Good point about Greenie just pointing out Volo's potential slip and then leaving the outcome to everyone else.

Greenie - suspects phantom some, especially for his attention-grabbing ways.

Volo - ooh very good point about no one using actual names in Night discussions just in case, which ends with him saying it's the EW we need to focus on. Different idea to everyone else, that the GW is better with wolves and we're better with the EW. It's certainly an idea, I'm not familiar enough with the rules to know if this is really right. Someone give me a simple answer here, how do the good guys win? If we lynch the EW what happens? If the GW scries the EW what happens? I admit it, I didn't read the new rules, I'm going on what I recall from the last game.

Rikae - thinks Mac is overreacting a bit and that Roa was right to face phantom though she doesn't think him suspicious. Does think morm a little suspicious though.

morm - voted Brinn on a hunch, no explanation.

Kitanna - repeats a lot of what has gone before conclusion wise, also says not to rely on lists because they're as much use to the EW as the rest of us.

Lommy - sides with Roa about finding the wolves. Agrees with Brinn about connections. Suspects Agan. Has phantom and morm as innocent (though morm less so, there's no definite conclusion there).

Celuien - again mentions that the EW and wolves may not communicate so it might not be possible to find connections.

Ka - makes sense about better to go after wolves than the EW when the EW is going to find it easier to hide.

I've got to post 67 but my head has gone a bit (I need food) and my battery is dying so I'll return later. I'm finding this going through it all quite helpful but I will likely leave it for the rest of the Day and focus on toDay when it comes to voting. Anyway, back soon.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Legate - Day 1

#67 - Slightly in-character entrance. Replies to morm (disagreeing), Roa (agreeing) morm again (disagreeing), Ka (confused, states opinion on whether or not the EW would reveal her identity to the wolves), Roa (agreeing, again), Gwath (disagreeing), Roa again (agreeing), Izzy (agreeing), Greenie (unsure about Phantom - this is the post that Mac bases most of his suspicion of Legate on, Day 1), Mac (disagreeing), Volo (agreeing, but suspicious), Cailin (agreeing), Mac (agreeing). Sums up with liking Mac and Lommy and Aganzir, doesn't like Volo, suspicious of Greenie and Gwath, doesn't know what to think about Phantom. In my opinion, lots of agreeing going on, as well as "who knows" and "why not". Not one to rock the boat, is Legate.

#71 - More in-character. Thinks Agan is clever, tells Sally to vote Phantom while saying he probably will not... This sets my alarms ringing, for some reason.

#77 - Answers Mac's first suspicion regarding Phantom.

#95 - Continues to answer Mac's suspicions regarding Phantom. Believes Nerwen to be innocent. But this quote:

Originally Posted by Legate

Nerwen's posting, especially her post #82 actually looks sensible, and innocentish. However, I can as well imagine her evilly grinning behind this innocent mask. But that's just the tiny bit of feeling.

is reminiscent of the quote I posted of Mac's earlier; wishy washy. "However", "but". Another odd quote:

Originally Posted by Legate

Actually, I also - although I see I already meddled in that - don't see a point in such discussions, respectively: don't see a point in their subject. What people say, and that they interact and actually say something, is another thing and it's good. But otherwise, I think that simply everyone should do what he thinks is the best and then something will happen.

I don't understand this at all! It seems vaguely child-like to me, which isn't like Legate at all. Anyway, is still suspicious of Greenie, Volo, and Gwath.

#104 - Mentions Lommy. Suspicious of her for pointing out a difference in Sally's normal posting style.

#119 - Begins to get irritated (one could say, defensive, but he looks irritated to me) with Mac's continual suspicion regarding Phantom.

#131 - Has finally had enough of Mac and drops the subject completely.

#136 - Elaborates on his suspicion of Volo for Volo's benefit.

#171 - ...I really don't know what to make of this post. Legate, help me out?

#181 - finds McCaber's vote so soon after Phantom's suspicion of her to be suspicious.

#199 - Finds Lommy's lack of a personal opinion to be suspicious. Would rather not see Nerwen or Phantom lynched. Thinks Agan a possible EW.

#214 - Doesn't want to vote for anyone voted for thus far. Doesn't like metagame.

#221 - Begins to be wishy-washy in who he wants to vote for, with lots of ellipses. Can't decide between Agan and Nerwen. Says he will vote for Agan, implying he wants her to be lynched, but says he'd be comfortable with Nerwen being lynched.

#224 - Reiterates. Implies, now, that he doesn't want Agan lynched. Very suspicious.

#229 - Finally votes Aganzir, fobbing the decision off on others.

#233 - Replies to Shasta. Implies now that he didn't want to vote for Nerwen or Agan!

#236 - Replies to Brinn. Says he doesn't want to waste his vote at such a time, but effectively does by his own admission earlier (throwing the decision to the people who haven't voted). Really not liking Legate's vote at all.

Legate - Day 2

#332 - Replies to Phantom; thinks he could have been scried for a wolf.

A quote of Aganzir's that I hadn't seen until now, that sums up what I was thinking about Legate's vote perfectly:

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Legate & yesterday's voting. If that wasn't suspicious, nothing is.

"I want to jump the bandwagon as there's even a chance she'd be lynched (and she suspects me) and now I must explain it to everybody so as not to look I was indeed just jumping in the bandwagon!"

(Legate basically dismisses this.) Becomes very... hyper? jumpy? about Phantom. Says he is more suspicious of Phantom today. Offers the possibility that the wolves are roleplaying their kills. Wow, this is an extremely long post... okay. Thinks Phantom could be the EW. Wonders if Volo had the chance to dream. Thinks it's possible Roa is evil and Phantom gifted. The requisite "But..." line follows. Thinks Roa to be genuine, but another "but..." line rears its ugly head. Agrees with Lhuna. Another "But..." line. Suspicious of Sally's excuse for voting Phantom. Wonders why Durelin states the obvious. Exhorts people to post shorter posts ( ). Answers Brinniel's question about a submarine. Doesn't like Brinniel's reaction to Volo; thinks it ungenuine. Dismisses Shasta's theory completely (there's my vanity kicking in... ) States the obvious in noting that Roa goes after Phantom. Hyper Legate again, in Ka's direction this time. Thinks Ka's backing of Celuien looks odd. Is sick and tired of Phantom's constant chatter. Notes for Cailin that Volo wouldn't have had a dream and thus would have given no signs. Lots of broken up smileys. Becomes EXTREMELY hyper because there's another page to read. (Whew, finally done. Short posts, eh Legate?)

#334 - *sigh* Agrees with Brinniel that Roa is possibly focusing too much on Phantom, but thinks her suspicious anyway. Thinks Eonwe's style to be normal, but other things about him odd. (More wishy-washyness?) Thinks Brinniel is too nice to be anything other than evil. Complains about Phantom some more.

#335 - Notes that he'll be gone for a bit today.

#340 - Analyzes Brinniel. Much like I'm doing to him now. Some of his suspicion of her is alleviated.

#341 - Asks Brinn to elaborate on the Nerwen voters. Wants to see more of Greenie. (Back off, whippersnapper!)

Legate seems pretty bad to me as well. There are a few things (most notably his vote yesterday) that just don't speak of innocence. In fact, I'd be comfortable voting either him or Mac today.

[the phantom]

Roa for tp
Lhuna for Mac
Nilp for McCaber
Gwath for Lal

Originally Posted by morm

I still can't shake the feeling I've got about Brinniel and will likely revote for her today.

People keep bringing up Brin, but every time I reread her stuff she moves lower down my list. morm, laddie- if you're feeling inclined to trust me today, I'd let her be. She's one of the few I have a fairly firm opinion on.

Originally Posted by Rikae

YesterDay I thought he was just trying to stir the pot and get people talking, a day 1 technique I approve of

Well good.

Originally Posted by EDIT: Rikae

but toDay he is defensive and overly focused on Roa's attacks

That's not how I started the day, nor is it how I planned on spending the day. She kind of forced my hand with her million word post featuring bunches of misinterpreted quotes from me. I kind of had to respond to it. Believe me, I think the entire affair is at best a pointless distraction.

I've liked the way Kath has been talking today.

I like Shasta less with every posting he makes.

I'm still flip-floppy on Legate.

[Rikae]

Hey! I'm not Roa. (Sheesh, we aren't even twins... )

[Aganzir]

Ok, so I'm back, much later than I expected to be but anyway. And eeks, both my poor mummy and darling boyfriend already have a vote!

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

And who would think of the phantom more than anyone?

the phantom.

I so called it.

Ah, but about whom would the GW think more than anyone? The EW.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

The Lhuna thing I could have passed, but consider this one: Now what the heck is this about? "If you go on suspecting me, I'll have you lynched even though I think you are innocent!" ?

I think Greenie is being overreactive here. She takes a minor quote, misinterprets it and then makes a big fuss about it. I've seen it before that someone votes for a person just out of personal annoyance, and besides you're doing it yourself now (well not voting but) - phantom irritates you and therefore you behave like you were suspecting him, which may eventually lead to voting.
The way Greenie starts suspecting tp looks a bit forced to me, yet is less suspicious than the fact that she's still seemingly indecisive about people. It reminds me of a wolf who doesn't know her fellows.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Huh, why me? And you are talking about Legate, right?

Sorry if I was unclear (and I indeed was), I was in a hurry.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

And my dear brother Legate...voting for Aganzir but not wanting her lynched is very odd. And his explanation for it confused me even more. (Hmm...maybe it's because old love never dies ) But as suspicious as it is...I wonder if it's too suspicious. I mean, would a wolf actually act in such a way? Only if the EW told him to...

I think Legate's wavering with his vote was suspicious, but I was already suspicious of him. You on the other hand found his vote strange yesterday, yet today you raised the issue just a bit and immediately downplayed the possibility that his vote was wolfish.
ALSO... Legate suspected Brinn, analysed her and found her more innocent-looking. I find this interesting, and I'll certainly go through their posts when I have time.

Originally Posted by Nilpaurion Felagund

So I've looked at the posts of the NIGHT's victim, checked whom they suspected, decided that they are probably innocent.

Well I don't know. In the first game ever I played I learned the golden rule of being a hunter (thanks Nogrod ): "the hunter cannot be completely honest of his suspicions". So if the hunter does his job well, the wolves cannot be sure who his real main suspects are when they attack him.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I also noticed that Aganzir was very laid back about Lommy's accusations until rather late in the Day. It gives me a little bit of the feeling of a baddie trying to not put any unnecessary spotlight onto the points others give against her.

Frankly, I got annoyed with her later in the day. It's ok if someone just says I don't sit right with them, but I disliked the way she started to use her RL knowledge of me as a basis for accusations (see, now everyone for instance thinks that I'd love to be the EW which is something she invented herself, and besides she was wrong). And thus far she has always said she can't really read me (which, I think, is not something every player here knows), and now all of a sudden she claims to be the one who can figure me out the best (yes, she said she usually can't, but the way she behaves suggests completely the opposite).
I think if she's innocent she should just know better.

Originally Posted by THE Ka

I was a protector, and unfortunately a very obvious one not only to wolves, but others spotted as well.

Maybe because you kept dropping ranger hints all the time since you wanted to have fun? And we never figured out whether you were the cobbler or the ranger, and I actually thought the former.
Ok, that for nostalgia.

Originally Posted by Ka

then again, Agan have you been an ordo before? I don’t think in any WW we’ve played together.

Yes. But not before in any game I've played with you.

Since two of my main suspects have already been analysed while I was gone, I'll take a look at Lommy soon.

Ha, and I just noticed a quote by Gwath:

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

sally has ceased behaving oddly, so I can't justify voting against her. Darn.

This reminds me of the wolfish Gwath of some game who asked a player why he voted for Menel and told to give a reason so that he could vote for him, too.
Gwath, do you honestly think sallywolf couldn't change her playing style back to normal once that she's been spotted? I'll interpret your words again: "I don't really care whom I vote, sally's not my fellow/she's on the innocent list the EW gave/whatever, but now I don't have a reason to vote for her anymore as she's back to normal!"

Originally Posted by Legate

Speaking of that... don't you think someone may be just "roleplaying"?

I didn't even notice this before reading Shasta's analysis. Quite honestly, I think it has about the same amount of sense as (wolfish) me suggesting the wolves killed Valier because of her hunches instead of suspecting her to be the seer.

Originally Posted by Legate

Of course, mum, what do you think I am trying to do... *takes a sheep from the herd* I hope the Wolves haven't read Odyssey...

:-DDD
I must laugh at this a bit since you remind me so much of a recent RPG character of mine.

Originally Posted by Shasta

Legate seems pretty bad to me as well. There are a few things (most notably his vote yesterday) that just don't speak of innocence. In fact, I'd be comfortable voting either him or Mac today.

I'd be interested to know what those a few things are.

edit: xed since phantom's #378

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I'd be interested to know what those a few things are.

1. He seemed very agreeable, more of a "go-with-the-flow" type, early on (post #67 - I didn't write about every single subject in that post because it would have taken ages, it was gigantic!)

2. Post #71 - Early on, Phantom was gaining votes more than anyone else. Legate seemed to be encouraging Sally to vote for Phantom, while being able himself to stay away.

3. #95 - his first bit of wishy-washyness regarding Nerwen.

4. His flipfloppy vote. First, can't decide between Agan or Nerwen (#221). Votes Agan, but hopes she's not lynched (#229). Replies to Shasta, saying he didn't want to vote Nerwen or Agan (#233). Gives a contradictory reason for his vote (#236).

5. #332 - Comes across as flipfloppy regarding Phantom; first thinks he could be the EW, then thinks he's gifted, leaving himself open to change that opinion.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I think Legate's wavering with his vote was suspicious, but I was already suspicious of him. You on the other hand found his vote strange yesterday, yet today you raised the issue just a bit and immediately downplayed the possibility that his vote was wolfish.
ALSO... Legate suspected Brinn, analysed her and found her more innocent-looking. I find this interesting, and I'll certainly go through their posts when I have time.

Good call. I don't think we should rule out the possibility that at least two wolves know each other, after all, and they might even have stumbled into being less cautions with their connections because everyone assumed they didn't.

I am leaning most toward voting for tp or Legate at the moment.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Hey! I'm not Roa.

Ha ha ha! Sorry. I guess it's because both of your names start with "R". I shall go back and edit the mistake.

All right, here's where I stand right now on whether or not I would mind lynching people.

I do not want to lynch these people because I find them innocent, or I think I will be able to get a read on them, or because I'd rather watch them for now.

Green
Nilp
Izzy
Eonwe
Kath
Sally
Mac
Rikae
tp
Di
Cailin
Lhuna
Brin
Legate
Lal
morm
Cel

I would be willing to accept the lynching of the following, either because I suspect them, because I don't have an opinion on them, or because I think their death might tell us something.

Shasta
Lommy
Dur
Roa
Agan
Ka
Gwath
McCaber

[Rikae]

What is it you find suspicious about Shasta? Just curious...

[Rikae]

To add something to the above, I didn't like his analysis of Mac much, but then, I always think I understand my husband better than anybody else does - I did think he had some good points about Legate, though that analysis also seemed a bit... skewed? Not sure.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Shasta

Originally Posted by Legate
Nerwen's posting, especially her post #82 actually looks sensible, and innocentish. However, I can as well imagine her evilly grinning behind this innocent mask. But that's just the tiny bit of feeling.

is reminiscent of the quote I posted of Mac's earlier; wishy washy. "However", "but".

This - well, I think we all get hunches, but Legate is wording it rather cautiously (only a tiny bit of feeling), and cautious people set off my alarm bells.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Rikae

What is it you find suspicious about Shasta? Just curious...

I'm kinda curious too, Phantom, considering you haven't had a word to say about me till now.

[McCaber]

Finally a chance to read and post. This is an epic game if there ever was one. First thing: put me down with the people wanting tp and Roa to sort things out by themselves.

Now Legate I don't like, nor Cailin. But I have to think before I vote, or I might as well lynch myself.

EDIT: crossed with Di and Durelin